4 Armed Robbers Met with Gunfire by Phoenix Homeowner

[timjake]

The linked article has a 38 second video showing 4 armed men breaking down the door of a residence, and immediately met with gunfire. The video then shows them running away, two to a car, the other two on foot.

Phoenix homeowner fires multiple shots at four armed robbers, home security footage shows | Fox News

"The suspects were still on the loose as of Friday afternoon and it is unclear if any of them were struck by gunfire, a Phoenix police spokesperson told Fox News."

---

At least there's no question about what happened since it's all on video.

[weatherby]

Poor mark men's ship
Really wish he was a better shot...

[quikdraw67]

More range time is in order.

A better headline would be

"4 armed would be intruders were shot dead by the homeowner"

Practice makes perfect

[Exmilcop]

Ask any ex cop or soldier. Targets are great practice but when real bullets start flying and the adrenaline rush is flooding your system, it ain't easy to be dead-eye dick.

[steelslaver]

I am just the home owner is OK. Putting the hurt on the bad guys comes in a distant second after you and yours are OK

[llowry61]

I am glad to see those losers scatter like cockroaches when someone stands up for themselves. A real bunch of bad***es aren't they? As soon as someone fights fire with fire they show exactly what they are, cowardly thugs looking to prey on people who can't, won't or don't know how to defend themselves.

Clearly these guys never expected this or they wouldn't have tried it in the first place.

Bet they think twice next time.

[Muss Muggins]

I'd like to know why this particular home/homeowner was targeted. That's the great unknown. Sometimes, it's random. More often, it's not . . .

[smoothshooter]

Originally Posted by llowry61

I am glad to see those losers scatter like cockroaches when someone stands up for themselves. A real bunch of bad***es aren't they? As soon as someone fights fire with fire they show exactly what they are, cowardly thugs looking to prey on people who can't, won't or don't know how to defend themselves.

Clearly these guys never expected this or they wouldn't have tried it in the first place.

Bet they think twice next time.

Hope they don’t come back and with more help and nail the guy outside of his house.

[sigp220.45]

Originally Posted by Muss Muggins

I'd like to know why this particular home/homeowner was targeted. That's the great unknown. Sometimes, it's random. More often, it's not . . .

My thought, too. Somebody didn’t pay their bill………

[steelslaver]

Bugs me how some immediately suspect the home owner of something. Hope you are never a victim of a robbery and have a prosecutor with your own views. Maybe he was a bar owner of a busy bar, or someone who was thought to be holding some gold or jewels. Innocent people get robbed every day. Sure he could have been dirty. But, how about some benefit of doubt and some innocent until proven guilty.

Even more interesting is that it is usually the same type who think that way are also often those who get all up in indignant when the shoe is on the other foot and people suspect that LEOs went to far.

It is a two way street.

[Charlie Foxtrott]

Originally Posted by llowry61

I am glad to see those losers scatter like cockroaches when someone stands up for themselves. A real bunch of bad***es aren't they? As soon as someone fights fire with fire they show exactly what they are, cowardly thugs looking to prey on people who can't, won't or don't know how to defend themselves.

Clearly these guys never expected this or they wouldn't have tried it in the first place.

Bet they think twice next time.

They just do not think.

[petepeterson]

Originally Posted by steelslaver

But, how about some benefit of doubt and some innocent until proven guilty.

I don't think that's how it works anymore. It was a good idea at the time, though.

[Muss Muggins]

Originally Posted by steelslaver

Bugs me how some immediately suspect the home owner of something. . .

I didn't say I suspect him of anything. I just mentioned these things are rarely random, and I'd like to know the reason. If four armed gunmen charge my home, it most likely won't be random, it will be targeted. And I'll know the reason . . .

[Llance]

Originally Posted by Exmilcop

Ask any ex cop or soldier. Targets are great practice but when real bullets start flying and the adrenaline rush is flooding your system, it ain't easy to be dead-eye dick.

Don't know if I've entrusted this story here before: Back when I bought my first S&W revolver I visited my LGS/cop shop and heard this story.

It seems an FBI agent was at a house when the occupant took exception to being visited by the "feds". A fire fight ensued and twelve rounds were exchanged leaving neither man injured. All rounds were in the door jamb or otherwise expended in a harmless fashion. Backup provided the fire fights end, with the occupant taking the fall.

The narrator was not the officer involved but was a part of the backup contingent so this was a first person account. I can well believe such would happen given how excited I was when I received my wound, and it wasn't even a firefight.

[kbm6893]

Originally Posted by Muss Muggins

I'd like to know why this particular home/homeowner was targeted. That's the great unknown. Sometimes, it's random. More often, it's not . . .

Indeed. Wonder if the homeowner getting killed would have been any great loss to society. 4AM and he’s at the ready to fire the second the door gets kicked in? No being rousted out of a dead sleep? The thugs weren’t at the door that long that even a motion alert would normally give a sleeping person time to wake, assess, get his weapon, and fire it in seconds.

I don’t blindly cheer every defensive use of force. If the victim is in the game then he’s no victim.

[jimmyj]

It appears that two of the B.G. thought that a getaway car was too slow and considered that their feets were faster.

[ericrlarson]

Originally Posted by steelslaver

Bugs me how some immediately suspect the home owner of something. Hope you are never a victim of a robbery and have a prosecutor with your own views. Maybe he was a bar owner of a busy bar, or someone who was thought to be holding some gold or jewels. Innocent people get robbed every day. Sure he could have been dirty. But, how about some benefit of doubt and some innocent until proven guilty.

Even more interesting is that it is usually the same type who think that way are also often those who get all up in indignant when the shoe is on the other foot and people suspect that LEOs went to far.

It is a two way street.

I don’t think anyone in this post said the home owner was “dirty”. It’s a fact that some burglars know the victims or happen you know what they want from inside.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[stansdds]

I don't know the whole story and it is unlikely than any of us do. Hopefully, the security camera footage is sufficient for the police to track down at least one of the would-be invaders. Get one and he may want to make a deal, giving up his accomplices and tell the whole story of what motivated them to attempt burglary on this particular residence.

[BE Mike]

Spray and pray! So many gun owners won't take the time to learn how to shoot. Some are as much a danger to themselves as others. Glad that this scared away the intruders, but if there is a next time, the victim might not be so lucky and actually need to make hits.

[mikerjf]

<<I don't know the whole story and it is unlikely than any of us do.>>

This applies to almost everything. Rule 1 of being smart is knowing what you don't know.

Rule 2 is probably something like "Don't believe your tv".

[WR Moore]

Reasonably locally, we had at least one home invasion where the aggressors (who got caught eventually) "thought" the folks in residence had money. The old rule about assume was in play.

I believe it was Jeff Cooper who wrote about a student who, while "under the weather" was jumped by multiple assailants as he got out of his car. Being a good student, he produced his 1911 and opened fire, emptying 3 mags. LLEA found no bodies, blood trails or, apparently, physical damage to anything important. A successful defense-if it wasn't an illusion-but certainly not a shining example of marksmanship.

[VictorLouis]

Well worth the 2.5mins to watch, all........

YouTube

[Echo40]

Clearly he must have missed, otherwise there would be blood at the scene and/or leading away from it.

Just goes to show you that sometimes just having a gun is enough, as nobody wants to get shot.
Well, except for the Crackerjack Boys, who as we all know absolutely love being shot and run gleefully headlong into gunfire because their otherwise crippling addiction/chemical dependency to caramel corn has granted the superhuman strength and endurance.

[adwjc]

I agree with some of the posters who think the victim was "in the game" and therefor not an innocent victim, however. I can relate an actual experience that occurred at my home in JCNJ in 2000.

Thankfully, my family and I were away for the weekend, as was my young upstairs tenant.
At 3:45 AM, four thugs stepped up onto my porch and started to try and kick in my outer front door, this woke a neighbor across the street who called 911 and continued to watch from the darkness of her second floor front bedroom.

She related that the first four couldn't kick the door in (no surprise- reinforced steel door in a reinforced frame).They called down to a bigger thug who was among their backup/lookouts on the sidewalk.
the big dude started kick at the center of the door, and eventually sprung it out of shape and the locked were defeated. Alarm activated, and police on the way from the neighbor's call.

They got inside and started on the inner door, solid core wood, not as strong as the outer door, got into my apartment and heard the responding police units. They got as far as a closet in one spare bedroom and grabbed a lockbox on the floor that contained several boxes of ammo, this was when they fled.

Overall we didn't lose much in the line of property, but this was the first time we had been victimized in a forceful burglary.

I was "not in the game" but we surmise they thought they might get some firearms, probably knowing we weren't home

[Beemerguy53]

This is why I do my best to keep a low profile. I don't have any NRA or gun-related symbols on my car; I don't post photos of my firearms on social media; I don't talk to co-workers or neighbors or casual friends about what I own, or what's in my home, or how much money I make, etc.

There are a lot of sociopaths in our society, always looking for an easy score...the less you let them know about yourself, the safer you are.

[charlie sherrill]

I would start with the light skinned guy (is he caucasian?) and his very identifiable tattoo and work from there. This one is solvable and probably will be soon. Without more info I wouldn't say the victim is a player in this game, but many are. The perps apparently thought the victim had some they wanted or maybe a little retribution involved. They didn't hang around long when it got noisy. Maybe one of them left enough blood to check the DNA database. I agree with Beamerguy, don't make yourself a target. I don't have stickers or anything else on my vehicles that identifies me as a gun owner. I do have a sign posted in my yard warning of a security system and if you get close to my door you'll see a small sticker that says "If You Come Through This Door You Will Be Killed". Same reasoning on concealed carry. Lot's of folks are pushing open carry and if that's your thing I have no problem with it. Personally I prefer to carry concealed, which I do everywhere I go, as I feel open carry might just make you the first target, or could target you because someone wants your gun. My main home defense weapon is a 12 gauge pump with seven rounds of #4 buckshot. If someone hears that first round being jacked into the barrel that is the first and only warning. I wonder how the guy/victim in the video would have made out had he been using a shotgun?

[Doug M.]

Is it possible that this was a random attack? Yes. Is is likely? No. Very few of these are. Most are targeted. It is entirely possible that the targeting was flawed (bad/out of date info, wrong house, whatever), but that does not make it a random attack.

When you have someone like Muss raise that question, it is not a malice based question - it is based on the realities taught by 20, 30, 40 years working in the system. We have seen stuff that ordinary decent people think is part of a movie - only the odd stuff and lows of human behavior are likely much worse than any movie or TV show.

Consider this: how many of you would expect to be a target, such that you are fully functional and ready to fight at 0400? Not MIGHT BE - EXPECT to be.

[steelslaver]

Originally Posted by ericrlarson

I don’t think anyone in this post said the home owner was “dirty”. It’s a fact that some burglars know the victims or happen you know what they want from inside.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I beg to differ


Quote:
Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
I'd like to know why this particular home/homeowner was targeted. That's the great unknown. Sometimes, it's random. More often, it's not . . .


My thought, too. Somebody didn’t pay their bill………

I do not believe any bill collectors come around packing guns at 4am. The random part can mean about anything. Hard to brush of the bill collector statement though.

Then we have another LEO who had kind of a personal experience with something similar. who is just as suspicious. Ya, right, but maybe he is just acting all innocent and those guys busted in because he was in the game on the side. MY point is that thought is every bit as valid as the other suspicions.

Then there is this statement "Indeed. Wonder if the homeowner getting killed would have been any great loss to society. 4AM and he’s at the ready to fire the second the door gets kicked in? No being rousted out of a dead sleep? "

I hear "lets wait for the facts" all the time. I also see these kind of assumptions all the time. Sometimes it is all about who is wearing which shoe.



I got why you would be suspicious but, where is the wait for some facts before you start making statements.

Best not give a LEO the time of day. He might suspect you are "in the game" because you know something. He will of course suspect you for being silent to. Point being after years of experience cops suspect everyone.

[steelslaver]

Originally Posted by Doug M.

Is it possible that this was a random attack? Yes. Is is likely? No. Very few of these are. Most are targeted. It is entirely possible that the targeting was flawed (bad/out of date info, wrong house, whatever), but that does not make it a random attack.

When you have someone like Muss raise that question, it is not a malice based question - it is based on the realities taught by 20, 30, 40 years working in the system. We have seen stuff that ordinary decent people think is part of a movie - only the odd stuff and lows of human behavior are likely much worse than any movie or TV show.

Consider this: how many of you would expect to be a target, such that you are fully functional and ready to fight at 0400? Not MIGHT BE - EXPECT to be.

Years ago used to close up a bar a couple nights a week. I would leave the bar with a fair amount of cash, checks etc. Get home around 3am and I know plenty of bar owners who went home in the early am with a wad of cash and several who kept large amounts at home in a safe. All of em had guns and would have probably been pretty ready around 4am. Bar owners, pawn shop operators, liquor store operators all often have cash and people know it. Now days with camera and proximity alarms being ready when they hit the door would be way easier.

[Muss Muggins]

Originally Posted by steelslaver

I beg to differ


Quote:
Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
I'd like to know why this particular home/homeowner was targeted. That's the great unknown. Sometimes, it's random. More often, it's not . . .


My thought, too. Somebody didn’t pay their bill………

I do not believe any bill collectors come around packing guns at 4am. The random part can mean about anything. Hard to brush of the bill collector statement though.

Couple things. First, explain how my post states or claims that the resident was dirty. It doesn’t.

Second. I didn’t make the bill collector statement, my retired FBI friend did, but I agree with it. I’ve been known to kick a door at 4 am to collect a surety, which is strictly a financial agreement that the surety has failed to live up to. And I have a gun . . .

All I’ve done is post a plausible anecdote similar to your bar story. That chip on your shoulder needs to come off . . .

[Muss Muggins]

So, you agree that this could be a targeted attack, right?

Originally Posted by steelslaver

Years ago used to close up a bar a couple nights a week. I would leave the bar with a fair amount of cash, checks etc. Get home around 3am and I know plenty of bar owners who went home in the early am with a wad of cash and several who kept large amounts at home in a safe. All of em had guns and would have probably been pretty ready around 4am. Bar owners, pawn shop operators, liquor store operators all often have cash and people know it. Now days with camera and proximity alarms being ready when they hit the door would be way easier.

[Oracle]

If none were hit hopefully they experienced soiled knickers.

[steelslaver]

Originally Posted by Muss Muggins

Couple things. First, explain how my post states or claims that the resident was dirty. It doesn’t.

Second. I didn’t make the bill collector statement, my retired FBI friend did, but I agree with it. I’ve been known to kick a door at 4 am to collect a surety, which is strictly a financial agreement that the surety has failed to live up to. And I have a gun . . .

All I’ve done is post a plausible anecdote similar to your bar story. That chip on your shoulder needs to come off . . .

Never said your post did that. Note my statement The random part can mean about anything. I could jump to conclusions, like some, but I am sure your thoughts were as pure as new snow in the Rockies I am sure you can look me in the eye and assure me of that, so you got the benefit of some doubt.

The part "My thought, too. Somebody didn’t pay their bill………" was posted in response to your post and I used both to keep context. Sorry that you felt it was aimed at you.

I hope that when you kick doors down at 4 am to get bail jumpers you are announcing yourself. I will say its a bit of a stretch comparing pick up bail jumpers to a normal bill collector.

On the target attack, yes, I agree. I doubt they just drove down the street and said OK that one. Why that target IS ANYBODIES GUESS. I don't have any other facts to go on. Do you? Far all we know the picked his house cause he had a Vette. If you got all the meth head and other types of criminal logic completely figured out your one in a billion. I do find it interesting the home owner seems to have been way ready, but just how positive is that anyway?. Maybe they cruised the street or he saw them follow him. I know you don't believe that article has the whole story.

[Beemerguy53]

Originally Posted by Doug M.

...Consider this: how many of you would expect to be a target, such that you are fully functional and ready to fight at 0400? Not MIGHT BE - EXPECT to be.

Respectfully, sir, that might not be what happened at all.

Those doorbell cameras have significant range. They start recording, and can alert you, long before anyone gets to your door. We've all seen news reports where vehicles used in crimes have been identified because they drove by a neighbor's video camera.

Last February, two FBI Agents from the Miami Field Office where shot and killed by a suspect who saw them approaching his house on his video doorbell, and was waiting for them, rifle in hand, when they got up to the door.

Perhaps the homeowner in Phoenix was similarly alerted. I'm not saying that other theories aren't plausible...just that none of us knows the whole story yet.

How Far Can A Doorbell Camera See? – Home Security tips, tricks, and advice to keep your home safe.

[LDM]

Many of these punks roam the streets looking for targets of opportunity. Something about the looks of the house must have triggered the easy prey signal. Bad judgement on their part.

[riverrat38]

From post 11: "how about some benefit of doubt and some innocent until proven guilty."

The concept of innocent until proven guilty is a legal one, applicable to a court room, not internet chatter. We never have to prove anything!

73,
Rick

[Smoke]

Originally Posted by steelslaver

Point being after years of EXPERIENCE cops suspect everyone.

I mean, there's a reason for that....

[steelslaver]

Originally Posted by Smoke

I mean, there's a reason for that....

To a hammer everything is a nail? The protect and serve breaks down when you believe everyone is guilty. In that case who there to protect? The criminals from each other? Glad I live a long way from that world.

[Muss Muggins]

Originally Posted by steelslaver

. . . I know you don't believe that article has the whole story.

It would be my fervent hope that nobody believes that to be so . . .

[Smoke]

Originally Posted by steelslaver

To a hammer everything is a nail? The protect and serve breaks down when you believe everyone is guilty. In that case who there to protect? The criminals from each other? Glad I live a long way from that world.

I'm not ot a cop. I've never been a cop. I don't want to be a cop. I've never equated my former job with being a cop.

But I have had a somewhat similar for many many years. It's been my experience that human behavior breaks down into fairly predictable patterns. If a happens B is usually the cause.

It's a statistical fact that the majority of home invasions are targeted.

Like it or not a lot of home invasions are drug dealers who are known to have a lot of cash on hand or a lot of product that's easy to sell. Don't take my word for it research it for yourself

[steelslaver]

So if your home is invaded you will be ok with the investigators thinking it was because your dirty? If most of the people out after 2 am are up to no good, your fine with being pulled over
for something minor and spending time and answering guestions about your business and being searched, hey most people at that time are dirty. I am not.

Like I said, I am glad I don't live in that world anymore. Our crime of the week was some minors having a party

[kbm6893]

Originally Posted by steelslaver

So if your home is invaded you will be ok with the investigators thinking it was because your dirty? If most of the people out after 2 am are up to no good, your fine with being pulled over
for something minor and spending time and answering guestions about your business and being searched, hey most people at that time are dirty. I am not.

Like I said, I am glad I don't live in that world anymore. Our crime of the week was some minors having a party

I will be ok with investigators thinking whatever they want. Let them do their job and go where the evidence leads them. If a woman is murdered, the husband or boyfriend is always a suspect until they can rule them out. The cops will look into financial situations, ask neighbors if they saw any arguing, look into if there was infidelity going on. Doesn’t mean they believe the guy is guilty, it’s just a reasonable place to start an investigation.

You mention people out after 2 being up to no good. Sorry if that offends you but it is frequently the case. So they get stopped and questioned. Boo hoo. Happened to me many times. Never been searched. Never been a reason to.

But one of the best collars I ever made closed out about 6 open robbery cases. Mutt who looked like he was up to no good gets in a cab. There had been a rash of cab robberies at the time. We hit the lights to pull the cab over for a license check. Passenger glances back and slightly bends over. That’s called a furtive movement, and we took him out of the car and searched him. That’s called a Terry Stop from Terry vs. Ohio. No gun on him but found a loaded gun under the seat. Make the collar and stop that robbery and closed out the other open ones.

We all make assumptions. You do too. If you see a scantily clad woman walking back and forth as car go by, you would assume she’s a prostitute. But maybe she’s just waiting for a ride. If you see somebody looking into car windows, you would assume he’s up to no good, but maybe he’s just looking at the interiors of cars he’s thinking of buying.

Maybe the victim in this video is a perfectly legal person. But being awake and clearly ready to repel 4 armed invaders at 4 AM is suspicious as hell to me, and to most people, and I’m sure the cops as well. They’ll pursue that angle and if it’s nothing, they’ll move on.

[kbm6893]

Originally Posted by Beemerguy53

Respectfully, sir, that might not be what happened at all.

Those doorbell cameras have significant range. They start recording, and can alert you, long before anyone gets to your door. We've all seen news reports where vehicles used in crimes have been identified because they drove by a neighbor's video camera.

Last February, two FBI Agents from the Miami Field Office where shot and killed by a suspect who saw them approaching his house on his video doorbell, and was waiting for them, rifle in hand, when they got up to the door.

Perhaps the homeowner in Phoenix was similarly alerted. I'm not saying that other theories aren't plausible...just that none of us knows the whole story yet.

How Far Can A Doorbell Camera See? – Home Security tips, tricks, and advice to keep your home safe.

I’ve got a Ring doorbell and a Ring floodlight cam. They do have great range. I can see the street over 100 feet away with my doorbell. I can set it to chime when somebody approaches but it would be chiming all day as cars drive by. I have to play around with it and see if I can continue to record to the street but only chime when somebody approaches the steps.

[Muss Muggins]

Originally Posted by kbm6893

I’ve got a Ring doorbell and a Ring floodlight cam. They do have great range. I can see the street over 100 feet away with my doorbell. I can set it to chime when somebody approaches but it would be chiming all day as cars drive by. I have to play around with it and see if I can continue to record to the street but only chime when somebody approaches the steps.

I have the same problem with my doorbell and other cameras. Can't find the sweet spot between no alerts and alerting on birds . . .

[kbm6893]

Originally Posted by Muss Muggins

I have the same problem with my doorbell and other cameras. Can't find the sweet spot between no alerts and alerting on birds . . .

You can change the sensitivity on the Ring, but I want to keep the sensitivity to record while only alert if whatever it is comes onto my steps. I have deer where I live so when I check the video in the morning it’s like a Bambi convention out there. I would like an alert if something climbs the steps.

[teletech]

Good to know that should I ever be called upon to defend myself that folks on the forum here will, without knowing me at all, cast aspersions on my marksmanship, my character, and what I did to "deserve" to get my door kicked-in.
There's a lot of baseless speculation is all I'm saying and lacking further details from the police, the defender, or attackers, I think it's important to not jump to conclusions apart from if somebody kicks in my door I'm going to do what I have to do and I support other's right to do the same.

[Greyman50]

Some discussion. My Dad always used to say,” nothing good happens after midnight”, he was so right. Burglar bomb would take care of any door kick ins, at least at my place.

[Smoke]

Originally Posted by steelslaver

So if your home is invaded

The odds of my being selected as a home invasion target are almost nil. I don't associate with known criminals. I don't work in an all cash business. I don't have a lot of visible bling. I don't flaunt my "wealth" (such as it is). I'm not an illegal alien (or member of other subset that's unlikely to use a bank.

Originally Posted by steelslaver

your ok with the investigators thinking it was because your dirty?

They can think whatever they want. It will take them about five minutes to figure I'm not.

Originally Posted by steelslaver

If most of the people out after 2 am are up to no good

I worked nights too long for that to work on me. It's been my direct personal experience that most of the people who are out after 2AM ARE up to no good.

Originally Posted by steelslaver

your fine with being pulled over
for something minor and spending time and answering guestions about your business and being searched

I haven't been pulled over for anything for going on 13 or 14 years.

Originally Posted by steelslaver

hey most people at that time are dirty.

Yes they are.

Originally Posted by steelslaver

Like I said, I am glad I don't live in that world anymore.

You do live in that world, you just don't know it.

[steelslaver]

I do not live in that world. Like I said the police blotter this week showed some minors getting caught having a party, the week before some kid shoved a grocery cart onto the street. I was just gone for a week, my shop was not locked, the 3 cars I left all had the keys in them. I did lock the doors to the house and have cameras. But, most of the time when we are out and about in town the house is left unlocked too. I got stopped here once about 5 years ago at about 4am on my way to the store to get smokes when I still smoked. Car headlights come on when you start it but one is way dim unless you hit switch. Anyway he told me about my light and away I went, didn't even check my paper. i also got stopped once because trailer lights were not working, checked my paper and away I went. My BIL is the mayor of the community 37 miles north of here they have about 600 people and zero law enforcement. NONE I can tell you how worried our sheriff dept is about the people here. I can and have went in there with my gun. Heck when I took the NRA handgun course about 6 years ago it was in the basement of the sheriffs office and everyone brought their guns used for the shooting portion. Nobody from the sheriffs dept even looked anyone over or came down. I can now wear my gun into the courthouse and go anywhere but the judge's chambers or the actual court room with it. NRA and gun stickers all over town. I see gun racks with guns in them and the windows down in the store parking lots. Cars idling away with nobody in them in the winter. Little kids walk to the swimming pool and stores alone. We did have a shooting here about 18 months ago. Guy shot another guy and fled, few towns down the line the cops took care of him, no need for a trial either. The murder before that was 9 years prior. We had one car stolen here last year.

Is this YOUR world? Thought not.

That world might come around here from time to time. I do not live in it though.

As far as my original statement. I can of course see how you would wonder about what was going on. I do find it disappointing that some members very first comments were about the home owner rather than the assailants. There was absolutely nothing in the article that cast any suspicion on home owner. Even if the guy was a crooked, HE WAS STILL THE VICTIM. I would think there would be much more interest in the attackers than him. I also feel very discouraged by the knowledge that lots of LEOs have the us vs them, suspect every one attitude and then wonder why many citizens are adopting the exact same us vs them attitude and are suspicious of the police. People treating you exactly like you treat them. Imagine that

[hkcavalier]

Threat stopped. It's not the homeowner's job to take criminals out of the gene pool.