Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-06-2015, 08:58 PM
Rastoff's Avatar
Rastoff Rastoff is offline
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: So Cal (Near Edwards AFB)
Posts: 11,815
Likes: 1,779
Liked 11,063 Times in 4,534 Posts
Default Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet

I teach CCW (carry concealed weapon) classes. It is my goal in these classes to help people learn the law and to shoot better in defensive situations. The law in CA doesn't require a shooting component to get a CCW license. However, my local sheriff likes to see it included in the class. To qualify for the shooting portion, a student must shoot 20 shots. They must all be within the silhouette of a B-27E target like this one:

This target is enormous at 2' wide by 3' tall.

The course of fire is:
  • 4 shots from 3 yards
  • 6 shots from 5 yards
  • 6 shots from 7 yards
  • 4 shots from 10 yards
All shots are fired with the shooters choice of grip and stance and start from the ready position (gun loaded, but not in holster). They are all untimed so, there is no need to hurry.

The goal here is to see that the students can handle their guns safely and at least get their bullets to go in the general direction of the target. I thought this would be a very easy test. After instructing many students, I can see that this is more difficult than I thought.

Because I thought it was easy, I had never actually shot the full course. I'm a huge believer that an instructor doesn't need to be the best, but should at least be able to do what he's asking the students to do. So, today I shot the test. Here is my result:

Notice that all the shots are in the orange. There is actually a tiny bit of orange between the right line and the right most hole. So, none of my shots are even touching the line. (It was sunny, but the wind was blowing about 5-10MPH from my back.)

So, I challenge everyone here to run the same course of fire. There is a lot of talk about, "I shoot well enough to defend myself." OK, I'm calling you out. Run this course of fire and post your pics here. Can you keep all 20 shots in the orange? I don't think you can! That's right, I said it, I DON'T THINK YOU CAN DO IT!!!

Here are the rules:
  • Any target may be used. To say you did as well as I did, all your shots must be within a 2"x3" oval. That's the size of the B-27E bullseye. So, either use a B-27E (regular B-27 would be fine) or provide proof of the size of your group.
  • The gun must be a gun used for self/home-defense.
  • The gun must be used in the same fashion it would be used for defense. So, if it is a DA/SA, the first shot at each yardage must be shot DA first and then SA for the rest. If it's a revolver it must be shot DA for every shot.
  • The course of fire is as above.
  • All shots are untimed.

This is done on your honor. If you say you did it, I'll believe you, but you must post a picture of your target. Let's keep this in the spirit of the forum. While I'm sure you can use this gun to defend yourself...

...it doesn't fit the spirit of the competition.

I used this one:


Well there it is.

I know you can't beat me, but can you even come close? PROVE IT!!! (There might be a prize involved. )
__________________
Freedom isn't free.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-06-2015, 09:12 PM
petepeterson's Avatar
petepeterson petepeterson is offline
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,051
Likes: 3,845
Liked 2,613 Times in 1,158 Posts
Default

Rumor has it that it may break the freezing mark here in PA for the 1st time since August. If it gets near 50 anytime soon, I'll play.
I have pistols that would fit the CCW/HD bill that I might be able to do it with, but I have my doubts about my 3914. Then again, the challenge isn't to win, but to learn.
__________________
Because of the metric system?
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #3  
Old 03-06-2015, 09:16 PM
snubbyfan's Avatar
snubbyfan snubbyfan is online now
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: WVa East Panhandle
Posts: 21,301
Likes: 57,064
Liked 57,234 Times in 13,038 Posts
Default

It's too cold to go to the range right now but I've done this;

With this;

From about this far away;

The head shots were done from the low ready position, bringing the gun up and shooting quickly. I also dumped one cylinder quickly in the red.
I can't help but wonder how I'd do if my hands worked right.
__________________
Keep on Chooglin'

Last edited by snubbyfan; 03-06-2015 at 09:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
  #4  
Old 03-06-2015, 09:23 PM
Rastoff's Avatar
Rastoff Rastoff is offline
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: So Cal (Near Edwards AFB)
Posts: 11,815
Likes: 1,779
Liked 11,063 Times in 4,534 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by petepeterson View Post
...I have my doubts about my 3914.
If this is a gun you use for defense, let's erase those doubts. Give it a shot (pun intended). Who knows, you just might do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by petepeterson View Post
Then again, the challenge isn't to win, but to learn.
Absolutely correct! You sir, understand.
__________________
Freedom isn't free.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-06-2015, 09:25 PM
Rastoff's Avatar
Rastoff Rastoff is offline
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: So Cal (Near Edwards AFB)
Posts: 11,815
Likes: 1,779
Liked 11,063 Times in 4,534 Posts
Default

Nice shooting Snubby!
__________________
Freedom isn't free.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #6  
Old 03-06-2015, 09:29 PM
schgsd schgsd is offline
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Waldo County
Posts: 496
Likes: 470
Liked 377 Times in 197 Posts
Default

Love it. Have been very jealous of the internet matches in one of the other sub forums. Great idea Rastoff.

We are in the record books for cold and snowfall depth at this point but by god I will find a way to do this!
__________________
~ From the Land of Lobstah ~
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #7  
Old 03-06-2015, 09:45 PM
ContinentalOp's Avatar
ContinentalOp ContinentalOp is online now
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,902
Likes: 2,970
Liked 2,006 Times in 807 Posts
Default

I like this exercise. I think I'm going to include this in my next range session. If I do I'll update with a picture.

In the meantime, I shot the following group at my last range session back in January. It was my 1st 5 shots of the day (and the 1st 5 shots in a long time...haven't been able to get to the range in quite some time, much longer than I'd care to admit).



I shot it using my 642 with 132gr PMC FMJ at ~10 yards, 2-handed, standing, no support. Carefully aimed each shot. Also, the gun is stock except for Spegel boot grips (i.e., no trigger work). It's the gun in my avatar.

The target is a BT-5 (my favorite, FYI) and the white rectangle is a 3"x5" adhesive mailing label.

Not great, but I don't think it's too bad, either. There's always room for improvement.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #8  
Old 03-06-2015, 10:44 PM
SMSgt SMSgt is offline
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,746
Likes: 661
Liked 1,661 Times in 832 Posts
Default

I don't care how well you shoot unless you're shooting at me. When you're 63 with two bad knees that will barely hold you up, hands that shake, and eyes that will never focus again, then we'll have a level playing field.

But I can still pass your test.
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #9  
Old 03-06-2015, 11:08 PM
bhayles's Avatar
bhayles bhayles is offline
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: N Georgia mountains
Posts: 806
Likes: 616
Liked 702 Times in 330 Posts
Default

I'll give it a try this next week using my EDC...a Glock gen 3 mod 22. I have my doubts about how I'll do until after my cataract surgery next month...

BTW...since you said self-home defense, someone who doesn't carry but has a SD/HD gun just to stay at home, someone COULD meet your standards with a red dot equipped AR ya know...
__________________
Bob | KM4DEO
Sport | Glock 22
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #10  
Old 03-07-2015, 12:41 AM
Rastoff's Avatar
Rastoff Rastoff is offline
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: So Cal (Near Edwards AFB)
Posts: 11,815
Likes: 1,779
Liked 11,063 Times in 4,534 Posts
Default

Well, yeah, I guess an AR with a 4x ACOG would technically meet the criteria. Of course it would violate the essence of the OP.

But hey, if you feel you need a rifle to best what I can do with a pistol, then OK.
__________________
Freedom isn't free.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #11  
Old 03-07-2015, 12:55 AM
Protected One's Avatar
Protected One Protected One is offline
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,541
Likes: 1,883
Liked 2,734 Times in 1,130 Posts
Default

OK, I'll play. Only difference is...this is from 7 yds and 10 yds (25 rounds each). The "fliers" are at 10 yd's.
Attached Thumbnails
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet-img_2402-jpg   Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet-img_2404-jpg  
__________________
Stay protected my friends.

Last edited by Protected One; 03-07-2015 at 01:08 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #12  
Old 03-07-2015, 01:11 AM
Rastoff's Avatar
Rastoff Rastoff is offline
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: So Cal (Near Edwards AFB)
Posts: 11,815
Likes: 1,779
Liked 11,063 Times in 4,534 Posts
Default

Nice shooting and the right gun too!
__________________
Freedom isn't free.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #13  
Old 03-07-2015, 06:45 AM
bhayles's Avatar
bhayles bhayles is offline
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: N Georgia mountains
Posts: 806
Likes: 616
Liked 702 Times in 330 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
...if you feel you need a rifle to best what I can do with a pistol, then OK.
LOL...I see what yer doin'...
__________________
Bob | KM4DEO
Sport | Glock 22
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-07-2015, 07:09 AM
David R's Avatar
David R David R is offline
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Swamps of WNY
Posts: 1,056
Likes: 94
Liked 833 Times in 426 Posts
Default

I take your challenge and I plan to beat you!
I may have to enter a few times.

David
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #15  
Old 03-07-2015, 07:55 AM
StrawHat StrawHat is offline
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 328
Likes: 406
Liked 318 Times in 119 Posts
Default

When it warms up a bit, I give it a shot. It'll be interesting to see my results.

Kevin
__________________
Unshared knowledge is wasted.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-07-2015, 08:44 AM
petepeterson's Avatar
petepeterson petepeterson is offline
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,051
Likes: 3,845
Liked 2,613 Times in 1,158 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
Nice shooting and the right gun too!
You guys ever consider a pistol from the 2nd half of the previous century???

Actually, that was one of the pistols I was referring to in my previous post.
__________________
Because of the metric system?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-07-2015, 09:37 AM
bearfoot bearfoot is offline
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 518
Likes: 1,618
Liked 285 Times in 151 Posts
Default

while cleaning the suv and front walk, 5 deg. & snowing wed., the wind was right and i could hear someone using the range. put a smile on my face, doesn't take much w/ cabin fever. -6 the other night and i stood outside looking at the stars, a thought- spring is coming. cleaned out the range bag. cut some patches. being able to go to the range during the week is great, few shooters. now i just have to search how to post pictures.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-07-2015, 11:27 AM
Rastoff's Avatar
Rastoff Rastoff is offline
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: So Cal (Near Edwards AFB)
Posts: 11,815
Likes: 1,779
Liked 11,063 Times in 4,534 Posts
Default

I can help with posting pics. There are a couple of explanations on the forum, like this one: Posting pictures

Or you can email them to me at rastoff1@gmail.com and I'll post them for you.
__________________
Freedom isn't free.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-07-2015, 03:00 PM
RobzGuns's Avatar
RobzGuns RobzGuns is online now
US Veteran
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,386
Likes: 1,328
Liked 1,787 Times in 869 Posts
Default

I'll give it a go at my next range trip.
I typically use the Birchwood Casey 6" Shoot-N-See.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #20  
Old 03-07-2015, 04:22 PM
Rastoff's Avatar
Rastoff Rastoff is offline
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: So Cal (Near Edwards AFB)
Posts: 11,815
Likes: 1,779
Liked 11,063 Times in 4,534 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel W. View Post
I can't say I spend all too much time shooting from a static stance anymore. I just don't think it accurately reflects defensive realities.
It doesn't, that's the point. Lots of guys on the interweb claim that they are "good enough" shots so they don't need this training or that practice. This is a challenge to see if they, anyone, can even shoot at a static target.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel W. View Post
It's important for the beginner...
Marksmanship and fundamentals are important for everyone from beginner to advanced. Anyone who says differently is...well, wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel W. View Post
...if your not training a lot of shooting one handed incorporating defensive movement, I don't think your preparing properly yourself to effectively the majority of handle actual defensive scenarios you would likely encounter.
Yeah, sure, but let's start at the beginning. Remember, I teach defensive shooting so, I agree that movement, shooting with one hand, shooting with the support hand and other stuff, is necessary to be as effective as one can be in a defensive situation. But first let's just hit the target.

Your comment gives me the impression that "Rastoff's Challenge" is beneath you or not worth your time. Is that true? If it is, then you are exactly the person I'm challenging. There is never a time in shooting when Sight Alignment, Sight Picture, Trigger Control and Follow Through are not important. This challenge is an exercise in executing those 4 fundamentals as perfectly as you can. Think "one ragged hole" drill.

We talk all the time about how shot placement is the key to effective self-defense shooting. Here is an opportunity to test yourself at shot placement. The goal here is the smallest group possible. It's you vs the target, nothing more.


Don't lose sight of the fact that this is for fun and experience. We can do more later. Also, no one has to participate. This is just an opportunity to challenge ourselves. If anyone doesn't want to do it, fine.

Are you in?
__________________
Freedom isn't free.
Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Like Post:
  #21  
Old 03-07-2015, 05:42 PM
Fishinfool Fishinfool is offline
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Central PA
Posts: 2,026
Likes: 2,290
Liked 3,264 Times in 1,096 Posts
Default

Rastoff- I spent a couple years full time teaching various federal LEO agencies. About 85% were new recruits, and 15% advanced instruction.

What surprised me was that a large number of the "advanced" students could not do what you have posted.

I understand the need for speed, cover, and "combat accuracy", but it all begins with basics - proper grip, sight alignment, and trigger control.

Good shooting with that old fashioned 1911, by the way...

Larry
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03-07-2015, 06:32 PM
Rastoff's Avatar
Rastoff Rastoff is offline
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: So Cal (Near Edwards AFB)
Posts: 11,815
Likes: 1,779
Liked 11,063 Times in 4,534 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel W. View Post
Not beneath me and no disrespect meant, just offering a different perspective.
I didn't see it as disrespectful. I'm just trying to push you to try the challenge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel W. View Post
Nearly all of my firearm training now is 0-21 feet, threat focused and unsighted.
Yes, I hear this all the time. Out to three yards, maybe 5, I can see using a flash sight picture, even shooting from the hip. Beyond that I don't understand not using the sights. You have the time, why not give yourself the best opportunity to hit? The sights are how that's done.

Have you ever heard of a guy by the name of Jack Weaver? If not, it's worth it to read his story. He was really the first guy to be a staunch proponent of using the sights on a pistol. He won many national titles by using the sights. Sure, it was a tiny bit slower, but far more accurate.
__________________
Freedom isn't free.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #23  
Old 03-07-2015, 07:46 PM
RV4driver's Avatar
RV4driver RV4driver is offline
US Veteran
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Occupied Colorado
Posts: 869
Likes: 36
Liked 636 Times in 307 Posts
Default


Walther PPQ. Should have shot a few rounds first to find POI for my typical hold. I have replaced the front sight on the Walther and it doesn't shoot to a typical POI, but it works for my usual distances, not so much for these distances. The first oval is 2x3, the next is 4x6. (Actually a bit less, but not much.)

Dan Wesson CBOB. Home-made "repair center".
__________________
Fight socialism. Never stop.
Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Like Post:
  #24  
Old 03-07-2015, 08:13 PM
Rastoff's Avatar
Rastoff Rastoff is offline
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: So Cal (Near Edwards AFB)
Posts: 11,815
Likes: 1,779
Liked 11,063 Times in 4,534 Posts
Default

I love it! Nice shooting there RV4driver.
__________________
Freedom isn't free.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03-07-2015, 08:31 PM
Rastoff's Avatar
Rastoff Rastoff is offline
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: So Cal (Near Edwards AFB)
Posts: 11,815
Likes: 1,779
Liked 11,063 Times in 4,534 Posts
Default

OK, ok, are you gonna play or not?
__________________
Freedom isn't free.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #26  
Old 03-07-2015, 09:17 PM
Protected One's Avatar
Protected One Protected One is offline
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,541
Likes: 1,883
Liked 2,734 Times in 1,130 Posts
Default ...and today with my BHP

This group was shot, per the challenge, with my Browning High Power.

Next range trip I'll shoot it with my EDC (Shield 9mm)...prepare to be beaten!
Attached Thumbnails
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet-img_2500-jpg   Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet-img_2501-jpg  
__________________
Stay protected my friends.

Last edited by Protected One; 03-07-2015 at 10:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Like Post:
  #27  
Old 03-07-2015, 10:29 PM
Protected One's Avatar
Protected One Protected One is offline
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,541
Likes: 1,883
Liked 2,734 Times in 1,130 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ContinentalOp View Post
Not great, but I don't think it's too bad, either. There's always room for improvement.
In a defensive situation...those 5 would get the job done!
__________________
Stay protected my friends.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #28  
Old 03-07-2015, 11:12 PM
ContinentalOp's Avatar
ContinentalOp ContinentalOp is online now
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,902
Likes: 2,970
Liked 2,006 Times in 807 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Protected One View Post
In a defensive situation...those 5 would get the job done!
Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 03-08-2015, 01:36 AM
Rastoff's Avatar
Rastoff Rastoff is offline
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: So Cal (Near Edwards AFB)
Posts: 11,815
Likes: 1,779
Liked 11,063 Times in 4,534 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Protected One View Post
This group was shot, per the challenge, with my Browning High Power.
Not bad brother. I loves me some Hi-Power. The last progeny of JMB himself. It's a wonderful gun. I wonder how it would have turned out had he lived a little longer. Sometimes my wife will let me shoot hers.
__________________
Freedom isn't free.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #30  
Old 03-08-2015, 08:39 AM
Muss Muggins's Avatar
Muss Muggins Muss Muggins is offline
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: southeast Missouri
Posts: 7,749
Likes: 2,717
Liked 9,487 Times in 3,365 Posts
Default

I'll post mine next weekend. I did the 3 and 5 yard shots yesterday, and I'm going to do the 7 yard Saturday afternoon and the 10 yard Sunday morning. Thought I'd get yelled at for posting a picture of the target halfway through . . .
__________________
Wisdom comes thru fear . . .
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #31  
Old 03-08-2015, 03:22 PM
Rastoff's Avatar
Rastoff Rastoff is offline
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: So Cal (Near Edwards AFB)
Posts: 11,815
Likes: 1,779
Liked 11,063 Times in 4,534 Posts
Default

Oooh, you're cheating. The idea is to do them all at the same time. Meh, I don't care. It's hard enough just to get people to do it at all.

Go ahead, post the pic of the target you've got so far. I won't yell at you.
__________________
Freedom isn't free.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 03-08-2015, 03:28 PM
Muss Muggins's Avatar
Muss Muggins Muss Muggins is offline
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: southeast Missouri
Posts: 7,749
Likes: 2,717
Liked 9,487 Times in 3,365 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
Oooh, you're cheating. The idea is to do them all at the same time. Meh, I don't care. It's hard enough just to get people to do it at all.

Go ahead, post the pic of the target you've got so far. I won't yell at you.
All shots are fired with the shooters choice of grip and stance and start from the ready position (gun loaded, but not in holster). They are all untimed so, there is no need to hurry.

So what rule are you changing next?
__________________
Wisdom comes thru fear . . .
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #33  
Old 03-08-2015, 04:43 PM
Protected One's Avatar
Protected One Protected One is offline
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,541
Likes: 1,883
Liked 2,734 Times in 1,130 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
All shots are fired with the shooters choice of grip and stance and start from the ready position (gun loaded, but not in holster). They are all untimed so, there is no need to hurry.

So what rule are you changing next?
Even though I'm sure Muss Muggins KNOWS what you meant by "they are all untimed", technically he's got you!
__________________
Stay protected my friends.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #34  
Old 03-08-2015, 05:11 PM
Rastoff's Avatar
Rastoff Rastoff is offline
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: So Cal (Near Edwards AFB)
Posts: 11,815
Likes: 1,779
Liked 11,063 Times in 4,534 Posts
Default

Hey, just like I said with the rifle, if that's what it takes to beat me....

At least he's shooting. How many are out there that won't even try?
__________________
Freedom isn't free.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #35  
Old 03-08-2015, 05:42 PM
Shorty 45 MK2's Avatar
Shorty 45 MK2 Shorty 45 MK2 is offline
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Central NC.
Posts: 3,210
Likes: 37,613
Liked 4,343 Times in 1,840 Posts
Default

Sweet! I'll try to do it tomorrow after work.
__________________
An "Obsolete" man.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 03-08-2015, 06:06 PM
Doug M.'s Avatar
Doug M. Doug M. is offline
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Washington State
Posts: 4,219
Likes: 4,247
Liked 3,300 Times in 1,581 Posts
Default

I don't have easy access to a range due to my work schedule, but I'll post the description of my last LEOSA qual with my G17 (shortened to G19 butt size and better sights):

At 3 yards, draw and file 4 shots, 2 body, 2 head, 7 seconds.
At 5 yards, draw and fire 3 shots, strong hand only, 5 seconds.
At 5 yards, 3 rounds, support hand only, 7 seconds including switching hands.
At 7 yards, from the ready, 5 rounds, 9 seconds.
At 10 yards, from the ready, 5 rounds, 12 seconds.
At 15 yards, from the ready, 5 rounds, 12 seconds.

25 rounds total, 250 points, 247/250. I think those time limits are unduly generous and try to push myself to as much faster as I can.

Did not do as well with 45ACP revolver, still got 213 with at least 1 dropped shot (0). I don't shoot revolvers much and should do more training with them. A couple years ago I had the same score with .41 loaded with Gold Dot JHP which made me more than a few enemies on the indoor range.
__________________
NHI. 10-8.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #37  
Old 03-08-2015, 06:23 PM
Muss Muggins's Avatar
Muss Muggins Muss Muggins is offline
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: southeast Missouri
Posts: 7,749
Likes: 2,717
Liked 9,487 Times in 3,365 Posts
Default

I will never understand a concealed carry qualifying score being attained while firing "from the ready . . . "
__________________
Wisdom comes thru fear . . .
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #38  
Old 03-08-2015, 06:23 PM
Rastoff's Avatar
Rastoff Rastoff is offline
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: So Cal (Near Edwards AFB)
Posts: 11,815
Likes: 1,779
Liked 11,063 Times in 4,534 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug M. View Post
I don't have easy access to a range due to my work schedule,...
A police officer that doesn't have access to a range? That's just wrong on so many levels.

Thanks for posting the qualification test. I'd just like to see guys do the one in the OP first. Then we can move on to other tests.
__________________
Freedom isn't free.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #39  
Old 03-09-2015, 01:08 PM
Protected One's Avatar
Protected One Protected One is offline
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,541
Likes: 1,883
Liked 2,734 Times in 1,130 Posts
Default Surprised

Man! I sure expected alot more people on this forum to participate. Guess we have more "talkers", than "shooters", huh?
__________________
Stay protected my friends.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #40  
Old 03-09-2015, 01:17 PM
soFlaNative's Avatar
soFlaNative soFlaNative is offline
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Hollywood
Posts: 5,766
Likes: 8,673
Liked 14,006 Times in 4,103 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Protected One View Post
Man! I sure expected alot more people on this forum to participate. Guess we have more "talkers", than "shooters", huh?
Give some of us some time.
I'd like to become proficient. This challenge seems a way to begin.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 03-09-2015, 02:01 PM
RobzGuns's Avatar
RobzGuns RobzGuns is online now
US Veteran
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,386
Likes: 1,328
Liked 1,787 Times in 869 Posts
Default

I made it to the range this morning and ran the challenge.
The only pistol used today was my 9mm Shield (my carry pistol).

The 1st target was shot 'cold' (no Warm Up).
The Orange center on that target is 2" in Diameter.

The 2nd pic of three 6" 'Shoot-N-C' targets are as followed:
Left Target was @ 21', All shots were Controlled Pairs. My Followup shots seem to be going Low-Left.
Center Target was a repeat of the Challenge.
Right Target was at 30', mostly single shots, 1sec-2sec intervals.
For reference, on the 6" Shoot-N-C targets, the distance from one number 9 to the other number 9, is 2" across.

If I can do this with a Little ol' Shield, you guys with the bigger artillery should be able to handle this challenge.
Attached Thumbnails
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet-challenge1-jpg   Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet-challenge2-jpg  

Last edited by RobzGuns; 03-09-2015 at 02:06 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #42  
Old 03-09-2015, 02:03 PM
RobzGuns's Avatar
RobzGuns RobzGuns is online now
US Veteran
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,386
Likes: 1,328
Liked 1,787 Times in 869 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Protected One View Post
Man! I sure expected alot more people on this forum to participate. Guess we have more "talkers", than "shooters", huh?
Considering the challenge was only posted last Friday, this ain't such a bad turnout... Especially with this weekend's weather.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #43  
Old 03-09-2015, 03:30 PM
ContinentalOp's Avatar
ContinentalOp ContinentalOp is online now
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,902
Likes: 2,970
Liked 2,006 Times in 807 Posts
Default

I was able to hit the range this morning to do the challenge. I fired it cold, no warm-up or practice runs.

I used my 642 (stock except for Spegel boot grips), firing Remington UMC Leadless 125gr FNEB.

The gun:



4 rounds @ 3 yards
6 rounds @ 5 yards
6 rounds @ 7 yards
4 rounds @ 10 yards



I'm not sure if the target's dimensions match the B27, so I took a couple more photos with a tape measure for reference:





And for the defense-minded, I did three 5-shot strings, rapid-fire, 1-handed, at 3 yards, using Speer SB-GDHP. The last 5-shot string was fired after drawing from concealment.



I used my Side Guard Quick Clip holster:



Not exactly award-winning marksmanship, but I think it would suffice.

Also noticed my groups concentrating to the left. I'll have to look into that.
Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Like Post:
  #44  
Old 03-09-2015, 03:57 PM
Shorty 45 MK2's Avatar
Shorty 45 MK2 Shorty 45 MK2 is offline
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Central NC.
Posts: 3,210
Likes: 37,613
Liked 4,343 Times in 1,840 Posts
Default

Went on my lunch break and tried out my "new" 4516. I had a 100rd warm up, but since it's the first time I shot this pistol I think it's fair.

First round at 3, 5, 7 and 10 yards were DA followed with SA. per the rules. Ammo used was Winchester 230gr. ball.

Here's the result....

Well I didn't beat Rastoff. So he was right on that account. At least I have room to improve!

With a ruler.

__________________
An "Obsolete" man.

Last edited by Shorty 45 MK2; 03-09-2015 at 04:00 PM. Reason: Add type of ammo.
Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Like Post:
  #45  
Old 03-09-2015, 04:11 PM
ContinentalOp's Avatar
ContinentalOp ContinentalOp is online now
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,902
Likes: 2,970
Liked 2,006 Times in 807 Posts
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorty 45 MK2 View Post
Went on my lunch break and tried out my "new" 4516. I had a 100rd warm up, but since it's the first time I shot this pistol I think it's fair.

First round at 3, 5, 7 and 10 yards were DA followed with SA. per the rules. Ammo used was Winchester 230gr. ball.
Nicely done.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #46  
Old 03-09-2015, 04:16 PM
ContinentalOp's Avatar
ContinentalOp ContinentalOp is online now
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,902
Likes: 2,970
Liked 2,006 Times in 807 Posts
Default

Everybody's targets look really good to me. I'm looking forward to seeing more results.

Thanks for the great thread, Rastoff.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #47  
Old 03-09-2015, 04:24 PM
Shorty 45 MK2's Avatar
Shorty 45 MK2 Shorty 45 MK2 is offline
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Central NC.
Posts: 3,210
Likes: 37,613
Liked 4,343 Times in 1,840 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ContinentalOp View Post
Nicely done.
Thank you.

Your's ain't bad either!
__________________
An "Obsolete" man.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #48  
Old 03-09-2015, 04:42 PM
ContinentalOp's Avatar
ContinentalOp ContinentalOp is online now
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,902
Likes: 2,970
Liked 2,006 Times in 807 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorty 45 MK2 View Post
Thank you.

Your's ain't bad either!
Thanks.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #49  
Old 03-09-2015, 04:54 PM
P&R Fan P&R Fan is offline
Member
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NE Iowa
Posts: 5,444
Likes: 1,952
Liked 3,438 Times in 1,273 Posts
Default

When I got my first carry permit in 1985 you had to take a class and then "qualify". It was at about 7 yards, and the target was a round bullseye. You had to just hit the black, a circle about 10" wide, 5 times out of 10. You could shoot any way you wanted. Standing, prone, with a rest, whatever. They said to load 5 rounds, shoot them, and then 5 more. I took my Dad's K-22. Loaded 6 rounds, easily put them in the black from a standing position and stopped. There was an old guy there shooting a single action .22. He put the rest down and was leaning on it, with his hands shaking. For all I know he might still be there.
When Iowa went shall issue they changed the law. Now when you first get the permit you do not have to qualify. However, when you re-qualify you do. Seems kinda stupid to me. When I re-qualified I decided to make it fun. Took my 5" Heavy Duty. Range officer had never seen one. Fired a cylinder full into a tight cluster and quit.
And yes, I do carry it. Was doing so earlier today.
Just because I can.
Jim
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #50  
Old 03-09-2015, 06:12 PM
ChattanoogaPhil's Avatar
ChattanoogaPhil ChattanoogaPhil is offline
Moderator
Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 14,374
Likes: 7,540
Liked 19,559 Times in 5,708 Posts
Default

7yds

Old fat half blind man with an LCP that pretty much has no sights.
I guess that's close to 2x3in that Rastoff is talking about. Do I win a prize?

I rarely slow precision shoot at paper with carry guns other than when the gun is new for POA/POI reference.

Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The dreaded Its the gun or me gauntlet... Maximumbob54 The Lounge 139 02-15-2017 09:48 PM
The Gauntlet movie heckler65 S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 11 09-06-2008 01:54 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:38 AM.


S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2015
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)