The question of whether or not a magazine safety is needed on a carry gun has been raging since the invention of the first internet forum. Some guns are equipped with the safety in question and some aren't. Police agencies authorize both types.

The big question is: what are the legal ramifications of removing the safety? That the trigger improves without the safety is not in question. It is not my intention to ignite yet another firestorm on this hot-button topic. Enough well-grounded people feel that bypassing or defeating a safety system on a carry gun leaves the user quite vulnerable to character impeachment in a subsequent review of a shooting incident. If the modified gun were to be involved in an accidental or unintended shooting, you can expect significant responsibility.

I removed the safety from my Browning HP years ago and also had some trigger work and polishing done. Recently, I thought better of my decision, obtained the necessary parts from a gunsmith-friend and re-installed them.

Interestingly, the recent 10-round mags I acquired to comply with NYS law are blued to a mirror finish. The original, gray-brown Browning 13-rounders do not have a mirror finish. As the magazine safety moves upward against the magazine upon firing, any friction at that point can be felt in the form of grittiness.

The trigger pull with the newer magazine was much smoother. I've added a drop of oil to the face of the magazine safety and frankly, I really don't think the magazine safety is an issue except for the fact that the magazines do not drop free. It would be nice if someone were to make a slightly elongated magazine floor plate that can be swept by the support hand on its way to the magazine pouch.

Since it's SAO and hammer fired I see no need at all for the mag safety and since they are plenty of guns without a mag safety I can't see a legal problem but I'm not a lawyer.

I'm in the 'It's where and why of the rounds strike' camp and not if
the handgun used had the magazine disconnect deactivated or not.

I personally don't care for mag disconnects.....


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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

Since long before that.

None. This also has been debated for time immemorial. It is a reasonable argument to say that some prosecutor might try to use a modified gun against you. However, there has yet to be a single case, where the fact a gun was modified played any role in convicting someone who used it to defend themselves.

In any shooting, regardless of gun or state of repair, there will be significant responsibility. It will be about the shooting not the gun.


Your gun is not working correctly and needs repair. The mags should drop free, mag disconnect or not. If they are not, something is binding them up. Either the mags are bad or something is in the pistol.

Newer Hi-Power mags have a spring to assist in ejection:

You can see it there just at the bottom of the back of the mag.

Also, they do have a base plate with a lip on the front. It should stick out far enough to be able to get a finger tip on there to strip the mag out should that be necessary (it shouldn't as we discussed earlier).

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Freedom isn't free.

You can see how the mag base plate protrudes just in front of the grip:

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Freedom isn't free.

Some years ago I picked up a nice Mark III BHP. While aware of all the above, I removed the mag safety--and boy, was that trigger pin ever TIGHT! Granted, it only improved the trigger pull slightly; I could have lived with it without the alteration. The main advantage, IMHO, was that it then had the same manual of arms as the good old 1911.

The new Ruger Mark III .22 pistols are a nightmare; I've been handling and field stripping the original versions for 50 years and the new ones are awful. I have one "in the shop" waiting for a Volquartsen kit, and I will neuter the mag safety at the same time.

Methinks that if a shoot is good it will turn on if real jeopardy existed in the mind of a reasonable man, and if the action was reasonable or not.

I suppose I could throw in something snarky to the effect that an NIB Glock right out of the box is theoretically more "dangerous" than a BHP with a functional thumb safety, but that would probably cause the earth to wobble on its axis or something.

We never had all these problems back in 1934.

I found that the removal of the safety not only helped the action slightly, but I don't care for Autos with a Mag Safety. I like the ability to fire a round in the chamber if between magazines while doing a reload.

I sold the gun a few years back and restored the safety to function . If new owner wants to remove it that is HIS prerogative. The gun was a Belgium Browning and was wonderful, I just did not particularly care for 9MM's (still don't) so that's why I sold it.

I have two BHPs and I removed the mag safetys from both. I wasn't
really concerned about the trigger pulls, I just want my guns to be
able to fire without the magazine in place. A magazine safety in any
gun carried for SD seems like a liability to me.

I removed the mag safety on my duty Browning High Power, as I thought it was a liability too.......... put the dern thing up & haven't seen it since....over 35 years later. With the new Speer Gold Dot 9mm bullets & the new Hornady critical defense bullets, the 9mm 's position as a duty carry gun has improved dramatically.

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I've pulled the mag safety from every single Hi Power I've bought before they ever even went to the range. I have never been able to figure out what they are actually good for.

I tried to drift mine out and gave up pretty quickly. Even the gunsmith had a hard time with it.

And it wasn't more than a few weeks before I had it at the smith to have the magazine safety removed. It's useless to me. Removing it made the gun MUCH easier to shoot accurately. I'm VASTLY more likely to get in trouble for missing and shooting the wrong person than for shooting the right one without a magazine safety in place.

As for the "accidental shooting" claim that a predator's lawyer might make:

1. In Ohio, neither your assailant nor his mutant family can recover a penny in a justifiable shooting, so that horse is stone dead before it leaves the starting gate.
2. It's probably a really tough sell to a jury that somebody "accidentally" Mozambiqued somebody, magazine safety or not.

Like the Glock "New York trigger", they're a bad "solution" to a "problem" that wouldn't exist with proper training and common sense.

I like the ability to fire a round if there's NO magazine, as in the magazine or the magazine release failing.

"Soldier of Fortune" concluded their review of the old Rogak pistol with the reviewer throwing it downrange like a boomerang. I don't see that as any more effective a self-defense technique with the Browning, which actually fires until you stop pulling the trigger or the magazine is empty...

took mine out years ago. don't regret it. recently sent it to Cylinder and Slide for some work and they never said a thing about it. if it was a legal issue, i'm pretty sure they wouldn't have done any work on it or at least mentioned it. i say this because they would NOT check my 20 round mags for function. they didn't even take them out of the bag. they even called me to tell me they wouldn't touch 'em. not a word about lack of mag safety...

I've never actually heard of someone using a pistol in combat with a round in the chamber and no magazine. I'm sure it's happened somewhere, but it has to be a really rare occurrence. I'm fine with the trigger pull on my unmodified HP from the mid-70's. It's six pounds even and crisp, and I like a heavier pull on a service-type handgun. I have found that the magazine disconnect affects the trigger take-up more with the newer shiny Mec-Gar magazines than with either the original magazine or the Browning-marked "mousetrap" magazines (also made by Mec-Gar). The "mousetrap" magazines also have a modified follower that positions the round slightly higher to help in feeding hollowpoints in older HPs. I have no problems with removing a magazine disconnect, but it's not worth the bother for me.

I'm no lawyer but I sure don't care to have unnecessary devises on my guns.

Unless it leads to an ND or you're in a freedom hating state I would not worry.

Left mine in and use it for house gun,when grand kids come over magazine goes in my pocket and hp goes to top of grandfather clock.Better safe than sorry. I don't see my self in a running gunfight and changing magazine before its empty and locked open. Never was trained to do that or reload till it was empty and locked open by the slide stop,then reload with fresh magazine. Magazine safety was never problem in military warfare combat. I have never seen anyone change a magazine till it was empty.

I've had it happen to me. OK, not in a live gunfight, but in training. I go to do a tactical reload and another bad guy pops up just as I get the partially expended mag out. That one shot could be the difference between surviving and not.

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying the mag disconnect is the devil. I don't think everyone who doesn't remove them is stupid. I was just pointing out that it could be useful to be able to fire that one round.

It falls into the category of, "better to have and not need than need and not have."

As far as safety goes, any person who will have a negligent discharge without the mag disconnect, is likely primed to have one even with the disconnect.

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Freedom isn't free.

The ONLY negligent discharge I've EVER had was with a fully loaded gun with the magazine in it.

If you're not obeying the fundamentals of firearms safety, NO device, other than a cable lock through the barrel (or through the grip frame and ejection port) or around the top strap of a revolver... to which you DON'T have the key or combination, is going to stop you from having a negligent discharge.

I own 3 BHPs. Two are WWII Inglis-manufactured (Type 1 and 2), and one Hungarian FEG clone which I have had customized to my taste by Cylinder and Slide. The first two had already had the mag safeties removed or never installed in the first place as combat weapons, and I removed the FEG mag safety.

If there is a round in the chamber, and I pull the trigger, it's because I want the gun to go "bang." Magazine present or not.
It's as simple as that.

John

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I'm not sure that the magazine dropping freely was part of the design for the BHP magazine disconnect. In fact, given military doctrine at the time of the design, I'd bet a reasonable amount against it.

That said, the shoe part of the disconnector that contacts the trigger can be reshaped to minimize interference with both the magazine drop and the trigger pull*. The spring that powers the widget is also much stronger than necessary and can be reduced in power.

As noted, polishing the contact spot on the mag can also help.

* I only ruined one experimenting.

Yep just like a M1 Garand if you know you fired 6 shots the last two were fired fast and reloaded before you moved to next cover. Worked in combat all over the world in many wars. Many enemy died charging a empty Garand. Zero to a fraction of a second loaded and fired,same as a HP in real combat in war. Good enough for the U.S. Army and good enough for me.

WADR...no disrespect intended, but this ^^^ is just not true. Absent a "mousetrap magazine, the vast majority of unmodified BHPs will not drop the factory magazine free with a simple press of the magazine release. The lone fact that a magazine fails to drop free from a BHP is not proof the pistol is in need of "repair".

In fact, the Belgian Pistol Trials that concluded in late 1934...and resulted in Belgian adoption of the P35, concluded that production P35s should be altered dimentionally such that they would reliably retain the magazine.....

I'll defer to you guys. A long time ago it was in fashion to not have the mag drop freely. The idea was to be able to retain the mag for use later. Since the BHP was finished by someone other than JMB, it's certainly likely that the 1911 thought process didn't carry through to the finished product. The original Glock design retained the mags as well. They redesigned the mags so they would drop free later.

Was the mag safety designed to help retain the mag? I guess it could have been. I stand corrected.

My BHP drops the mags freely. Yes, even the original mags that don't have the spring assist. If it didn't, I wouldn't have bought it. But that's just me. Any defensive gun I have, I want the mags to drop free.

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Freedom isn't free.

I know it's a one in a million chance and for all practical purposes would never happen but if your mag got lost or damaged you wouldn't be able to fire your gun if you have a mag safety. If you don't you can always drop one in the chamber and fire. For emergency use only do not try this at home

As do I my friend, and those BHPs...and there are more of those than would be polite to reveal ...in fact every one of my pistols intended for serious use today, comes from the factory designed...or modified to, drop the magazine with a press of the magazine release. Well , except for the P7s, P9S, HK4 and HSc I'd carried On/Off Duty 30 and more years ago....which might very occasionally be carried today...for nostalgic purposes only mind you .

Returning to the BHP specifically...especially when it comes to features, I find it instructive to recall that though HRH...and I mean that in the most respectful sense, JMB receives credit for the BHP of today it was as much to honor FN's "Le Maitre" and take commercial advantage of the highly regarded...particularly in Europe, JMB name as it was to legally acknowledge (Browning’s Patent Depose) US Patent # 1,618,510 of 1923/27...which incidentally was an overly large, slide riding within the frame, striker fired design using a removable en-bloc breechbolt . FN...often in the person of Dieudonne Joseph Saive (later...Father of the FAL), cleaned up JMB's design in many ways before...and after, JMB's 1926 death. This was done...yes, including the dreaded MDS , in continued pursuit of the nebulous French Military Contract...which was the genesis for FN's 1921 design request to JMB in the first place.

Keep in mind also that DJS designed the original staggered column box magazine…that JMB used in designing his tool room pistol, and which ultimately formed the basis for the name Grande Puissance/High Power.

Tiring of the ridiculously sliding scale, open ended nature of the French Contract Trials FN tasked DJS with departing from the gradually more obviously dead end French Trials design and designing a new pistol intended for the world market...that might secondarily also satisfy the French. This pistol…the initial prototype of which was completed very late 1927 with final prototype/dealer sample form by 1930 and which...for all intents and purposes, is the BHP we know today, uses exactly 2 of JMB's US Patent features; the respected lug/cam lock-up and the "less respected" Mickey Mouse trigger linkage.

Had it not been for the crash of 1929…and subsequent worldwide depression, we likely would have had the "BHP" 5 years earlier than we did...and perhaps the magazines would have more likely fallen free .