.22 Caliber can be Magnum or any loading of the rimfire. Enjoy.

Um.......

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Both pretty anemic, but I would vote for the .25 because of the centerfire's better reliability over the rimfire. Aftermarket hyper ammo also boosts potency for this little round.

Are we now going to have a caliber war between 25 ACP and 22 rimfire? OHHHHH BOY!

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Quando omni flunkus moritati.

Being centerfire, 25 ACP is inherently more reliable ignition than 22. Modern rimfire ammunition seems to be much more reliable now than it was in the past. Firearms chambered in 25 ACP tend to be small vest pocket size guns of varying quality. Colt, Browning (FN) 25s are very well made but their small size makes them difficult for some to shoot well. The Walther PPK was made in 25 ACP (6.35mm) but is rarely found in that calibre. 22s of course run the gamut from top end target pistols (S&W 41) to inexpensive pocket size mass produced models of questionable reliability. Then there are 22 revolvers from tiny 5 shot minis up to ten shot S&W Masterpieces.
Ammo choices are very limited in 25 ACP and almost unlimited in 22 LR and 22 Mag. None of the above can be considered ideal for defensive carry. In a small pocket pistol, the edge goes to 25 due to being centerfire and semi-rimmed. Now that there are 32s and 380s as small as most 25s, there is not much reason to coose a 25.
22s can be very accurate and easy to shoot well. A few 22s to the head have more stopping power than a 44 magnum complete miss. Many carry 22LR or 22Mag as a trail or back up gun. 25, not so much.
As neat as the Baby Browning and Colt 1908 Vest Pocket are, the Tomcat, Seecamp and LCP have rendered them and the 25 ACP obsolete.

Whichever one that is going to be on your person all the time.

The Vice guys had access to a .25 that my former agency purchased for them to use when the circumstances dictated, and a supervisor approved. That, in my opinion, would give the edge to the twenty-five.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

Either one would require perfect bullet placement, NEITHER imho!

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BrewsterII

I cannot agree that modern rimfire is more reliable. I have had many more duds than in the past.

If offered either of those wimps I would prefer a good Bowie type knife.

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14 S&W Revs none with locks!

Back in the 60's my neighbor was a doctor's assistant and brought me a professional journal from her boss that contained an article including x-ray photos about a shooting victim.

The victim had been assaulted and robbed outside a club one night and knocked unconscious. When he came to he went home, cleaned up and went to bed. Next morning he went to his doctor with a severe headache and burning in his mouth.

Long story short, a .25 cal pistol had been shoved in his mouth and fired five times. The X-rays showed all five slugs lodged inside his skull. He apparently survived but if I had not seen the article and x-rays in a respected medical journal I would not have believed it.

I sold the only .25 I had and never considered another.

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Pay attention...it pays to win

"WHICH IS MORE EFFECTIVE FOR CARRY,25ACP OR 22 CALIBER"

Since both rounds are small, I'd say they can be effectively carried equally .

If you mean which would be more effective if you had to use one, probably one of those (other brand) 30-round .22 Magnum semi-auto pistols and three full magazines might do.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Maybe some of those could be due to the firearm and not the ammo. I have looked over several used guns that had obvious damage from being dry fired. Are there brands of ammo that you have had more trouble with than others?

Your experience with dud rimfires should re-enforce the point that center fire will always be more reliable over the long haul. I have shot some very old centerfire ammunition, some even dating before world war two. I would not be suprised if rimfire ammo that old had 50% to 100% duds. A dud (or even worse, a squib) in a defense situation would be a disaster. When you are betting your life, you want all the odds stacked in your favor.

The .22 lr is a ways down on my list of self defense cartridges. But, the .25 acp isn't even on the list.

Handgun Cartridge Power Chart - Condensed Version

I'm trying hard to think of a more worthless cartridge than a .25 ACP,, But so far I haven't thought of one..

Pointy stick?

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Retired Career Security Guard

I'd take a 22 mag revolver any day over a 25.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

Many years ago, I saw a marshmallow gun; shot the little marshmallows about 10-15 feet. Was fun to try and put them into a cup of hot chocolate from across the room.
Might be a step up from a .25.... Acebow

Neither would be my choice. But if these were the ONLY choices I had I would go with a 22 Magnum.

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Let's go with ballistics.

2" barrel both examples:

Wiki sez a .25 acp can do 1100 fps with a 30 grain bullet

Ballistics by the inch sez .22 magnum can do 962 fps with a 30 grain Hornady Vmax but can get 1114 fps with 25 gr Hornady NTX.

That gives a miniscule advantage to the .25 acp over the .22 magnum.

Since my philosophy is not to depend on a one shot stop with ANY cartridge/gun combination I would think that a triple tap or more with either one of these would probably hurt somebody.

PS: A .22 killed Robert Kennedy, but was probably close or even pressed to his head.

PPS: I didn't realize that he was shot three times, but it was the one in the head that did it. Sirhan kept firing the gun while Rosy Grier muscled him against a steam table. Being a .22 they hoped the damage would not be that bad until they saw the hole in his head.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

I my case it is not the gun or guns. None of my rimfires are dry fired. I don't think my 39A or my pre 17 have an issue. I would never trust todays rimfire stuff. Granted the Winchester 333 packs and the Remington Thunderbolt was the budget stuff but 30 out of a brick is crazy. On the other hand I can't remember having a misfire centerfire.

Conventional wisdom for the past 40 years has been to go centerfire over rimfire..........that said........

will any auto cycle if the muzzle is in contact with the target?

My "guess' is that a .22magnum out of a sub 4-6" barrel is just a lot of flash and blast vs. a .22lr.

I've wonder how well someone can cock and fire those micro/mini-revolvers under stress..........once let alone multiple (4-5?) times.


The target for either is ....IMHO... in the eye socket, up the nose or in the ear...............bounce around inside the skull.........

Would I rather have a good 4" knife at .22/.25 range ?????....... no reloads needed ...... just keep stabbing/slashing

I second the 22 Magnum..

The 22 Mag has my vote but try cocking a SA small revolver .
Plus the one I had was back three times for failing parts....
Now, nothing but a .380 DA auto has my vote as minimum.
Do not CC of any of them now.

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Only difference Fool/Mule-ears

I read different. Wiki says a 30gr 22 mag 2300 fps and 322 fp of energy. Compared to a 35gr 25ACP at 1100 fps and 94 fp of energy. That's a big difference.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

At the risk of getting in a peeing contest re .22 vs .25.....I believe more people have been shot and killed with a .22 than with any other caliber.

WHICH IS MORE EFFECTIVE

Since neither is likely to be effective, the idea of 'more' doesn't work here.

I think Col. Cooper summed it up best about the .25 ACP. He said if you have one, don't carry it. If you carry it, don't load it. If you load it, don't shoot anybody with it. If you do, you may hit them, and that may cause them to get very angry.
Or something to that effect.
Jim

I carried a 1903 Colt vest Pocket 25 as a hideout for many years. I carried it in my hip pocket behind my badge wallet. I have posted elsewhere about the time I used it. I have seen many a sassy bandit, as Gus McCrae would say, killed deader than a mackeral with 22s and 25s, especially back in the days of Jennings, Davis, Bryco, and Raven.

Well that's what you do to fire one..

Want some cheese to go with the whine..

If you go down to the 2" barrel I believe it matches what I said.

It wouldn't fair to compare a rifle barrel with a 2".

And a pocket revolver with a 24" barrel would make your walk a little suspicious.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

See where you didn't quote that the thing broke parts several times.....

No wine, just scotch for me please.....

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Only difference Fool/Mule-ears

The .22 has been so popular as a civilian gun it doesn't surprise me that a LOT of people have been shot by them. It would be good to know the ratio of shots:kills with the .22 and the .25 acp.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Some gunwriters just love to pick on the .25 acp and compare 2" 25
data to 22 data from a 6" revolver barrel. In guns of the same size,
like small autos with barrels of 2" or slightly greater length there is no
comparison. The 25 easily wins. One reason is that the 25 is loaded
with fast burning pistol powder while the optimal barrel length for
22 ammo is around 18-20". Reliability of feeding and ignition favors
the 25 and the standard 50 gr fmj gives better penetration than the
22 loads. Despite the stories of failures there have been countless
instances of one shot kills with the 25 acp with it's standard 50 gr
bullet.

The point of a SD gun is not to kill the other guy, it is to keep the other guy from killing you. Both are lethal. Neither is quickly lethal without a CNS hit. Both have many instances of people being wounded with them, even fatally wounded, and not realizing they had been hit until hours later. You can afford to shoot a .22lr more so maybe you can get better with it, but IMHO the .25 is more reliable. You pay your money and you take your chances.

That's deceiving. If 22 is the most used then it will have the most effectiveness on paper. It can be done in reverse too. If one shot resulted in one kill from a 25acp one could say that the 25acp is 100% one shot stop.

As either caliber is unlikely to physically compel an assailant to stop, you will be dependent on psychology for a stop.

The fact that you have a gun, and the assailant sees you have a gun, the more likely they are to decide to stop. Size matters. A big gun will have more deterrent than a small gun. I've never seen a big .25.

If we are comparing similar size guns - a 22 mag the size of a .25 - I believe it will come down to flash/bang affect to achieve a stop. As I have never shot either, I don't know which would be louder/flashier. I would guess the little .22 mag, as it will have extra powder to burn beyond the short barrel.

Can anyone speak from experience on the comparative flash/bang from these two?

.22 magnum.

If nothing else, the noise will scare the bad guy away.

I used to own a Beretta .25 Jetfire, with the flip up barrel. It was a neat pistol, but the slide would eat a hole in the web of your shooting hand. The "flash/bang" from it was not too terrible, but back in the day there were few choices for ammo. I moved it around in the safe so much that i finally sold it to get it out of the way.

Now I own, and carry, one of the little NAA revolvers in .22 magnum. It's is very seldom the only weapon I have on me, but sometimes it is. I do know that the report from it is quite a bit louder than the .25 was, and I can actually hit with it better. However, they do take some practice to hit anything beyond say, 15'-20'. I can also tell you that in my "backyard water jug" testing, the magnum comes out on top of the .25 caliber. At least feel like I am armed when it's in my pocket. But usually there is a .38 or 9 mm around just for backup.

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In the past 5 years we have filled a quart jar with .22 that did not ignite, all with great rim crushes. Not one .25.

There ya' go.. and some extra cheese for the extra whine..

Gamecock!!! Never fired either?? Get in your vehicle and come to Horry County we'll fix that lack of experience. For what it's worth the .22 mag is louder. Please don't count on volume to save your life.

I have & carry a S&W 353 22mag.Before I got this talked to a Dr.that has had just about everything come his way...told me he had a guy killed with a 22mag.pistol....said when he opened him up he was all torn up inside!He said the 22mag is a "nasty:round! Didn't Bill Jordan like the 22mag.pistol??
Jim

Yep, looks like we got another caliber war going! Keep up the good work gang. I'm enjoying the **** out of this.

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Quando omni flunkus moritati.

I'm fine with either caliber (as my third gun).

I have a NAA 22Mag and 22LR cyl. To me its little more thana loud toy . I will carry my Beretta 950 . I can empty the Beretta By time you get off a couple of the 22 mags . That are noise and flash in these little pistols. The 25 is a winner in short barrel . NAA own site will show 22LR or mag doesn't start getting up to speed till 4" or more barrel. I never shot a person with my 25 .But did send a want to be robber running one night. He saw gun(25 Beretta) and ran .

25 in the gell has gone 16" meets FBI 12 to 18 inches and lot more than 22 from same size pistol. Make mine 25 I have 3 Beretta's and a Bauer in 25acp. Have 2 Beretta's in 22LR. I will carry the 25 but not the 22's .

Must be some reason 25 still popular after a 100 yrs
Buy a quality 25 and that will alone increase FPS over the cheap Sat. specials

Point of information - I have been reliably informed, but have not seen the x-ray data to prove it, that a .22 round hit inside the body cavity tends to ounce around and tear up a lot of tissue. Thus, the fact that .22s are deadly just for that reason alone. And the LEO/firearms expert who taught me these things a long time ago said that more people were killed with .22s each year than anything else. I don't know where the data is to prove that but he insisted it was true.

What I do know is that having a gun in capable hands is far more important than caliber. If you choose to carry a gun then you also have to choose to be reasonably adept at its use and be willing to use it.

Nobody likes to be shot so if you can cause an aggressor to cease and desist when he sees your weapon you've accomplished your task, a no-shot-stop.

Statistics are sometimes hard to come by. A gentlemen named Greg Ellifritz spent a considerable amount of time compiling some of these types of numbers and he published his data on line in 2011. Mr. Ellifritz is a police officer and instructor himself. His conclusion is:

An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power | Buckeye Firearms Association

(c) 2011 Greg Ellifritz and Buckeye Firearms Association

I carried a Beretta 950BS (aka Jetfire) for 20 years. The one thing I liked least about it was not caliber; it was being single action. It could be carried cocked and locked but I personally dislike that carry, especially in my pocket, so I routinely practiced drawing it out of various pockets and getting that hammer back. I also have an NAA 5 shot vest pocket revolver and that one is even harder to cock the hammer - so it was with great delight that I acquired a S&W M642, just as easy to carry, bigger caliber, fine, more importantly it's double action. Any gun is better than no gun, but any gun you can get into action fast and shoot well is the key to a successful defensive situation. So, .22 LR, .22 WMR, .25 ACP, it's not that big a deal in the overall scope of the data.

As for this:
I disagree. Those tiny guns might be obsolete for various reasons but, then again, a tiny package like that, a disappearing gun in the 21st century of mostly casual clothes and concealed carry, Precision Small Arms still makes them and they're gorgeous, not cheap, and have a definite place in the arsenal of concealed carry.

Home Base

Toy..

I have done tests 22Mag on gallons of water backed with plywood. Ran out of jugs.

5 ft. 2 water jugs with considerable hydashock and through the 3/8 plywood. Wanna play..??

Non sequitur. Unless the OP is an assassin.

Funny. It's not a non sequitur, however. A non sequitur is a conclusion or statement that does not logically follow from the previous argument or statement. The statement does logically follow - what it lacks is proof and I admit to a lack of proof. Therefore it is speculatio (if you like Latin) or, worse, notional or whimsical.

But, because this is friendly and educational, learn me this, Gamecock - what's OP stand for? I understand "assassin". You can PM me if you don't want to mess with the thread.

2006 posts and you don't know what OP stands for?

I can't help you.