Police: Man shoots, kills would-be carjacker outside store

Sorry for the tread drift


Government does not "Allow" you to carry.

The right to defend one's self and those around him/her is granted at birth.

Government can only "INFRINGE" on that basic Human right

I hope the guy is not charged but not sure how this will end for the guy who protected the female, I know where allowed to protect ourselves, and family but a total stranger where does this go?

I read about this in the morning Washington Post, buried in a couple of paragraphs inside the A section. I doubt we will see or hear anything in the electronic media b/c this is a good gun story.

Edit: Surprise; I just saw this story on Good Morning America and it was a very positive spin on the concept of ccw.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

Good question. I wonder about this too. How does one justify intervening into someone elses business? Don't think any one would question his motives, but is it legal?

I am amazed at how desensitized the public has become. I bet half a dozen people would make a cell phone video of the crime for the nightly news or Youtube and never think about helping.

If you were the one being car jacked or beaten, would you want somebody to come to your aid?



If I see someone getting beaten or in this case car jacked I do not worry if it is legal or not to go to their aid, it is the MORAL thing to do.

If I were to do nothing and learn this person was killed how can I possibly justify my inaction? How could I possibly live with myself?



Now as to Legal. That is a State by State issue.

In Florida the action is 100% supported by Florida Law

776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or
(2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.
History.—s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1188, ch. 97-102; s. 2, ch. 2005-27.

Car Jacking is a Forcible Felony

Legal in Arizona also. You may defend yourself, family or total strangers if need be.

I live in Ga we have the right to stand your ground law but i really thought it was just the person and or family.
Honestly i am not sure what i would do if seen such crime, i have been a victim and it sucks, just glad i was not harmed. I feel strongly on guys beating females so if i seen such i am sure i would act on it but also be calling 911

I had a CCW instructor in Ohio tell me "A good rule of thumb is if it is legal for the person you are aiding to use deadly force you're probably going to be alright."

The problem lies in how it starts. If I were to walk around a corner and see someone taking a beating I don't know if the guy losing provoked it. If he did and I used deadly force I may have just signed up for free lifetime room and board. In my opinion sometimes the moral thing is to call law enforcement and stay out of it. Unless you are certain what is going down.

colt saa - thanks for your post.

I live in Va not Fl.

I don't believe there are any cut and dry answers.

I am not nearly as physcially able as I was 30 years ago so I may think twice before entering a physical confrontation. If the carjacker was only after her vehicle would make a difference. If he was doing harm to her that would be a factor.

I'm not saying I wouldn't get involved, but there was no gun involved until the CC'er arrived. Not that I wouldn't want to help but lawyers don't always care about right or wrong. They want to win.

Is there a life and death situation? I'd say not yet. I keep hearing you can replace material things - cars, purse, wallets, etc. I question this situation from a life and death situation - I guarantee a good attorney will do the same and much more. He would do everything within his power to make me look like the criminal.

I read things like this and say "not necessarily". Truth of the matter is you may never know until you are put in that situation. My reply remains - "Maybe".

You can legally defend yourself with a gun if the situation includes these 3 elements | Second Call Defense

It is legal in every state to defend yourself or another person when their life, or great bodily harm, is being threatened and the danger is immediate.

As has been mentioned, the kicker is knowing the whole situation. If you saw it start from the beginning (how do you know when it began?) and you can actually do something without harming the other party, well...OK. Truth is, most of the time, unless you are directly involved, you won't know the whole situation.

Case in point:
As you come around the corner, you see a large man, at least 6.5' and 270lbs, beating on a 100lb woman. There is clearly a large disparity of force and it looks like the woman is going to lose. Do you shoot to protect her?

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Freedom isn't free.

What is he beating her with, sir?

Hypothetically
I would yell first while dialing 911 and informing the assailant of same.
If he continued the Aggravated Battery I would use whatever force is necessary to end the confrontation with the least loss of life

That may or may not include the discharge of a firearm.

.......... allowed... ? hmmmmmm

This is a good question, but does it matter? With that much disparity in force, wouldn't his hands be enough?

This is a dangerous course of action. Based on the information given, you don't know anything about these two. What if she was attacking him with a knife and he was just defending himself? What if he is an undercover policeman attempting to arrest a drug dealer ('cause everyone knows drug dealers are only males who never resist arrest )? What if...?

The point of this little exercise is simply to make you think. We all want to be the hero and rescue the damsel in distress. However, especially in this day, unless you know the whole situation, right from the start, it's probably not a good idea to jump in the middle of something.


Hypothetically or not, this is the right thing to do.

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Freedom isn't free.

If all fed and state gov'ts said, "Okay, not permits needed, carry whatever however you choose," I'd bet the larger majority of citizens still would not carry.

Absolutely wrong. You do not allow the person to be beaten, possibly to death, in front of you.

What knife? There is no knife mentioned in the scenario offered to us. You want to propose a different scenario for discussion fine do so.

An undercover Police Officer would identify himself when challenged by you at the start of this scenario.

from the government to exercise that right. The 2nd amendment clearly states "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." Plain as day...buying a permit is tacit approval that your "rights" are granted and controlled by a dictatorial government.

Situations like this are common, the outcome is all based on who you are, where you are and who the deceased is. If you're a 250 pound weight-lifter who shoots and kills someone approaching you with a ball bat you may be in trouble, whereas if you are a 90 pound, 80 year old woman in a wheel chair doing the shooting in the same situation your action will probably not be questioned.

There is no need to propose a different scenario. That is exactly the point of this one, we don't know all the details.

So people don't have to look it up, here's what we're talking about:
You've just come around the corner. If she has a knife, are you always going to be able to see it? Even if you see the knife, is she defending or attacking? Is he defending or attacking? If he says he's a police officer do you then just stop ('cause no one ever lied about being a policeman)? What if he is so focused on the situation at hand that he doesn't hear your challenge or isn't able to respond to it? What if they are married and you defeat the guy only to have the woman attack you ('cause no woman would ever defend a spouse that's beating her, right)?

Obviously this is a made up scenario, but it's not far from what happened in the OP. I'm not saying that taking action to stop the guy from beating the girl is wrong. I'm just saying that it may be dangerous because we may defend/shoot the wrong person.

It's easy on the internet to say we'd do this or that. I just want to make people think about other possibilities. The scenario I proposed is a no-win situation. This is how many things go on the street. Nothing is ever cut and dry.

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Freedom isn't free.

The Good Morning America piece quoted the police as saying the shooter wasn't charged and that they considered him a "good Samaritan".

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Retired Dep Sheriff & Armorer

Looking at the story the OP originally posted and the question about "Where does this go?".

The guy who got shot certainly seems to be a scumbag and this seems to have ended well. But another way this could have gone very wrong for the shooter is if the guy driving was an inexperienced repo-man who allowed adrenaline to take over and ultimately made bad decisions.

Every situation is different. A person who has people in their lives that count on them has to weigh jumping into a situation that they don't know all the facts with risking their loved ones need for them. Again sometimes the moral thing is to stay out of it and call law enforcement.

No the result of all your arguments are not to make people think, they are to make people DOUBT that doing the RIGHT thing is worth doing.

How can saving another human from great bodily harm ever be the wrong thing to do?

I do not fathom how anyone can say they would stand by and watch another human getting beaten, possible to death, and take no action because they are afraid they might get in trouble for it.

I didn't say it was the wrong thing to do. There just may be far reaching consequences.

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Freedom isn't free.

Seems it would be a bad day for him, repo guys are not allowed to beat on people, even if they are repoing somthing.

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John

If I don't know what is going on I am not jeopardizing the things I can do for my loved ones on a guess of how it started.

On our local news just this week a guy tried to break up a fight and of the three people involved he was the only one who ended up in the morgue.

Trouble could mean life time incarceration or death. I want none of either. This really shouldn't be that hard to fathom.

Can't disagree with that.

Would I be correct in presuming that you would never swear an oath to Serve and Protect the Citizens of your Community?

No I can not fathom doing nothing while someone incurs great bodily harm, just to avoid getting in personal trouble. Fortunately America has millions of men and women that can not fathom it either.

Are you speaking about being a LEO?

How could you possibly make that assumption?
The whole point of his argument is that he isn't a
police officer, therefore he doesn't have the authority
nor the protection from liability that an officer has.

I believe you spoke of a moral obligation. My highest
moral obligation is to my family. I'm not about to rush into
a confrontation without having
a real good grasp on what is really happening. I'm not saying I
would never intervene, but it would have to be a pretty
cut and dried scenario for me to do so.

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Georgia On My Mind

Commentary by Evan Marshall

Always a good read in this kind of discussion. Some pretty sobering stuff.

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Georgia On My Mind

Couldn't have said it better myself. I was awaiting a response from colt saa to confirm that is what he was talking about. But these are exactly the points I was going to make.

I will answer the question though. If my community needed LEOs, absolutely I would volunteer. Someone who wouldn't shouldn't be looked down on though. Not everyone has the temperament to carry a weapon and will freely admit it. I respect their honesty.

Comparing a LEO with a citizen isn't even apples and oranges. It's more like apples and bowling balls. Glad others see it that way too.