In the recent issue of American Rifleman (The official journal of the National Rifle Association) SGM (Ret) Kyle Lamb of Viking Tactics Inc. is talking about the AR for home defense. While I have a hard time disagreeing with him I still chose a S&W M&P9 Pro over an AR.

In one of his answers SGM (Ret) Kyle Lamb says about using a pistol for HD, that
This is exactly what I personally use. It's perfect for range use as well as when SHTF.

VTAC Brokos belt
5.11/Bladetech/VTAC thumbdrive holster
5.11/VTAC shotgun ammo pouch
Bianchi double magazine pouch



What can I say, I love VTAC products. It just works!

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Jorge

Haven't got my magazine yet but my entire home is 30 feet from end to end I just don't see a rifle of any type as the optimal home defense weapon

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Retired Career Security Guard

Understandable. Our house is a bit bigger but still, I choose a pistol. I feel more comfortable with it.

But I can see a SBR with suppressor to be very efficient and wouldn't mind having one

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Jorge

Our current house gun is a 9mm High Point carbine. Say what you will but it's reliable, everyone in the house shoots it well and with two spare mags clipped to the stock it has 30 rounds available. Besides, where we live it's most likely use is against a raccoon or coyote straying into the yard.

Reasonable can vary greatly depending on circumstances. I have at various times slept while wearing a shoulder or ankle holster.

These days I keep an old Argentine Mauser hanging in a handy spot. Should an elk try to eat me while I sleep, I am all set. It should also suffice for wolves, though they seem to have moved on as winter ended.

Home defense = 12 gauge shotgun.

But I do keep my SR9c on the night stand for back up.

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Molon Labe!

If I had to grab a rifle in the house, it would be one of the very short carbines made for 'urban' type fighting, maybe even a bullpup design. The Famas or H&K would be good and perhaps I would restrict that to a 9mm type to prevent over penetration.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

I have several 45 autos strategically placed around the house. One is within reach of my bed. mos of them have night sights; all of them should.

If you're just going to take a position and stay put then a long gun makes sense. But long guns require two hands which doesn't work real well when moving carrying a 2y/o or assisting someone, or opening doors and negotiating stairs inside a house.

I couldn't imagine shooting a 5.56/.223 indoors unless it was suppressed.

Love these discussions of best home defense weapons ,plenty of good ideas.

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Hue 68 noli me tangere

I prefer a revolver myself especially if I were to wake up groggy and needed to act quickly as they are easy enough to operate.
I had an AR under the bed for a long time but did put it back in the safe as I couldn't really see a need for one. I do have a shotgun there still but figure it more of a backup for my revolver or if I had to try and barricade myself in the bedroom.
I live in the country and a good distance from my neighbors. Still I do have concerns about penetrating the walls and doing harm elsewhere. I don't have so much concern about the .38 specials in my guns.

Home defense is one scenario when you really want a "one shot stopper". The range is close and even though you get a good solid hit(s) with a pistol or rifle unless you strike the central nervous system, the perp might still have a couple of seconds of life left in him to fire a round back at you. Its hard for me to imagine anyone being able to return fire, even one shot, with a load of 12 gauge buckshot in their chest.

I have both a 9mm bottom feeder, (legally reduced to a mag capacity of 10 rounds, due to progressive political thinking) and a nine shot Mossy very handy as problems up here could easily entail a bear.

To be frank I know a 223 will kill a bear if needed, but being I believe that stopping power is much more important than killing I trust the huge load of buck and slugs will do whatever needs doing.

I know who am I to argue with such an esteemed person as Kyle Lamb on a gun subject. I guess it comes from surviving close to 70 years and seeing a lot.

FWIW I do have a .223 SA with the legal mags but I will save those for other type scenarios!

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14 S&W Revs none with locks!

I agree with the 12 gauge folks. If I wake up to a possible home invasion or intruder at 3 AM and have seconds to respond, (which may or may not include enough time to find my glasses) just merely racking back the forearm on my Remington 870 pump loaded with buck shot should make any invaders sphincter pucker.

If forced to pull the trigger, I would feel much better aiming a shotgun in the perps general direction than having to try to find/see the sights of a 3 to 4 inch handgun or worse yet a rifle.

The Remington 870 is the original point and click interface.

PS: I have also removed the 30" full choke barrel used for trap shooting and replaced it with my rifled barrel used for deer hunting. Easier to maneuver in close quarters.

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James Redfield
LM #497

Inside the home and personal defense I rely on a handgun, if the need were to arise inside it would be a 12ga shotgun!
An AR or AK I would save for some sort of mass invasion ?

A single point sling is excellent for this.

I know everyone is looking at speed and what a traditional rifle round can do but it's a little counter intuitive.

In fact most small fast moving rounds like the 223 will fragment faster on less material then a HP pistol round or shotgun 00 pellet. In a miss HP tend to get plugged with debris and act as a fmj. And slower moving rounds penetrate more. Where as it has been shown that even a fmj 223 fragments on something as thin as plywood. The Winchester PDX1 is optimized for massive and rapid energy deposit.

I live in a small apartment. A long gun is the LAST thing I'd use for self-defense here. I couldn't even get out of the bedroom without banging into something.

As long as I'm here, my primary defense will be a handgun of some sort. Right now, that's a Glock 19.

I keep a S&W AR15 under the bed with 4 magazines. No frills and no adds. . .it's short and light and inexpensive. I figure that when the SHTF I'm going to have to leave the house (after I've cleared it) and clean out the yard.

Well, my home D pistol is bigger than yours!
20140130_111347_LLS by Slick_Rick77, on Flickr

To each their own,

Well, you'd better not imagine shooting anything else, then. Even a .22 short indoors without hearing protection will damage your hearing. But in the event you must shoot, which would you rather have -- unimpaired hearing, or your life? I am not by any means counselling against hearing protection, but realistically many if not most home defense scenarios will not allow time for gathering up and putting on auxiliary equipment, and a suppressor is an expensive, and in some locales illegal, option for homeowners. Face it -- in multiple ways, using a gun for home defense will not be a pleasant experience.

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Pisgah

Agreed, but it sure beats the alternative.....:

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James Redfield
LM #497

Got me thinking, anyone here ever have to fire a shot in a home defense situation?
I haven't but I must confess to test firing a Remington bolt action .22 into a pile of lumber in my basement once or twice.

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Back to back World War Champs.

Being in stairwells, closets & small rooms may present a problem if one has to quickly wield a rifle around. Add to that the velocity of rifle rounds pose the possibility of penetrating adjoining rooms, apartments and even homes, possibly maiming/ killing those inhabitants.
I prefer a handgun in .40,.44 Sp, .45 Colt or.45 caliber.

All of which have more penetration than a 223/5.56 round.

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Bob | KM4DEO
Sport | Glock 22

And a lot less pleasent of an experience for you and your family if you let a rifle round loose indoors. Sure when it comes down to it we will do what is necessary to survive, no matter the cost, but using my Ar for self defense isn't one of those things I find necessary.

Clint Smith of Thunder Ranch says to use your handgun to fight your way to your long gun. I believe that his point is that it's easier to keep a handgun "handy" for a home emergency, and it will suffice until you can get to your heavy duty weaponry. Since I also read this article I am not surprised to see comments on the Forum about it. Let's expand the concept using my 1100 square foot home as a model.

Where in the Sam Hill am I supposed to put a rifle that is both handy and unobtrusive? Okay, any closet will hide that rifle. But even while I am in my bed the closet closest to me is a couple of feet away. If I am in bed and beset upon by malefactors, or said miscreants have invaded my abode but have not yet reached my room, I want a gun NOW! Assuming I have gone from sleep to high alert in a few seconds (it can and will happen that way; it doesn't take much to go from asleep to red alert), reaching down to bring a rifle into play, or a shotgun, will be difficult. Reaching for an easy to operate S&W 686+ in order to commence defensive procedures makes far more sense to me.

I cannot gainsay the use of the AR-15 in .223 for home defense but as a first line weapon it doesn't work for me. I want rounds headed down range NOW and with that M686 I can make that happen. From there I can progress to the loaded rifle and shotgun in my closet. I am not a trained Special Operations combat veteran like SGM (Ret) Kyle Lamb - I need to use what works for me, despite any military training that I might have.

Just FYI, the rifle is a Winchester M1894 lever gun in .44 Magnum, loaded with .44 Special cartridges. I have fired many rounds from a lever gun in cowboy action competition; I am perfectly content to use it to defend my home. The shotgun is an Ithaca M37 12 gauge pump. I'm happy to use it as well; it works like my M1897 Winchester competition shotgun.

Again, I have no argument with the AR-15 in 5.56 NATO chambering and I happen to have one similar to the author's but without the red dot sight. It's just not my personal first choice so I leave it locked up.

And, with apologies to anyone who does this, this set up make NO sense to me:

Reasonable for whom? In what scenario? I have bo problem with that set up, nice picture above from JJEH, but when I'm sleeping and awake with a start, the adrenaline is pumping, and I leap out of bed with my revolver in my hands, at what point do I have time to strap on that kind of gear? Nice set up for the range or for an operational patrol, good for a bivouac in the desert combat zone, too, but for a civilian in his sleepytime clothes I don't think so.

Not sure about that, especially if I handload.

In the article Mr. Lamb clearly states his choice is based upon his extensive familiarity with the AR platform and preference for 30 rd. mags.

I reach for one of my revolvers first in a bedroom wake up scenario. I can bring a wheel gun into play very quickly and I am not worried about accuracy in bedroom distances. My new AR 15 sport has replaced my Remington 870 for first backup. I love shotguns but if the shtf 30 rounds of ouch on my side is appreciated.

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JT

It is. Small, light, Fast moving rounds like the 223 tend to fragment faster and on less material.

Depends on how you live and where you live. I don't see a reason to stick the AR in the closest. It can just as easily be by my bed

That's for sure. It wouldn't be much fun - but it would beat being dead. I believe I will take my chances with a low-pressure, low-volume pistol round like a .45 Auto and hope only to use the M4-type carbine outdoors - with hearing protection.

Keep pulling the trigger.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

my house gun is a G41 with Arredondo mag ext. for a total of 17 rounds of .45. it also has an insite x3 on it. second mag, flashlight, and peltor muffs with batts for enhanced hearing in same drawer. i do have an ar pistol that can be gotten if all else has failed... but i am comfortable with my G41 as the primary.

Bigger, but less legal, bro. Unless you've got that thing registered as an SBR, an AR pistol with forward "pistol grip" is a big no-no with BATFE. Fortunately, it comes off easily...

My "home defense gun" depends on where I am in my house when something bad happens. If I am in bed, I have a Glock 30S with 13 round (Glock 21) magazine. If I am downstairs (first floor), I have a Sig P229 if I am near the back of my house, and a pistol grip Mossberg 500 (12 gauge) if I am near the front of my house.

I like the idea of having a belt with holster near your bed in case you have to holster your weapon. I might have to try that. It makes a lot of sense.

If you watch the video about water/depth penetration of ammo ...... it's similar. Low pressure slow rounds go deeper. Fast, high pressure rounds often disintegrate on impact, some barely penetrate the surface

I am a handgun guy, if I hunted it would be a handgun. I have owned very few long guns. Keep a holster and mags handy.

First and second line of defense at my house.....The handgun comes into play as a last resort.

My home defense is a .45 w/night sights in a small safe on the dresser. The key is in the safe at night with my glasses and flashlight on top. Have grandkids, and 20 something daughters and their friends around the house at all different times. The last thing I am going to do is wake up groggy and shoot someone who belongs there. I would not want my pistol where I could grab it before my head cleared. I figure the risk of an intruder is less than a family disaster from too quick a reaction when roused from a deep sleep.

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JOSHUA 1:9

Nice rig. But in the article, Kyle was talking about for home defense purposes. I see no reason to "suit up" like that in a home defense situation.

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Stay protected my friends.

Someone trained to the level Kyle has been can do all that with an AR (or almost any gun), but the rest of us are probably best served with something else.

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Stay protected my friends.

Bro, that's a legal firearm, as it is over 26" OAL. It would only be an SBR if it had a stock. As long as it is not concealed on the person it is not an AOW. Technically it's not considered a pistol.

Fortunately I read a lot of ATF mumbo jumbo before I built it.

These guys build a whole range of guns in such a configuration as factory options:
PRODUCTS
Click on any one to get the details.

I got flamed a lot on AR15.COM as I was the first on the site to build one. They aren't the most popular configuration but I guess you've gotta be in the know to know, you know?

If it's all you have, but the 223 round is far from ideal for HD. If one is intent on using the AR platform for HD purposes, there are better rounds like the 9mm. There ya go, the perfect excuse to buy another upper.

Less power, less effectiveness, and more penetration through building materials is better how?

I have three of those, one smaller, one bigger...much bigger. They will keep any intruder occupied trying to jump and play with them as I leisurely arm myself. I have to aim upper chest and above because I don't want to hit one of them.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

To each his own (obviously!) but Lamb makes a good case for his side. One of the better pieces of writing I've seen in a while.

For my part I'm just glad to live in a country where we can have this discussion and then act on it.

Lets keep it that way.

I UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT OF VIEW, AND I SHARE IT---IN THE INSTANCE OF A HOME INVASION….

THE VALUE OF AN AR IS REALIZED WHEN YOU ARE DEFENDING YOUR HOME / PROPERTY / BUSINESS FROM RIOTERS OR MARAUDING GANGS IN A SHTF SCENARIO---AS THE KOREAN SHOPKEEPERS DID DURING ONE OF THE RIOTS. THERE IS NO REASON WHY YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE AN AR AND A HANDGUN IN YOUR ARSENAL. USE THE WEAPON THAT FITS THE TACTICAL SITUATION…..

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'Nam 1968-69.DAV,VFW,NRA Inst.

G21 with Veridian light laser.