Hey all,

I'm just a bit curious about this and thought I'd ask.

For those of you that almost exclusively carry a J-Frame, have you ever had the thought or feeling that 5 rounds might not be enough?

I know that the overwhelming majority of encounters where guns are used the number of rounds fired isn't very many, probably not higher than 5. I've got some reading to do on that subject though so I might get a better handle on it soon.

These days these criminals run in packs. You know what I mean? My friend that runs a convenience store that I go in all the time was robbed by 3 and all had pistols. The lead guy held him on the floor with the barrel to his head behind his ear. Kicked him around a few times too while he had him down there.

Thoughts.

Thanks

Nalajr

no, but I do carrry 2 speed strips

I don't think anyone can predict how many rounds they might need. I don't think any "encounter" is the same. Life in general is unpredictable enough. All you can do is have confidence in what you are carrying. The S&W 442, and 642 are still selling well for S&W. So there must be a lot of people that believe "five is enough." But, who knows.....

This is discussed quite frequently on here. 5 is better than none. Is 8 enough for three attackers? Do you want to change your wardrobe to conceal a full-size M&P, or Glock 17?

I mostly carry a 9mm with 9 rounds on board, and a spare 8-rd mag. Sometimes a j-frame fits the bill better. When trouble starts, I'll be trying to run from, not toward the trouble.

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Because of the metric system?

I carry a J snubby in my left pocket, I'm a lefty, and a speed strip in the little watch pocket on the right. I am comfortable with this combination. Fortunately, I have only had to expose the butt end of the snubby one time during a threatening encounter.

5 is better than 0...

I believe the FBI statistics that show that the large percentage of encounters end well under 5 rounds fired, and I believe the unposted statistics that MOST defensive situations end without even one shot fired, just pulling a weapon puts the attacker on the run.

That said, I am very comfortable with 5 rounds when I carry a J-frame, and I don't even carry extra ammo.

On the other hand... I don't "intentionally" limit myself to just 5 rounds, I only do that when where I'm going "shouldn't" merit carrying more than that.
However, when I am dressed to where I can conceal heavier, then I go heavier, and when I go to a venue that has a little more flavor of potential group attack, then I go heavier as well.
In those situations, I have several options that I will take with a minimum of 10+1 and up to 19 rounds.

Maybe some day as things degrade in my city and in the country, I will start carrying spare ammo or magazines, but right now, I never do. After all, I have chosen to carry only "defensively", and if I ever have to draw and/or fire my carry weapon, it will only be to get me and my loved ones the hell out of that situation, not to be "in it to win it".
I'll be happy to get "out of it to survive it".

Now after all those words, I have to admit one exception to the above, and that is in a large crowd that has a slightly better chance of being in danger, and that is at church.
On Sunday, wearing a sport coat allows me to carry a 9mm 1911 (big gun that's good for longer range accurate shots) in 10+1 configuration, and two more 10-round mags further along on my belt.
Other than that one situation, I generally consider 5 rounds more than enough.
And one more thing... where I live, if you look at a number of people in a public area, you are bound to figure that 20% of them are carrying just like you are.
No, I don't count on any help, but statistically, help "could" be carrying their own defensive weapon that could conceivably add to my own defensive scenario. That actually happened at a small take-out restaurant near my home.
Two thugs came in the back door to rob the place and it turned out that not just one of the two people waiting up front for take-out were armed, but BOTH of them (and no, neither armed customer knew each other nor knew the other was armed until weapons were drawn).
One thug was shot and held for police while the other one ran out the back and was caught later. Funny story no matter how you look at it.

Just carry two for a New York reload.

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I either carry a 442 or a 6-rnd, single stack 9mm semi, every day. Honestly, I never worry about 5 (or 6) not being enough. I occasionally carry one reload, but probably less than 50 % of the time.

I strongly believe in the concept that, if one can't do the job with 5 (or 6) rounds (in an SD situation)....then 15 or 20 ain't gonna do it, either. There is no such thing as an "average SD situation", so I am not counting on any particular scenario. I think people on the internet go way too far in postulating every possible scenario, in order to make the case for their particular choices.

I will only say that I do what works for me. That includes, as my PRIMARY SD strategy, situation awareness and careful avoidance of (potential) threat situations. Add to that lots of PRACTICE with my chosen carry/ SD weapons....including specific combat practice. Finally, my carry/ SD weapon is my LAST line of defense, but one with which I am ALWAYS ready. ALWAYS. (Except perhaps, when I am asleep.) Added together, that all makes for, I think, a solid SD. As such, 5 or 6 rounds is enough for me.

If confronted with an armed "gang", especially if more than about two of them were armed with firearms......and if they are determined.... one guy with his carry gun has already lost. You aren't going to "Rambo" your way out of something like that. Fortunately, that sort of scenario is rare - regardless of what many of the "internet cowboys" say. (NO offense to anyone specific - that term is only intended as a basic generalization.)

The absolute PRIMARY, first and most important thing is to stay OUT of potential SD situations. I train for that every day, everywhere I go - by sizing up the overall from a distance, then acting accordingly. My head is always on a swivel and I NEVER hesitate to change course, or leave altogether, if I don't like the potential SD ramifications. Train yourself enough for this and it simply becomes second nature.

If I were a LEO (active) then yes I would feel totally outgunned carrying a 5 shot J Frame as a primary SD weapon. As a civilian who does not fight crime as a job I feel it is something I can always carry comfortably and concealed and it won't be left home because it's too heavy or too bulky. 5 with you sure beats 13 at home in your safe. It's always a compromise and one must weigh all the options and considerations. A 5 shot J is also extremely reliable and packs one of the best size/weight/effectiveness ratios I can think of.

If one could stick a 13 round .45 or 9mm in the same size & weight package and make it just as reliable then I suppose it would be a better choice but to date that just hasn't happened.

There are fellas here that will "dress around the gun" which is not for me. I don't want to have to wear inappropriate clothing to conceal a big heavy gun in 95º temperatures and sweat all day. With the 2" J I can wear anything I want and still have it on me. While 5 shots is certainly not the optimum, according to stats most gun fights end in well under 5 shots so I feel reasonably prepared.

Five is enough for me. Chances of getting into a multi round shoot out are as good as winning the lotto twice in a row, I carry my M60 and an old S&W drop pouch on my belt out of habit.

I carry a 5 shot J frame just about everywhere these days. If for some reason I can not solve my problem with strong language, bad breath, assertive posture, and downright curmudgeonly attitude, and it comes down to smokeless powder, then we may have an entirely different situation.

Nobody knows that I carry, and I sure don't use that as a threat towards anyone. The rapid presentation and shots would be a BIG surprise to anyone trying to do myself or my family harm.

Now, to your five rounds question....I am more likely to become involved in a one-on-one confrontation than to insert myself into a situation with multiple adversaries.....both of my feet and legs still work and I know how to use them. If there is no retreat or escape then my standard theory of escalation of force shall apply (assuming that we have passed into the stage where deadly force is justified, needed/warranted ect) The J frame comes out - 5 shots are expended in a judicious and accurate manner, the very sharp and somewhat dirty knife comes out directed for major arterial pathways and/or eyes, failing that - I have the one weapon that has accounted for more deaths than all of the wars fought in recorded history - fossil fueled, combustion engine powered, motor vehicle - engage the four wheel drive and accelerate to ramming speed - repeat as needed.

Now, most of that was just for fun....I do have a shotgun and another handgun in every vehicle that I own. I make every effort to avoid bad places and bad people (been there, done that - not going back). If the J frame won't cover the bases, then my ticket might get punched, but I can look St Peter in the eyes and tell him that it was one heck of a ride up to this point

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On the Oak Savannah

"Don't insult 6 men when you are carrying a 5 shooter"

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That's what I say, too.

I don't "usually" carry just a J- frame, but when the temperature is over 100 degrees Fahrenheit, the combination of effective and comfortable concealment plus ready access becomes a genuine problem, since "cover garments" of any sort are glaringly out of place in dress casual clothing, and sometimes an Airweight, AirLite or LCR in a pocket holster or groin holster are the best options.

A gun, any gun, is better than no gun, and the .38 Special "snubby" is at least adequate armament.

Nope

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John

Like Macinaw, above, I am a big fan of the New York Reload. My usual carry is a Model 638-1 and a Model 38-0 carried in DeSantis Nemesis holsters. I almost exclusively pocket carry, and I also carry an 8 round speed strip in a small pouch on my belt. About the only time I'll carry just a 5-shot J-frame is when I'm carrying a long gun - as in hunting.

Regards,

Dave

Then obviously you think 5 is not enough.

Don't pull the trigger unless you know for
certain that it is an A hit. J frame good for 5
bad guys.

If 5 won't solve the problem, I doubt 6 will.

Same can be said for 1 or 2. Carry a Derringer

I carry a 5 shot daily. It is a back up to the 15 round H&K VP9 that is my primary pistol. You are not going to get to pick your fight, and I am paranoid.
With that said,mi have no problem taking a five shot to the mailbox. It is simply rare for me to ever carry a J frame as a primary. It is literally for the times when I don't need a gun.
With all that said,mi hope I can live in a place at some point in life where I would feel totally comfortable with a J frame or Colt D frame as a my primary. I am just not there yet. The last off duty encounter I was in was an attempted robbery by a 5 man Crip robbery crew. This was taking my wife's SUV to the drive through car wash in a nice area. You don't get to pick the encounter and I was glad I had a Glock 17 instead of a J frame.

Funny you mention this...

I can only pocket carry. Shorts and a t-shirt, so a j-frame rides with me always.

Finally got my wife to the range. Of course, everyone was shooting plastic. 15-17 rounds, 2-3 second pause, 15-17 again etc. then, my wife tries our full size M&P40 LE trade-in. Surprisingly, she shoots and handles it well. Heck, I shot it well. 200 rounds of mixed ammo and it ate everything.

I'm old school. Never a fan of anything without wood and steel. My wife can't budge the slide on most 1911s. The M&P was no problem and I was impressed.

So, I still only carry a j-frame. But, more and more, I realize we're living in a hi-cap world. If I could conceal it, the M&P (maybe a Shield) would be primary with the j-frame as a BUG.

Just my opinion.

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Best Regards,
Mark

FWIW. I was prey to the influence of many forum members (NOT on here, lest I offend... prematurely ) in feeling I needed to carry at LEAST a 15-round 9mm plus 2 spare mags at all times.

Feh. Thankfully grew out of that stage mentally.

I don't live in a high-crime area, I don't frequent bad places to be, and I'm looking for a way to AVOID fights, not get in them.

So, went from a G19 with 2 spare mags and 3 knives stashed about my person down to a J-frame, 2 speed strips, and 1 knife.

'Cause.

That being said, NO WAY I'd carry a semi-auto without at least one spare mag, given that "bottom feeders" tend to malfunction most due to mag/ammo problems. A spare mag for one of them only makes sense, high enough round count on board or not.

Running a store, I'd refer to that watchmaker who was involved in numerous shootouts w/ multiple robbers. He kept a slew of handguns placed within reach under the counter.
When I'm working, (in U.S.)my j is a backup to a CZ 75. Down south I have to rely on my partner who's licensed to carry .
Just "walking around", my 37 and 38, one pocket, one IWB.

Stay safe.

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Halfway and one more step

If I haven't solved my problem with 5... the probability that 2 or 3 more will solve it is pretty low in my estimation. 340PD for me.

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Randy
Provenance nerd

With all due respect to the above poster, this post is a load of ****.

I know for a fact that too often, 5 rounds isn't enough. I sometimes carry a J frame, but and a couple of reloads is the bare minimum. That is my "no gun" loadout. Pressure washing dad's deck the other day in shorts and a T shirt, that's when that kind of loadout becomes a comfortable norm. Usually, I have a Glock 26 with 12 rounds on board, and a 17 round spare magazine.

Dirtbags travel in packs. I generally consider 5 rounds from a .38 enough to handle one, and MAYBE 2 opponents before it's time for a reload or other means of defense.

In the analysis of bad guy attacks/robberies it usually seems that the miscreants beat feet as soon as possible (if still able) when unexpected lead starts flying. So no, I don't think five rounds is too little in most cases. Having said that, I'm thinking of adding my LCRx inside waistband to my normal Airweight pocket carry.

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Vet, gun owner, liberal

You have to carry FOUR if you want to reload the New York reload.

No charge- this is free today.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Decker has the stats right, but Chief38 is on the mark about where the priorities should be.

I posted something lengthy here (or maybe on another forum) about the FBI uniform crime report data on law enforcement officers killed and assaulted, the weapons used and the ranges involved, as well as the FBI stats indicating most of their agent involved shootouts (which are probably more relevant than overall LEO stats due to plain versus uniformed differences) where 70% of the shoots took place at a range of 3 yards or less, with fewer than 5 rounds expended.


I won't get into that again other than to just point out that the vast majority of the time, self defense shoots involve one assailant, are over in under 5 seconds at ranges under 5 yards involving less than five rounds fired in self defense. There are exceptions of course, but those exceptions are much more likely to happen with LEOs who have jobs that require them to go looking for trouble in dark and scary places, apprehend people, etc. As an armed citizen your fist line of defense is to recognize problems before they start and avoid the situation, by either choosing a better route, or if you have no other options by establishing eye contact and letting the that know you see him. Most of the time, that's enough to divert them toward an easier target. The end result is that the percentage of single assailant encounters is probably closer to 90-95% for armed citizens.

And as noted by someone above, most of the time, just producing a firearm stops the assailant in his tracks. That's one of the facts that actually works against the concealed carry camp when it comes to media and statistics as the anti-gun camp will ignore the methodological issues related to the sample being referenced. They will demonstrate the very low number of situations where a concealed carry permit holder actually fired in self defense, being totally unaware of, or just totally ignoring all the reported and unreported instances where an assault was averted when the firearm was either drawn or just made known to the assailant. That is however, the best possible outcome from an armed citizen faced with an imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury and it's also the most common outcome.

----

Now...you can certainly gear up for post apocalyptic, multiple assailant, terrorists invading the mall kinds of scenarios and go forth every day with a 15+1 high capacity semi-auto and 2 spare mags, confident that you'll (just barely) stave off certain defeat with 46 rounds available.

But on the other hand, you'll be carrying around 2.5 pounds of handgun and another 2 pounds of spare magazines, along with all the other every day carry paraphernalia the chronically over-prepared feel the need to bring along (tactical light, at least 2 knives, trauma kit, signal mirror, secret decoder ring, etc).

Where that all falls apart is when the SWMBO (She Who Must Be Obeyed) is pregnant and informs you of the immediate need to get up and go down to the local stab and grab for some Ben and Jerry's ice cream after you've been home log enough to more or less settle in. You'll be less inclined to carry all that stuff until it's time to go to bed, and once having taken it all of, you'll be less inclined to put it back on just for a quick trip for ice cream

Over time, you'll find the number of times you leave home without it increases, either due to a desire not to have to dress around it, or due to a sore back from trying to carry it around all day. Sooner or later you downsize to a much more sustainable level of EDC. I recommend you just save yourself the trouble and jump to that point now.

The other downside of excessive EDC is that you can make those guys from 200 yards away as they have 1) an unseasonably warm cover garment, 2) overly loose fitting clothing, and 3) an "instructor belt" that absolutely no one actually wears unless they are packing, or wanting to look like an operator. Dress like that and you're just as much a target as someone doing open carry.

-----

I'm personally very happy with an easily concealed under normal clothing J-frame that I put on in the morning when I get up and then forget about until I get undressed to go to bed in the evening.

Even though ever having to use it will be a very small probability event in the first place (particularly if you have good SA and some common sense), and that encountering multiple assailants is a very small probability on top of the already small probability, I'll still usually add a speed loader to add another 5 rounds. It's light, easy to carry and with a slip over carrier, it's also low profile.

Yea. Aimed fire wins fights ,not lead in the air .

Jake

My 36 gets carried with two speed loaders as well! My Glock 27and my LCP both get carried with one extra mag.
I figure for personal protection that should see me through.

What I'm about to say proves nothing. Each of us needs to be comfortable with our own choice, for our own reasons. I was a very active LEO for many years prior to the time when departments began transitioning to semi auto service weapons. In that time, I learned that one can never ever tell what the circumstances may be when a weapon is needed. I also learned that in the great majority of circumstances, one had to depend on whatever weapon one could reach out and touch immediately. There were times when a potential situation could be recognized before I left my howl car and which could need something other than what was on my belt. I had a shotgun and a rifle at hand in the car, and if the circumstances indicated, I left the car with one or the other of those. But if I had no indication I "needed" the rifle or the shotgun, then I had at hand my service revolver for the most part. I lived my life depending on six rounds, plus the twelve extras carried in the loop loader that was dictated as part of my uniform gear. I could reload twice under those circumstances, and because of hours of practice, I could do that about as quickly as it could be done.

I sometimes also carried a five shot revolver in a coat pocket during cold weather when a coat was indicated, and I approached many vehicles with my hand on that snubby without ever exposing it. If all appeared "normal" after reaching the vehicle and making contact with the occupants, then I removed my hand from the pocket and continued with business. That is a different situation compared to what we who carry concealed must deal with. There are some similarities such as keeping our eyes and ears open at all times to recognize potentially dangerous situations. In the concealed carry mode today, if I recognize such a situation in time, I can usually remove myself from it and avoid the confrontation. But if I am not paying attention, I can walk in beyond the point of no return. As a working LEO, I had to approach those vehicles, alone I might add and mostly miles away from any backup, but today, I have a choice most of the time about where and when I go. The person carrying the gun and their state of alertness and awareness is far more important than the number of rounds available for immediate use.

I can say that in all those years, I was fortunate never to need to reload to finish a situation where I did not have cover and time to do so. I always replaced fired rounds as soon as it was safe to do so in case something should change after the initial confrontation. No sense having a partially loaded firearm if you can have a fully loaded one. So today, I carry at least one reload for whatever I'm carrying, sometimes two.

Nothing is guaranteed. If we knew we were going to need 50 rounds of ammo to finish a situation where we were going, why on earth would we go there? So we make our best guess about what we might get by with in the majority of encounters. Statistical historical data indicates that in the very large majority of the time, five or six shots, correctly and effectively applied, will suffice to provide the protection we need when we are out and about. Being prepared and supplied for the most likely scenarios is about the best we can do. My preparations for an invasion of my home or an attack on my vehicle while I and my family are still inside is much different than what I can reasonably and comfortably prepare for when I am out in public with only what I have on my person at hand.

Extra ammo is always good, but if it is not within immediate reach, it's not nearly as much good. Getting back to where the extra ammo is stored or carried takes time, but carrying an ammo can of ammo around is pretty difficult to do even if you aren't worried about advertising that fact.

We all know rounds fired that don't hit the intended target aren't very effective. Whatever you carry, you must be ready and willing to use it and be able to use it effectively while under great stress. I can tell you that when some one points a gun at you, especially unexpectedly, and maybe fires it at you, you will have an adrenalin dump beyond belief. And you'll be lucky to be able to perform any activity well. Or maybe you will just freeze and lock up. Until it happens, none of us know exactly what our response will be or how well we will be able to perform it. And the only way you really get practice and experience with that situation is to be in them, more than once! NOT something one volunteers to do!!

I have complete confidence in five rounds if that's all I've got at hand. Six is good. Nothing wrong at all with having seven or eight or even thirteen. But having more only works if you can comfortably and easily carry them and have immediate access to them, and fire the weapon that carries them well enough to bring and end to the confrontation. Carrying all day long while wearing an LEO uniform and gun belt is entirely different from carrying concealed in reasonably comfortable clothing normally worn in high heat (and humidity) or circumstances require wearing of certain styles of clothing to attend certain kinds of events. That means that sometimes one can carry more, and occasionally, one must carry less (gun and ammo!) if you choose to attend or be there. My greatest time of concern was in serious cold weather when a heavy coat was needed and which covered or complicated my access to my service revolver. Hence, the snubby in an exterior pocket!

Having any weapon beats having nothing. Being able to effectively use the weapon you choose to have at hand is even more important, along with being ready and willing to use it when and if the need arises. When you carry every day, all day long, it's easy to forget about what you carry. You take it for granted if you are not very careful. That's dangerous.

I've said all this to tell you that for me personally, I have never felt unprepared with five, and never have felt that I was significantly better off with six. I always felt more at ease with my hand on five in my pocket than with six that was hindered by my heavy winter coat. And yes, I felt better knowing that I had a backup at hand that was quicker to get into action than a reload could be done. I always have a backup in my vehicle, but I am not always in or near my vehicle. Even if I'm standing outside it with the doors closed, that backup is pretty far away!! I dunno if these thoughts help anyone, but I believe they are worthy of thought and consideration as YOU make YOUR OWN choice about what you believe will give you the kind of protection you need if you decide to carry a firearm for personal protection. I say this, if you carry a weapon, carry one all the time, not just when you think you might need one. It's worthless if it cannot be reached and touched without moving your feet!!!!!!!!!!!!

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So long ... Ken

How many shots have you fired in the past?

I have been carrying concealed since 1992 when I was stationed in Florida. So that's 23 years between Arizona, Texas, and Florida.

In that time I have carried in order:

Browning Hi- Power 9mm
Glock 27 .40
Springfield 1911
Glock 17 9mm
Glock 29 SF 10mm

Since about 2008 I got sick of carrying bulky firearms and magazines.

I mostly carry either a Charter Bulldog .44, Colt Cobra .38, Ruger LCR 357, Beretta Nano 9mm or Keltec P3AT 380. ( and a few other misc ones I tried and got rid of) All Lightweight.

In that 23 years of concealed carry, I have never had to draw and or fire my firearm.

I did however need to use my house gun around 93ish, the Browning HP at the time, to stop a home break in by two misguided south floridians whose lives apparently matter more than mine lately. I fired a total of one shot. They found the bullet later sitting in the rib cage of youth #1 who on pure adrenaline made it three blocks from where I lived. Youth #2 disappeared into the concrete jungle.

If I was on duty, where I had to go into the danger every day, you bet I would carry a hicap such as a Glock 17.

But as a civilian I practice certain things and it keeps me pretty clear of trouble. I wrote about it here:

https://thedesertsedge.wordpress.com...s-lightweight/

The panic lately has been ISIS, active shooters, oh my god!! Honestly you have a better chance of getting attacked by a dog or a misguided youth. Or dying on the way to work in your car. I won't live my life by fear. That's what they want. I will probably get hit by lightning first.


When I am rural (where I live) I always have a rifle in the truck with me. Especially when I am on my second property which is way out in the boonies. Why? I live in rural Arizona, you just never know what meth lab, drug deal, coyote, or other miscreant you are going to run into down the next wash or over the next hill thanks to the lax border policies. Now the armed lookouts are operating as far in as 100miles.... that's the official word I bet it's more. A lot of people on the run end up in tents or RV's out in the desert here because contact with LEO is rare. The desert is a perfect place to hideout. A rifle is much better than a handgun in those situations. I have had my encounters with some shady people in the desert that made the hair on the back of my neck stand up. I am more worried about them than ISIS or active shooters off their prozac. Glad I had a rifle with me just in case. Thankfully I never had to use it, but now with the new magazine capacity laws, I can do some yote hunting as an added bonus with my self defense rifle without having to carry a lo-cap.

So in my opinion, if you practice and train with your 5. Are proficient, not only at the static range punching paper, but also one handed on the move then I think you are as dangerous if not more dangerous than the guy who carries a hicap and practices maybe four times a year two handed and stationary. You are never too old to take a force on force class or a low light defensive pistol class that incorporates movement. My dad took them with me from time to time before he passed. He was 70 when he took his last one.

With a J frame, it's not the 5 that bothers me, it's the practical accuracy while in a hurry. My 2" 15 is so much faster & better than lesser guns that it takes some discomfort and perceived lack of threat to get it away from me. A 12, or a SB 37 is definitely slower and less accurate for an aimed shot, at least for me. A 642 is worse. Yet all of them are acceptable for very immediate personal defense against a close target. It's the possible need for a rapidly aimed shot that worries me. After that, Jetloaders or a second gun may do.

I suppose a BHP would be better, but a 15 is easier to carry and to handle.

The key to carrying a J frame, is to live a J frame lifestyle (don't do stupid things, hang out with stupid people or go to stupid places) is a big start. If you live a smart lifestyle built around threat and avoidance of typical target locations, you can get away with the "snubby lifestyle". You also need to have the ability to up gun to multi-opponent guns and true counter-robbery tools when you are outside your bubble that you have control over.

I agree to an extent. I find a steel framed Model 36 or 60 to be comfortable to shoot with a good set of grips (I prefer Hogue Monogrips) even in .357 mag with the Model 60.

In contrast I have no use at all for lightweight J-frames. They are great to carry, but not so great to shoot. The extra 6-7 oz the step frames add does not at the end of the make them noticeably harder to carry, and is more than offset by their improved shoot-ability.

I also practice shooting at 25 yards as well as 5 yards. A steel j-frame will give you one hole groups at 5 yards and the sights will still shoot close to point of aim at 25 yards, where you can expect a 3-4" group even with the short sight radius.

If you are doing stupid things, hanging out with stupid people and going to stupid places that pretty much sums it up,
YOU'RE STUPID and a J-frame won't change that.

"J-frame lifestyle......" I like it.

On my person I carried a Beretta Model 950BS in .25 ACP for twenty years. I often had a K frame in my car but I didn't carry revolvers because that little mousegun went everywhere, totally hidden. I KNEW it was a mousegun with 6 or 7 rounds, I KNEW it lacked the capability of a larger gun but it fit my lifestyle - and concealed carry wasn't legal and I did it anyway. (I know, HORRORS!!!! Who would do that?!?!) Then the world changed......

CHL became legal, I started wearing casual clothing daily, and I already owned a couple of J-frames, including a 642. It was easy to stop carrying the Beretta and switch to pocket carry with a 642 so around ten years ago that's what I did and haven't looked back since.

Is 5 shots enough? On a routine, typical, daily basis, I think it will suffice. I'm not Pollyannish about it - I do keep another J-frame in my car, and I have extra rounds in my briefcase, but when I'm out and about on a typical day all I have is the 5. I'm good with that. Except.....

The way I dress in my house of worship allows me to carry a 9mm S&W 6906, 12 rounds, and if I'm inclined, since that gun is in a belt holster, I can carry my 642 as well. We have armed security, they know me, and they know I'm armed. They say hello and at least one will say, "Glad my back up is here."

I was recently pulled over by police in a town just north of mine and when I shoed him my CHL he wasn't interested. "Every car in this town has a gun in it" was his remark.

21st century is DIFFERENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I guess 5 wasn't enough for me. One of the reasons I chose the 351c was the 7-round capacity. The other was the 11-oz weight making it truly pocketable, even in lightweight clothes. Recoil isn't a problem, so I get plenty of practice. .22 Magnum is a compromise but concealed carry is always a trade-off.

If you are worried about an attack by pirate-biker-ghost-alien-cowboy-thug-banshee-ninja-viking-mercenary-outlaw-vampire-zombies then you'll never be able to tote enough hardware to accommodate your perceived threat. Carry what you believe will cover the usual eventuality for the area you'll be in. For me that means a #642 in my pocket with a speed loader more than 90% of the time. The remainder of the time it's a SD9VE carried IWB and an extra mag. I'm not going to carry a P210-Baer-Python-Wilson-Korth-Webley-Zev-Hi Power. If I do have to protect myself or family the police are going to impound my gun until the justice system runs its course. I've seen what guns look like when (and if) the police return them, and I do not want to go through that with anything that I value highly. That is also why I have backups for my carry guns. If one is in an evidence locker then I still have a carry gun while the courts sort things out.

Best Regards,
ADP3

I carry a J Frame. To put it simply just hit what you aim at! I don't need 17 rounds. If I need that many rounds, I need a shotgun or a semi-auto long gun.

You should always carry extra ammo in case you have a malfunction and have to reload the gun be it revolver or autoloader. The first rule of clearing a jam is always dump the ammo and reload with fresh/new. Nothing worse than a jam in a 5 or 6 shot handgun. Actually the two gun carry makes more sense, but other than very high stress area's is probably not going to happen. At 65 years of age my normal carry in my quiet hometown is a J Frame and one reload. When I go into a metro area I add either a 7 shot L-Frame or a Browning P35 or a 45 Commander depending on where I am going to be.

No. Having worked in a technical field most of my life, I'm a bit of a statistician. Most armed confrontations are settled with one or two shots, sometimes zero. It is possible that I could need 15shots from a Glock 19 and an extra magazine, but not likely. Incidentally, my 5 shots are usually of the .44 Special variety. My J frame gets the job during warm months because it's easier to conceal.

I live in Arizona now that summer is here I carry my j-frame more than my Alaskan. 5 shots to be more than enough for the average civilian American. If you're in the situation we you're facing a gang of marauders I would start caring a semi-automatic holding 19 + 4 clips! But if I lived in such a horrible neighborhood that I needed more than 5 rounds and strapped to the neck, I would just move to a safer and better location. 80% of all off-duty law enforcement officers carry a snub-nose off duty.

Another question to ask, is 5 rounds of what?

A snub loaded with 5 rounds of 125 gr. 357 magnum is "more" than a snub loaded with 5 rounds of standard pressure 38 special.

That assumes you can handle the high power load and aren't in a trade that requires you to be able to hear.

And on a lighter note, armed citizens are five times more likely to be shot... you can give a monkey a gun but without the proper training it's still just a monkey with a gun. Without proper training and extensive training armed citizen shouldn't pretend they're cops. I believe all private citizenship practice practice practice Because one day you will have to draw that gun and with the right practice and training you might actually walk out alive without taking any bystanders with you.
I'm not trying to be a liberal or tree hugger or anything like that, just a recent incident with the armed citizen trying to do what they thought was right. Almost got a couple good cops killed....

Can you show me the data on the five times more likely stat?
What happened? Got a link?

Crime statistics FBI in Vegas 2008 at the Law Enforcement expo and National Crime Statistics and NewScience October 2009 and I'm sure there's a couple of sites that have that...
To be exact, They were 4.5 times more likely to be shot & 4.2 times more likely to die...

I now carry a S&W M&P 340 and a S&W 442-1 with two reloads.

All ammo carried is the Gold Dot 38 Special + P 135 grain. Load was developed for the NYPD. Very accurate in both of these revolvers.

I don't think I'm under gunned. I'm not an LEO or military. I'm not looking for trouble. Situational awareness is everything.

Wait for it... here comes the thread drift. Lucky gunner has had some great deals on the ammo.
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Thugs seem to like to travel in packs of three.

My first choice would be a Maremont M60 machine gun. Just two old to carry it all the time. You can't beat the lightweight j frame for CCW.