I have my homeowners insurance with State Farm. The policy is up for renewal this month, so I decided to ask my agent if State Farm offered coverage on it for concealed carry legal liability. I've had my permit about five years but had never gotten around to getting insurance. My agent was not sure, so called the company support at State Farm headquarters.

My agent was told- No State Farm does not offer CCW liability insurance. But not only that. My regular homowners liability is void if I use a firearm in self defense, say in a home invasion, BECAUSE I have a concealed carry permit. Their rationale: people with CCW have an intent to use their gun. So State Farm will not provide coverage. If I did not have a carry permit they would provide that small amount of protection in the standard homeowners policy.

The agent and I were both dumbstruck. Never heard such a stupid thing. Of course we are in Colorado and State Farm is headquartered in Illinois, so there is that. Next renewal cycle I will be changing all my insurance from State Farm. Too bad because I like the local agent.

Has anyone else ever encountered anything like that with their insurance?

SF was a pain in my butt many years ago and I haven't dealt with it since.

Almost no "homeowners" insurance will cover a "deliberate or intentional act," which will not fall under "negligence." While many agents will say it does, now you know the truth, at least as SF is concerned.

If you homeowners policy or rider doesn't clearly state it covers intentional acts of violence, or words to that effect, don't expect it to pay off. Agents will tell you anything to sell a policy.

I've been happy with SF for 35 years, but as SMSgt implied, good luck finding an insurer that doesn't operate out of a tree house to cover intentional acts.

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Music/Sports/Beer fan

Help me understand what they should cover in the even you have to use your firearm to defend your life or the life of someone you have a duty to protect? Damage to the home?

I would say it would be better to go with firearm specific coverage, since you will be looking for legal assistance.

There are several great options out there, and I would never have even thought of asking SF - not their thing.

best

mqqn

To whom? None of the homeowners insurance companies I am familiar with cover legal defense for deliberate actions. You might have some coverage if you are sued for a negligent accident.

I have insurance through the NRA endorsed insurance for use of a firearm, including classes and otherwise.
http://www.nraendorsedinsurance.com/

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Science plus Art

My wife worked for SF for 20 years until they closed the office and laid her off.
I learned that ALL insurance companies are thieves that are given a license from the government to steal.

Check out USCCA for insurance.

This,Don't expect ANY Insurance Company to pay off a claim.They will find any reason not to pay under the Sun,Whether ethical or not.Their #1 goal is to collect as many premium Dollars as possible and pay out as little as possible.So the CEO can suck a 250 Million Dollar a Year Salary out of the place.They also Lobby heavily in all States to get Laws changed so they can screw the policy holders with the small print.Can You tell I have been screwed by Insurnace Company's before?

I don't understand the problem? You want them to pay for physical damages? Are you planning on using grenades?

Used them many times. Never been screwed. Both home and auto. Claims adjuster comes out assesses the damage, send a check and job is done.

If they found ANY reason not to pay they would just not pay, that's a reason. Sorry you've been screwed somehow but your explanation doesn't work. Otherwise no one would ever be paid.

You don't live in WI my Friend....The Insurance Company's Lobby HEAVILY here.Therfore they pass Laws that lets them do whatever they want,It's all about the Money.

Likewise. I had a few cars stolen back in the day, they paid right away. Had lightning strike outside my house, voltage jumped on my well wiring and ran int my electrical panel, then to various areas in the house. It caused $3500 in damage, some 10 years ago. I didn't even have to submit bills for numerous items that I discovered a few weeks after.
"Just let us know what you spent to replace those items" they advised, "check is enroute".
My wife recently hit a coyote, or rather the coyote ran into the front of her car. Car was repaired at a cost that far exceeded their estimate, and a rental car was provided for an extended period.
Been with SF for decades, and have no interest in leaving. They pay all claims lickety split, and no games.

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Sure you did

I've been happy with State Farm for nearly 40 years now. Premiums are reasonable (in Texas anyway), and the very few claims I've had over the years were settled quickly and amiably.

I, too, doubt that any homeowners insurance from any company would cover you for a self defense shooting. I assume you are concerned about the scumbag and/or his surviving family suing you. The liability portion of any homeowners policy covers accidents and negligence. As has already been said, they expressly do not include intentional actions. If I have to shoot a scumbag criminal in my home I will certainly do so intentionally.

Have had SF for years (multi-veh and homeowners). The only claim filed was when my daughter backed into a parked car.
No complaints other than annual premium increases for everything from wildfires to are-wide flooding and tornado storm damage. All of which occurred elsewhere in the state.

SF is the 2nd ins Co I've ever head. The first one was Allstate. Got it when I was 20. Had two cars (94 Camaro 6cyl with 160k and 87 Bronco II). Neither one was worth much so I head basic ins. I was paying $1400 and Allstate said that's the cheapest anywhere. I told my dad and he looked around and found a local SF agent who cut my payment in half. I went from paying $1400 for two cars to just over $600. Been with the company and that agent ever since.

Well, just go ahead and cancel all your insurance policies, then. That will solve the problem about dealing with all those crooks, right? Think of all the money you'll save.

Uh-oh, wait a minute. You are required to have homeowners insurance if you have a mortgage or a HELOC. And you have to have auto insurance, period.

What to do, what to do?

Why wait until the next renewal? You can change any time you wish. If you've already paid your premium to State Farm, they will pro-rate it for the period you've been covered, and refund the difference to you at no charge. Simple as that.

In the state of Florida if you can prove you have $40 K net worth over your debt you can fill out a form and be "Self Insured" on your auto,

Motorcycles do not require insurance under Florida law,

Many Florida home owners have paid their mortgages off and become self insured especially after not putting in insurance claims after Hurricane Wilma and seeing their home owners policies triple in cost...

USAA...United Services Automobile Association...DOES cover your liability if you have to use your weapon in a legal self defense situation. Additionally, if you get an umbrella for additional liability coverage their umbrella policy covers self-defense as well.

NO homeowners policy is going to pay your legal bills in a criminal prosecution, good shoot or not. That is why, in addition to my homeowners and umbrella policies I am a member of the ACLDF...Armed Citizen Legal Defense Fund. They provide money for your defense AND have a wide range of expert witnesses in everything from the psychology of a shoot to ballistics to forensics to every other field necessary to mount a great defense. Mas Ayoob is one of their board members and witnesses available.

If you qualify for insurance thru USAA you cannot do any better.

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Bob | KM4DEO
Sport | Glock 22

I pretty much figured that State Farm would not have any kind of rider on homeowners to cover legal defense in use of a firearm, but thought I would ask while I was there. The thing that has ticked me off the more I think about it though is their position that there is something evil about having a concealed carry permit. As stated, their position is that simply having a permit means that the holder WANTS to shoot someone. The personal liability on my homeowners is only $1000 so I'm not sure what if anything it would be good for. But it bugs me that nevertheless it is specifically voided for having a CCW in the event of use of a gun. Without the CCW it would still be valid if I had to use a gun (though again specifically what for I'm not real sure- maybe one of these crazies that will sue you for injuring them when they commit the offense.)

We've been with SF since 1986...they've always been there and paid up. NRA and others offer insurance for CC and it is stongly recomended by me that you take the policy. Insurance can be and is complicated in certain ways/conditions. Do not assume. Educate yourself...It's your responsibility. I took a class and had a license a few years ago.

Check your auto , home and umbrella policies. Liability portions of insurance are generally cheap. It is YOUR responsibility to be covered...gain knowledge....be safe.

Limits are limits...just like a fine tool...you get what you pay for one and all. DO NOT ASSUME you are covered. Please...

Take the time and know what you have/have not. Insurance costs a small amount of $ for someone else to assume a LARGE amount of risk. Please , pretty please , think about it and know risk/reward. Please...

I'll agree they have certain advantages, perhaps somewhat of a game (all providers); yet I can say what I/we have paid out in premiums vs. hassle free solutions since 1986 and dollars in vs. dollars out...it's breakeven for them less investment results + or - a minimal amount either way.

State Farm, for us, has been a good and fair partner for almost 30 years. Most folks simply do not see or look for the value in protecting what you have/own. They see $1,000.00 out but do not see the $400,000.00 home rebuilt to todays permitting standards...

Study once a year , please , your policies and what you are covering.

Bureaucracy is ruining everything. They have a choke hold and anytime they feel like enacting some restriction, even if somebody wanted to contest it, the momentum is in their favor. SOME idiot in an office arbitrarily decided that having a CC permit says, that through their great wisdom, a person is looking for trouble in their own house.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Going to be checking with mine (SF) and see what he says. May be changing.

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I Cor. 10:13 "1611KJV"

Much of the information within this post is not accurate. We hope the following information helps to answer any questions you may have.

While State Farm does not offer concealed carry liability coverage, we do NOT exclude liability coverage from Homeowners policies for someone who owns/carries firearms.

Availability of coverage for injury in defense of persons or property under the State Farm Homeowners policy is going to be very situation and fact-specific, including the application of state laws applying to the incident.

Because every incident includes unique circumstances, with many variables, we can’t tell any customer he or she is covered or not covered for liability involving shooting someone else in self-defense. Each claim will be evaluated on its own merits to determine coverage under the applicable policy.

Also, unless a customer requests coverage for firearms or voluntarily tells us of ownership to estimate the value of their personal property, State Farm does not ask whether a customer is a gun owner.

Justin, State Farm

If you are a vet, check into USAA. I've been a member for nearly 50 years. I've also been able to pass along the ability to join to my kids. They like USAA, too!

heres a short video done by a local insurance agent,
https://www.facebook.com/41418443197...type=2&theater

USAA has been fantastic for me as well even when my 2 teenage boys felt like it was their duty to crash something at least one time per year. My homeowners policy also provides $10,000 in firearms insurance without a separate rider.

I had State Farm Insurance for 35 years . Home and multiple auto.
I never made a claim in those 35 years, but about 5 years ago they started doing things, without my knowledge to make sure they made more money and including loopholes for them to get out of paying.
After a hurricane I had damage from a fallen tree. $4000.00 . They showed me the $5000.00 loophole deductible ( it had been $500.00) they had passed for themselves because it was a "Named Storm".
I was so mad, I'm still mad about those low life....BUMS! 35 years , never missing a payment and they just smile and say " too bad".

I took all my business to Liberty Mutual and told State Farme to kiss my area where the sun don't shine.
Gary

The discussion in this thread is one reason that, in civil suits, plaintiffs often attempt to portray the shooting as a negligent, rather than intentional, discharge of a firearm, i.e. cocked gun fired accidentally, etc. That is because the homeowners policy may cover the accident while not covering an intentional, but justified, shooting.

Everyone is free to do what they want, but people with more knowledge than me have concluded that the best solution is to have self-defense insurance that pays attorney fees in the event of a civil suit or criminal charges, as well as monetary damages in the event of a verdict in a civil suit. In addition to that insurance, a membership in the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network gives access to big name court experts for consultation and maybe testimony and pays money for up front attorney retainers, etc.

You are VERY correct. Insurance is complicated. KNOW what you do or don not have...

It really is your responsibility. In business I have seen a million things (exageration) both good and bad with insurance. Nobody is holding your hand. You must educate yourself and think of the worst. Ask questions...

If you're concerned about legal issues after you draw your gun in your home or anywhere for that matter, I strongly recommend the USLAWSHIELD Program. In Texas, it's of course the TexasLawShield Program and it provides Lawyers and legal defense for you for a very minimal monthly cost.

If you use your weapon, you'll be mortgaging your home, selling your truck and begging family members for legal defense money. Homeowners insurance will be the least of your worries! Get covered now!

Depending on where you live, you may be required to have the resulting mess from any firearm use, or even just your death on the floor from natural causes cleaned up by a licensed hazmat cleaning company. If you rent, are in a condo, or in a homeowners association, it may be required in the smallest of the fine print.


In my area there is a complex with a lot of older folks, not a senior's home, but affordable for them (not public housing by any means). Two deaths recently. In both cases, natural deaths, the bodies were only found after the stench was evident from the outside in one case, and other adjoining apartments in the other case. For both, the landlord required a certified hazmat cleanup, ripping out carpets, some walls, and wood floors that were soaked with bodily fluids. The bills in both cases were tens of thousands of dollars. And then they threw in loss of rental income when the news got out. Took people a while to forget to mention to new folks touring them that Ms. X died on the stairs. Lots of turnover for a while. So yes, there can be claims for damage related to bleeding and dying, intentional or not.

As the head origin and cause investigator for my local fire department for 10yrs I made this statement to many persons who had suffered loss thru accidental fires "Insurance companies are not your friend, they are in the business to make money and every dime they pay you is a dime less profit for them." As you can imagine I was not very popular with insurance companies, ask me if I care.....

We have/had a local attorney here like Mr. Collects, decided in 2000 to come out of retirement after seeing a disabled neighbor ripped from stem to sternum by an insurance company and investigate nothing but cases involving insurance claims disputes. His charges were reasonable, a certain % if you went to court, a lesser %, smaller percentages than other attorneys, if they settled out of court. After a few years of severely kicking some insurance company ***** a lot of times all it took was a letter from him for the "case to be re-opened for futher consideration" that seemed to always result in money for the insured. He told me once that he got more satisfaction out of squeezing insurance companies than he had in his whole career.

In today's society of litigation insurance is unfortunately a necessary evil, but they are a profit business, not your friend and you should never forget that when dealing with them. Your agent may be a friend to you, mine is, but in the end they have to toe the company line.

Rob

Well said. Do not rely on people on this forum to tell you what your homeowners insurance will or will not cover. It's not just State farm.. I worked for their major competitor for 29 years. Homeowners liability does not cover intentional acts. If your carrier decides they might make an exception see if they'll tell you that in advance. Good luck.

Virtually every aspect,and I mean every one, has it's own insurance now...

Like I said "please do not assume you are covered" know it. Know what is at risk...better to be over insured than something less.

I'll be glad when this earthly experience is...well , done. It seems there are just too many of us anymore. But it is what it is...

One thing that runs up premiums is that too many people look at their insurance as a maintainance policy. A $2k claim here, a $1K claim there, etc. That is a good way to get your policy cancelled, or your premiums doubled. Not speaking of the personal liability aspect, but just the physical damage part, I look at insurance as disaster protection. If I lose $2000 of electronics in a thunderstorm, I will just absorb the expense and replace stuff as I can. If my house burns, or if I have major storm damage, that is what I have ins. for. I have a high deductible, and it costs less. I changed to State Barn a few years back after 50 years with Cotton States. CS had become a real pain in the buttocks.

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Georgia On My Mind

ive had state farm home & auto insurance for over 20 years.....they've always done right by me....

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There's nowt so queer as folk

Nuff said, SF has never been worth a damn.

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John

Insurance is a necessary evil. At least when I think of USAA, I don't conger up an image of a red man with horns, tail and pitch fork.

You should never stay with any insurance company more that a couple of years, shop around every 2 years and get introductory rates.
None of them are loyal to you, just their bottom line.

The insurance company's are not you friend, they will pull all kinds of **** to keep from paying a claim.

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John

You may want to take a close look at the NRA-endorsed policy, available thru the link someone posted above in #5. See you are satisfied that it really would cover intentional use of deadly force in self-defense. If I'm looking at the correct policy form, it makes me kinda queasy.
This is not to be construed or taken as legal advise. I'm not your lawyer, either.