Apparently there are quite a few folks who use a shotgun for home defense. For those that do this, do you keep them loaded all the time? If so, that seems like a bad idea for obvious reasons. If they are kept empty, what is the best way to get them loaded quickly in the event that they are needed?

I don't keep a round in the chamber as I have both Remington and Mossberg, and the safeties are in different locations. I keep mine empty chamber, safety off, trigger pulled, and tube loaded. This way it doesn't matter which one I grab, I just work the action to load it, and they work the same at that point. I also have extra rounds on the butt cuff, so I could top off the tube if I want to.

No children in the house ever, so I keep the pump 12 gauge chamber empty, magazine loaded..rack it once and it's ready to dance, hopefully that sound will discourage anyone from staying around too long.

What are these "obvious reasons" you speak of?

I'm of the opinion that any defensive gun should be loaded and ready to go. Any extra action necessary to make it ready is just an opportunity for a malfunction and can cost valuable time.

If one of the obvious reasons is a safety issue, I guess I don't see it. I've left guns loaded for weeks at a time and none of them have discharged on their own.

If you're concerned about kids, then education is the key. If the children are very small then the gun should be out of reach or locked up. In either situation the gun being loaded isn't an issue as long as they can't get to it.

If you're concerned about spring compression, don't be. Springs will compress over time, but not enough to cause the gun to not work. I have left my shotgun loaded for weeks at a time and it still worked fine. I know others who have left magazines loaded for years and they still worked fine.

I see no reason to not leave the gun loaded, including a round in the chamber, as long as you're not careless.

__________________
Freedom isn't free.

I am sorry, the reasons why a loaded shotgun is bad are not "Obvious" to me either.

Whatever gun I use for defense anywhere, at any time, is ALWAYS loaded.

Would you keep your home defense handgun empty?

Keeping rounds under pressure in the mag tube can actually distort the plastic shells, allowing for a possible malfunction. Seems to be Mossberg 500 owners who mention it most when it comes up. I noticed it myself once.

Of course a double bbl is immune to that.

I lived rural, I have currently 3 models of pump 12 gauge. ( Mossberg 500, Remington 870, and Winchester 1897) For years I subscribed to the "empty chamber" method. At my home it was a constant war with varmints so grab a shotgun and chamber a round, when my family heard the sound of a racking shot gun they knew what would follow and where they needed to be. This happened often enough that they didn't need drills or reminders! One night there was a varmint at a location that if I racked the shotgun he would escape which he did. My wife and I discussed it and decided the chambers stayed loaded. If I want the distinctive sound, I'll eject a live round and deal with it later.(At that point the youngest was 14 or 15 and had his own shotguns and rifles.) But 1911's and pump guns take time and noise to go from worthless to ready! Ivan

PS: It is better but harder to "Gun Proof" your children, than "Child Proof" your guns, but many families never get their kids to obey the rules!

I don't know what the "obvious" problems are either. My privately owned 870 that I have carried on duty for about 15 years has been loaded the entire time. The only time it's empty is when I am practicing or qualifying with it, or cleaning it. Never a problem.

I've kept a loaded shotgun almost two decades. Every two to three years the magazine spring needs replacing, and I've never had a problem with good quality buckshot distorting in the mag tube. It should at least have the magazine loaded or it's no good. The sound of it racking won't be enough

Yes.

It may be a bad idea with kids in the house, depending on their age. There are no kids living with me, so that isn't a concern for me.

Also, there are some pump shotgun advocates who subscribe to the idea that the sound of the pump action racking a shell into the chamber might scare someone off, or perhaps freeze them for a few seconds. I semi-subscribe to that theory, but at the same time, cycling a shell into the chamber is a great way to give away your position. In your home, at night with the lights turned off, you have the advantage. You can find your way in the dark...bet you do it all the time, don't you? You know where everything is...the intruder does not. Don't give yourself away with random noises.

So my old Winchester Model 12 Riot Gun is always ready with one in the chamber. I trust the safety on it. When seconds count, it's faster to finger a cross bolt safety than it is to pump the action, plus you'd have to have ears like a bat to hear it being disengaged.

Why does it seem like a bad idea?

I don't want to depend on an unloaded gun in the middle of the night.

My short barrel A-5 is loaded without one in the chamber with the magazine cutoff activated. Flip the lever and it charges the chamber. I have it mounted inside and above a closet door. Wife did not know it was there until she asked about any protection other than in the vault.

Jack

Loaded shotgun magazines tubes cause problems over time? Hmm, never heard about that. I've been in LE for over 16 years and all of our shotguns are carried chamber empty, magazine tube loaded and never once have we had an issue.

I keep my Mossberg loaded & chambered, no kids in the house, nevere had a problem with tube spring and has been that way for year's. Every now and then I cycle through and re-load, nevvera problem.

I live out a ways in the boonies (A 1/4 mile off the road). We have no cell service and spotty at best LEO/EMS communications, so even if we could call out (assuming our LL. was not cut or damaged in some way) an officer sort of close by would never get the call from his base. We live in a large county and assuming we could call, it easily could be a ½ hour or more before the cavalry arrives.

We also have a lot of bears and other animals so I wanted a gun that could take care of business.

There are no kids in my house and my Mossie 12G 9 shot is secured in a rack but very handy if you know how to get it out. It is loaded to fire 5 00 buck with 4 slugs behind that. More shells are located on a bandoleer with the gun. It is fully loaded and I have had no problems with springs or deformed shells. I have heard that old canard about racking the action and scaring, well IMNSHO I want all ammo available. I’m not going to a party 1 round down.

It has a full stock not interested in that RAMBO looking pistol grip only, as it’s nice to be able to control the gun when firing.

Yes I have other weapons (pistols) available but the Mossie is my go-to when things go bump in the middle of the night, (or day). An end of the word type situation that many talk about happens there will be a .223 semi close by also but for normal problems I will take the Mossie,

__________________
14 S&W Revs none with locks!

Magazine loaded, chamber empty, action un-locked

Ditto that for me. First though, any intruder has to get by my 80lb pit who unlike me has NO sense of humor.

I sold my Mossberg shotguns due to the location of the safety. I have shot Remington rifles and shotguns all my life. As for keeping it loaded on fire with an empty chamber, that is great. Just the sound of racking a round into an 870 will make the baddest bad guy poo his pants.

My old 870 with skeet barrel and 00. Plug out, full tube, empty chamber, safety off. Side mount w/4 more. Tactical light.
BS on racking. Not at all scary. Just lets me know your location.

Just finished up a thread-- You Should Not Carry A Gun.

Looks like it's time for-- You Should Not Have A Loaded Gun.

Everything I own above .22 cal is loaded and round chambered. All spare Speedloaders, Moonclips, and Magazines also loaded.

I keep mine fully loaded safety on.

Mossberg 500, safety off, chamber empty, loaded tube, trigger pulled, within easy reach at night. Also have a Railmaster laser and a Streamlight on the forend.

When I leave it for any length of time , or when the grandkids are visiting, I install a trigger lock, remove it as soon as I get back home. My wife can shoot it better than I can, so I'll back her up with my M&P 45c!

I've read about this on various gun forums, but never experienced it. All the other forum comments that I've read are strictly anecdotal. People say this, people say that, but no one I've seen offers up any proof, photo documentation, or results of any sort of serious analysis/comparison/studies/whatever.

Personally, I recently took one of my Winchester Model 12s for a short walk in the woods and fired off seven shells that had been in there three years. Just fired them off at random to keep the action loosened up. No failures to feed, no ejection problems, nada.

And a side note on tube magazines and magazine springs here. I have never just arbitrarily replaced a mag spring just because it's been compressed for years or months because the magazine tube was fully loaded. When I say "never", I'm talking about forty-five years, okay? And I've never experienced loss of tension and failures to feed.

I think some shooters just look for reasons to fiddle with their guns, just to have something to talk about. "Had to replace the mag spring...it'd been loaded for a year or so."

Do I keep some spares on hand? Sure I do. Can't remember how many years I've had the spares.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I don't know why, but this made me smile. I gotta know...what kind of varmint are we talking about here? Just the mental image of some kind of critter hightailing it outta there cause it hears the shotgun cycling made me smile. Not doubting you, you understand...just got this cartoon image in my head.

Tang safety? I had a Mossberg SPX930, but sold it. Loved the tang safety, though.

No, it will not. That sounds great in theory, and as I said in an earlier comment, I sort of semi-subscribe to that theory, but it ain't gospel. Some of these new urban punk-thugs wouldn't know what a pump cycling sounds like if you did it right in front of them. For all they know, you've just dropped your gun, or tripped over a floor lamp or something.

Our bedside shotguns are loaded with rounds in the chambers. Buck and ball. I've got a 12 GA coachgun. She's got a Rem 870 12 GA Synthetic.

Nearest neighbors are 75 yards away with thick pine woods between us.

No children. I telecommute. Haven't worked in an office in 20 years.

Since we are talking home defense, I agree. I did, however experience shell fatigue in a folding stock 870 that sat, butt (pistol grip) on the floorboard of a patrol car day in & out. Bounced to the point that poly buffer material broke free of the crimp and shifted through the tube, gumming things up. I think it was due more to shock & vibration than spring pressure. Didn't think to take pictures, just dumped the remains on the Watch Commander's desk and drew replacements.

Also first shell up in these shotguns, which were kept chamber empty, tended to be cycled in and out without being fired, so there was wear and tear that way, as well.

Again, this was in a vehicle, not a closet, but keeping the mag or the chamber loaded and "load and forget" are different in my mind. I prefer "load, check regularly and maintain".

__________________
I need ammo, not a ride.

I never thought to take photos of it at the time, thinking only "huh, so that does happen". Note that I only saw it happen once, with a particular Mossberg 500. I doubt anyone has sat and studied it. Given all the combinations of guns and ammo possible, doing so is likely cost prohibitive.

I can only tell you what I saw happen. Given other "it happened to me once" reports, I would surmise that it happens sometimes with some gun/ammo combinations.

Please explain the "obvious reasons" that a loaded self-defense shotgun is a bad idea . . .

__________________
Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

I call that which makes grass green and meadows pungent . . .

__________________
Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

I have 5 shells on the side saddle on my 870. Safety off and trigger pulled
When I DID keep ammo in the gun, it was cocked on empty chamber,'and fully loaded tube. That way, I knew I had to press the button to unlock
The gun and chamber, but the average non gun person can't figure it out. Everybody has seen the Hollywood shotgun pump.

I figure ammo on gun but not IN gun gives me best of both worlds. Slapping a shell into the chamber as I grab it doesn't seem too hard.

For a pump gun, the spring will likely last forever.

For my 1100, spring pressure releases the action to feed the next round, so a weak spring will slow it down.

Yes.

Obviously, thugs don't make appointments to rob us at home. If they did, we could take the family to Grandma's for milk & cookies; and have SWAT waiting inside the living room.......

__________________
July 4, 1776 not Jan 30, 1909

My 870 is loaded with chamber empty at the foot of the bed. Like someone said, the sound of an 870 racking should put the fear of God in anyone. A weapon light is a valuable accessory also like the Surefire integrated forearm light I have here.

Attached Images

IMG_20150521_023200.jpg (75.7 KB, 41 views)

__________________
Mbr; LEAA,KSRA,M.C.League

The Remington 1100 is a gas operated shotgun. The gas from the fired round unlocks the bolt and sends it to the rear. The main spring presses it forward to chamber the next round. A weak mag spring will not affect this function. It may cause a malfunction by not sending the next round onto the carrier. However, this is extremely unlikely.

I've worked with many 1100s and never seen one have a failure due to the mag spring. So, keep them loaded. They will work reliably for a hundred years.


To all those that think racking the action/bolt will scare away the bad guy; two things...

1. By racking the action you've given away any tactical advantage you had by having your location and status unknown. Now he knows where you are and that you have a gun. This knowledge might make him run, but I doubt it. Wouldn't it be more effective to scare him off with the shot that will stop him if aimed properly? If you really want to use a noise to drive him away, let it be your voice proclaiming that you have a gun and will use it to protect your family. Let the sound of racking the second round in, after dispatching the first guy, run off any of his buddies.
2. You've introduced the possibility of a malfunction. Sure, there is a good probability that a quality firearm like the Mossberg 500 series or the Remington 870 will work. Even so, there's still the likelihood it might not. You're betting your life on this probability. Wouldn't it be better to have at least one shot before a malfunction? Having an already chambered round will ensure that you get at least one shot.

Did I just make Chattanooga Phil's prediction come true?

__________________
Freedom isn't free.

Yes, I made the whole thing up, as did every other person who claims it happened to them...

In 22 years of owning shotguns, I saw it, personally, happen one time. A specific Mossberg 500. It was loaded with Winchester OO buck. Five shot magazine, not the extended tube. Other people who have had it happen claimed the extended tube models. That this is suddenly a controversial topic is interesting.

Note I say CAN happen, not will happen. There are obviously variables in terms of guns, ammunition, time, and springs. Some guns will also continue to function just fine even with mashed up and deformed shells so it will not even be noticed. But other guns might not be tolerant.

How many types of plastic hulls are there by how many manufacturers? Did plastic composition ever vary? Do different guns have different power springs by various makers, themselves of differing composition....to say nothing of follower types, how ammunition might have been stored after production etc.

Awful lot of variables isn't there?

Most of my gun and ammo combinations? It never happened or deformation was only slight and not cause for concern.

The "cure" for this particular "might" is simple. Every six months to a year or so take the shotgun out and shoot the ammunition in it. Clean, maintain and inspect the gun at this point. Deformed shells are simply one failure point to be aware of while doing the annual annihilation of dust bunnies.

Or don't. Nothing to me either way.

As an aside here is one of the many threads on the topic. Note the responses are universal in that it does happen, happened to them, etc,http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=1&t=318214

I believe you meant to say, "unloaded" at the foot of the bed. I would not want to give away my position and loose that tactical advantage. I totally agree a light is mandatory.
Everything is with in arms reach, Rifle, pistol, shotgun, cell phone, spare mags, lights, on both sides of the bed. We also have 2 lovable Rotts 125 lb male and 75 lb female, no children, no neighbors that would be hit by any thing short of a Barrett. If the alarm has gone off, they have stopped both dogs, I hardly believe that racking the slide would deter them from continuing their plans.

Also a few people had stated that they put 5 buck, followed by 4 slugs?? I am not suggesting it is "wrong" just that I do not understand the benefit. If I can not hit them with buck under 25 yds, and since I do not have 25 yd shots in my house then I see no benefit of switching to a slug inside my house. I will not pursue them outside. Be Safe,

__________________
I BACK OUR BLUE

I find that hard to believe. The racking of a pump shotgun is in nearly every action movie and video game. It's the universal language for "you're about to get lit up". The movies use it all the time to make the actor look badass.

Actor "what are we going to do?"

Hero " it's time to rock and roll". Ka-Chunk!

It's been shown not to work. First of, how is your house built. Mine is newer construction. Built in 1996 with typical drywall. I can rack the shotgun all day long in my bedroom upstairs on the 3rd floor at the back of the house and you won't hear a thing on the second (main) floor through half a dozen drywall walls and 2000 Sq ft.

Second. If you do hear it it would be muffled enough that all you'd know is you heard,a noise. Not necessarily a shotgun being racked.

Third. If it was heard now they know your location. If it's someone who an opportunist he may leave not wanting to take a chance. If it's not or if they got the wrong house ....well....you just told them when to expect resistance from and where to shoot.

Fourth. Possibility that the guy just didn't put 2 and 2 together.

Fifth. Slim chance but hey the guy could be death or hard of hearing

Per request from the DOW our defensive shotgun is loaded first with 1 round of rubber bullets, then 2 of buck then the remainder slugs. Reason is the only times we've used it has been on bears. We had one bear get those first 3 rounds broadside and round 4 was chambered and ready to fire before he decided to turn tail and run. No we did not pursue. I was backing hubby up with my handgun in case we needed it.

I don't subscribe to the sound theory, but like I stated earlier, I keep mine chamber empty, safety off and action unlocked to simplify the manual of arms between different brands.

My wife is not a shooter. She shoots the shotgun enough to know how to hit the target, but she does not shoot it enough to instinctively know where the safety is, especially when we have a mix of brands.

I've seen my son and I both miss a clay or a bird simply due to using a different shotgun and trying to flick off a tang safety that doesn't exist... (last season when I switched from an O/U to a semi auto) so if you shoot a variety of shotguns like we do, that little safety switch can cause some problems under stress as well. However, we both know how to pump a shotgun instinctively, and with the action unlocked, we don't have to worry about where the action release is either.

Tactical Shotgun Megaphone - love it!!!

__________________
K & N S&W revolvers

Also a few people had stated that they put( 5 buck, followed by 4 slugs??) I am not suggesting it is "wrong" just that I do not understand the benefit.







That 5-4 quote came from me. I live out a ways in the boonies and bears are a distinct possibility. We also have no kids or close neighbors so over penetration is not a problem, the 5 00s will get any living things attention when fired. I grant you they are more appropriate for human pest control but they will at the minimum slow down the bear till the slugs make the trip from mag to chamber.

I see the rack em to scare em crowd has made a few posts and hey it’s their life do what’s best for you. A BEAR & druggie or a very street wise punk is not going to be impressed that you have a gun.+ you just gave away your position!

As I stated I’m fully loaded the first sound I hope to make is going to be quite loud and rather bright. No one should hear the safety get pushed to off!

I would rather have a fully loaded gun than a partial. I’m not going to a fist fight with my one hand tied behind my back, I want the deck as well stacked in my favor as I can get it

__________________
14 S&W Revs none with locks!

WELL SAID !

Thank You. I am also in a rural location- took my first bear- 275 yds from my front door, wolves, coyotes frequent the Lawn at night ( for some reason the coyotes do not appear during the day, with in a 350 yd perimeter, ( anymore). I had not been thinking of 4-legged animal. Be Safe,

__________________
I BACK OUR BLUE

^that's what I do too

Back in the 70s, a close friend lived in a court apartment, ground floor, 4 apts. per building. They were not air conditioned. He and his GF at the time, would sleep with the windows and doors open and the screen latched. One night they heard someone in the living room. There was a short hallway before you got to their bedroom. He kept an old Rem. Model 11 with the chamber empty. He took it, and pulled the bolt handle and let it fly forward. He then heard 2 steps and the screen bang open. Prowler wasn't waiting around. I'd say this, if you know someone is in the house, and you are going to stay in your bedroom, and defend yourself there, no problem with racking the slide. You cover the door and nobody gets past you. If you rack the slide and don't hear any movement, you may very well have more than a burglar or prowler on your hands. You better be prepared for the worst.

__________________
Wayne
Torn & Frayed

You guys are killing me - especially that megaphone!

Some years ago I had a friend who showed me that if he didn't have a shotgun handy he could scare bad guys away by "racking the slide" on his squeegee mop! It really does sound similar and through a door, well, maybe more than similar. However, I have never been of the mindset that the sound of a racking shotgun slide will accomplish much beyond giving away your position and ensuring that your opponent knows what's coming.

That said, I keep a couple of loaded shotguns in my house and a loaded rifle, specifically an Ithaca Model 37, a Remington 870, and Winchester Model 94 Trapper in .44 Magnum that I keep loaded with .44 Specials. None of them have a round in the chamber.

So, since many folks do keep a round in the chamber, let me explain. Unless your long arm is at your side, or leaning against your bedpost, or RIGHT THERE behind a door, it is not your primary home defense weapon. One can safely presume that if you're on this Forum you're into handguns. Ipso facto, it is a reasonably safe presumption that you can get to handgun in your house fairly easily, perhaps way more easily than you can access your long arms.

To quote Clint Smith:

I don't know if that's original with him but I learned it from him.

The point is, wherever I am in my little house I have handguns available, either on my person or close at hand, asleep, awake, even in the little room (see other threads on that latter subject). Therefore, if the SHTF, my first line of defense is going to be a handgun. If time permits, I will quickly make my way to the concealed long guns. If time permits, I will transition from the handgun to one of the long guns. If I have commenced fire I'll still be trying to get to the long arms but the handguns will always be first.

That is NOT the ideal situation. Ideally, the shotguns are available first. But they're put away because they'd be in the way during a normal day or evening.

This is definitely a YMMV situation so if it's convenient for you to have your loaded shotgun handier than anything else I'm with you. The American Rifleman recently carried an article by a retired Spec Op Master Sergeant who advocated an AR for primary home defense. I'm good with that - if you have it nearby. That doesn't work for me or for most average households.

One of my best friends from the cowboy action shooting world keeps an assortment of loaded weapons available in his ranch house. But the weapons he or his missus can get to first, especially when he's sleeping, are all handguns. It's a compromise and handguns fill the bill for the compromise. If you can beat that with a 12 gauge hanging on the wall I'm glad for you.

870 with nite sights, loaded...1+6 #1 Buck, High Brass.

No racking the slide, no dramatics, no BSin' er messin' around, just all business.


.

__________________
"IN GOD WE TRUST"