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Old 10-10-2015, 10:27 AM
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Default Guns Stored In Vehicles, Revisited

The subject of leaving guns in vehicles, like open carry vs. concealed carry, often provokes responses highly charged enough to result in the thread being closed or locked. For that reason, I refrain from any accusatory comments.

I just want to forward a police report that a backpacking Canadian tourist murdered this week in Golden Gate Park, San Francisco, and a yoga instructor murdered on a hiking trail north of that city were both murdered with the same handgun stolen from an unlocked, parked vehicle at Fisherman's Wharf, San Francisco on October 1st.

I'll stop short of making pronouncements, one way or the other. But, if your CCW activities requires you to occasionally leave a handgun in a vehicle. BUY AN APPROPRIATE SAFE! I know that leaving a gun under the driver's seat is indeed a very clever hiding place but only against thugs who are already brain-dead.

The family of Kate Steinle, murdered on the very same pier by an alien who stole the gun from a parked federal law enforcement vehicle, have filed suit against that agency. I'm not a lawyer so I'll refrain from commenting on the merits of that case.

Last edited by federali; 10-10-2015 at 10:30 AM.
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Old 10-10-2015, 05:08 PM
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Default Very sad.

Some folks seem not to care a whit. PLEASE do not leave a gun unsecured.

Be safe.
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Old 10-10-2015, 05:30 PM
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I don't leave one all the time, but when I do, I leave it tucked up behind the sun visor along with my keys.

Actually, it's likely better secured than many household safes.
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Old 10-10-2015, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by The Big D View Post
Some folks seem not to care a whit. PLEASE do not leave a gun unsecured.

Be safe.
Big D, there are times when the LAW forces us to do so!!

I cannot park my car in the United States Post Office parking lot and leave my handgun in the car!!! I sure can't take it into the building with me!!

Some establishments have NO GUNS signs on the door. Do I ignore the sign or go back and put my handgun in the car??

Hospital have the same rules/regulations/law/whatever...

Personally I ignore all signs that are not FEDERAL.....there is no reason for a retail establishment to ever know I am LEGALLY carrying a handgun CONCEALED. There is no reason for a hospital to know the same thing. IF I am seeing a doctor I do not take my handgun . . .

IF I follow your logic I would never leave my home with a handgun because I can't possibly take it everywhere I go LEGALLY........

Last edited by Road Rat; 10-24-2015 at 08:26 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 10-10-2015, 05:45 PM
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These heinous acts are not the fault of the inanimate object used

These heinous acts are not the fault of the person that had the inanimate object used stolen from them

These heinous acts are exclusively the fault of the SICK, EVIL PERSON that carried them out


When a SICK, EVIL PERSON wants to commit a crime of violence and can not get his/her hands on a gun, they will use a machete, knife, baseball bat, chainsaw, bomb, car, airplane, can of gasoline or whatever else is handy.

Let's keep the blame where the blame belongs

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Old 10-10-2015, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road Rat View Post
Big D, there are times when the LAW forces us to do so!!

I cannot park my car in the United States Post Office parking lot and leave my handgun in the car!!! I sure can't take it into the building with me!!

Some establishments have NO GUNS signs on the door. Do I ignore the sign or go back and put my handgun in the car??

Hospital have the same rules/regulations/law/whatever...

Personally I ignore all signs that are not FEDERAL.....there is no reason for a retail establishment to every know I am LEGALLY carrying a handgun CONCEALED. There is no reason for a hospital to know the same thing. IF I am seeing a doctor I do not take my handgun . . .

IF I follow your logic I would never leave my home with a handgun because I can't possibly take it everywhere I go LEGALLY........
Watch carrying into a hospital that provides mental health services ( almost all of them). It can be a state law that you are breaking, not a hospital rule. Check your area.
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Old 10-10-2015, 06:49 PM
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Your original post got me to thinking about my own situation because I was leaving shortly on a trip from Kingman, AZ to San Antonio, TX and I knew there would probably be occasions when I would have to leave my weapon in the car. In the past when I have done so I always remove the magazine and store the empty gun in my locked glove box.

After doing some research I bought a Hornady TriPoint Lockbox. I have a hidden compartment in my vehicle and the lockbox fit perfectly, thereby giving me a safe place to store my weapon. We just returned this past Monday from our trip and I will continue to use the lockbox if the need arises again. I only used it twice on our trip, but it worked out well because I also used it to store a substantial amount of cash along with my gun.

Love the box, well worth the money.

Hornady Manufacturing Company :: Security Products :: Lock Boxes :: TriPoint® Lock Box

Last edited by Lee in Quartzsite; 10-10-2015 at 07:10 PM.
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Old 10-10-2015, 07:03 PM
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Just a thought. If the handgun is a semi auto perhaps pull the slide and take it with you or hide the parts in different locations? Most thieves would not be interested in gun parts. Again, just a thought.
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Old 10-10-2015, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road Rat View Post
Big D, there are times when the LAW forces us to do so!!
No.

There are any number of devices available that you can use to secure your gun in your vehicle. No one is "forcing" you to do anything
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Old 10-10-2015, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
These heinous acts are not the fault of the inanimate object used

These heinous acts are not the fault of the person that had the inanimate object used stolen from them

These heinous acts are exclusively the fault of the SICK, EVIL PERSON that carried them out
The weapon is not at fault. The person who left the weapon in his or her car is not at fault. To suggest otherwise is to stand with the hoplophobes. People have been leaving guns in cars for generations. The corollary is that over the course of time a certain number of cars will be broken into and a certain number of guns will be stolen. However, from the legal standpoint, it is NOT considered a foreseeable act that your car will be broken into and, therefore, the misuse of an item stolen from your car is not legally your responsibility.

The person who leaves a weapon unsecured in his or her home is not at fault. To suggest otherwise is to stand with the hoplophobes. People have been leaving guns unsecured in homes for generations. The corollary is that over the course of time a certain number of homes will be broken into and a certain number of guns will be stolen.

That's just life in a free country. Accept it for what it is.
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Old 10-10-2015, 08:34 PM
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All good points ...... so far.


Armchair quarterback evaluation of the lockboxes provided in the links from Smoke and Lee in Quartzsite show lockboxes that look like they could be fairly easily removed by cutting the cable that secures them and they look like they would not be too tough to open with a hammer and a pry bar or chisel. Maybe my assessment is way off base?

So is there really a significant benefit by using a lockbox as suggested above versus a fairly sturdy lockable glove box or center console? There seems to be a downside to anything short of a bolted down, heavy duty small safe with a robust locking mechanism.
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Old 10-10-2015, 08:44 PM
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I just don't carry when i know i'm going some place restricted, second thought ,I only carry in November and December when the Xmass crazies are lurking. I will and never will leave a gun in a car.
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Old 10-10-2015, 08:44 PM
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Center consoles and glove boxes are first targets they look at. Neither in my vehicle are equipped with locks, and there is no separate trunk. Both underseat areas are floor doors to mechanical / electrical that can be easily removed.

So I use a cable & keylock box. Still looking for better options, but there isn't much out there.
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Old 10-10-2015, 09:00 PM
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Thumbs up Freedom

I was born and have lived my entire life in the "South", and never been forced to or had to go anywhere else out side it. Nor any desire or need to visit any more "civilized" areas. Laws and locks are only for honest people. Give all the the what if's and maybe's a rest. Do what you feel is right. If you can't do that, just go to New York City or California, nothing meant, just good examples.
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Old 10-10-2015, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke View Post
No.

There are any number of devices available that you can use to secure your gun in your vehicle. No one is "forcing" you to do anything
Maybe I didn't quite understand the first quote: he said to never leave a firearm UNSECURED in the car. I have a lock-box held under the driver seat with a cable and sometimes I am FORCED to use it...............
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Old 10-11-2015, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by federali View Post
...murdered with the same handgun stolen from an unlocked, parked vehicle...
Quote:
Originally Posted by federali View Post
...if your CCW activities requires you to occasionally leave a handgun in a vehicle. BUY AN APPROPRIATE SAFE! I know that leaving a gun under the driver's seat is indeed a very clever hiding place but only against thugs who are already brain-dead.
How are we overlooking that the vehicle was unlocked in the first place?!?

Last edited by buzzkillbob; 10-11-2015 at 12:45 PM.
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Old 10-11-2015, 01:00 PM
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Said it before, but here goes: at the very least automakers should offer GOOD locking compartments for guns, cash, credit cards, cameras, etc. instead we get cup holders...

One of my vehicles has a decent sized built-in steel compartment that is somewhat out of sight. I added two cylinder locks to it.

No reason on God's green earth that they couldn't be commonplace.
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Old 10-11-2015, 08:37 PM
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As far as I'm concerned, locked doors be it a vehicle or your home should be considered secured. If the folks running this country would enforce laws already on the books and really punish the scumbags who break them it would be a much better place.
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Old 10-11-2015, 10:11 PM
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As far as I'm concerned, locked doors be it a vehicle or your home should be considered secured. If the folks running this country would enforce laws already on the books and really punish the scumbags who break them it would be a much better place.
In theory your concept makes perfect sense in reality 25 bucks is cheap insurance against having to replace a 600$ gun
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Old 10-11-2015, 10:59 PM
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Here is a Tuffy lock box I bought for my Jeep. It has tabs that you secure between the seat frame and body.
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Old 10-11-2015, 11:54 PM
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I don't think people realize just how difficult it is to store a gun in a vehicle.

Think about it. What's easier? Leave it under the seat? In the glove box? Trunk?

The problem is when you arrive at your destination you must remove the gun from the holster, hide it or lock it up all the while hoping that nobody sees you doing so.

Or you lock it in a secure box before you arrive at your destination and hope you dont need the gun in between.

And I believe that just as many guns have been stolen from police cars than civilian.

Instead, why aren't we concerned with people that own guns but not a gun safe at home?
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Old 10-12-2015, 04:08 AM
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Instead, why aren't we concerned with people that own guns but not a gun safe at home?
Because actual, UL burglary-rated safes (not "residential security containers") are expensive.

Still, I suppose a RSC bolted to the wall and floor is better than nothing, but they still aren't "cheap."
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Old 10-12-2015, 08:22 AM
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I don't believe that those people are dead because somebody left a gun in an unlocked car. I believe they are dead because a piece of trash killed them. The piece of thrash would have gotten a gun from another piece of trash who got it by some other method. I doubt the killer was the one who stole the gun in the first place. Place the deaths responsibility where they belong on the piece of trash.

Not saying that people should be irresponsible with guns. But, leaving a gun in an unlocked car doesn't mean you are responsible for its theft or crimes committed after the fact. That is on the thief and those who commit the crime.

Around here hunting season is starting. Lots of guns in vehicles. Many of them unlocked. Extremely low theft rate. Steal around here and you go to jail. he guy who stole the gun used in these crimes probably had a rap sheet that rivals some novels and he was still walking the streets.

If I decided to go into burglary your $3000 gun safe would only be a 30 min delay at most. Would any crimes committed with those guns then be your fault? Why would you be more innocent than someone with a $300 safe? Someone who only locked the door? some one who didn't lock the door?

Just where do you draw the line on who is or isn't responsible?

Should we let the government decide?

Who gets to decide?
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Old 10-12-2015, 09:52 AM
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Because actual, UL burglary-rated safes (not "residential security containers") are expensive.

Still, I suppose a RSC bolted to the wall and floor is better than nothing, but they still aren't "cheap."
Guns are expensive. I've got one gun (actually three or four, individually) that equals the price of the largest, most expensive safe I saw at Cabela's last week . . . Any five of mine would approach that same price point. Think safes are expensive now?
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Old 10-12-2015, 10:23 AM
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We have a man living in our neighborhood who is a convicted felon. He's a registered sex offender and even worse, a pedophile. This house has become an eyesore in our community. Couple years ago he was busted for trafficking Opana. Whole bunch of pills and a wad of cash on him. After a little more than a year of the case being constantly continued he was finally convicted and given a few years probation. This scumbag is once again selling drugs out of the house. While this is not related to the particular discussion in this thread it is still related.

The big reality here is that regardless of the crime, there is no real consequence for breaking the law. Drug dealers, rapists, thieves, and murderers are being turned out on the streets with no good reason to change their nasty ways. Our system has failed us, the upstanding law abiding citizen.
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Old 10-12-2015, 10:36 AM
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My husband and I have a pair of handgun safes in each of our vehicles, and his pickup has a hidden locked storage box under the back seat for long guns. Nothing impenetrable, but it is the least we could do. We don't leave guns in them habitually, just temporarily when the need arises.
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Old 10-12-2015, 10:45 AM
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As a military retiree I sometimes need to shop or visit a military installation; when I know I'm going there I go unarmed. Fortunately I live near enough to the base that I can return home and arm up before beginning the rest of my errands. I'm going to be carrying anywhere and everywhere else; we don't have many restricted areas here in WA. If I need to drop something at the PO I'll wait in the car while my wife runs it in. If we're going out to eat I just need to stay out of the "bar area" of the restaurant (even though the hostesses seem to default to trying to seat us there).

All that to say, there is no reason that I would ever need to leave a handgun in the car. I have even carried openly into the police station to renew my CPL. When I worked in a federal building in a downtown area I used a lock-box with a cable. I didn't like its level of security but it was better than nothing and would have made theft of my handgun a lot more time consuming. I'm glad to be out of that situation now.
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Old 10-12-2015, 10:58 AM
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Guns are expensive. I've got one gun (actually three or four, individually) that equals the price of the largest, most expensive safe I saw at Cabela's last week . . . Any five of mine would approach that same price point. Think safes are expensive now?
Again, are we talking an actual safe or a residential security container? Keep in mind that they're not the same; Underwriters Laboratories typically rates the latter for only 5 minutes against attacks from common hand tools and drilling. A thief can break into one in even less time than that if it's not bolted to the floor.

If we're trying to make the point that if someone can't afford a safe, they're an "irresponsible" firearm owner, we're essentially saying that firearm ownership is a "rich man's" hobby.

Most big box RSCs provide little more security than a locked glove compartment. This is not an exaggeration.

The best "security system" resides between our ears. Own a firearm? DON'T ADVERTISE. Don't tell anyone you do not explicitly trust that you own them, and don't put firearm related stickers on your vehicle.
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Old 10-12-2015, 11:21 AM
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Again, are we talking an actual safe or a residential security container? Keep in mind that they're not the same; Underwriters Laboratories typically rates the latter for only 5 minutes against attacks from common hand tools and drilling. A thief can break into one in even less time than that if it's not bolted to the floor.

If we're trying to make the point that if someone can't afford a safe, they're an "irresponsible" firearm owner, we're essentially saying that firearm ownership is a "rich man's" hobby.

Most big box RSCs provide little more security than a locked glove compartment. This is not an exaggeration.

The best "security system" resides between our ears. Own a firearm? DON'T ADVERTISE. Don't tell anyone you do not explicitly trust that you own them, and don't put firearm related stickers on your vehicle.
A: I know the difference between a safe and a metal box.

B: If you don't want it stolen, secure it properly. I don't put a $500 pistol in a $5 holster either.
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Old 10-12-2015, 11:23 AM
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Philosophically speaking, how can your gun(s) ever be totally safe & secure if stored in a vehicle when the vehicle itself can be so easily stolen?
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Old 10-12-2015, 01:26 PM
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A: I know the difference between a safe and a metal box.
Good. Then you also know that most "safes" sold in Big Box stores are, in actuality, "metal boxes" (i.e. Residential Security Containers). I will also surmise that you know that a safe doesn't use sheet metal construction with drywall sandwiched in between it.

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B: If you don't want it stolen, secure it properly. I don't put a $500 pistol in a $5 holster either.
A thief can't steal something he doesn't know or have reason to believe exists. The "Gray Man" concept applies here. Only the most determined thieves are going to go through the trouble of ransacking a random vehicle with no valuables in plain view or "flags" like gun stickers. The odds of being robbed decrease even more if that vehicle has an active security system.

If you want your sidearm to be theft-proof, why bother carrying at all? Just leave it at home in your "safe."
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Old 10-12-2015, 01:42 PM
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I generally do not leave a gun in the car. However, I wonder if there's correlation between theft and carry laws. I live in Arizona, and the only time I've ever had anything stolen out of a vehicle was when I left it unlocked with the windows down. It wasn't gun, it was a stereo. In Hawaii, where it is unlawful to carry a gun under any circumstances, the following sign is commonplace at public places such as parks and parking lots. "High theft area. Do not leave belongings in your vehicle." Actually, in Hawaii you can carry a gun between your home and a shooting range if it is unloaded and in the trunk of your car.
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Old 10-12-2015, 03:09 PM
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I have a center console vault in my Jeep and really like it. I fits in the console perfect and is bolted in from the inside. Don
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Old 10-12-2015, 08:55 PM
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Glock 19 has been in the glovebox of my truck for the past 15 years... a great many vehicles in this neck of the woods have guns in em. It's just not something folks fret much about.

In Tennessee, no carry permit is required to keep a loaded handgun in the vehicle. Obviously, that means leaving the gun in the car because it's illegal to carry it without a permit.

As posted earlier, keep valuables out of sight and lock your car.
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Old 10-13-2015, 10:53 AM
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Just FYI, here's a link to a story on the shootings referenced by the OP. Three "drifters" have been arrested and charged.

Note that the firearm was stolen from "a lock box inside an unlocked civilian vehicle."

Alleged drifter killers charged, face possible death penalty in Marin County
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Old 10-13-2015, 11:09 AM
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Just FYI, here's a link to a story on the shootings referenced by the OP. Three "drifters" have been arrested and charged.

Note that the firearm was stolen from "a lock box inside an unlocked civilian vehicle."

Alleged drifter killers charged, face possible death penalty in Marin County
It's always good to get the 'Paul Harvey" on these things.
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Old 10-13-2015, 11:38 AM
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Console Vault | Buy Direct For Lowest Price + Free Shipping

I have one of these in my vehicle. It installs in about a minute.
It is around $275.00, but it is one of the best investments I
have ever made. I feel confident that if and when I have to
leave my gun in my vehicle, it will be there when I return.

Stu
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Old 10-13-2015, 11:51 AM
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"... but a locked car is not much of a deterrent. '



Here is a current story. I'll quote some highlights within.

Police said last week that they had arrested five people, all current or former Kirkwood residents who admitted to more than 200 thefts from vehicles and the theft of more than 15 vehicles.

Each of the stolen vehicles had vehicle keys left in the car left by the owners, police said. All of the vehicles were recovered.

None of the vehicles were actually broken into, either, police said — the vehicles were left unlocked.



4 charged in rash of more than 200 thefts from unlocked cars in St. Louis County : News

-----------------------------------

The idea here is to reduce the likelihood of your car being targeted. You can see here that unlocked cars were attractive for thieves.
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Old 10-13-2015, 11:58 AM
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Welcome to life in the U.S. of A. 2015.
Guys, I apologize for my last post that showed a video with inappropriate language despite my NSFW warning. It just seemed so appropriate to the discussion. I don't condone that type of language or use it myself. Post has been removed by mods.
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Old 10-13-2015, 01:33 PM
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Console Vault | Buy Direct For Lowest Price + Free Shipping

I have one of these in my vehicle. It installs in about a minute.
It is around $275.00, but it is one of the best investments I
have ever made. I feel confident that if and when I have to
leave my gun in my vehicle, it will be there when I return.

Stu
That is the one I posted above about I really like mine. You don't even know it it there till you open the console lid.
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Old 10-24-2015, 08:30 PM
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That is the one I posted above about I really like mine. You don't even know it it there till you open the console lid.
"Installs in about a minute...."

I'm from Missouri: SHOW ME..................
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Old 05-18-2017, 11:32 AM
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Reviving an old thread simply to report that I just purchased and installed a console safe from Lock'er Down in San Antonio, TX and couldn't be more pleased (unless it had been gifted to me).

Installs in five minutes and provides reasonably good insurance and peace of mind for those times when one must temporarily secure a gun or personal item away from home.

Worth considering, imho. I'm glad I did. They offer LE and mil discounts. Call for further info. (I have no connection to the company other than as a satisfied, paying customer.)

The unit I purchased has a 4 digit combo lock but here is a stock photo:



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Old 05-18-2017, 12:41 PM
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These set of circumstances may be the only ones where [securing] a semiautomatic pistol that has a magazine disconnect safety is advantageous. Store pistol in vehicle; keep magazine[s] with you.
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Old 05-18-2017, 01:01 PM
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3/16th inch of glass is not a good security barrier to keep a gun behind. On the flip side, a bad guy will always carry out his crime no matter where he gets the weapon from.
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Old 05-18-2017, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Stu1205 View Post
Console Vault | Buy Direct For Lowest Price + Free Shipping

I have one of these in my vehicle. It installs in about a minute.
It is around $275.00, but it is one of the best investments I
have ever made. I feel confident that if and when I have to
leave my gun in my vehicle, it will be there when I return.

Stu
Good stuff.
We have these in our vehicles. Well made and thought out product. Installation time was 3 minutes for the car and 10 minutes for the pick-up.
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Old 05-18-2017, 03:16 PM
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These heinous acts are not the fault of the inanimate object used

These heinous acts are not the fault of the person that had the inanimate object used stolen from them

These heinous acts are exclusively the fault of the SICK, EVIL PERSON that carried them out


When a SICK, EVIL PERSON wants to commit a crime of violence and can not get his/her hands on a gun, they will use a machete, knife, baseball bat, chainsaw, bomb, car, airplane, can of gasoline or whatever else is handy.

Let's keep the blame where the blame belongs
I agree with all of the above. I also believe in the axiom that the only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing. 30 years ago a .38 revolver lived in the seat pocket of my truck and a .303 British rifle hung next to the snow brush in the back window. I do neither today, simply because I want to make it as hard on thieves as I possibly can. That's why there is a safe secured to one of my vehicle supports...that and the fact that I like my guns and want to keep them.
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Old 05-18-2017, 03:26 PM
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Default A vehicle is the worst......

A vehicle is the worst place to leave a gun. People break into cars mainly for the purpose of stealing guns because so many people keep them there.
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Old 05-18-2017, 04:37 PM
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A 65 mile one way drive to work as a truck driver led me to leave my pistol locked and out sight in my vehicle when arriving at work. I unloaded and locked my mags in my work locker in a lunch box. My vehicle was under lot cam surveillance.
Rules and laws forced this situation and fortunately everything worked out.
As a rule I think I think it is ill advised but is sometimes necessary.
I try to make sure my vehicle does not display anything that might attract a gun thief. And as always hope for the best.
Jim

Last edited by jimbo728; 05-18-2017 at 04:38 PM.
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Old 05-19-2017, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blues7 View Post
Reviving an old thread simply to report that I just purchased and installed a console safe from Lock'er Down in San Antonio, TX and couldn't be more pleased (unless it had been gifted to me).

Installs in five minutes and provides reasonably good insurance and peace of mind for those times when one must temporarily secure a gun or personal item away from home.

Worth considering, imho. I'm glad I did. They offer LE and mil discounts. Call for further info. (I have no connection to the company other than as a satisfied, paying customer.)

The unit I purchased has a 4 digit combo lock but here is a stock photo:



They are good for a smash and grab, but I have a friend who's was broken into while eating lunch at a Restaurant. His is in an F250 and apparently a cordless sawzall was used to cut the cam. He said it didn't take the thief long at all. He didn't have a gun inside at the time since he was carrying. It's a shame that now we have to consider cordless power tools used by thieves. A few years back it was common around here to come out to your car in a parking lot and find your catalytic converter missing. Also from a cordless sawzall. It's hard to stay a step ahead, but anything to buy a little time will help in most cases. Glad I am rarely in a position that I have to leave a gun in my vehicle.
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:02 AM
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Hence my remark:
Quote:
provides reasonably good insurance and peace of mind for those times when one must temporarily secure a gun or personal item away from home.
I don't think my cordless reciprocating saw would make particularly quick nor quiet work of it...but then I wouldn't leave a gun in the safe overnight or for a long period of time, especially in an area with little chance of a break-in being seen or reported.
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