I have one other qualification - it must not have that stupid lock!

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K & N S&W revolvers

Yeah I don't know why in the heck S&W doesn't offer 9mm in J&K frames (547) with moons. Seems like wth the hot CHL market, they'd fly off shelves.

I would give consideration to the noise factor. A gunshot inside a vehicle or an enclosed room would give hearing loss, possibly disorientation. As in anything magnum. My house guns are a 9mm, a .357 loaded to 1000 fps but, the primary is a shotgun

The shotgun is much louder than any handgun. Perhaps you had too much coffee! Semper Fi!

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Coffee Makes Life Better

From the chart at this link: How loud is your gun (in Db)

20GA shotgun: 153
12GA shotgun: 155

45ACP: 157
38Spec: 158
9mm: 160
357Mag: 164

.223 Rifle: 155

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K & N S&W revolvers

In comparing the virtues of various calibers, using hollow point ammo: it is absolutely undeniable that, while a 9 mm or .40 S&W may or may not expand, a .45 will never shrink.

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Memory of Randy Freas-Rimfired

Or course, the loudness has to depend in the gun (barrel length) and on the particular load fired.

Load yes, but barrel length no. Unless you're outside, the length of the barrel is insignificant.

Outside, the longer barrel of a shotgun or rifle puts the muzzle further away from the shooter. Because there are no walls to bounce off of, the sound will dissipate more. Since it starts further away, it seems quieter.

Inside, it doesn't make as much difference. Yes, the initial sound is further away, but the sound coming off the walls will still be dramatic. Sorry, I don't have any test data confirming this, but it makes sense.

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Freedom isn't free.

I didn't read the thread. Oh boy another which caliber is best thread. My answer, the one you're best with. A .22 in the eye beats a .44 in the arm.

A .45 can shrink. It's called jacket-core separation or fragmentation. The .45 is not magically immune to either.

Besides the truth value of the statement I find it to be obnoxious and unhelpful to the discussion.

Which rod & reel, bait combo is most lethal to fish?
The one that works best for you in whatever body of water you happen to be in.

For carrying daily, with modern ammo, I think it's parsing trifles to bench race loadings in .38 Spl, .357 Mag, 40 S&W, .357 Sig, .45 ACP or 9mm - the best hot loadings in each caliber, with multiple follow up shoots accurately placed will likely carry the day.

But for home defense? I'd much rather have an older 870 loaded with #00 Buck or even an M1 carbine for that matter. At home, on my turf with the ability to make my own response plan? Why use unleash a pitbull when you can unleash a grizzly bear (so to speak)....

I shot a empty steel air supply tank from a 18 wheeler. The 357mag dimpled it, the 44mag dented it. The 30-06 went through it broadside with a missile, bullet shape sideways.

Home protection? 12ga pump slug, 00, slug, 00, slug, 00 in the tube. Riot barrel.

I have a black bear problem a 9mm would tickle him.(400lbs)

In the house: AR with duty ammo. Hands down. Easier to shoot well, more effective, less likely to penetrate typical house/apartment walls than any handgun ammo.

Handgun ammo: it has been established by objective testing that there is no significant performance difference between the common auto-pistol service calibers (9/.357Sig/.40/45acp). Most of the recent development work has been on those calibers due to their prevalence in LE. Little if any development work is being down on most revolver rounds, with the exception of the few loads worked on in .38 special (the gold dot developed for NYPD in particular). Buy what caliber you want, in whatever platform you want, and get a load that passes the testing (see Dr. Robert's list, which is the only reason to go to ARFcom, as it is the only site of which I am aware that it is posted openly).

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NHI, 10-8.

Here is an interesting empirical study of stopping power. Changed my thinking on the topic.

Worth reading.

An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power | Buckeye Firearms Association

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I like Ike.

Just one example: .357 Magnum ammunition is commonly available in 110-158 grain bullet weights (I'm leaving out specialty and oddball weights). It is commonly shot from 2-6 inch barrels. There are also two commonly encountered power levels in the .357 Magnum ammunition that is sold for defensive purposes (medium-velocity and full-power).

Now, how valuable is a "study" that lumps all of them together and throws in .357 Sig as well?

That study is useless for picking either a caliber or ammunition.

Originally Posted by Mickey D
In comparing the virtues of various calibers, using hollow point ammo: it is absolutely undeniable that, while a 9 mm or .40 S&W may or may not expand, a .45 will never shrink.

I'm not sure exactly why you find Mickey D's statement obnoxious. It is certainly a relevant reminder, therefore helpful, even if it is effectively not completely true. I say that it is effectively not completely true, because ball ammo in a situation where the bullet does not deform might as well have shrunk to a lesser caliber. It will not generally leave a full-caliber wound channel. This is one reason why flat-faced or hollow-point bullets are probably a better choice if penetration is sufficient.

Whatever caliber you need the ability to make quick/accurate followup shots in case one doesn't do the job or there may be more than one perp.

I've decided that if I have to pull the trigger once, I'm not going to stop there.

I don't use big guns in the house. I use a low end .357 that is like an atomic +P.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Whatever caliber you need the ability to make quick/accurate followup shots in case one doesn't do the job or there may be more than one perp.

I've decided that if I have to pull the trigger once, I'm not going to stop there.

I don't use big guns in the house. I use a low end .357 that is like an atomic +P.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Whatever caliber you need the ability to make quick/accurate followup shots in case one doesn't do the job or there may be more than one perp.

I've decided that if I have to pull the trigger once, I'm not going to stop there.

I don't use big guns in the house. I use a low end .357 that is like an atomic +P.

I think improvements in bullet design have made the smaller calibers more effective and the big ones even better.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

All of the calibers are equally likely to "may expand" and "not shrink" given equal quality ammunition. The way it is phrased separates the calibers into two different categories as if there was a fundamental difference in the wound ballistics between them.

Krinkov in 7.62x39mm.

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CPT, Armor (Ret)
Luke 22:36

They did a few years ago, and obviously the 9mm revolvers didn't sell well or they would still be offered.

I have an LCR 9mm bought 10 months ago. I like it, but the recoil is between a 38 special +P and a 357 magnum.

Plus you have to be careful about crimp jump.

The biggest advantage of 9mm in a revolver is cheaper practice ammo. Otherwise, 38 special is just as good and offers a wider range of power levels.

Best caliber for self defense is the one you can hit the bullseye.

Russ

Hmm, didn't know that. The crimp jump issue makes sense.

I shoot almost no factory ammo so I can't comment on power levels, but it seems like the 9 would have the edge, given the SAAMI pressure limit is 2x that of .38 +P.

Shot placement is more important than Caliber.
If a Person cant shoot straight then it doesn't matter what Caliber Bullet They are shooting.

Yes here to price wise,Around here 40 cal is running about the same as 9mm.I have been doing my best work with 40.

One thing to consider if the gun is to be used for home defense is that you should consider not using Magnum Loads. You will all lose your hearing if you do, and it can over penetrate and go through a lot of interior material.

If you want to keep a revolver, get a .357 Magnum revolver, but have your house load be .38spcl.

A Glock or M&P in 9mm is a good choice. Great all around guns there.

.45acp is a good choice as well, with many options from Glock, to Dozens of 1911s.

If you want a rail and a light/laser ON your gun, there are considerations there as well.

I'm a medium size guy with medium size hands so I practice with a medium size gun with medium size rounds, 17 of them. and I practice every week.

I am not an expert by any means compared to many here. I learned to shoot a revolver w/Dad at grasshoppers on RR ties in IL many years ago. The .357/.38 Spl seems to fit me best.

Still shooting the 5906 purchased new 200 years ago with...bettering accuracy...I think. In a defensive situation the revolver fits and I love .357 and .38 Spl. Shoot what you like...it's the USA!

Just another opinion:

45ACP has been doing the job over 100 years,

and was specifically designed, by JMB himself, to

be a man-stopper. It's especially made slower, and

wider, for the sole purpose of spending it's terminal

energy to put a person down. Most reports, from usage,

for that purpose, state that one round usually puts a

person down, and they stay down. IME, even

novice shooters use a 1911 passably well, and many

seem to prefer it.

Of course, if you're really committed, maybe a .44

Magnum is your cup of tea. But it's probably not for the

average shooter, it brags @4X the powder driving a similar

size projectile as the .45ACP, with a predictable difference

in results. Of course, you are dealing with a larger pistol,

heavier recoil, and remarkably higher muzzle blast and flip,

with a .44...

Indoors I load my .357 with very low end .357 charges. We want to keep our hearing.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

My response was a type of euphemism, specifically that of loaded language. (no pun intended) Lighten up.

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Memory of Randy Freas-Rimfired

I shoot my Tanfoglio Mod TZ75 Model 88 9/41 overall the best but it is strictly a range gun with 3 1/2 pound trigger .. and I believe the gun itself is more accurate then either of my other 2 ..

I probably shoot my 40c better then my Beretta PX4 Sub Compact in 9mm for my carry weapons by 1/2 an inch in 10 round groups at 30 feet so not a big difference though like everyone I am faster with the 10 rounds of 9mm as target acquisition is slightly faster .

But for the caliber that is the best ?? The one I am wearing at the time .. With modern ammunition there is little difference in stopping power between the 2 most common rounds the 9mm and 40 S&W ..

I feel equally confident in carrying either caliber in a self defense HP round ..

I will shoot 12 Ga loads out of 18" and 20" bbl shotguns all day long without ears before I'd shoot most handguns for an hour w/o ear protection. Few things are up there with a 4" 125-gr 357 Mag load when it comes to noise IMO.

This is one of the best studies of handgun stopping power around. Ultimately, the one in your hand that you shoot best is what you will need.

An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power | Buckeye Firearms Association

The round that kills the bad guy definitely has the edge.

The study has many fatal flaws so no useful conclusions can be drawn. Mr. Ellifritz admits many of those flaws in his conclusion. For instance all 9mm are dropped in one bin. The 9mm can be shot in 3" pistols to 16" carbines in standard pressure, +P, and +P+ in bullet weights from 70 grains to 158 grains in bullet designs from lead to FMJ ball to softpoints to frangible to fluted to hollowpoints of widely varying reliability and penetration/expansion tradeoffs. The human body is quite heterogeneous so it is not sufficient to classify hits as head, torso, or extremities; far more precise data about the internal damage is required. He was also unable to differentiate between quits and incapacitations.

The accuracy and volume of the data required are so vast I do not believe it is possible to perform a valid study of this type.

I don't obsess over the issue, but bbl length and muzzle blast indeed DO make a difference, sometimes. 2.5in full power .357, 2.75in full power .44 mag and 10.5in 5.56 are all really, really, really LOUD. Painful, ears ringing for hours LOUD.

Simple answer to OP question- Whatever *at least .38 spl +P* that YOU can shoot reasonably accurately, reasonably quickly.

Historic context answer - Back when I had hair, I would have quickly answered full power 125gr jhp .357 mag from 4in or longer bbl. And still confident that was correct answer at the time. In recent era, any of the better loads from .45acp, .40SW, .357Sig, 9mm +P, +P+ , are close enough to round off to a tie at the top.

Police trade in .40 M&P, Glock, and SIG handguns are available dirt cheap right now. If I were starting from scratch now, I would choose one of these.
I am issued a Glock 23 3rd gen and am very satisfied with it. Any decent .40 hollow point will most likely do the job if you do yours.

looking at the charts in this article on average one would need to fire 2-3 rounds to incapacitate the BG and that is what many of the self defense drills teach .. 2 to the body 1 to the head ..

I would have liked to see a break down on the 1 shot stops by how many were body verses how many head shots !

Am surprised the S&W40 did so well only the 44 magnum beat it in 1 shot stops with the 357 both rounds coming in a close
3rd ! The 45 finished in the middle of the pack on the one shot stops which I think is flawed ..

But whether flawed or not was very interesting to see the results of the surveys he did ..

Your "go to" gun you have fired thousands of rounds through should work just fine.

Terminal Ballistics - A Morgue View (Long) in THEE RANT Forum

Here is a link that is from a person who works in the morgue and his thoughts on stopping power. Serious stuff that will make you laugh.