There is a recent interesting thread on carry rotations.

I have a related question.

Assuming you carry the same gun all the time, say a J frame revolver, do you change ammo based on season/weather?

For example, use a hollow point for summer where people are wearing light clothing/tee shirts.

And then in the winter something like full wadcutters that might penetrate better through heavy jackets.

Or do most people just go with the same load all the time?

Same, a quality modern jhp. In 38 Hornady 110gr+P CD or Speer 135gr+P GD and in 9mm Speer 124+P GD.

The SD rounds I use were videoed penetrating through 2 layers of denim and 12-18 inches of ballistic gel. Good enough for me.

I ordinarily consider a "winter load" the best all year 'round, but I might, given sufficient reason, consider a "summer load" in the summer.

I consider your question a very good one, but I think that it is difficult for most people, certainly difficult for me, to answer it competently without knowing results of gelatin tests, perhaps using the FBI protocol, which is probably one of the better ones, but so expensive that they are probably about the only folks outside of a few ammo manufacturers who do it.

Same the year around for me, .38 Special 158gr. LSWCHP, the standard-pressure Buffalo Bore gas-checked load which chronographs nearly identically with the old Remington +P FBI load.

I may try the Speer SB Gold Dot 135gr. +P, but if so I'll also carry it in all seasons.

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Oh well, what the hell.

I carry the Federal 158gr. LSWC-HP .38 Special "FBI" load in my Smith 36-"no dash" 365 days/yr.

I don't really expect anything or anyone to shrug one of those off unless they're wearing a ballistic vest, which our garden variety hoodlums here rarely do.

Federal HST year round.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

If people change bullets according to the season they should also carry two guns. One with bullets for skinny people that won't over penetrate and another with bullets for big fat people that will need more penetration. One should always be prepared with the proper equipment. Larry

Inasmuch as LEO's don't do so I suggest there is not much reason for armed citizens to do it.

Be safe.

The ammo in my carry guns (on and off duty) is regulated by department policy: 230gr T-Series for the Glock 21s and 127gr +P+ T-Series for the 9mm.

The "Heavy winter clothing" issue I don't believe is as much of an issue with the .45 because of the size of the hp cavity than it is with the 9mm which has a much smaller hp cavity. The deer I shot with the .45 had a good 1/2" layer of hair and some thick skin to go through before hitting vitals and all the rounds expanded perfectly (I know it's not 4 layers of denim, but I couldn't convince the deer to put on 4 pairs of pants first).

And I don't know how much faith I put in the "4 layers of denim test." 4 layers of heavy denim, packed tightly across the face of the gelatin block is not what I see actual people wearing in the winter. What I see is more like a couple of sweatshirts and a hoodie or a puffy jacket and it's not all tightly packed against the skin, except maybe on someone's thighs, and I'm not shooting for someone's thighs.

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Don

One good load year round. For instance, what you are comfortable with to penetrate winter garb - I would use it year round.

The summer/winter carry debate is one that has arisen with the Internet.

Don't buy into it, unless the criminals wear Kevlar winter jackets in your area. If they do, start practicing headshots.

I use the same ammo year round. Federal HST. Here in Central Texas, I would be switching ammo on a daily basis during the Winter, if I went by the weather.

Or maybe a knob on the gun where you can adjust the power of the ammo right before firing.

Possibly whip out a tape measure and check the dimensions of the bad guy before adjusting the knob.

The sounds like something the California legislature would come up with.

I carry a bodyguard 380 and I load lehigh extreme penetrater as rounds all year round.they are a scalloped headed fmj.the scalloping on the round allows it to penetrate to fbi standards through 4 layers of denim while creating a larger wound cavity.so with this round you get the best of both worlds of a penetration of a fmj and wound cavity of a hollowpoint.I have not shot this through my gun yet but testing has shown it feeds well into the bodyguard.

One good load all year round. 147 grain HST for me.


I have not found any evidence that the fluting is effective. If you are aware of any studies or wound ballistics experts that state it is I would like to know about it.

From the test(s) I've seen the round tends to tumble, thus creating a slightly larger wound track than a FMJ.

The actual gel testing starts at 2:30

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Don

The flutes are supposed to "spray" flesh outward causing permanent damage beyond the tissue directly crushed by the bullet. That's what I was referring to. I can't find any support for that idea actually working.

When the bullet hits it's going to be rotating. This could make the flutes act almost like a drill bit.

I don't see how this is any better than a normal expanding bullet which is also rotating when it hits, however.

But, but, but . . . what if you have your winter loads in your gun and you're in the mall where it's warm and the BG has his jacket off? Can you still shoot?

I think the seasonal ammo thing is much about nothing. Kind of like stories of the .30 carbine rounds supposedly bouncing off of Chinese soldiers wearing quilted jackets in Korea. You got to hit 'em first, until then nothing else much matters.

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- Change it back -

I found this Winchester 40sw 180g Personal Protection to be real effective that I stocked up on them along with the 9mm PPs.

The price is hard to beat.

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_It was love at first shot_

When I first got into Law Enforcement, HP ammo was hard to get and expensive. I carried a 1911 with Ball, usually, but with HP Super Vels working around a crowd, like a football game. I hoped that if I shot a bad guy with the HP it would not exit. I never had to find out. I was paying about $5 a box for Ball and $14 for Super Vels, if I remember right(?)

Back then we were cutting crosses on our cast bullets (38sp/357mag).

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_It was love at first shot_

Remember doing that with 22lr way back when .. That was a long time ago .. had forgotten we had done that as a kid ..

I use the same ammunition in my revolvers and pistols year round, which really means the same variety, as I typically have at least 2-3 brands at hand for each caliber.

I'm not exactly married to some brand, bullet weight or particular bullet design. I don't mind using pretty much any of the "premium" loads offered by the major American makers, of the lines they've developed and continually refined for LE and/or defensive roles.

I have some occasional preferences when it comes to some bullet weights or pressure levels, and like to function test loads I've not yet tried in a particular gun before carrying them, to make sure they work as desired, but I'm no longer the same sort of caliber and ammo snob I was when I was a younger man.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

LEO's don't change . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

No I don't change ammo due to a change in the seasons or what people are wearing..

I carry Western Train and Defend. In my 40c, 40 S&W 180 grain, velocity at 5 yards is 921 or in my Beretta PX4 9mm subcompact, 9mm 147 grain, velocity at 5 yards 946 .. I'm confidant that both rounds will expand properly going thru several layers of clothing !

I live in North Texas. We have summer, 3 days of fall, 3 months of 50-85 degree weather, about 2 weeks of winter (randomly mixed in on about 3 occasions during the aforementioned 50-85 months) , and 3 days of spring. During our two weeks of winter it's ice and we all just stay home. Its not worth it to rotate ammo for me.

I'm going to be the odd one out because I do change what ammo is in my regular carry gun with the seasons. I carry a model 640 J Frame. During most of the time it's a JHP self defense round in 38 Special, I've used several, what is in the gun depends on what I have available.

However, during lambing and during fall I switch to a heavier hotter solid round, a 357. The reason is that at those times I am more likely to have to either hit a marauding predator or kill a sheep in distress. Sheep heads are hard, and I want to be absolutely sure that it works first time. For the predators I want to be sure I get enough penetration to do damage. I change based on what was suggested by the local game warden.

J frame = 158 grain +P FBI Load; .380 M&P = 90 grain HPR hollow point, all seasons, both guns. The .38 is based on 30 years street experience while the .380 is based on internet research, such as it is.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)