Yesterday I was headed home from work and was driving a little faster than I should have been when I passed a city police cruiser.

I looked in the rear view mirror just in time to see him turn around and hit "the lights".

As I pulled over I thought about all of you guys that suggest informing the officer that I am carrying a firearm and keeping my hands in plain sight on the steering wheel. By the way, It is not required in this state to inform an officer that you are carrying unless you are asked.

So, when he gets to my opened window, I handed him my drivers license and insurance card and as I put my hands on the steering wheel at the 11 and 1 o'clock positions I said "I am carrying a concealed firearm".

The officer kinda looked at me and wrinkled up his nose and forehead as if to say "Who cares". then he shook his head and kinda shruged his shoulders and didn't ever say anything about my gun. He asked me if I knew why he stopped me and all of the other usual questions and said Wait here and I will be right back.

A few minutes later he came back and said he had a written warning for me and to watch the speed limit signs closer and to have a happy Thanksgiving. I thanked him and went on about my business.

This confirmed my belief that all cops are not paranoid that everyone with a gun is just waiting for the opportunity to shoot them. He was just a normal guy doing his job like everyone else and to him I was just a normal guy trying to get home like most other people.

It's not part of the story, but Is it just me getting old, or do almost all police officers look like they are about 14 years old?

Thanks for listening
Wingmaster

That's about what I would expect in Wyoming.

I agree with you about gittin' old.. Do you realize there are 7th and 8th grade age kids attending the University?

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Eccentric old coot

Your right Iggy.

What happend to these kids did they forget to grow up?

Wingmaster

Great story and yes, this group of cops all look like they're fourteen years old. I retired in '97 after 30 years on the job and I'm sure the older guys said the same about us back then.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

If I'm not required I say nothing. Telling a cop you're armed is a crapshoot, sometimes the cop doesn't care sometimes you get an earful of GLOCK and once you open your mouth you can't go back.

If I'm asked or otherwise required to inform I say nothing and simply hand them my permit

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Retired Career Security Guard

It would be a happy, happy day that an LEO gives me an earful of Glock merely because I am lawfully carrying a firearm in my vehicle. Oh please, please, please. Much easier than winning the Lotto.

I think I was about 14 when I hired on.

Dude, you're in Wyoming. Last time I was there hunting, people carried in the gas stations while buying soda before going back to their truck where they still had an openly carried rifle that I assumed had the magazine loaded.

Since Wyoming has constitutional carry, you probably should notify the officer if you aren't carrying. Maybe he'll take pity on you and figure that you can't afford a ticket if you can't afford a gun.

Smoke, This was pretty much the response I expected. I just thought about what others have posted and it got me to thinking.

In my neck of the woods I really don't think any of the law enforcement officers are too worried about things like that. They all seem to be more professional than that. even if they do look like they are 14 years old.

I'm betting that the older guys would more than likely visit about how our hunting seasons are going than anything else.

I love living in Wyoming

Wingmaster

I had this happen twice. Both times I got a warning. I was in my early 20s.

The first time I was driving 50+ in a 25. Got caught in,a speed trap and pulled into a school. Guns on school property here is a felony. Told the cop I had a gun and a permit. He asked for my DL, insurance and permit. Two min later I got a warning.

2nd time I wasn't going as fast but pretty fast and after it rained. My drivers window didn't work. He asked me to roll down the window, I told him I couldn't and had to open the door. Stepped out and told him about my gun and permit. He took my documents and 2 minutes later I got a warning.

I find that for the most part cops are aware of civilians carrying and generally react to your body language. I wasn't demanding, I knew I was speeding, and I didn't argue. I didn't give attitude by demanding to know why I was pulled over or anything. It is what it is and if I were to be arrested court is where I have to argue, not on the side of the road. If he gave me an "ear full of Glock" that's fine too cause it would all,go to court

When I was in high school it was pretty common to see a rifle in a rifle rack in the back window of a pickup in the high school parking lot. Usually the doors were also unlocked. You still see that from time to time around town.

Thanks for the idea on getting out of a ticket. I might just try that next time I get pulled over.

Wingmaster

I use to take my new guns into the gym to show the Coach. He would immediately call the Ag Teacher and the Principal to come over and take a look.

School closed down for the opening day of elk season. All of the high school boys, some of the girls, and teachers were gone.

Bein' in the biggest graduating class in the history of the school, 13, might have had something to do with it.

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Eccentric old coot

Here in Ohio You have to notify a Officer that You have a Concealed Cary License and You have a Firearm.If no Firearm there is no need to notify about the License.

As a Texas CHL instructor for 15 years and a Range Officer at a very busy outdoor shooting range I was given the opportunity to hear hundreds of Officer stops. They range everywhere from a shrug to a panic attack!

Some were asked to surrender their weapons and they were unloaded. However most Police Officers realized that the background checks that these people went thru reduced their threat level!

In modern America I am afraid that most anything can and will happen. In my experience most police officers are pro carry permit!

I haven't been stopped (YET)
However my plan is to turn off the engine, roll all my car windows down (electric windows), put both hand on the steering wheel palms up), and say nothing. If at night I will switch on the dome light.
Most Agencies officers are ok with this and have good attitudes, HOWEVER, if it is FHP be prepared for rudeness, not all FHP Troopers but most. I think this rudeness is a taught class in FHP Academy.

+1 for FHP. iv'e done it both ways and had a much better time when i didn't tell the trooper. when i did, it was night on alligator alley, and it was a very young trooper. he did not draw his weapon, but the stress level rose 10 fold. he did put his hand on his pistol, blade himself away from me, and raise his voice to tell me to not move and keep my hands where he could see them. i had pulled over quickly, did the window dome light thing, kept my hands on the wheel, and when asked told him i was "carrying a legally concealed firearm in a holster on my right hip, OWB." the other trooper never asked. my wife wasn't so pleased i didn't volunteer any info. i told her there was no legal need as he didn't inquire. i got a frowny face reply. in FL, you only have to tell if they ask.

I worked as a deputy sheriff for 30 years. Then there were no concealed carry permits, and the job was a great deal safer than it is today. I always use the golden rule in my work and elsewhere. In the past few years a number of Topeka Police officers have died from gunshots. The TPD started a media campaign instructing people that were stopped to put their hands on the dash or top of the seat or headrest if riding in rear seats, and not move them. I have had contact with the widow of the last officer slain. I would not wish what they are going through on anyone. KS has constitutional carry and I strongly support it, in fact I worked toward it's passage. There is still a permit available if one travels to another state that has a reciprocity agreement with KS. Evil people have always carried guns, they are who we need to worry about. In the city backup is usually close, not so in the county where deputies are on their own for a while and they know it. This is a little off topic, but it relates to the fact that most people are armed here. The good ones and bad ones. Peace officers are trained to deal with both.

The person that thinks getting a cop's "Glock in the ear" would be better than winning the lottery should rethink that position. You can sue anyone, winning is a much more difficult proposition and if you do win, the amount you get will mostly go to the attorney.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

Agreed. I remember a time when people use to have dreams and goals and wanted to accomplish things in life by actually making a good honest living. Now it seems folks dream about suing someone. Especially someone like today's policeman, who is having to watch his back in a way I never came close to worrying about. Oh well, to each their own I guess. I'll still strive to earn mine the old fashioned way.

^^^ Excellent post sir ^^^

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- Change it back -

I was pulled over just a few months ago.

I reckon the target stand with shot-up targets in the back of my pickup probably gave the LEO a clue I might have been armed. He never asked about a gun. I never said anything about a gun. No seatbelt, no current registration, no insurance card... no ticket.

Where ya live and your attitude have a lot to do with all this kinda stuff.

This ^

Why people get militant when getting pulled over is beyond me. So you ran a stop or were speeding a little. Big deal. People act like they are crossing E. Germany

In Michigan, we have a duty to report that we are licensed to carry regardless if we are armed. They will eventually see it when they run your license and registration.

My coolest encounter was actually during the aftermath of an accident...I was stopped for a school bus and rear ended. When I informed the State Police Trooper who responded to the accident that I was licensed to carry, he asked if I was armed? I told him no, and he replied WHY NOT?

You are right Phil.

In the case above, I respected him and he respected me. No bad attitude on either part.

Wingmaster

This is probably more important than anything else in any encounter with another human. If we treat people with respect, unless they are truly evil, encounters are generally smooth.

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Freedom isn't free.

Sometimes during 'update' or 'sensitivity' training, the instructors will play the "Be nice ... Until it's time to not be nice," scene from ROADHOUSE, citing exactly what has already been mentioned - mutual respect.

At the start of ANY encounter (no matter which side I'm on at the time), I'm always friendly, not just polite. It tends to disarm, or catch off guard the person I'm dealing with, because most people don't expect a non-consensual encounter such as a traffic stop to be a 'friendly' experience. Not the LEO and not the driver and it requires a kind of mental shifting of gears from an "Oh Stuff" to a "maybe this isn't going to be that bad."

From the LEO side, I can escalate anytime I feel the need to. OR, I can just go blank on you ... Driver's License and insurance please ... here's your ticket ... slow down next time. I'd be a bit upset with that kind of response from an officer If I were pulled over (it would probably be speeding, it's my one vice), but really, what could I say about it? That he wasn't "Nice" when he gave me the ticket. The official response to that would be: Was he rude? was he out of line? Did he belittle you or swear at you? Violate your rights? The answer to all of those would be No, he just wasn't "nice".

This is basic stuff, taught in the academy, BUT it's not LEARNED until the new officer hits the street with a seasoned FTO (which is what I've been doing the past 15+ years) and they see there's no need to flex the badge all of the time. In fact, in the academy they tell you to go out and buy the smallest, softest badge you can find and always keep it with you. Because you're going to have people say "I'm gonna take that badge and shove it up your ###" And one day, you're going to run into the guy who CAN DO IT.

I went slightly off-track, but it is relative ... no cop wants a simple traffic stop to turn into the situation where the guy who can do it is the one he's dealing with. And in today's world, having your badge shoved "up there" doesn't just mean a butt whoopin at the side of the road that you CAN recover from, it can mean all sorts of legal nightmares that you'll NEVER recover from

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Don

All my traffic stops started off with a smile, introduction and a brief reason for the stop. I'd ratchet things up as necessary but it was seldom needed. When I got the "Why aren't you out catching a bank robber" thing I'd smile and say that was next on my list as soon as we were done. Sometimes the driver would laugh and other times they would just be quiet and compliant. Once the driver attacked me and we were rolling around in the gutter while everyone just drove by and ignored us. Fortunately the guy was so drunk I was able to get control pretty quickly, but you just never know when pulling someone over.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

In Ohio we are required to inform the LEO that we are carrying and have a CHL / CCW.

When the laws was relatively new here, a buddy was pulled over ,, informed the sheriff deputy, he had a CCW and spent the next half hour bent over the trunk of the car.
( it was a very funny story,, LMAO when he told it,,)

About a year later I was pulled over by a OSP officer. Handed him my driver license and CHL . He acted like he could have cared less. ( officer was very calm and polite)

re: young officers,
The last time I was pulled over by a OSP officer. He looked so young I wanted to ask if it was his after school job .. But, figured that wasn't a very good idea..
( I did sort of laugh to myself when I was saying Yes, Sir and No, Sir to the young man that didn't look like he was shaving yet ,,)

( Not to give you the idea I get pulled over quite a bit.. These two occasions were several years apart,, )

I live in Cheyenne and saw a great bumper sticker the other day: "Welcome to Wyoming. Consider Everyone Armed." I was stopped about 6 months ago on the way home from work on a rural highway for 61 in a 55. The State Patrol officer saw the Glock 23 I keep between the seat and console. He said, "I see you have a firearm there, please keep your hands away from it." He wrote me a warning. Helps that I am an old white guy driving a fairly new SUV, I suppose. He was polite but very brusque and no nonsense. I figure his last stop might have been a raging idiot, or he might have just helped pull a dead kid from a wreck caused by a speeding driver. Those who commented about the Golden Rule are spot on, whether dealing with police or anyone else.

I always keep my permit visible with my drivers license.
In new york you never know when the gun laws change,they seem to be changed constantly here sneaking in the back door.
So I just keep them both visible.
Only time i've ever been asked if I'm carrying was in a grocery store,he (the leo) seen the bulge above my belt and said,you got a hernia ,yup,38.....he just laughed , I do live in a small town in the Catskills.

Something we dont relate to about the LEOs is that the last time I checked they are doing a job that I wont do. I have the utmost respect for them because I have seen them at their best and worst. Got pulled over for running a red light about a month ago. I pulled over rolled down the window, put my hands on the steering and listened to my wife tell me I am gonna get a ticket blah blah blah. The Officer walked up to the side and shook his head and snickered a little. After a few minutes of business I then proceeded to ask about his daughter and how she was doing. Said I havent saw him since he held the flashlight while my son and I put his wheel back on his jeep. By the way he also dated my niece for about two years. Awesome Officer and all around nice guy. Nice stop and no ticket just a warning.

Now Most people get mad when they get pulled over but just remember all they are is doing a job that you wont do. Just listen to some of the stories that they tell. They tell you the happy and funny ones. The ones they dont tell are dark and haunting to even veteran Officers. We must also remember they are people just like us. Human Beings. They have family's, and they just want to get home and spend time with them. Just like us.

Having spent some time at the FHP Academy, I can attest that politeness is a major topic and practice during a cadet's time there. The attitude comes later after dealing with jerks who think they never do anything wrong. It is a learned behavior, learned from the people they have to deal with.

My experience with FHP, not stopped by the way, have been exceptionally polite, even though I know of one who would ticket his beloved grandmother.

You have to show damages to collect money in a civil suit. What exactly would the damages be when a cop pointed a gun at you because he thought you were a threat? Hurt feelings? There's a form for that.... Incidentally in "duty to inform" states, the "duty to inform" is not meant for officers' safety but rather for the pistol carrier. Too many times they forget to mention there's a gun in their waistband right about where they're reaching for their wallet. Or in the glove box, or in the center console. CPL laws, like the qualifications tests, are meant to cover the "lowest common denominator". There are a lot of idiots out there licensed to carry guns. The statute (in Michigan) says that they have to tell the cops they have a gun as a reminder to "themselves" that they're carrying a gun and not to reach for something in the area of where that gun might be so as to avoid being shot and creating paperwork and stress for the officer.

I believe that's incorrect.

I sure was scratching my head on this one. So I looked it up, and sure enough, the law was amended in 2008-2009 that apparently removed that portion of the language. I was licensed well before then, and apparently the 4 hour renewal classes have not left me with that new knowledge. I guess I'll rephrase my original statement that it's HIGHLY recemmended to disclose that you have a CPL even when you're not armed.

With all due respect, Why would you tell an officer you have a carry permit if you are not armed?

Wingmaster

I was a policeman and firearms instructor in MI for 30 years. There was never a requirement to inform that you had a CPL if not armed, only if and when you were armed during a police contact. Your 4-hour CPL class instructed you wrong. Which isn't all that uncommon....(It's not even "highly recommended" that you advise you're a CPL holder if you're not armed because there is absolutely no reason to. As I mentioned before, the "shall notify" thing is for your safety. If you don't have a gun on you, how does telling the cop "I have a cpl but no gun" make it any less likely for him to shoot you when he sees a gun that you forgot to mention you had on you....when you don't have a gun on you???)

The reason for informing of the CPL even when not armed, is that the LEO will learn this as soon as they run your drivers license. I know for a fact that LEO in and around my area think it's a duty to be informed, as my father was scolded by a Kent Co Sheriff Deputy for not informing him for being licensed following an accident? And he was not armed at that time. That was 6-7 years ago now.

Both times I've been pulled over since getting my CPL I have informed the officer that I had a CPL but was not carrying. I was thanked and let go with a warning after my license was called in.

I keep my hands on the steering wheel and have the window rolled down before they get to my car. That and notifying the officer you have a CPL before they call in your license keeps their stress level down and most of them are grateful, even if they don't show it.

My son was recently pulled over for an expired license plate. He informed the State Trooper that he had a handgun in the vehicle. The Trooper's response: "I'll make you a deal. You don't touch yours and I won't touch mine". They both laughed as he was given a warning and told to take care of the license first thing next day.

Dan

I've done a traffic stop or two in my career. (When I was a motor jock, it was not uncommon to do 30-40 a day.) I've also worked I don't know how many fatality accidents, spent some time working Family Violence cases, pretty much everything from criminal trespass to capitol murder. My rule for dealing with the public was always "I will be as nice to you as you will let me be." I've stopped many, many CHL holders in Texas, always told them the same thing: wherever it is, leave it there until we're done. It was never the CHL holder that I worried about.

Like CelticSire says, I too was as nice as they would let me be.

It's not the CC license holder that gonna throw down on you...

I get stopped on occasion, for failure to decelerate in those pesky lit'l speed zones...

I hand the officer my DLs, insurance card, sometimes my CC Lic. and
my state issued Miranda Warning card just for the fun of it....

The old salt jest laugh and the youngsters read it to themselves!


.

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

In Ohio, we know your CCW status as soon as we run your vehicle's license plate, long before we get out and make the approach.

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Don

What about out-of-staters? Do all states share that information with each other?

No, they don't share info. So, they wouldn't know if you're from another state.

More importantly, I'm sure we're all aware that government databases are infallible. Therefore, it makes good sense to proceed accordingly.

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Freedom isn't free.

I am not nor have I ever been a law enforcement officer, but I don't understand this "stress level" that has been refered to.

It seems to me that only having a gun either my vehicle or on me wouldn't cause any stress.

Am I missing something?

Wing master

There is no "variable stress level" when it comes to notifying or not notifying. Not for me, anyway. I treated all traffic stops as if the driver or passenger were potentially armed and may have bad intentions whether they looked "nice" and told me they had a permit or not. A driver having a gun on a stop was never a conversation starter with me about guns or the weather or whatever, and CPL holders did not get any breaks from me that anyone else wouldn't have received.

As I've said before, "shall inform" rules are not for officer safety, they're for the safety of the "stopee".

I've sat outside 1%er motorcycle club clubhouses of the Outlaws and Highwaymen both, and run plates on their bikes. More than you might think came back to guys who had CPL permits. Am I going to "give him the benefit of the doubt" on a traffic stop with his colors and lightening bolts because he was "vetted" as a good guy through the CPL process??? Hell and no. So why should I feel any differently when he's wearing a suit instead of his colors and driving a minivan? That's just officer safety 101.

You stop someone and talk to them. If you're going to order them out of the car, you order them out. If you're going to write a ticket, you write a ticket. If you develop reasonable suspicion for a search, you search, probable cause for arrest, you either arrest or don't. The fact that they have a CPL or a legal gun on them means next to nothing. The fact that they TELL you they have a legal gun on them means ONLY that they complied with the law (in a shall issue state). It means nothing else as far as whether my "stress" level goes up or down.

The Kent County Sheriff's deputy didn't know the law. It happens.

ANY kind of assumption will get you Detroit dead on a traffic stop. Assuming a CPL holder is a "good guy" and won't shoot you in the face is one of the bigger mistakes you can make. They may not be LIKELY to shoot you in the face, but I'm not going to assume that because I've never been killed by a 1%er biker that it can't happen.

The fact that someone has a CPL permit means ONLY that they MAY not have been convicted of any of the offenses that would preclude them from getting one. MAY NOT HAVE BEEN. Not "haven't". That's ALL. It doesn't mean that they're not a wife beater, it doesn't mean that they're not emotionally unstable, it doesn't mean jack. It only means that they can legally carry a gun concealed because some clerk says they can. It sure as hell doesn't mean that they didn't just kill their wife and kids or aren't driving home from robbing a liquor store.

Any officer on a traffic stop will plan for what COULD happen. Not just what is LIKELY to happen based on the last 100 traffic stops.

Assuming a CPL holder is any more of a "good guy" than anyone else is one of the rookiest mistakes a cop can make on a traffic stop or any other encounter. Permits around here are good for 4 years. A lot can happen in four years to send an erstwhile "good guy" over the edge.

As it turns out, you are correct, and I apologize for being mis-informed. But at least around here in my neck of the woods, it is recommended to identify that you have a CPL whether armed or not. I asked two different trainers and "MY" County Sheriff, and they all agree that up front disclosure in either case is highly recommended. For me, as a guy who rarely ever gets pulled over, but has frequent encounters with our local LEO in social situations, it sure seems that around here they have a fairly high regard for those of us who have a CPL. I am absolutely convinced that their first hand knowledge of the trainers has a lot to do with this, and the fact that many of the LEO departments train at the same establishment that many of us civilians do. I have no doubt that attitudes change by location and the types of individuals that LEO encounter on a daily basis.