How to Index your trigger finger

[Protected One]

I came across an interesting topic for discussion while browsing the latest American Handgunner Magazine. The topic was where to index your trigger finger on a drawn semi-auto handgun.

The commonly accepted position is "high along the slide" of the gun, but Mas Ayoob has a different take. (see photo attached)

Being that it seems we've been light on good subjects to discuss, I though I'd throw this one out there.

What are your thoughts on Mas's position and what do you see as pros and cons of each?

[charles_the_hammer]

Looks like it might take less movement to get it in position to fire, but I am still working on marksmanship fundamentals so my opinion on the subject probably isn't worth a whole lot.

[bigwheelzip]

For a right handed shooter, my EDC is smooth sided on the frame above the trigger, lacking any place to index to.

[Ziggy2525]

I read the article. Mas seemed to be making two points about trigger finger position.

1) Always have a reference point on the frame, off the trigger, for your trigger finger to rest on.

2) If you bend you trigger finger, as opposed to laying it along the slide, you're less likely to have a ND if you are startled or fall.

#1 makes sense. Same as with your thumb on the support hand.

I not sure how the bent finger (#2) makes you less likely to accidentally pull the trigger if you're startled. I might have missed it, but I didn't see any reference in the article to any stats about that. It would be interesting if there were some to back it up.

[Rpg]

I shoot Colt 1911's.

They have a natural index point for right handed shooters: the slide release stud on the right side of the pistol.

John Browning thought of everything in his marvelous design!

[bigggbbruce]

My trigger finger goes right to the trigger in the ready to fire position. I carry DA/SA so it pulls up against the hammer spring.

All it takes is a yank and Bang!!

[Protected One]

Originally Posted by Rpg

I shoot Colt 1911's.

They have a natural index point for right handed shooters: the slide release stud on the right side of the pistol.

John Browning thought of everything in his marvelous design!

Yes, it seems he did.
So do you curl your trigger finger and index it against the stud?

[k22fan]

What are you trying to accomplish by indexing your trigger finger? Is this a way to discourage accidental shootings by LEOs holding suspects at gun point?

One of our long time competitors and match organizers suggests we point our trigger finger at the target. The goal partly is to help get the handgun pointed at the target but primarily it is to avoid firing a bullet down through your leg. I have won matches using his method. I do not understand how there would be an advantage to feeling for an index point between drawing and firing. Perhaps it would help keep you from sticking your finger through the trigger guard if you fell while running between firing positions. Ayoob's method appears to position your finger so that if it is jolted off the frame during a fall it would be more likely to enter the trigger guard.

Admittedly, since I do not work in either trade, me telling a LEO how to hold his tool would be as nonsensical as me telling a carpenter how to hold his nail gun.

[Rpg]

Originally Posted by Protected One

Yes, it seems he did.
So do you curl your trigger finger and index it against the stud?

Not really.

Finger just naturally falls on the slide stop stud, probably from 45+ years of repetitions: bluing gone there on all my 1911's from thousands of repetitions.

[Protected One]

Originally Posted by Rpg

Not really.

Finger just naturally falls on the slide stop stud, probably from 45+ years of repetitions: bluing gone there on all my 1911's from thousands of repetitions.

Do you mean the "take down pin stud"?

[ContinentalOp]

I'm in the "use-whatever-works-for-you" camp. Personally, if I'm not going to shoot my trigger finger is indexed straight along the frame, whether it's semi-auto or revolver.

To me, it seems that curling one's trigger finger, as Ayoob recommends, would actually increase the likelihood of unintentionally landing one's finger on the trigger in the event of a fall or jolt.

Also, laying one's finger straight along the frame is consistent, regardless of what gun you carry. I suppose I do index, sort of, in that I can feel either the bottom of the slide or the cylinder along the top of my trigger finger.

I've tried both methods before. While I didn't use a stopwatch or shot timer, I didn't notice a significant difference in speed between the two. What I did notice, for me, anyways, was that using the curled finger method resulted in more initial sight disturbance than the straight finger method when moving my finger to the trigger.

Experiment. See what works for you.

[bigggbbruce]

Originally Posted by Protected One

Do you mean the "take down pin stud"?

No, he means slide stop stud. It is removed to take the gun down. But it's primary function is to hold barrel link and is the slide stop.

[OKFC05]

As an RO/SO I brief new competitors to find a place to put their trigger finger on the side of the gun where it will automatically go and stay there when reloading or showing clear. If they can't manage it and the trigger finger finds its way into the trigger guard at the wrong time, it is a DQ for unsafe gun handling.
Personally, I consider the curled finger an extra complication that serves no purpose and would never teach it. Mas is welcome to use it at my matches, as long as it keeps the trigger finger out of the trigger guard until engaging targets.


KISS

[Rpg]

Originally Posted by Protected One

Do you mean the "take down pin stud"?

Yes I do.

Slide stop, slide release, take down pin stud. That's it.

[ISCS Yoda]

My big issue with Mas Ayoob's bent trigger finger is that it is unnatural. It is far easier to place your trigger finger flat along the slide than remembering to curl it.

Second point - the bent finger takes training and practice. I believe one could train a new shooter to do it and, with a lot of patience and practice, teach an old dog that new trick. Left handed or right handed, I see no difference. My issue here is that when I am working with new shooters and I insist "do not touch the trigger"/"finger outside the trigger guard" I have to add "bend your finger" - one more complication that I don't see as hugely beneficial.

[MichiganScott]

I've placed my finger along side of the frame for 50 years. This dog is too old and ingrained to learn a new trick.

[dubshooter]

Our range master mentioned this since most of us carry Glicks. It was so you could “feel” the position where your finger is supposed to go. That way you know you’re in the right place by feeling. Some of our guys put a small piece of grip tape where their finger rests when it’s straight for a reference.

I understand it. But I do a lot of dry fire practice, and a lot of drawing to on target because I enjoy shooting. I know how it’s supposed to feel, and I like pointing at the target. But it might be a good thing for new shooters or people who don’t handle their guns often.

If it’s safe, and it works, why not?

And as far as less likely to shoot if you fall: maybe he’s saying if you have the reflex to clench your hands when your falling, if your finger is above the trigger, then when you tighten your finger in, it will move behind the trigger as opposed to moving closer to it when it’s flat along the frame? I don’t know. Just trying to read into the theory.

[garddogg56]

I like the finger pad that is forward of the take down pin on a SD9VE which is similar to the g19..here is a good pic of the pad ahead of the take down pin.

[BigDog48]

No offense intended, but it seems more likely your finger would wind up on the trigger unintentionally to me. As an RSO i like to see fingers clearing straight and away from the trigger. Maybe it is just so more people mention his name a lot discussing it.

[Protected One]

Like most here, I index my trigger finger along the slide. Still, I would like to hear Mas elaborate on his reasoning behind the curled finger indexing. Considering his experience and knowledge I'm sure there's a good rationale.

[CQB27]

My opinion (so since you asked) is Old Mas must be running out of things to talk about.

[richardw]

I totally concur with Ayoob. I do not see any correlation between finger position off the trigger and dangerous handling. All I know is that I adopted the Ayoob recommendation some time ago, and I place my finger tip on the slide just above the place in the trigger housing I want the finger to slide into. Slide the finger down and it is on the trigger. The extended finger position requires that I retract the finger and then drop it into the trigger housing and onto the trigger. Two movements is less efficient that one. Also, try both. You will find that with an extended finger you will find it more difficult to establish immediate good contact with the trigger than with the Ayoob method.

[oysterer]

This makes no sense to me whatsoever, looks like plenty of accidents waiting to happen. Plus if I index like that then there will be pressure on the frame and the gun will be tilted and not in the optimal shooting position meaning aligned with the arm.

[richardw]

Originally Posted by oysterer

This makes no sense to me whatsoever, looks like plenty of accidents waiting to happen. Plus if I index like that then there will be pressure on the frame and the gun will be tilted and not in the optimal shooting position meaning aligned with the arm.

Oddly, it makes perfect sense to me and I have been doing it for years. If you cannot place your finger on the side of the gun without moving it, you probably should not be using a gun. The finger position makes sense when you consider the dynamics of finger place met under stress. Let add to that this little tidbit. If you ever have the misfortune of being in a gunfight with a hand gun, and I did it too many times in Nam, you will quickly find out that all that theory is meaningless, and the most logical technique is best.

[2Paps]

Originally Posted by Ziggy2525

I read the article. Mas seemed to be making two points about trigger finger position.

1) Always have a reference point on the frame, off the trigger, for your trigger finger to rest on.

2) If you bend you trigger finger, as opposed to laying it along the slide, you're less likely to have a ND if you are startled or fall.

#1 makes sense. Same as with your thumb on the support hand.

I not sure how the bent finger (#2) makes you less likely to accidentally pull the trigger if you're startled. I might have missed it, but I didn't see any reference in the article to any stats about that. It would be interesting if there were some to back it up.

I was in a class that was teaching the use of cover and concealment. It required movement on the part of the shooters. The course required the use of the straight finger method. While moving from one cover to another I did trip, ended up on my butt. As I went down my finger came off the trigger and hugged the slide. If my finger had not done the slide hug I would have had to take a seat and observe rather than participate in the rest of the course. My action made it easy for the instructor to see an ND was not about to happen.

I admire and appreciate Mr. Ayoob and started reading his books and articles >25 years ago. I have not read this particular article and don't know how Mr. Ayoob justified his new suggestion. Once I read the article, I may agree with him.

If curled, indexed finger gets wide acceptance it needs to be included in training courses so we can fight the way we trained.

[SMSgt]

Wonderful . . . Now I have to start all over.

[URIT]

The situation usually dictates where my index finger is positioned. It moves to the trigger in plenty of time from the low ready. I've mostly had revolvers and S&W TDAs or DAOs so it really isn't an issue for me. I never had to quick draw and fire my duty pistol.

[Yiogo]

My index finger is already extended straight as I draw from my holster and ends up along the slide or cylinder. I'd be afraid with a curled finger that it would end up inside the trigger guard increasing the likelihood of a negligent discharge.

[Whitwabit]

He is just using the take down notch as a memory point its not so much the bent finger .. the notch is a feel point for him .. Berretta PX4's have a finger indentation on the frame just in front of the take down lever that does the same thing !!

You can use any point along the frame and do the same thing !!