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10-12-2017, 07:54 AM
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Senseless
While waiting at doc office I see a live facebook feed from a town where we lived very close to ( westmelbourne ) 50 years. Seemes a 15 year old male shot at West melbourne Pd a number of times very early this morning. And the took his own life. My big issuse is Florida has for many years had a law on the books makeing it a felony for adults to allow kids to have gun. Ugg. Now he's dead a could have killed some cops. Rant over sad.Btw an adult knew the kid had gun the same day there was an earlier issuse.
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10-12-2017, 08:27 AM
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I think any gun owner who allows a gun to be in the hands of an unaccompanied minor ought to have to do some jail time regardless of whether the minor does any harm. Ten days would wake them up.
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10-12-2017, 08:43 AM
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When we were kids..... I roamed the Laurel Highlands at the cabin with my trusty Stevens Favorite single shot .22 and later a Remington 511-X...... road in the back of pickup trucks....... and had never even heard of a seat belt.
At the time; 1960s, my Dad was a Police Lt. and had gifted me both rifles...........
Some folks here will tell stories of taking .22s to school and hunting on the way home........ me I just spent 4 years on a High School Rifle Team.
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10-12-2017, 08:45 AM
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Kids are born knowing nothing but how to eat and mess up diapers. It is the parents responsibility to take care of them and teach right from wrong. I found out quickly that their way was the easy way to get by smoothly. Looking back now, I'm very glad I listened to them.
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10-12-2017, 08:49 AM
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When I was a kid and we wanted to shoot at each other we used our Daisy's. Anyone should know that.
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10-12-2017, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardw
I think any gun owner who allows a gun to be in the hands of an unaccompanied minor ought to have to do some jail time regardless of whether the minor does any harm. Ten days would wake them up.
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That's what we need! Another gun law!
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10-12-2017, 09:44 AM
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1919-1932 should have taught everyone that prohibiting something does not make it go away. Western civilization put some rules down in stone, oh lets see, must have been more than 2200 years ago and people continue to break them to this day.
Legislators, Judges and Police are poor substitutes for good parenting. Children need to be taught, guided, coached. They need to be supervised until they have internalized good behaviors. I have four children, all grown up now. I would have trusted any of them with a firearm at 14. There are lots of their friends I would have trusted with firearms, and some other local kids I wouldn't trust with a steak knife at 44.
My wife and brother in law, who grew up not terribly far from here' took Civilian Marksmanship Classes (sponsored by the NRA) IN THEIR HIGH SCHOOL DURING SCHOOL HOURS (and got physical education credit for doing so). Today their old school would go on lockdown if someone THOUGHT they saw a gun.
I bet we have 3 or 4 times as many laws on the books as we did when I was growing up. Probably have 300% 400% more of the population incarcerated as well. Are we safer.
Mental health is in decline as well. While there are certainly parents who are actually too sick or disabled or overworked to take care of and teach their kids. There are exponentially more who don't have a clue*, don't care, are too lazy, want someone else to do the 'dirty' work, are too selfish, are too busy extending THEIR childhood at the expense of their children.
These kids grow up and are a menace to society BECAUSE they feel unwanted. They feel unwanted, because, well, they are, at least by those who are responsible for their existence. That is a pretty heavy burden to put on a developing brain. So they act out, but not in safe ways that they may learn from. In ways that make CNN's rolling news leader.
*On a brighter note, if the kids parent(s) are clueless, friends and neighbors can help by modeling behaviors and including them. Our family sorta semi-adopted several kids over the years. Given time these kids saw there was something better out there.
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Last edited by TomkinsSP; 10-12-2017 at 09:46 AM.
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10-12-2017, 10:03 AM
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I hate to sound like a crotchety old man (probably time to face the fact that I'm slowly turning into one), but many kids these days are essentially infants inhabiting near-adult bodies. They have zero impulse control and have absolutely no inkling of the concept of delayed gratification. It doesn't matter who is to blame: dual-income families, helicopter parents, mollycoddling school systems, video games, Dr. Spock, the internet, take your pick. Just realize that most kids these days can't be trusted with a pointy stick, much less a firearm. They're idiots, and all of these precious, little snowflakes should be treated as such.
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10-12-2017, 10:06 AM
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Kids today spend their time playing violent video games where death becomes fun and there are no consequences. They also have no respect for anything but themselves.
I also had my first gun at 11, a Remington .22 single shot. Used to buy ammo at Western Auto on the way home from school.
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10-12-2017, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kifaru
I hate to sound like a crotchety old man (probably time to face the fact that I'm slowly turning into one), but many kids these days are essentially infants inhabiting near-adult bodies. They have zero impulse control and have absolutely no inkling of the concept of delayed gratification. It doesn't matter who is to blame: dual-income families, helicopter parents, mollycoddling school systems, video games, Dr. Spock, the internet, take your pick. Just realize that most kids these days can't be trusted with a pointy stick, much less a firearm. They're idiots, and all of these precious, little snowflakes should be treated as such.
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Not just today. One that comes to mind was a 15 year old girl in the 70s who shot a bunch of people because she didn't like Mondays
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10-12-2017, 10:53 AM
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A bigger problem
Yes, it appears that American society is slowly unraveling but when you talk about social ills, we skate perilously close to forbidden topics and thread closure. In the interim, gun owners make a convenient whipping post for some forces in society.
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10-12-2017, 11:37 AM
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It seems like we are falling apart as a society. I agree with most of the respondents, poor parenting and a decline of family interaction is to blame for most of our social problems. Kids and adults are lost in social media allowing for the lack of a positive influence. Were are we going?
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10-12-2017, 11:38 AM
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Sadley this feed this morning reminds of this kid in our neighborhood now. He is always into something. Its a matter of time. He pointed a b b pistol my direction one day. Thank God I saw him shooting it a few minutes earlier. I did tell him to knock it off. With authority.
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Last edited by wingriderz; 10-12-2017 at 02:55 PM.
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10-12-2017, 11:39 AM
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Some, many, (hopefully not most, certainly not all.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee in Quartzsite
Kids today spend their time playing violent video games where death becomes fun and there are no consequences. They also have no respect for anything but themselves.
I also had my first gun at 11, a Remington .22 single shot. Used to buy ammo at Western Auto on the way home from school.
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Having run 3 buisnesses after retiring from the PD. I have met and employed many young people who are nothing like the above description. I have met many whom fit the description. I imagine percentages vary with locality.
Its kind of like 2dA rights with me, I can't just ignore the challenge because it is over across that state, county or property line. If enough water comes into the boat it sinks us all. English science fiction writer Douglas Adams wrote a book about a society that was so 'polite' (PC) that it collapsed.
Its easy for busy or lazy parents to use electronic baby sitters instead of engaging with children. But as someone on another thread observed that buying a dog and chaining it in the yard and ignoring it leads to unsocialized frightened, agressive, territorial dogs, it appears that some parents violate informed consent guidelines and are carrying out similar unethical expiraments with human children.
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Last edited by TomkinsSP; 10-12-2017 at 11:41 AM.
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10-12-2017, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren Sear
That's what we need! Another gun law!
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Upmost Respect Warren Sear,Florida has had a felony law on the books for many years regarding adults not keep firearms secure from minors. The State Attorney fails to file charges against the adults over 95% of the time.
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10-12-2017, 02:54 PM
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Possible that the young man had possession of the firearm illegally ?
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10-12-2017, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardw
I think any gun owner who allows a gun to be in the hands of an unaccompanied minor ought to have to do some jail time regardless of whether the minor does any harm. Ten days would wake them up.
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Well thank god that law wasn't on the books when I was out in the woods hunting by myself when I was 12-13 years old. Far as that's concerned my 14 year old grandson is more responsible with a firearm than some adults I have known.
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10-12-2017, 10:57 PM
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A doctoral thesis comes to mind: "Self-Induced Mass Insanity, Overpopulation and the Laws of Nature; How the Herd Is Organically Thinned".
Unfortunately, this is not sarcasm.
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10-12-2017, 11:33 PM
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If giving your kid a gun or even letting your kid walk around with a gun doesn't get a parent to wake up then no gun law will wake them up. When their kid is dead or killed someone then it is to late to wake up. Even then the stupid parents want to sue someone for their kid getting killed because he was a good kid and didn't deserve getting shot and killed. Come on people take some responsibility for your poor parenting.
Any adult that points a gun, real or fake, at a cop will more than likely get shot so why expect anything different for your kid pointing a gun?
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10-13-2017, 12:08 AM
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I was a teen in the 1990's and served as our family armorer. I kept the gun safe key next to my school band locker key on my pocket knife key chain. We loaded sidearms (.22 & .38 revolvers) daily after school for being out and about on the family property. My 20 ga often spent the night on the rack next to my bed, buckshot and slug shells in the dresser drawer.
To add to the horror, my friends and I would check out the family firearms when we were at each other's houses.
What happens when your 15 year old needs access to a firearm to save their (or their siblings') life? Oh yeah, that's right- you follow the "kids are idiots" mantra, and now your kids paid the price for your lack of parenting.
Laws prohibiting minor possession or access to firearms are just as idiotic and misguided as any other forms of blanket gun control restrictions. If the only thing keeping your kid from being a criminal with a gun is the fact the weapons are locked-up in a safe, you have got FAR BIGGER problems.
Last edited by .455_Hunter; 10-13-2017 at 12:10 PM.
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10-13-2017, 12:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardw
I think any gun owner who allows a gun to be in the hands of an unaccompanied minor ought to have to do some jail time regardless of whether the minor does any harm. Ten days would wake them up.
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So how is your buddy Mr. Bloomberg doing these days?
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10-13-2017, 08:54 AM
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US Veteran Absent Comrade
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In 1959 I was 10 years old and lived on a farm in west Texas. My dad and granddad taught me to shoot jack rabbits with a single shot Remington .22, pheasants and quail with a 20 gauge Stevens shotgun. Many, many days I went hunting alone, never had any inclination to aim at anything I didn't plan on cleaning and eating, that's how I was taught and it was made very clear. If I had even thought about point a rifle or pistol at anyone I couldn't have set down for a week. It seems to me those lessons aren't being taught as often today. Sadly.
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10-13-2017, 09:24 AM
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Funny how the right to bear arms can start at 18, free speech, religious freedom, freedom from search and seizure, cruel and unusual punishment, due process, life and liberty, equal protection, no court says THOSE start at 18.
(PS, I TOTALLY support laws that say a parent has strict liability for the actions of their minor children. Rights beget responsibilities.)
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Last edited by TomkinsSP; 10-13-2017 at 09:27 AM.
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10-13-2017, 09:37 AM
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Growing up in the 50's, my Daddy always told me the real law enforcement agency was the home. All the others were back-up. Took me awhile to understand, but now know Daddy was pretty smart after-all. Never so much a traffic ticket my entire life. Daddy taught me and my brothers and sisters right.
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10-13-2017, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardw
I think any gun owner who allows a gun to be in the hands of an unaccompanied minor ought to have to do some jail time regardless of whether the minor does any harm. Ten days would wake them up.
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REALLY?????????????????????????????????????????????
When I was 9 yrs old I was off hunting by myself with a 20 ga. SS.....Brought home lots of game for the table. Always prefered the outdoors....Hated ball sports......Still do. Never hurt or harmed anybody. My parents instilled right from wrong and RESPONSIBILITY in me at early age
So what planet are you from?
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10-13-2017, 03:31 PM
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In re post 25. It occurs to me that it just doesn't matter. Doesn't matter at all.
One the one hand we have a responsible child raised by conciencious parents who is perfectly capable of handling his or her self without a parent at hand.
On the other hand we have an irresponsible child raised by unconcious parents. Having his or her parent(s) there would just mean having a bigger set of idiots. One idiot, two, three, does it matter. They would not have the brains to stop him if he did it front of them.
Either way, it just doesn't matter.
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10-14-2017, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingriderz
While waiting at doc office I see a live facebook feed from a town where we lived very close to ( westmelbourne ) 50 years. Seemes a 15 year old male shot at West melbourne Pd a number of times very early this morning. And the took his own life. My big issuse is Florida has for many years had a law on the books makeing it a felony for adults to allow kids to have gun.
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Since when has a law that supposedly "prevents" so-and-so with a gun actually stopped so-and-so with a gun?
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10-14-2017, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchdog
Since when has a law that supposedly "prevents" so-and-so with a gun actually stopped so-and-so with a gun?
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This should be carved in stone for ALL TO SEE.
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10-14-2017, 10:06 AM
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Awww guys, don't you remember how it used to be before they passed laws against murder and robbery and burglary and mayhem. When fraud and terrorism existed. When you had to worry about the safety of your Mom or wife or children.
Back before this country became a utopian paradise after we passed all those laws to abolish everything we didn't want....
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10-14-2017, 11:29 AM
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I was given a .22/410 rifle when I was 13, and remember my Dad telling me "If I see you EVER point this at a person, you will never touch this gun again." I knew I'd get as *** whipping if I did it, plus I actually possessed enough brain matter to know not to point it at people.
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10-14-2017, 11:40 AM
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My two kids (M and F) are now in their late 30s. My son has a Glock 19 and a few other handguns.
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10-14-2017, 02:52 PM
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Spend some time working in the criminal justice system, child protective, etc. You'll quickly learn the difference between "parents" and "gene donors".
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10-14-2017, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug M.
Spend some time working in the criminal justice system, child protective, etc. You'll quickly learn the difference between "parents" and "gene donors".
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Police Officer?
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10-14-2017, 11:25 PM
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I'm a lawyer - full time prosecutor now in the civil division, but most of my background was in the criminal division, prosecuting juveniles for every form of crime from piddly to the most serious while also doing our contract child protective cases for part of that time, followed by prosecuting felonies in a crummy county. I was also a part time cop in both Illinois and here, and of course pretty much always refused to work days.
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10-15-2017, 12:40 AM
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22 years NYPD. Then one with feds, hip waders wern't tall enough, took retirement before I drowned.
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