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View Poll Results: Do you chamber a round in your CCW?
Semi - Yes and on safety 221 38.24%
Semi - Yes - no safety 279 48.27%
Semi - Never! 30 5.19%
Revolver - Hammer on empty chamber 9 1.56%
Revolver - Fully loaded - safety on 8 1.38%
Revolver - Fully loaded - no safety 293 50.69%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 578. You may not vote on this poll

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  #101  
Old 04-06-2016, 12:25 PM
Buford57 Buford57 is offline
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Depending on the day:

DAO semi with no safety - chamber loaded.
DA/SA semi with safety - chamber loaded, safety off
DAO, internal hammer revolver, no safety - chamber loaded

Do you see the pattern? Each of these was designed to be carried safely with the chamber loaded. Each uses the same procedure for a first shot: a long, relatively heavy but smooth trigger pull. Each has one or more properly fitting holsters.

With SA autos and older pattern SA revolvers this is a very relevant question. I could play devil's advocate, stir the pot and suggest it may be a relevant question for those who carry striker-fired autos also (but I won't). With modern DA/SA and DAO autos and DA or DAO revolvers I can't think of a good reason for an empty chamber under normal circumstances.
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  #102  
Old 04-06-2016, 06:34 PM
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There is/was a european made revolver that had a safety on it. It was very expensive and was sort of a copy of a python as I recall. That is the only revolver I've ever heard of with a safety. PCgunner is obviously not knowledgable on that subject and needs some education before he is licensed to carry. The thought that a revolver should be carried without a round under the hammer is a hold over from Colt SAA days and possibly SASS. I would hope that where ever PCgunner is going to go for his pre licensing training, he would ask enough questions in class that he obtains these answers.
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  #103  
Old 04-06-2016, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flintsghost View Post
There is/was a european made revolver that had a safety on it. It was very expensive and was sort of a copy of a python as I recall.
Didn't Korth made them?



Korth arms Models

https://youtu.be/iJZwhrxokGA
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  #104  
Old 04-09-2016, 12:47 AM
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Every individual is free to choose how they carry, but consider this - there are NO reputable firearms instructors who "teach OR practice" carrying with an empty chamber.

There's a message in there someplace.
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  #105  
Old 04-09-2016, 07:38 AM
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If you carry a semi auto with no round in the chamber and think you will always have time to rack the slide, it may be your last mistake.
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  #106  
Old 04-13-2016, 08:25 PM
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Condition 1 all the way. I carry a 1911 sometimes, other times a .40 compact. The 1911 is cocked and locked; the .40 is chambered with safety on. Either way I carry, the motion is the same. As I draw, the thumb goes to the safety, muzzle to the target, finger ready for the trigger.
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  #107  
Old 04-13-2016, 09:01 PM
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I want to draw safely and fast from fully concealed carry and for the gun to go bang if I have made the decision to shoot... full cylinders (I am not including old single actions revolvers) and chambered cartridges but one round less in a magazine (a personal preference)... the mind makes the decision and everything else is reflex action... that is why some cops carry Glocks with a round in the chamber and a full magazine....
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  #108  
Old 04-25-2016, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcgunner View Post
Thanks for the positive responses - those that offered them...



Yes I do have a lack of knowledge which is why I came here and why I am asking questions!

If you prefer I not that's fine, I can go elsewhere - thought this was a friendly place to learn and offer help when I can.

Guess I was wrong
There is always a few .. this forum is usually pretty informative .. and there is a lot of very good info to be found here !!

Most of us carry with one in the chamber for to have to rack your pistol before you are able to shoot while in that same amount of time the BG has shot 2-3 times or advanced and has stabbed you multiple times or struck you with a piece of metal pipe .. what do you think your survivability is ??

I carry a S&W 40 compact no safety and the DA trigger is the safety .. its 6 1/2 pound pull has to be deliberate for the pistol to fire .. it will not fire by its self .. someone or something has to interact with the trigger for the pistol to fire ..

So carrying one in the chamber is very safe in the many different methods of carrying .. as long as your finger doesn't interact with the trigger until the pistol is aimed at the object you intend to shoot .. and you have decided to shoot that object whether it is a target or in a self defense situation ..
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  #109  
Old 04-26-2016, 08:30 AM
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Always one in the chamber, an empty gun is useless if time is critical (Israelis train to chamber on draw but it takes a lot of training to be time-effective).

Current CCW has no safety. When I CCW'd a 1911, cocked and locked.
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  #110  
Old 04-26-2016, 09:27 AM
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. . . (Israelis train to chamber on draw but it takes a lot of training to be time-effective). . . .
And, AFAIK, it still takes two hands.
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  #111  
Old 04-26-2016, 05:34 PM
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Just to clarify my vote: "Semi - Yes - no safety"...

I carry various Glock pistols.
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  #112  
Old 04-26-2016, 07:34 PM
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House guns - two 1911 45 acp with full clips but empty chambers.
Impossible to get carry permit in Maryland but I would keep one in the chamber in carry gun.
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  #113  
Old 04-26-2016, 09:17 PM
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SA/DA revolver. Full rack.
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  #114  
Old 04-28-2016, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Model520Fan View Post
And, AFAIK, it still takes two hands.
No, the Israeli system is to chamber using only one hand, by raking the sight across clothing or holster to rack the slide. I had a recent student in my NRA PPOH class who trained with the Israelis and demonstrated it for me with my 1911. It works, but takes a lot of training to get it right instinctively.

LEOs in the US don't spend a lot of range time training as it is, and most civilian CCW folks don't shoot at ranges that would allow you to do such things, so I would consider it as an impractical way to carry in the US!
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  #115  
Old 04-28-2016, 08:11 PM
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Just read on another gun forum where someone said that people who are afraid to carry one in the chamber are not really ready to carry a gun. I think I agree.
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  #116  
Old 04-28-2016, 08:50 PM
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You'll need a better class of friends. Unless you are a cop doing a traffic stop, empty chamber should be fine. Be alert, don't be stupid, watch your environment and you should have plenty of time to avoid using the safety blanket.
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  #117  
Old 04-29-2016, 08:26 AM
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An old thread on arfcom came back around (the search function over there is terrible or I'd include a link) and I though of this thread. The member was a robbery victim where there was no chance to chamber a round, as it was both the victim and the perp took hits. The member left his gun at the office and he almost didn't bother going back to get it; fortunately he did - if not he may not be alive today. The member was carrying a 1911 and as has happened before, the other shooter - the perp - focused on his gun (and just like an instinctive archery shooter where the arrow goes where you are looking) he took a glancing hit to his gun hand. He got off 2 shots and then it wouldn't fire, he thought he had a jam; as it turns out the hand hit - while not enough to totally disable it caused enough of a problem the grip safety was now engaged. Anyways the perp had a 6 shot revolver and when he realized he ran it dry he fled. The member was treated for multiple gunshot wounds and the perp was picked up later. None of the the hits were lethal to either person and the perp got 75 years. Several lesson here to consider I think:
1) Not carrying a gun ready go could be a mistake you will not get to correct it for the next time. I agree with the post that if you aren't comfortable carrying one chambered then you either need a different gun or you should not be carrying until you can get your head on straight.
2) Maybe grip safeties aren't such a good idea.
3) Always carry.
4) Just because you and/or the bad guy are hit doesn't mean things are now over.
5) Just because you have a big handgun that doesn't mean you have a death ray
6) Keep fighting
7) If the perp hadn't run dry would the arfcom member still be alive? More rounds sometimes make a difference.

It is a good read but describing the whole incident would be far too long in an already long post and not sure I would get all the details right.
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  #118  
Old 04-29-2016, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DD357 View Post
An old thread on arfcom came back around (the search function over there is terrible or I'd include a link) and I though of this thread. The member was a robbery victim where there was no chance to chamber a round, as it was both the victim and the perp took hits. The member left his gun at the office and he almost didn't bother going back to get it; fortunately he did - if not he may not be alive today. The member was carrying a 1911 and as has happened before, the other shooter - the perp - focused on his gun (and just like an instinctive archery shooter where the arrow goes where you are looking) he took a glancing hit to his gun hand. He got off 2 shots and then it wouldn't fire, he thought he had a jam; as it turns out the hand hit - while not enough to totally disable it caused enough of a problem the grip safety was now engaged. Anyways the perp had a 6 shot revolver and when he realized he ran it dry he fled. The member was treated for multiple gunshot wounds and the perp was picked up later. None of the the hits were lethal to either person and the perp got 75 years. Several lesson here to consider I think:
1) Not carrying a gun ready go could be a mistake you will not get to correct it for the next time. I agree with the post that if you aren't comfortable carrying one chambered then you either need a different gun or you should not be carrying until you can get your head on straight.
2) Maybe grip safeties aren't such a good idea.
3) Always carry.
4) Just because you and/or the bad guy are hit doesn't mean things are now over.
5) Just because you have a big handgun that doesn't mean you have a death ray
6) Keep fighting
7) If the perp hadn't run dry would the arfcom member still be alive? More rounds sometimes make a difference.

It is a good read but describing the whole incident would be far too long in an already long post and not sure I would get all the details right.
Grip safeties AREN'T a good idea. That's one of the things JMB improved when he made the High Power.
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  #119  
Old 05-13-2016, 09:08 AM
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Surprised by the number of people who said they carry w/ an empty chamber.
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  #120  
Old 05-31-2016, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Crigger540 View Post
When I first got my Shield I carried it in my bag unchambered and with the safety on. After a trip to the range I started carrying it on me, same condition. As time went on I started carrying it chambered with safety on and eventually the safety came off. The more confident owners start out that way, but we all eventually get there. Set your own pace and you will get comfortable enough.
Exactly every one is at their own pace. Just like learning how to drive a car.

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  #121  
Old 05-31-2016, 02:46 PM
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Get a Makarov and use this holster..
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  #122  
Old 05-31-2016, 10:02 PM
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..............
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  #123  
Old 06-01-2016, 12:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LenS View Post
No, the Israeli system is to chamber using only one hand, by raking the sight across clothing or holster to rack the slide. I had a recent student in my NRA PPOH class who trained with the Israelis and demonstrated it for me with my 1911. It works, but takes a lot of training to get it right instinctively.

LEOs in the US don't spend a lot of range time training as it is, and most civilian CCW folks don't shoot at ranges that would allow you to do such things, so I would consider it as an impractical way to carry in the US!
I would object on the basis of simplicity. No matter how much you train to do a thing, under stress, you lose fine motor control.

Quote:
Originally Posted by apotter11
You'll need a better class of friends. Unless you are a cop doing a traffic stop, empty chamber should be fine. Be alert, don't be stupid, watch your environment and you should have plenty of time to avoid using the safety blanket.
It must be so boring to live in a world without surprises.
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  #124  
Old 06-01-2016, 10:18 AM
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If someone believes that carrying a loaded gun makes them a danger to themselves and others, I'm inclined to believe them.
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Old 06-01-2016, 11:15 AM
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Don't get the hammer on an empty chamber in anything SD. That is inviting a disaster in a bad situation.
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  #126  
Old 06-06-2016, 04:25 PM
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For those who don't carry a round in the chamber.

https://youtu.be/RmLLle42XtU
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  #127  
Old 06-06-2016, 05:14 PM
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His gun handling was not completely terrible otherwise, either. Coulda been faster clearing the stoppage, but most people wouldn't even do that well. Can't see where his offhand thumb is.

Positioning was so-so. He had waist-high cover and some concealment for the draw, but the attacker was only two steps away from flanking that cover. Unfortunately, all of the cover in that portion of the store is very short in terms of separating one's position from an attacker at the end of the registers.

Decision to shoot was, in my estimation, not very good. It was certainly justifiable, but there were other, better options. Since his primary ethical duty is to his wife and child, he could have simply retreated to the rear and drawn, ready to defend. The guy was already on his way out, so there's very little percentage to be gained in escalating the situation in a crowded store.

If the attacker had been better-prepared, or if he had an accomplice unknown to the defender, the outcome could have been very different.

Of course:

(1) I'm Monday morning quarterbacking a situation I wasn't in, and
(2) He managed to survive the encounter.
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  #128  
Old 06-06-2016, 05:16 PM
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If I am not carrying a J frame, it's a 1911, or a .40 cal H&K USPC……..always one in the chamber, cocked and locked.

Semper Fi!
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  #129  
Old 06-06-2016, 05:33 PM
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Those of you who marked that you carry a fully loaded Revolver, "With the Safety on", just what revolver do you carry?
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Old 06-06-2016, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apotter11 View Post
Unless you are a cop doing a traffic stop, empty chamber should be fine. Be alert, don't be stupid, watch your environment and you should have plenty of time ....
It's not just about time. Chambering a round requires two hands, fine motor skill, and time. How often do I have two hands available? Not often. My phone, shopping bag, car keys, etc. can easily occupy one of my hands. If you are with your wife and something happens you may be fighting to get her off your arm so you can use the hand down at the end of it.

A modern firearm in a proper holster cannot discharge, period. If a person is unfamiliar with what is happening inside the mechanism when a trigger is pulled, they will probably be uneasy with a loaded gun. Once you teach them how the gun is safe, and then make it even more safe by holstering it, they should be comfortable. If not, then they have other issues and probably should rethink their self-defense tool choice.

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Old 06-07-2016, 05:02 PM
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Once you teach them how the gun is safe, and then make it even more safe by holstering it, they should be comfortable.
Precisely my experience. I'd been comfortable with handguns for many years, but wasn't so comfortable with holstering when the opportunity finally arose. Then I got a little instruction in it, spent some time reading and educating myself, and no longer had a problem.
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Old 06-08-2016, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apotter11 View Post
You'll need a better class of friends. Unless you are a cop doing a traffic stop, empty chamber should be fine. Be alert, don't be stupid, watch your environment and you should have plenty of time to avoid using the safety blanket.
So only police on a traffic stop should have one chambered is what your implying ..

What world do you live in ??
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Old 06-09-2016, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buford57 View Post
Depending on the day:

DAO semi with no safety - chamber loaded.
DA/SA semi with safety - chamber loaded, safety off
DAO, internal hammer revolver, no safety - chamber loaded

Do you see the pattern? Each of these was designed to be carried safely with the chamber loaded. Each uses the same procedure for a first shot: a long, relatively heavy but smooth trigger pull. Each has one or more properly fitting holsters.

With SA autos and older pattern SA revolvers this is a very relevant question. I could play devil's advocate, stir the pot and suggest it may be a relevant question for those who carry striker-fired autos also (but I won't). With modern DA/SA and DAO autos and DA or DAO revolvers I can't think of a good reason for an empty chamber under normal circumstances.
this mirrors my thoughts - and the poll results will be misleading as I suspect for the semi auto pistols it will come down to type.

For example:

1. When I carry a 1911 or Hi Power (single action semi-auto pistols with a manual thumb safety) I carry them in Condition 1 (cocked and locked with a loaded chamber).

2. When I carry a CZ 75 (a DA/SA pistol with a manual safety), I carry it hammer down, in DA mode, with the safety off, with a loaded chamber - and I do that because the position of the safety makes it difficult to switch off as the gun comes into your line of sight.

3. When I carry a Walther PP or PPK/S (DA pistols with a safety/decocker) I carry it de-cocked, with a loaded chamber, and with the safety off.

4. When I carry a DA revolver, I carry it with the hammer down on a loaded cylinder - but all of them incorporate some form of hammer block to keep them "drop safe".

The common thread is that this is how all of them were designed to be carried safely yet brought into action quickly.

I also carry them all in holsters that fully protect the trigger.
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  #134  
Old 06-09-2016, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by apotter11 View Post
You'll need a better class of friends. Unless you are a cop doing a traffic stop, empty chamber should be fine. Be alert, don't be stupid, watch your environment and you should have plenty of time to avoid using the safety blanket.
Let me know when you can read minds and see around corners

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Old 06-10-2016, 02:59 PM
wingriderz wingriderz is offline
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I carry hot always in bolth
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Old 06-14-2016, 04:11 PM
cp2146 cp2146 is offline
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I have no problem whatsoever carrying with a round chambered and safety on, for all the reasons mentioned. My concern is purely mechanical in nature. I don't want to damage the firing pin spring by leaving it continuously cocked. I have a Shield that is striker fired so there is no hammer to de-cock while the round is chambered, meaning the spring is always compressed. I talked to S&W customer support about this and they said that over time, it would damage the spring. So, what to do? Jury is still out for me.
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Old 06-14-2016, 07:48 PM
fr3db3ar fr3db3ar is offline
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Springs are not typically weakened by ANY static position. They are weakened by work, which means compressing and expanding. Shooting your gun will weaken the springs, we'd better stop that.

Sent from somewhere in the time space continuum
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Old 06-15-2016, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by fr3db3ar View Post
Springs are not typically weakened by ANY static position. They are weakened by work, which means compressing and expanding. Shooting your gun will weaken the springs, we'd better stop that.

Sent from somewhere in the time space continuum
This is just a general response to the topic

If you go over to TFL or THR and search "Springs" you will literally get enough information on this topic to fill a book.

They have responses from metallurgists, engineers and manufacturing experts. They discuss design specs, load limits, static compression factors, how magazine capacity affects the springs, yada, yada, yada.

By the time you're finished reading you'll want to tear your eyes out of your head but you you will know all you need to know about springs
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Old 06-15-2016, 01:20 PM
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I don't want to damage the firing pin spring by leaving it continuously cocked.
Are you saying that you've noodled it over in your head and that $2 spring has more preservation value than your life or the lives of your loved ones?

C'mon, seriously now. No matter what you do, that spring will eventually need to be replaced. Does it really matter if that replacement comes in 10 years instead of 20? This sort of reminds me of Seinfeld episode where Elaine has to decide whether her lover is "sponge-worthy" or not. You've taken to trying to decide which self defense scenarios are "spring-worthy" or not.
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Old 06-17-2016, 09:34 AM
cp2146 cp2146 is offline
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Are you saying that you've noodled it over in your head and that $2 spring has more preservation value than your life or the lives of your loved ones?

C'mon, seriously now. No matter what you do, that spring will eventually need to be replaced. Does it really matter if that replacement comes in 10 years instead of 20? This sort of reminds me of Seinfeld episode where Elaine has to decide whether her lover is "sponge-worthy" or not. You've taken to trying to decide which self defense scenarios are "spring-worthy" or not.
S&W says to replace them in 5 years or 5000 rounds, but point taken. I guess in the back of my mind somewhere I'm thinking damaged spring equals light or no primer strike, which equals no fire, which equals injury (or worse) to me or my family. On the other hand, no round chambered and most likely not having time to chamber one could have the same end result.

Last edited by cp2146; 06-17-2016 at 09:37 AM.
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Old 06-17-2016, 02:09 PM
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I don't know of ANY double action revolvers with a safety
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Originally Posted by AZretired View Post
Those of you who marked that you carry a fully loaded Revolver, "With the Safety on", just what revolver do you carry?
Gotta remember that the term "safety" is ambiguous for firearms. What is the result they are preventing from happening? In essence most safeties (employing various means), are disabling the ability of the firing pin from unintentionally hitting the primer and discharging a round.

Often overlooked because they are not conspicuous features on revolvers, but there are built in safeties that are automatically "on" by default, to prevent the hammer from hitting a loaded chamber, without using the trigger.

These aren't my photos... credit goes to 500 Magnum Nut.

If you're using an S&W they are here:





And then there are the Ruger transfer bar safeties:

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  #142  
Old 06-19-2016, 06:03 PM
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Always have a round chambered and the safety on with my M&P9
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Old 02-22-2017, 12:21 PM
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A GREAT compilation video on why to keep a round chambered!

This is Why You Carry With A Round in the Chamber! - YouTube
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Old 02-22-2017, 03:22 PM
Whitwabit Whitwabit is offline
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Originally Posted by Protected One View Post
A GREAT compilation video on why to keep a round chambered!

This is Why You Carry With A Round in the Chamber! - YouTube
one of several good video's showing why time is against you if you carry condition 3 ..

I divide people who have Conceal Carry Permits into two groups .. gun people and non-gun people .. the gun people mainly military veterans and their family members and other hunting and shooting enthusiasts and their family members .. the non-gun people are those who have bought a pistol or other weapon for self defense but doesn't have the knowledge both in usage and safety as the gun people have ..

The non-gun people are the ones not comfortable initially when carrying and many carry Condition 3 when first starting to carry .. I judge that from the people I know who carry and others who I have taken classes with .. and what they have said .. think eventually most will carry Condition 1 but not
till they realize that their pistol is safe carried in a holster and become comfortable with that knowledge !!
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Old 02-22-2017, 03:34 PM
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Thanks for the positive responses - those that offered them...



Yes I do have a lack of knowledge which is why I came here and why I am asking questions!

If you prefer I not that's fine, I can go elsewhere - thought this was a friendly place to learn and offer help when I can.

Guess I was wrong
Don't worry theres a few in every crowd . Just ignore... This is the best forum to be on

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Old 02-22-2017, 04:41 PM
Umami13 Umami13 is offline
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If you carry you have to be ready. Rarely are you going to have time to rack a slide in a attack a) your attacker has there weapon out already b) you are in physical activity with them c) there are multiple attacker's. All these even if you practice highly unlikely your going to pull it off. And honestly that's why striker fired pistols are so popular and for me the only pistol I have with a safety is my 1911 and I train drawing and deactivate the safety all the time now I don't carry my 1911 it is a home gun and for the range I carry a glock 36 most of the time with a glock 23 and a m&p shield as others that I rotate for carry no safety on any of those and always ready...
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Old 02-22-2017, 04:44 PM
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depends on the gun. can't vote in this poll

SA auto (i.e. 1911)- chambered, safety on
DA or DA/SA auto- chambered, hammer down, safety off
DA revolver- hammer down over chambered round
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Old 02-22-2017, 06:48 PM
doug86 doug86 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hexnut View Post
Just read on another gun forum where someone said that people who are afraid to carry one in the chamber are not really ready to carry a gun. I think I agree.
I also agree. I was at that stage, and thought about either an empty chamber or at the very least, with a safety ON, using a striker fired S&W.

After a few weeks of training, and getting a good holster that guards the trigger, I carry with safety off and a round in the chamber, and I'm very comfortable that way. It takes some time, some training and getting to understand how the gun works.
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Old 02-22-2017, 07:25 PM
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1911 - Cocked and locked. I've been carrying this way since 1995 with no problems whatsoever.
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Old 02-22-2017, 07:49 PM
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i always carried autos israeli style, empty chamber. this is because i'd rather suffer harm to myself than accidentally hurt someone.

like it or not, ADs are more likely with a round chambered.
i no longer carry semis. i found my model 15.
i'm convinced that an AD with my cute gun is near impossible n i can just pull the trigger.
by the way, if you practice the israeli draw enow, you can chamber a round pretty fast. it's kinda a fanning motion..
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