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View Poll Results: Do you chamber a round in your CCW?
Semi - Yes and on safety 232 38.47%
Semi - Yes - no safety 293 48.59%
Semi - Never! 30 4.98%
Revolver - Hammer on empty chamber 10 1.66%
Revolver - Fully loaded - safety on 8 1.33%
Revolver - Fully loaded - no safety 303 50.25%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 603. You may not vote on this poll

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  #151  
Old 02-22-2017, 07:52 PM
LAA LAA is offline
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Problem is.....

With forums like this, some newbie gun owners, most likely will come to believe, that it's a badge of courage, to keep the safety off. They might even get embarrassed at a gun shop, if they can't find one without a safety. As to myself, I don't care. Some of mine have it, and some don't. If it's there, it's most likely on. Doesn't bother me in the least. Not a bad idea to keep one chambered, though.
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  #152  
Old 02-22-2017, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D Brown View Post
1911 - Cocked and locked. I've been carrying this way since 1995 with no problems whatsoever.
It's the way I carry every day.

It's the ONLY way I'll carry an M1911 or a Browning Hi Power.
  • This isn't Israel.
  • I'm not in the Shin Bet or the Mossad.
  • I'm not afraid of my M1911s or my BHP... certainly not more so than I am of somebody bent on slaughtering me.
  • It's hard enough to get a LOADED gun into action in a close quarters action. I want it to be an UNfair fight... for my assailant(s). I'm sure not going to try to make it easier for THEM.
  • NOBODY I know who advocates empty chamber carry has EVER demonstrated to me the ability to chamber a round one handed while a couple of ravening psychopaths is trying to choke, beat or stab him to death.
I carry a handgun to protect my life. Carrying an unloaded gun is the opposite of that.

Last edited by cmort666; 02-22-2017 at 08:20 PM.
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  #153  
Old 02-22-2017, 08:34 PM
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^^^^^^

I could not have said it better if I'd tried Cmort!
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  #154  
Old 02-22-2017, 08:51 PM
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you know, cmort, i can't prove my point, but only because the govt hides the data.
i know for a fact that there are tons of ADs by cops who carry with one in the chamber.
thing is, you can't find out how many, or even how many cops shoot themselves in a given year.
if you don't like the israeli carry, i'm convinced a double action revolver is the only safe way to go, but, like i said, i can't find the data.
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  #155  
Old 02-22-2017, 10:18 PM
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Anyone who carries with the chamber empty, should not carry at all because of their lack of confidence.
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  #156  
Old 02-22-2017, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by susieqz View Post
you know, cmort, i can't prove my point, but only because the govt hides the data.
i know for a fact that there are tons of ADs by cops who carry with one in the chamber.
thing is, you can't find out how many, or even how many cops shoot themselves in a given year.
if you don't like the israeli carry, i'm convinced a double action revolver is the only safe way to go, but, like i said, i can't find the data.
I don't base anything I do with a firearm on what cops do or don't do.

I don't have:
  • qualified immunity
  • the presumption of truthfulness
  • a union lawyer
  • a bottomless pot of other people's money
I know that the only person responsible for what I do is me, and nobody's going to make excuses... or pay for my misfeasance or malfeasance with a gun.

Hence, I bother to know:
  • applicable law
  • my firearm(s)
  • basic elements of firearms safety.

Last edited by cmort666; 02-23-2017 at 09:38 AM. Reason: Left out the word "do".
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  #157  
Old 02-23-2017, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmort666 View Post
I don't base anything I do with a firearm on what cops or don't do.

I don't have:
  • qualified immunity
  • the presumption of truthfulness
  • a union lawyer
  • a bottomless pot of other people's money
I know that the only person responsible for what I do is me, and nobody's going to make excuses... or pay for my misfeasance or malfeasance with a gun.

Hence, I bother to know:
  • applicable law
  • my firearm(s)
  • basic elements of firearms safety.
This is the issue.

I am 100% pro-police, but I believe cops should be held to the same standards as everybody else (private citizens) and we (the taxpayers) should not be subsidizing this (unionization).
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Last edited by franzas; 02-23-2017 at 01:12 AM.
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  #158  
Old 02-23-2017, 03:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by susieqz View Post
i always carried autos israeli style, empty chamber. this is because i'd rather suffer harm to myself than accidentally hurt someone.

like it or not, ADs are more likely with a round chambered.
i no longer carry semis. i found my model 15.
i'm convinced,ml that an AD with my cute gun is near impossible n i can just pull the trigger.
by the way, if you practice the israeli draw enow, you can chamber a round pretty fast. it's kinda a fanning motion..
When the Israeli Defense Force was originally formed back in the 40s, they were armed with whatever weapons they, as a nation, could quickly acquire. This meant that their pistols were a mish-mash of different designs. Some single action, some double action, some with safeties, and some without. Many were not drop safe. Many did not have holsters.

They needed one simple method to train a large number of people, many of them inexperienced in the use of arms, regardless of what weapon they had. The result was to carry with the chamber empty and rack on the draw. This method:

1) works regardless of the gun's design (SA, DA, safety, no safety)
2) prevents a non-drop-safe gun from going off if dropped (a real possibility when you just stick it in your waistband because you don't have a holster)
3) avoids the possibility of someone not accustomed to a safety sticking a loaded, cocked, and unlocked single action into their waistband

It is important to note that this method IS A COMPROMISE.

There is no tactical advantage to be gained from carrying this way. In fact there is a tactical disadvantage, because it requires both hands. With a modern firearm, there is no safety advantage to be gained from carrying chamber empty, either. (One possible exception to this is someone trying to shoot you with your own gun, but if you are planning your carry method based on someone stealing your concealed gun from you before you can react, perhaps you should reconsider carrying a gun.)

If you need to use a gun in self defense, you're already behind the curve because:
A) You didn't see the situation coming in time to avoid it.
B) You weren't able to find and take an escape from the situation once it started.
C) You weren't able to control or de-escalate the situation before a gun became your only option.
D) You need a gun RIGHT NOW.
E) Your gun is still in its holster (because you don't draw before you need it, right?)

Why put yourself at a further disadvantage by having that holstered gun unloaded as well?

You are not a member of the IDF. You are not mandated to carry your gun in a less-than-optimal manner. Why would you choose to handicap yourself this way? Why would you carry in a manner that may require more hands than you'll have available? That takes more time to deploy? That precludes the ability to fire from retention? That requires putting the gun out there in a place that's bad for retention?

The Israelis don't carry chamber empty because it's tacti-cool. It was a compromise that gained a bit of needed safety at the cost of tactical advantage. Today, now that they have standardized, modern pistols, many Israelis (like SWAT and Special Forces units) do carry with a loaded chamber.


Just carry with one in the pipe, already.
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  #159  
Old 02-23-2017, 04:15 AM
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Sig P938 carried cocked and locked
Glock 43 carried with one in the chamber no safety
CZ 75 Compact carried decocked double action no safety

I will say this. When I first was introduced to guns and started carrying, I carried on an empty chamber for a few months. With more range time and knowledge I gained the confidence to carry the gun loaded.
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  #160  
Old 02-23-2017, 07:43 AM
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Default It depends....

I depends entirely on the action of the gun and if it may contribute to an 'unwanted discharge'.
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  #161  
Old 02-23-2017, 07:51 AM
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Luckily the poll allowed multiple answers.

Semiauto always chambered, if its on my person. If equipped with safety, I prefer to use it.

DA revolvers always fully loaded.

SA revolvers always empty under hammer. I have both old style and transfer bar SA's , so I standardize my manual of arms with empty under the hammer.
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  #162  
Old 02-25-2017, 10:00 PM
Dvan34 Dvan34 is offline
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And unfortunately for police officers the most dangerous calls involve so-called family disturbances. Walking up to the home leaves them extremely vulnerable. Would you carry one in the chamber?
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  #163  
Old 02-26-2017, 02:15 AM
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Huh ??? Are there any (non-Military) Police in the US that carry chamber empty with primary duty pistol ?
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  #164  
Old 02-26-2017, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by susieqz View Post
you know, cmort, i can't prove my point, but only because the govt hides the data.
i know for a fact that there are tons of ADs by cops who carry with one in the chamber.
thing is, you can't find out how many, or even how many cops shoot themselves in a given year.
if you don't like the israeli carry, i'm convinced a double action revolver is the only safe way to go, but, like i said, i can't find the data.
You can't find the data, because it's not there. If your supposition were correct, OSHA and workman's compensation insurance carriers would force police departments to carry with an empty chamber. Officers themselves would sue their employer for being forced to carry a firearm in an inherently dangerous condition. But it's not happening . . .
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  #165  
Old 02-26-2017, 12:20 PM
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Not to mention, officers do get disciplined for such misconduct (either the empty chamber, or the ND). Seen it.
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  #166  
Old 02-26-2017, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter123 View Post
I don't know of ANY double action revolvers with a safety so that particular question demonstrates a lack of knowledge.
S&W m40
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  #167  
Old 05-31-2017, 09:49 AM
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For those who elect to carry an empty gun, here is what can and did happen recently in my town. From our local paper:

KINGMAN – Frank Dazzo must’ve had someone watching over him the day he was almost fatally stabbed by a Texas man on Mother’s Day.
The 44-year-old Frank and his father, Richard Dazzo, 65, are slowly recuperating after they were attacked by David Jay Juarez, 41, at their family business, Dazzo’s Chicago Style Eatery in Wikieup.
Richard has been back at work since the incident and took a few minutes of his day for an interview. Frank is at home recuperating from major lifesaving surgery.

Mother’s Day business took a violent turn when Juarez went haywire, grabbed a large kitchen knife, stabbed Frank in the neck and Richard in the arm.

Juarez then fled the restaurant, stole a maintenance truck from a nearby business and led Arizona Department of Public Safety troopers, Mohave County Sheriff’s deputies and Kingman Police on a high speed pursuit that ended on Andy Devine Avenue with the fatal shooting of Juarez.

Richard said the restaurant had been busy throughout the day when Juarez started acting strange.
“David was breaking out in a sweat and I told him to take a break and come back later,” Richard said. “(I think) he got mad at me because I told him to cool off.”
To Richard’s surprise, Juarez came back to the restaurant earlier than expected because he said his trailer was too hot. Richard brushed it off and continued working when Juarez grabbed a large kitchen knife and stabbed Frank – who had just returned from church – in the neck, hitting the jugular vein and immediately causing massive bleeding.


Richard was armed at the time with a pistol, but he didn’t have a round in the chamber.
“We carry guns out here,” he said. “After Frank was stabbed he said ‘Shoot the son of a *****, he stabbed me.’
“Then (Juarez) came running at me and stabbed me in the arm. I tried to cock the gun, but I had blood running everywhere. I pulled the trigger but the gun didn’t go off.”

After the stabbings, Juarez fled.

Wikieup stabbing victim says it’s a miracle son is alive | Kingman Daily Miner | Kingman, AZ
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  #168  
Old 05-31-2017, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger514 View Post
What's a safety on a revolver?
How about grip safety on a S&W Model 40?

A trigger safety on an Iver johnson hammerless from 1896? (brain freeze on Gaston's fanboys)

Webley Mark IV s specified by the Singapore police?
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  #169  
Old 05-31-2017, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunhacker View Post

And then there are the Ruger transfer bar safeties:
How about giving that clever old Norwegian, Iver Johnson, credit for coming up with the transfer bar system a century before Bill Ruger?
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  #170  
Old 06-02-2017, 04:41 PM
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Some of your really old single action revolvers would have a slot on the cylinder between each chamber. One could gently pull the hammer back and rotate the cylinder dropping the hammer with its intergal firing pin into said slot. Voila, a drop safe, fully loaded (pre tranfer bar) revolver.
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  #171  
Old 06-02-2017, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmort666 View Post
It's the way I carry every day.

It's the ONLY way I'll carry an M1911 or a Browning Hi Power.
[list][*]This isn't Israel.[*]I'm not in the Shin Bet or the Mossad....
I'm just sayin, someone who WAS in the Shin Bet or Mossad would likley say he was NOT in the Shin Bet or Mossad;-).
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