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  #51  
Old 08-18-2016, 10:22 AM
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An umbrella policy might cover a self-defense shooting.

If, God forbid, one is in a self-defense shooting, an axiom is if you win the (any) criminal case, you'll win the civil case.

I'd rather save money for the best criminal and civil attorneys. And I'd avoid prepaid legal insurance. You won't get the best because the best do not participate in such policies.
Umbrella policy will not cover an intentional act. Self defense shooting is an intentional act. (I have an umbrella policy.)

If you do your due diligence you may find that the firm that will represent you is a good one.

This is the firm that handles criminal and civil cases on the policy I elected. Scroll down their page and look at their rating. I was told the cases are not farmed out.
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  #52  
Old 01-31-2017, 02:35 PM
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I have been a member of CCW Safe for now going on four years, my girlfriend is in her second year! Service and response to questions is excellent, the benefits offered as well as the non coverage areas are clearly spelled out.

The only external communications via email are training, situational, crisis videos which are very informative. Also when there is a high profile addition to their staff. There are no messages or communications from CCW about upgrades, or any other pressure sales pitch.

Although I hope to never have to use this service I am prepared, trained in the used of the proper tools if such an eventuality was to come my way! More importantly I believe that having CCW Safe truly completes this safety loop.

In conclusion: each and everyone of you needs to do your own research and due diligence and decide what is best for you and your budget.

Long live the Republic.
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  #53  
Old 01-31-2017, 05:04 PM
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I have a fire extinguisher in both my vehicles, in my house, and a CCW Safe membership card in my wallet. I have had a couples membership for the last 4 years. Just like the extinguishers, I hope I never need to use it, but it's there if needed.
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Old 01-31-2017, 06:46 PM
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To the OP: you asked four legitimate questions but I don't see them answered in any of the posts/replies. Both companies you referenced have 800 phone numbers. I'd recommend calling them to get an "official" answer to your questions.

As an aside, I found by reading the "fine print" on some of these type policies that the policy may become null and void and provide no coverage whatsoever if you are "under the influence of alcohol". Not knee walking drunk mind you or even over the legal limit for impaired/intoxicated, just "under the influence". So if I walked into my house after work, popped a top on a cold one, had even one swallow of beer and then found myself in need of armed defense against a bad guy in the house, a policy like this would offer me no protection as I would have a MINUTE amount of alcohol in my system if tested by authorities and thus be "under the influence". Exactly how and by whom the determination is made in a case like this to test someone's blood alcohol level is unknown to me but I'd hate to find out in this manner that the protection I thought I owned was non-existent.

Ask for a COMPLETE COPY OF THE POLICY AND EXCLUSIONS and read and understand it before paying for "coverage". My $0.02, FWIW.
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Old 01-31-2017, 08:19 PM
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To the OP: you asked four legitimate questions but I don't see them answered in any of the posts/replies. .
The date of the first post was 3-29-16...
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  #56  
Old 01-31-2017, 11:25 PM
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...If, God forbid, one is in a self-defense shooting, an axiom is if you win the (any) criminal case, you'll win the civil case...
I've never heard that axiom before - is that only applicable to SD shootings?
Cause it sure didn't work out that way for OJ...
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  #57  
Old 02-01-2017, 05:19 PM
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I'm going to suggest a different approach and what is I think a better and more cost effective option.

Ask around and find a good criminal defense attorney in your area who is well versed with self defense law and the use of deadly force by armed citizens. Then meet with that attorney and pay a retainer up front to ensure his services in the event you ever need them.

Unless you look or act shady, he or she is going to view it as a very low probability that you'll ever have need for those services, so the retainer should be pretty small - on the order of $100-$150. On top of the $100-$150 or so you'll pay for the legal consult, you're only going to be out $250-$300 in up front costs.

How does this save you money? Three ways:

1) During this initial meeting your prospective attorney will tell you exactly what to do if you are ever involved in a shoot, and he or she may review the use of deadly force with you. Having that legal advice in advance makes your attorney's job a lot easier and it will often prevent your prosecution.

2) After a shoot, since you followed that advice, didn't talk your head off at the scene and waited for your attorney to arrive, your case will be much less complicated and much easier to defend, which will save you a lot of money you would have otherwise paid in legal fees.

3) instead of paying $150 a year for insurance you'll probably never need, and if needed you may not even benefit from, just bank the money in a savings account. In ten years you'll have $1,500 plus interest that is on tap for legal fees, etc if needed. In 20 years it'll be $3,000 plus interest, and if you never need it, it's still money in the bank.
I know this post is old, but I have to say that the $3000 you saved in 10 years probably won't get you through the first day of legal representation.
And that's assuming that lawyer is available when you need them or even still practicing law.
Have you noticed what the banks are paying in the way of interest lately?
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  #58  
Old 02-01-2017, 07:26 PM
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I'm going to suggest a different approach and what is I think a better and more cost effective option.

Ask around and find a good criminal defense attorney in your area who is well versed with self defense law and the use of deadly force by armed citizens. Then meet with that attorney and pay a retainer up front to ensure his services in the event you ever need them.
So what happens if you are out of your area, say traveling in another State? CCW Safe has attorneys throughout the US, and no retainer required. Just say'n.....
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  #59  
Old 02-01-2017, 10:41 PM
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From what I've read about USCCA, they are not a reimbursement company & are very upfront with what they cover. As a matter of fact, here's a link to the "fine print" of their coverage.
https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/pdf...-Guide_Web.pdf
If you go to their site, there is a comparison chart, like Irriflemann uses, (except, up to date) of them & about four or five other companies, including CCW Safe, Texas Law Shield & I believe, NRA.
They do push added items but I understand you can opt out of those emails. They ARE a business, afterall!
I have diligently compared coverages between them & several others...& weighed in not having it at all. I keep going back to my auto insurance & I may not ever need it but if I do, I'll be damned glad I have it. It's all a personal choice & I'm convinced, they will be the one I'll go with. If I had the BG's schedule, I would just avoid them & not even carry...but I don't, sooooo.

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Old 02-02-2017, 12:48 PM
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Just something else to add to the confusion.









Who do you believe?


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  #61  
Old 02-02-2017, 01:09 PM
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Who do you believe?
Neither. "Trust but verify" is getting harder and harder to do.

The only reasons I have confidence in my own policy (for retired federal LEOs) is because the underlying insurer is rated at the top of its class and the policy is endorsed by a variety of federal law enforcement organizations which I have known personally to advocate strongly for their membership. And even with that nothing is foolproof.
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  #62  
Old 02-02-2017, 03:27 PM
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Here is a link to the CCW Safe comparison chart that is easier to read:

http://ccwsafe.com/wp-content/upload...-1427x1500.png

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Old 02-02-2017, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Lee in Quartzsite View Post
Here is a link to the CCW Safe comparison chart that is easier to read:

http://ccwsafe.com/wp-content/upload...-1427x1500.png
That one's definitely easier to read.

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  #64  
Old 02-04-2017, 11:25 PM
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When I first began CC I went with USCCA. My cost was $30.00per month $360 per year for the highest paying plan. I was very impressed when I first signed on. They have an excellent magazine, but as previously stated they upend and frequently have drawings that feature 'FREE' pistols to people who sign up. Actually , they provide a certain amount of money and the winners, of course, must purchase their own firearm (or keep the money?). I was not familiar with any of the other options for CCW protection until I began checking CCW-Safe (which is NOT insurance). I suggest that anyone interested check them out themselves. For less than half what I paid USCCA , the highest coverage is available. The lawyers and staff at CCW-Safe are all former LEOs or Military who have been involved in self-defense shooting. I posted a similar post several months ago and received comments that I was 'shilling' for the company.

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Old 02-04-2017, 11:43 PM
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You are being redirected...
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Old 02-04-2017, 11:53 PM
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Often times HAVING insurance is an attraction to attorney's to sue you, I was a cop for 30 years and never put a dime in my name, my wife owned everything, my wife inherited land and money and securities and its all in her name. I was sued for millions of dollars in federal and state courts (unsuccessfully) I was in a 5 man detective unit and over the years every one of us was sued (we were indemnified so we had to wait for our suits to be resolved before we could retire) If U have insurance you're more likely to be sued....the claimants lawyers will attempt to get a settlement from your insurance coverage, they do it every day.
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Old 03-13-2017, 10:16 PM
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I had USCCa for 2 years at $360 annually, the high option. If you like their magazine and the fact that they give away Free pistols and rifles be my guest, otherwise checkout https://ccwsafe.com]CCW Safe[/url] and compare $129.00 with USCCA. Equals higher or same coverage lower cost. Then call CW-Safw and speak with them.

As for the naysayers on buying legal protection I wonder if they feel the same about auto insurance or health insurance?
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Old 03-15-2017, 11:00 AM
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I checked into a few legal defense options and USCCA from what I read was IMO a poor choice. I went with Texas Law Shield which now is in many other states.
I pay around $140 a year and I pay nothing more for legal defense should I have a problem arise concerning my use of a gun. This legal team of lawyers specializes in gun law defense. This is not merely a legal retainer it is full legal representation should I need it.
Read what a plan covers and what it doesn't cover. People don't realize the minimum for legal defense could easily start at $25,000. If a person ends up in jail for arraignment they don't want to be wondering what law firm to call and how to come up with thousands of dollars they often don't have laying around. I make a phone call and an attorney specialized in gun law is by my side. I don't pay a dime more for him representing me.
I went with the sister company, US Law Shield after a lot of research.
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Old 03-15-2017, 11:40 AM
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For the price of an attorney retainer a person could have CCW legal protection paid for.
If you have an atty. on retainer and you need a lawyer then I hope you have minimum of $25,000 at your quick disposal. Your retainer will not pay a dime towards your legal defense costs. That 25 grand could be a drop in the bucket depending how far your case goes in court.

I had Texas Law Shield which is same as US Law Shield. I suggest you check more closely what you don't get with them that CCW includes at no additional cost. Look at the chart above comparing CCW to several other plans.

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Old 03-15-2017, 01:04 PM
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Glad I came across this thread, I'm also considering g getting g this...

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Old 10-23-2018, 11:56 AM
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I know this is an old thread but you may want to go to CCW SAFE and listen to the Steven Maddox story. He was charged with 1st degree Murder in a Self Defense situation. Go to the web site and listen to his story.
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Old 10-23-2018, 12:16 PM
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We went with US Law Shield mainly because of no cap on criminal or civil lawsuits. It's there lawyers. My thoughts are they don't want to lose. Also they will defend with any weapons, asp, knife, etc. Even an accidental discharge which is probably more likely than you defending yourself.
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Old 10-23-2018, 12:25 PM
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I know this is an old thread but you may want to go to CCW SAFE and listen to the Steven Maddox story. He was charged with 1st degree Murder in a Self Defense situation. Go to the web site and listen to his story.
Leaving after the first or second assault, or after calling 911 prior to the third assault by the decedent would have kept Mr. Maddox from having to defend himself in court . . .
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Old 10-23-2018, 12:41 PM
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Leaving after the first or second assault, or after calling 911 prior to the third assault by the decedent would have kept Mr. Maddox from having to defend himself in court . . .
That matter is addressed in several podcasts on their site. Worth a listen...or not, if you'd prefer to decide without the benefit of the facts/testimony/evidence.
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Old 10-23-2018, 01:42 PM
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That matter is addressed in several podcasts on their site. Worth a listen...or not, if you'd prefer to decide without the benefit of the facts/testimony/evidence.
I understand the facts . . .
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Old 10-23-2018, 02:36 PM
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I joined the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network two years ago and will renew again next month. Hope I never need their help, but it is reassuring to be a member.
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Old 10-30-2018, 07:59 PM
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I have not read all the comments so forgive me if your question has already been answered.
I spent many hours researching the different insurance options offered by ALL the companies out there. I went with CCW Safe!
To answer your questions. 1. No answer.
2. Yes
3. yes
4. No - But you can add a $1 Million dollar rider onto the base policy of $16/per month that will cover civil judgments for an additional $16 or so per month.

Be SAFE and Shoot Often!
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Old 10-31-2018, 01:01 AM
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I signed up with Firearms Legal Protection in June during my CCW renewal class. It isn’t insurance, but a Legal Services Plan...I pay $20 a month for nationwide coverage. Here’s their FAQ page...

FAQs - Fire Arms Legal
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Old 10-31-2018, 08:26 PM
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I signed up with Firearms Legal Protection in June during my CCW renewal class. It isn’t insurance, but a Legal Services Plan...I pay $20 a month for nationwide coverage. Here’s their FAQ page...

FAQs - Fire Arms Legal
I am very skeptical of these services, more so when I read, "See our Legal Services Contract Membership Agreement for additional specificity.

Those details do not appear anywhere on the website as far as I can tell. Why the subterfuge?
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Old 10-31-2018, 08:47 PM
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I am very skeptical of these services, more so when I read, "See our Legal Services Contract Membership Agreement for additional specificity.

Those details do not appear anywhere on the website as far as I can tell. Why the subterfuge?
CCW Safe posts theirs...
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Old 10-31-2018, 09:05 PM
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Unless you have at least 25 grand even if you were in a justified shooting then you could loose everything. You might not go to jail but you might be living in your car afterwards. For the cost of some lawyer retainer you could have full legal representation with CCW coverage providing legal defense.
People say it is a waste of money on something you have less than a 1% chance of using. Whooopie! In ten years I could have saved up $1400. If that 1% happens then you better hope you can come up with perhaps at least $25 grand before an attorney will take your case. Also the $25 grand could be a fraction of what you might have to spend as the trial goes on. Do you have another $25 grand to put in the attorney' hand so he don't drop your case?
Funny how people will spend thousands on guns to carry for protection because they have a 1% chance of needing a gun to protect their life. But oh no $140 for a year of legal defense that you might never use is a waste of money?
To each his/her own. I own a gun I will have legal defense taken care of.
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Old 10-31-2018, 11:55 PM
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It provides up front money for attorney and money for your defense.
They didn't provide you with anything. So you don't know first hand. They're all garbage.
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Old 10-31-2018, 11:58 PM
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I own a gun I will have legal defense taken care of.
There's a sucker born every minute.
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Old 11-01-2018, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Mainsail View Post
I am very skeptical of these services, more so when I read, "See our Legal Services Contract Membership Agreement for additional specificity.

Those details do not appear anywhere on the website as far as I can tell. Why the subterfuge?
The fine print...It’s 10 pages so get some coffee:
Login - Fire Arms Legal

Last edited by Czechvar; 11-01-2018 at 12:18 AM.
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Old 11-01-2018, 09:31 AM
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The fine print...It’s 10 pages so get some coffee:
Login - Fire Arms Legal
Takes me to a log-in page. I guess you find out after you send them your money. Sounds like Pelosi- you have to pass the bill to find out what's in it.
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Old 11-01-2018, 10:49 AM
Czechvar Czechvar is offline
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Takes me to a log-in page. I guess you find out after you send them your money. Sounds like Pelosi- you have to pass the bill to find out what's in it.
When I signed up in June during my recert class, we had a good Q&A session that answered the questions we had. I trusted the word and judgement of my instructors...I’ve known them for 10 years.

I’d been looking for a year, and this was the best I’d heard of, and I figured I could drop it if I changed my mind. In August we had a very good meeting at the Range with one of the FLP owners, who used to be an Army JAG Lawyer. His name is Elwood Allen Chandler, Jr from Texas. So after three months I felt comfortable with the plan.

I especially like the multi state coverage for travel with my Florida Non Resident Permit. I do travel occasionally and for $20 a month that is nice.

Last edited by Czechvar; 11-01-2018 at 11:19 AM.
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Old 11-01-2018, 01:48 PM
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There's a sucker born every minute.
Do you have auto and homeowners insurance? If you do does that make you a sucker?
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Old 11-01-2018, 04:21 PM
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Do you have auto and homeowners insurance? If you do does that make you a sucker?
My state and lender require auto insurance, and my lender requires homeowners insurance . . .
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Old 11-02-2018, 01:22 AM
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Do you have auto and homeowners insurance? If you do does that make you a sucker?

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Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
My state and lender require auto insurance, and my lender requires homeowners insurance . . .
How about a fire extinguisher? Spare tire? Anybody mandating you have them? No? Bet ya' got 'em anyway. Same principle...
I have to agree with gman51.
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Old 11-02-2018, 03:09 AM
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I have to say that I agree with this member in most ways. First, insurance companies are profit making enterprises and they reap tons of money. Their aim is to collect your money for premiums and limit the amount they pay out by denying claims. One company a lot of us have dealt with is CUNA. Anyone who has a credit union account and has any insurance on it has been insured by CUNA - Credit Union National Alliance. I have had to fight with them for my disability insurance that was on my house and my loan when I was forced to take a disability retirement. They are the worst company I've ever had to deal with outside of the worlds biggest insurance scammer which is "workman's comp". However they are pretty much like most other insurance companies.

We all have some kind of insurance. Automobile insurance is required in virtually all states and now proof of same is required to be carried and presented when contacted by police or renewing plates etc. Most of us have some sort of life insurance and now under the Federal Government, we all are required to have health insurance to meet certain minimums and it must be declared on your annual tax filing or a penalty paid.

I dislike insurance as it always seems to me to be beting against yourself. I am also 70. As a retired professional LEO and firearms instructor, armorer and shooter, I have never considered CCW or shooting insurance. I know enough about the judicial system that by the time the criminal case is resolved in my favor, assuming there is one, and the family of John Q. Criminal gets an attorney and begins to file a lawsuit, it will be years down the road to resolution. When all the appeals and court work are over, I'll be in my 80's. Then they will eventually find out that I own nothing. My spouse and my children own everything. They can't get blood out of a stone. With the prevailing attitude concerning CCW's and self defense changing in this country, it is highly likely the civil action wouldn't succeed anyway. I am not going to spend any money on another insurance policy.

I often thought of getting some kind of “insurance”, kinda just to CMA.
But then I, like so many others my age have done, have signed everything I own over to others. So yes, I basically own nothing. And yes they are trustworthy people.
I do carry in my car, where I legally can. The purpose is more for any type of civil disturbance when traveling. In today’s political atmosphere we need to be able to protect ourselves and family when on the road. I find though that, I travel less and less to places that at one time where friendlier than they are now.
Just my $0.02 worth of conversation.
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Old 11-02-2018, 11:37 AM
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I'd like to hear from somebody who has made a claim . . .
This is a very important question when seeking any kind of insurance.

There is a company I'm interested in called Legal Shield. They cover all kinds of things, not just gun stuff. I know a guy who has them and has made a "claim" and was very satisfied with the service he received. So, good coverage is out there.

Another way to look at this is cost vs benefit. At $40/month, if you keep the insurance for 20 years and never use it, you will have paid $9,600. Any court case over a shooting will likely run you $50K or more. So, yeah, if you never need it, you're out some money. If you need it, it's the difference between being financially ruined and being OK.
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Old 11-02-2018, 11:58 AM
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I wonder if I could start a CCW insurance company with the business model being that our attorneys WILL represent you, however we'll always direct you to plead guilty as a [hidden in the fine print] condition of representation.

A guilty plea will always be considerably less expensive.

I wonder if we'd be copying any of the other insurers?
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Old 11-02-2018, 12:24 PM
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Check out these short videos, do your homework and decide if it's worth the price and peace of mind. Trials aren't cheap. Neither are good attorneys.

YouTube

YouTube

YouTube
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Old 11-02-2018, 12:45 PM
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I wonder if I could start a CCW insurance company with the business model being that our attorneys WILL represent you, however we'll always direct you to plead guilty as a [hidden in the fine print] condition of representation.

A guilty plea will always be considerably less expensive.

I wonder if we'd be copying any of the other insurers?
You don't need a lawyer if your plan is to plead guilty.

Also, you cannot sign away, (in advance), your right to a vigorous defense.

Any lawyer who tried to pull what you are suggesting would quickly find themselves disbarred.
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Old 11-02-2018, 08:41 PM
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Well, after some reading here, comparing, and watching some videos, I joined. Something I hope I never have to use. I have a couple Lawyers I could call but from what I see that wouldn’t keep me from loosing all I have. I feel better now.
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Old 11-03-2018, 11:22 AM
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After doing more research I will not use CCWSafe. I have corresponded by email with them more than once and they won't simply tell me if they have a lawyer in my city, which would allow for a quick response if the situation should arise.
Really, do you think they, or anyone else, has attorneys in every city in the US? They have an 800 number to call to get you an attorney. And I'm sure they have attorneys in every STATE that can be used, it's not about a city. In your case find one you like, but when you travel out of your city, then what?
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Old 11-03-2018, 11:48 AM
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Really, do you think they, or anyone else, has attorneys in every city in the US? They have an 800 number to call to get you an attorney. And I'm sure they have attorneys in every STATE that can be used, it's not about a city. In your case find one you like, but when you travel out of your city, then what?
Beyond that, they are endeavoring to establish relationships with attorneys with experience in this particular arena. Not just criminal defense in the broadest sense, but (successful) criminal defense in self-defense cases.

Anyway, to each his own. You can only put the information out there for folks to consider (or not). What they do is theirs to choose.
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Old 11-03-2018, 12:53 PM
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Just conjecture...I was thinking that, since there are so many Lawyers around, that many in this field sign on to these Firms just to bring in additional income. I don’t know how much they get paid, but I’m sure it’s a negotiated fee. Just keeping their hook in the water, so to speak. In reality, the odds of them getting a case from these Firms is about the same as us becoming involved in a Self Defense shooting...extremely small.
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Old 11-03-2018, 01:35 PM
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Just conjecture...I was thinking that, since there are so many Lawyers around, that many in this field sign on to these Firms just to bring in additional income. I don’t know how much they get paid, but I’m sure it’s a negotiated fee. Just keeping their hook in the water, so to speak. In reality, the odds of them getting a case from these Firms is about the same as us becoming involved in a Self Defense shooting...extremely small.
Yes and no. With CCW Safe alone having roughly 40,000 members, (from what I read recently), the odds of some of their affiliated attorneys getting work are a bit higher than our own odds of needing their services.
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Old 11-03-2018, 04:28 PM
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Yes and no. With CCW Safe alone having roughly 40,000 members, (from what I read recently), the odds of some of their affiliated attorneys getting work are a bit higher than our own odds of needing their services.
Yeah, but that's a pretty good deal for them. If every member is paying $40/month, that's $1.6M/month they're bringing in. $19.2M/year is pretty decent income for a service that has a very small likelihood of being needed.

Ultimately, it can be good for them and good for us. The more members they have, the lower the cost should be. I doubt they intend to lower their premiums though.
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