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Old 04-22-2020, 01:32 PM
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Default .38 Spl Snake Shot against Coyotes?

Anyone ever shot a coyote with .38 Snake Shot? Is this enough to scare off a coyote? Or is pepper spray a better choice for a non-lethal option.
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Old 04-22-2020, 01:35 PM
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Might blind it if hit in the eyes but other than that? Not much
The noise might scare it off
I just want to say that I do NOT approve of just blinding anything, coyotes or whatever. That would just be cruel.
My point is that’s about the most damage that rat shot would likely do to a coyote.
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Old 04-22-2020, 01:40 PM
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My feeling is that if you have an animal, such as a Coyote, that is NORMALLY adverse to human contact and it is now TRYING to get close to you, something is wrong. You better be prepared to put the animal down, something is wrong with that animal or it is just being aggressive.
Handgun shot cartridges are for SMALL vermin and I found out the hard way that pepper spray DOES NOT effect some people and animals, if you chose to use pepper spray and it doesn't give IMMEDIATE results, you had better be ready to escalate immediately.
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Old 04-22-2020, 01:41 PM
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1. The odds of getting close enough to a coyote to use either snake shot or pepper spray are about zilch. Coyotes are cowards & will run away from anything that might hurt them.
2. They won't get scared enough to stay away & will still come back for another try @ your pets (or even unattended children).
3. They carry all sorts of lice, fleas, etc.... why are you looking for non-lethal methods of dealing w/ vermin? They're the punk gangbanger of the animal world.
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Old 04-22-2020, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
My feeling is that if you have an animal, such as a Coyote, that is NORMALLY adverse to human contact and it is now TRYING to get close to you, something is wrong. You better be prepared to put the animal down, something is wrong with that animal or it is just being aggressive.
That used to be true but lots of wildlife these days is getting urbanized. The coyotes in my suburb show very little fear of humans and will stand and look at you boldly. My son lives in a quite urbanized area of Dallas and has bobcats showing up in his yard.

But, I think you need to be prepared to kill them, if necessary, or leave them be. Don't blind them or leave a wound.
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Old 04-22-2020, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
why are you looking for non-lethal methods of dealing w/ vermin?
My wife works out by walking in our residential neighborhood that borders the Desert. She's been complaining about being followed by a Coyote. I'm not comfortable in her ability with a 5 shot airweight to set-off a regular SD round in our neighborhood if attacked (not sure if she would even carry it).
Why I was looking for a non-lethal option.

Personally, I'd have no problem taking care of business.
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Old 04-22-2020, 01:53 PM
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Don’t shoot at anything bigger than a snake or a rat with shot out of a .38. Honestly, that’s just mean.
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Old 04-22-2020, 01:54 PM
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That makes sense. I'd go with pepper spray. Works pretty well on 2 legged predators too.
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Old 04-22-2020, 02:03 PM
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Don’t shoot at anything bigger than a snake or a rat with shot out of a .38. Honestly, that’s just mean.
This was for non-lethal SD, not just random "go-away".

My personal philosophy is if you're not bothering me, I don't bother you. I've had bobcat, coyote, snakes, etc. in my backyard. As long as they leave me alone, I leave them alone.

I'll try to get her to carry the pepper spray.
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Old 04-22-2020, 02:14 PM
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Wild animals, both predators and prey, have been more bold in my area for a while. There's a fox that lives in the small conservation area behind our house. Turkeys patrol up and down the hill where the back yards on my street are located. Deer sometimes roam the streets in our area. There are definitely coyotes in there as well as several cats and even medium sized dogs have disappeared over the past few years.

I won't be at all surprised to see a black bear in the area at some point.

We're not rural, but suburban. Years ago, we never saw any of those animals or anything larger than the occasional skunk or rabbit.




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That used to be true but lots of wildlife these days is getting urbanized. The coyotes in my suburb show very little fear of humans and will stand and look at you boldly. My son lives in a quite urbanized area of Dallas and has bobcats showing up in his yard.

But, I think you need to be prepared to kill them, if necessary, or leave them be. Don't blind them or leave a wound.
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Old 04-22-2020, 02:15 PM
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Maybe bear pepper spray would be better.
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Old 04-22-2020, 02:40 PM
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Wasp spray might work. My wife & I never leave home w/out a good defense gun (for each of us).
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Old 04-22-2020, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dump1567 View Post
This was for non-lethal SD, not just random "go-away".

My personal philosophy is if you're not bothering me, I don't bother you. I've had bobcat, coyote, snakes, etc. in my backyard. As long as they leave me alone, I leave them alone.

I'll try to get her to carry the pepper spray.
Shoot a bottle rocket at it lol! It’ll never come back again.

But here’s a solution, google bear bangers. A ligit “bottle rocket.”

Bear Bangers & Flares – Kodiak Wildlife Products | Bear Spray | Bear Bangers | Wild Life Safety Kits | Bear Bells

I used that company when I hiked extensively in Canada. They fit on top of a pen sized launcher and shoot off a banger that’d give grandma a heart attack. Fantastic product! I still have it attached to my backpack.
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Old 04-22-2020, 02:54 PM
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How is she in throwing rocks? That is all that is required 99% of the time. In the extraordinarily rare occurrence of encountering a coyote that has advanced Rabies, only a good self defense cartridge is going to be the solution. Teach her to carry, present and shoot accurately a minimum of a 22 WRM if she is that worried.

I have spent most of my outdoor life in Arizona and Nevada. The most usual sight of a coyote has always been of its rear end leaving as fast as possible.
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Old 04-22-2020, 03:22 PM
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Default I have zero confidence....

...in .38 snakeshot to ward off coyotes. It might run off, it might make it mad. Either way it will only pepper its skin and won't do a thing to stop it. And you have to be CLOSE to get any effect at all.
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Old 04-22-2020, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Injunbro View Post
1. The odds of getting close enough to a coyote to use either snake shot or pepper spray are about zilch. Coyotes are cowards & will run away from anything that might hurt them.
2. They won't get scared enough to stay away & will still come back for another try @ your pets (or even unattended children).
3. They carry all sorts of lice, fleas, etc.... why are you looking for non-lethal methods of dealing w/ vermin? They're the punk gangbanger of the animal world.
Judgemental, are we?

1. Like a coyote, I tend to run away from anything that might hurt me. I guess that makes me a coward.
2. They will take unattended pets. Keep your cats indoors, watch your purse-dog closely, and attend your children.
3. Yeah, they can be infested, not really their fault. Punk gangbanger is harsh. Another way to look at it is they are the ultimate survivors, able to adapt to urbanization and encroachment on their range.

I like and admire the coyote for its intelligence and perseverance, which may not be a popular position on this forum and in life in general.

If you insist on shooting a coyote, use something that will make a clean kill.

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Old 04-22-2020, 03:33 PM
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My opinion is to get an air horn if you want to scare it off through sound.

A big stick if you want a non-lethal alternative.

A self defense round if you plan to shoot it.
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Old 04-22-2020, 04:25 PM
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I've seen coyotes before, but this winter I was hiking in a small preserve just north of Tampa - bordered by homes and within a mile or so of a big high school - and out pops something a bit bigger! After googling a bunch of pictures I decided it was one of those coy-wolf hybrids.

He took one look and scooted. Stopped behind a bush for another look and then he was gone. But I was still happy to have the J on me.
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Old 04-22-2020, 04:25 PM
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I have coyotes roaming my 40 acres also, have caught a few on game cameras and find their scat almost daily but they don't bother me and I don't bother them.
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Old 04-22-2020, 04:33 PM
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If you're going to shoot at a coyote, you'd better shoot to kill him.. If you don't, you're just making him smarter.
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Old 04-22-2020, 04:39 PM
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Yes to bee spray or bear spray. I used a walking stick a lot... I might be inclined to put a heavy, sharped base section on it.
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Old 04-22-2020, 06:35 PM
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Frankly, if Coyotes are getting close enough/acting aggressive enough that you feel the need to shoot at them, then it's a serious threat and thus should be treated as such.

Carry real bullets and shoot to kill, it isn't worth the risk of injury to yourself, much less others who might not carry a firearm at all and may come into contact with such Coyotes.
Besides, snake shot may not be lethal, but it could still leave the Coyote permanently blinded and therefore as good as dead in nature, only it will die much worse than it would from a bullet, so it's actually more humane to just shot it dead if need be and be done with it.
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Old 04-22-2020, 06:39 PM
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If you are in a neighborhood with sidewalks and paved roads and houses a frangible load makes a lot of sense. But there are much better frangible loads than birdshot.
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Old 04-22-2020, 06:49 PM
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I have patterned snake shot in 38, 357, 9MM, and 44 mag. All but the 44 did not pattern well unless you were 4 or 5 feet from the snake. At 10 feet the 44 patterned very well.

Conclusion. I ain’t getting within a few feet to shoot a snake. A 44 is too big and loud. At 10-20 yards, snake shot is useless for coyotes.

If the coyotes become aggressive, shoot to kill with a decent caliber.
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Old 04-22-2020, 06:56 PM
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Could I recommend a stout walking stick? Any self respecting coyote will understand it's meaning. It might even be more effective and even potentially lethal than trying to hit a moving target with a small hand gun. Not to mention issues with discharging a firearm in a populated area.
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Old 04-22-2020, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
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Or is pepper spray a better choice for a non-lethal option.
Pepper spray (the stuff sold to carry on a keychain) is no good: fairly mild stuff that is usually effective at arm’s length against a drunk boyfriend but it’s nothing like bear spray.

Bear spray is much more potent, comes in a large container that’s fairly easy to handle and shoots an effective stream at good 50 feet.

Bear spray is a good, non-lethal choice for coyotes or two legged vermin. Pepper spray is not.
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Old 04-22-2020, 07:24 PM
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Pepper spray (the stuff sold to carry on a keychain) is no good: fairly mild stuff that is usually effective at arm’s length against a drunk boyfriend but it’s nothing like bear spray.

Bear spray is much more potent, comes in a large container that’s fairly easy to handle and shoots an effective stream at good 50 feet.

Bear spray is a good, non-lethal choice for coyotes or two legged vermin. Pepper spray is not.
Just keep in mind that if you go with any pepper or bear spray that even the slightest breeze will put a nicely atomized mist right back in your face.

If you happen to load your own, load up some #2 or #4 shot and cap it with a 50-70gr wad cutter. Do a bit a research---lots of info out there.
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Old 04-22-2020, 07:44 PM
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Yeah, I walked into the residual mist trying to get closer after trying to spray a bear on my deck at midnight, wearing only underwear. Thankfully, there are no pictures. I'm pretty sure I got the short end of that stick.
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Old 04-22-2020, 07:45 PM
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In the extraordinarily rare occurrence of encountering a coyote that has advanced Rabies, only a good self defense cartridge is going to be the solution.
As most have stated previously, a coyote would normally rather run away from you. Remember, I said normally. Having one follow you is pretty much out of the norm. Is it sick, i.e. rabid? Who knows? Some may say that it is just being curious. Don't kid yourself. They've adjusted to humans so completely that they know exactly what you are. Also, as has been stated previously, they're extremely smart and are dangerous predatory animals, no matter what you've seen on the Disney channel.

I would definitely stay away from the snake shot, whistles, big sticks, party poppers, sprays, etc. If the coyote is following your wife at a distance of 75 yards or more, I probably wouldn't sweat it much. On the other hand, if it's closer than that, it sure wouldn't take it long to shorten the distance to your wife if it so desired.

Personally, if it were my wife in that situation, I'd either walk with her with me being armed....or I'd have her carry a handgun and be darned confident that she knew how to use it exceptionally well.

Again, that's just my view from the saddle.
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Old 04-22-2020, 09:05 PM
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The folks who lived across the road from us put their fat Chihuahua out in the yard to "do his business" they heard a yelp, he was gone. Next morning they put the other out but watched him, a coyote approached stalking, they took a shot at him missed but scared him off. This is a rural area houses yards along the road after that pasture then swampy woods. I used to see coyotes often, not so much now. Lots of people here have set up shooting ranges (targets) in their back yards, weekend afternoons sometimes sound like a war going on. My yard too! I think the sound of gunfire may keep them away. Good riddance!
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Old 04-22-2020, 09:06 PM
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No weapon is effective without proper training and the will to use it. The Cooper axiom "Don't point a gun at anything you don't want to destroy" fits into the "will to use it" category.

All of the coyotes I ever encountered in the wild ran from me like scalded cats. The ones in the "civilized" Chicago suburbs, not so much.

I carry a Cold Steel Blackthorn when walking the dog, in addition to my EDC. I would probably use the stick before the gun on a coyote or aggressive dog, but either would have to be pretty determined for it to come to that since my dog is a 60 pound Walker coonhound and not exactly shy himself. However I have a) been trained in the use of impact weapons and b) used them effectively on feral dogs in the past.

A weapon you don't know how to use or are unwilling to use is false security.
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Old 04-22-2020, 09:39 PM
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Here is something that just popup today when I was on line. Have never heard about it until today but watching the video, it might drive a coyote off it you hit it.
Best Non-Lethal Self-Defense Products For Men and Women
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Old 04-22-2020, 09:47 PM
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If used within 10 feet it would sting. I would make the second shot something lethal.
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Old 04-22-2020, 10:30 PM
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We see them trotting down the street in our suburban neighborhood a few times a year. Deer too. Even had a porcupine in a tree in our back yard.
The wild critters aren't staying out in the wild so much these days.
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Old 04-22-2020, 10:53 PM
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No in answer to your use of shot in a 38 for coyotes.

I would leave the Mrs with two rounds of CCI shot followed by four 158gr JSP 38s in the Security Six Snub, when I was out of town.
Would love to have a smooth bore barrel, choked & patterned for a snubby snake gun.

Beats an Oklahoma buddy who had a Moccasin attached to his heel, closed his eyes, just pointed the 12 gauge down and lucked out.
Long hospital stay.

Have run into a Brown Recluse or three at the Aquatic Center years ago.
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Old 04-22-2020, 10:54 PM
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Wild Animals really are coming out of the woods and into neighborhoods with increasing frequency.

I've told this story before, but the whole reason why I decided to upgrade from the .380 ACP as my primary Self-Defense cartridge was due to increasing numbers of wild animals showing up in my area. It started with deer coming out of the woods, which wasn't at all threatening but rather pleasant, but then I started hearing Coyotes howling outside at night, finding tracks in the yard, hearing from my mother about sighting a hog in the neighbor's field complete with her reqing that I help her pick a gun to carry around while walking her dogs, and finally finding bear scat in my yard.
Previously I carried a single stack .380 ACP in the form of a Walther PPK/S and a Ruger LCP, but now I carry a SW40VE with the LCP as backup.
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Old 04-22-2020, 11:03 PM
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If you shoot a coyote with fine shot from a handgun, you are more likely to do either nothing or to handicap it for hunting it's normal prey. Making it turn to easier prey. Pets etc. A handicapped , starving animal is much much more dangerous. {Not less dangerous , and there is no lesson learned} A injured , starving animal is not something you would wish to have in you area . Either Kill or don't Kill. There is no half way. If you are going to kill, do it clean and quick. Don't wound.
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Old 04-22-2020, 11:39 PM
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At my old job a small pack of coyotes lost ALL fear of humans. Since I saw them hunting rodents around the old buildings and they were not bothering me I left them alone. Then some of the renter's young children started approaching them with friendly doggy greetings and the coyotes would barely back off. We're talking children within 10 feet of coyotes. I had a little chat with the owner about potential liability and was instructed to put the fear of humans back in the pack. It only took one .45 bullet to make the whole pack flee for cover at the sight of a human. I'd guess one bullet would be good for 5 years or more. I bet you could get it done without making a public event out of. I did not ask the neighbors' opinions and gave it over 20 years before chatting about it on the internet.

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Old 04-23-2020, 08:05 AM
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Although that might work in an otherwise quiet neighborhood, in a noisy neighborhood like mine in which someone is always working with power tools, hammering nails, honking their horn every single time they drive past a friend's house, and lighting fireworks practically every Summer holiday, the Coyotes will obviously be desensitized towards loud noises, ergo the Joe Biden method may prove completely ineffective.
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Old 04-23-2020, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Dump1567 View Post
My wife works out by walking in our residential neighborhood that borders the Desert. She's been complaining about being followed by a Coyote. I'm not comfortable in her ability with a 5 shot airweight to set-off a regular SD round in our neighborhood if attacked (not sure if she would even carry it).
Why I was looking for a non-lethal option.

Personally, I'd have no problem taking care of business.
Might I suggest going with her? The behavior suggests it is up to no good and may bring friends along. Besides, wouldn't it be great to get some fresh air?
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Old 04-23-2020, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyM52 View Post
If you shoot a coyote with fine shot from a handgun, you are more likely to do either nothing or to handicap it for hunting it's normal prey. Making it turn to easier prey. Pets etc. A handicapped , starving animal is much much more dangerous. {Not less dangerous , and there is no lesson learned} A injured , starving animal is not something you would wish to have in you area . Either Kill or don't Kill. There is no half way. If you are going to kill, do it clean and quick. Don't wound.
The assumption here is an attack on a human. Normal hunting ethics do not apply. Any wound to the attacking animal is ethical. Obviously mortal wounds are more effective. But if a coyote attacks and you manage to wound it with a 22 or bird shot or a stick only to have it die later then that is no moral issue. I’d still prefer a defense that will absolutely stop the animal. But when the attack (by an animal) makes it “them or me” there are no further questions of hunting ethics. Notice that I specifically mentioned animals. Human attackers are still considered to have some moral and legal protections. I’m not trying to drag them into this discussion.

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Old 04-23-2020, 10:11 AM
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Maybe one of the .410 revolvers would pack more punch without concern of a errant round in the neighborhood.
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Old 04-23-2020, 10:32 AM
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if i were in a situation where I felt a coyote was a danger to me. I would put it down quickly and humanely. I would not use snake shot or anything that would have him suffer. Just my two cents.
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Old 04-23-2020, 10:33 AM
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Snake shot is for small snakes.

In a urban settin'.........

I might consider this as a minimum last ditch measure.
Up close and personal.



In a 410 handgun.


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Old 04-23-2020, 10:50 AM
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A good slingshot with 3/8”+ steel ball bearings would be a good motivator up to ~20 yards.

Slingshots for sale
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Old 04-23-2020, 11:04 AM
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During pheasant/quail season this year in Kansas I shot a running coyote with both barrels of my 20 gauge Side by Side shotgun at about 30 feet. The first barrel was #8 shot improved cylinder and it had no affect, the second barrel was #4 shot 3 inch Magnum, improved-modified choke and I saw the fur ruffle right behind his shoulder exactly where I was aiming. He twisted his head a little towards the wound but never broke stride and he jumped a fence and ran full speed another 250 yards until he was out of sight. So no, I don't think .38 Special snake shot is adequate for coyotes.

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Old 04-23-2020, 11:21 AM
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I would never shoot any animal unless I intended to kill it - quickly.
That said:
A long, long, long time ago I shot a stray dog with a 22 shot shell out of a Jennings pistol. The dog was across the yard from me. I lived in the country. I truly believe the noise scared it worse than any pieces of shot that may have hit it. It never came back.

If a coyote was bothering me and I lived in an urban or suburban setting I would carry some good pepper spray in addition to my 38. If I lived in the country I'd wait till I got a good shot then kill it with a full charge lead boolit and not think twice about it.

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Old 04-23-2020, 11:27 AM
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Try shooting a tin can with birdshot. Probably won't even penetrate out of a .38.

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Old 04-23-2020, 12:01 PM
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Several good points have been made here-----------

If you can get close enough to a coyote for either pepper spray or a handgun shot shell to even be remotely effective, there's something bad wrong with that animal--------and it needs to be dispatched---forthwith!!

But those coyotes are wicked smart----especially compared to wild dogs. We have both--but not at the same time ('cause when a coyote shows up, the dogs are headed for where the coyote isn't). A single coyote puts the run on a whole pack of dogs-----much the same as a single human does---unless the human is camouflaged. I say camouflaged, but not with an outfit from Bass Pro Shop---all you need is to be in or on a vehicle of some sort. Then you don't seem to exist as far as the dogs are concerned--and you can get right up on them.

The coyotes are a different matter. First of all I've never seen one run---they just lope along. I guess they figure that's the best use of their energy. I also have never seen one run away. They'll keep their distance, but don't run away. And never mind being camouflaged by being in or on a vehicle. They react exactly the same----they keep their distance.

All except for the youngsters that is-----inquiring minds want to know. I was out mowing a small patch, and saw something move---something brown. The next time around, here's a coyote----not a baby by any means, but close enough to it to be cute. It's looking at me as if to say, "What are you, and why are you making all that noise?" Then it scampered off. The next time around here it is again---this time with two copies of itself. It turns to them, and this time it seems to say, "See, I told you-----there it is again!"

Ralph Tremaine
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Old 04-23-2020, 12:12 PM
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You need to follow the wife on one of her walks, keep enough distance to allow the culprit to make an advance and then take care of business.
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