I went to the range today to do some shooting with my BHP. They had a new target choice that I had not seen before. It's called FATAL HITS. It has a bad guy clad in all black aiming a gun at you, and once you're done shooting you lift up the target and there is a second one underneath that shows if the shot hit vital organs (brain, heart, lungs, kidney).


I thought it was pretty cool, but don't know if I will shoot it again. What do you guys think?

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Stay protected my friends.

I think you got him pretty good!
Steve W

You sure would have spoiled his whole day.

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Eccentric old coot

Sir,

I was intrigued to see this target, but I can share your apprehension. I like the idea of having a visual of seeing the damage that I may inflict if I have to fire in self defense. However, I think that if someone makes a habit of practicing on a target like this, and they are involved in a self defense shooting, the prosecution and civil liability lawyers could have a field day in court!

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Judge control not gun control!

Honestly I don't see the advantage. Or the point. If you are forced to use your gun to save your life, presumably you'll try for hits center mass anyway. This is a bit like a do-it-yourself autopsy. Kind of creepy, really.

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Oh well, what the hell.

You shoot a guy thru the nose he may not expire immediately
but he won't be posing any further threat.
You did some fine shooting there.
Whats these targets run, cost wise?
A good ole silhoutte works for me.

Chuck


Chuck

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They hold no Quarter

Shoot someone through the nose and you have a good chance of hitting the Brain Stem, the part of the brain that controls the hearts and lungs. Since this particular area is 100% essential a hit in this area is always 100% Fatal.

I saw those targets the one time I shot at Action Impact and thought they were rather expensive gimmicks, so passed on that. I also passed on Action Impacts attitude towards any reload except for those they happened to be selling and found the one salesman with TWO thigh holsters AND TWO waist holsters to be way beyond "tactical", he had so much hardware strapped to his waist he waddled when he walked and I would expect he'd have trouble just drawing one of those handguns if it were needed. Obviously a hardcore follower of Gecko45 or perhaps Gecko45 himself.

i think the target is cool i like to see ranges present new stuff i would try one in a minute.

Wouldn't interest me. I just use 6 inch paper plates, usually 4 to 6 stapled to cardboad.

I second Jim Lock's suggested use of paper plates. I staple a 8" just under a 4" at the proper distance to represent brain area and center mass area. Works great for both accuracy practice and speed drills like 'two to center mass with one to the head'. ............

I've seen the underneath target with out the cover target before .. no different then others .. we all try to hit center mass or head shots directed towards the nose ..

I shoot at paper plates with either a red or black dot in the center .. much cheaper .. 2 plates one up high one down lower represents the human target .. head and mid section !! I can get a whole stack of them for a couple of bucks ..

Wasn't there/ isn't there a B-? target with the vital organs outlined in very light gray????

Most often I shoot "bullseye" targets - not silhouettes, so I'm aiming to shoot the red out of the center. But when I do shoot silhouettes I aim for center mass.

This target cost $1.50...twice the cost of regular targets, and I only shot it because I thought it would be fun to shoot the novelty target and see what damage my rounds actually did.
Expensive? Yes. But buying (1) won't break me.

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Stay protected my friends.

Don't want to sidetrack the thread but wanted to mention this because I know the salesman you referred to. He is a former army MP, and has been involved in two gunfights as a civilian.
Away from the job he still carries four firearms - hip(strong side), left pocket, ankle, and small of back.

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Stay protected my friends.

Exactly,i'm with you on this one jim lock!

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Life is short,live it fully.

I'll stick with my bullseye targets. Too much emphasis is placed on killing people these days. I like small groups but they don't have to be in a person's heart. Reminds me of the blood and guts slasher movies....the blood and gore gets old , it's not scarey. One of the scariest movies I ever saw was Psycho with Anthony Perkins and Janet Leigh....I still lock the door when I shower !
Gary

Paper plates are still too expensive for me.

I recycle my note papers from work. All my and my wife's to to lists get flipped over and a small spray of paint. 8x11 or smaller pieces of paper. Size dictates the distance. Reduce, reuse, recycle, right?

I like the concept of this target, but it is not anatomically correct. They show the brain as being only in the part of the skull that is above the eyebrow; that's wrong.

In fact, the most damaging part is right where you shot. The temporal lobe, cerebellum and brain stem are not on the target at all. Those are the parts that guarantee a stop.

And, just in case it wasn't clear, nice shooting. Right in the heart and in the cranio occular cavity. It doesn't get better than that.

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Freedom isn't free.

I shoot at my used .22 rimfire bullseye targets. B-2s and B-3s, the 50-footers. The black is 3" across. Good out to 25 yards.

I'm very green like that.

Anyways, thing looks like an expensive gimmick for the tactards and mall ninjas. Sure as hell it's jury-bait.

There's a place for realistic targets. It's called a shooting house, and the purpose is target identification and shoot/don't-shoot training.

I don't see what the big deal is shooting that again unless it was priced at $5 a piece.

Who's gonna know what you were shooting at? And if we're playing that game then I'll just add that regardless of what is on the back you're still shooting a picture of a person and not a simple circular bullseye. Does this mean you were practicing to kill people?

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In a perfect world, we'd be judged by 12 reasonable individuals, maybe even one or two gun owners among them. Our defense would be competent and articulate, and the prosecution would be solely interested in seeking the truth.

In the world we actually live in, we are going to be judged by 12 members of the public. Gun owners are likely to be specifically excluded from the pool. Your defense, if you choose poorly, may not know the first thing about guns. The prosecutor will be concerned primarily with his re-election prospects. The "victim" you shot will be presumed perfectly innocent, regardless of his criminal history. Every aspect of your character, though, will be on trial. Every skeleton will be dragged out of the closet. If you, God help you, got professional training, it will be argued that you did so because you're a wanna-be cop/soldier. If you used hollowpoints, it's because you wanted to kill and maim. The name of your gun will be bandied about if you were silly enough to carry something called the NightPro Custom Killer chambered in .42 Magnum Deathdealer.

Me, if I'm gonna go on trial, I want every single person to talk about what a calm, friendly sort I am. A pillar of my community, a paragon of responsible gun ownership, an avid shooter and the definition of a sportsmanlike competitor. I wanna carry some nameless gun, and I wanna load it with Hornady Critical Defense, the most smartly-branded product in the history of trade (every time somebody refers to your ammo, they have to repeat two key words in your hopeful exoneration: "critical" and "defense").

I do not want them to talk about how I practiced shooting at pictures of people.

For more on why I think the things I think, check out Mas Ayoob's On Deadly Force. Good book full of case studies where people got railroaded into jail, and sometimes talked themselves there.

Does it chuckle when you shoot it with a .380 or 9mm?

<ducks>

Ha!

But seriously, God help me if I meet a guy that laughs off .380s. I'll sure as hell be duckin' and runnin'.

I do the same. My gun doesn't even have an name. Just one letter and 2 numbers. And the numbers don't even indicate caliber, just the patent number! My ammo is gold dot. Doesn't even have the word "critical" in it. However, you are still shooting at a picture of a human being. Oh so you're shooting center mass....you obviously want to train to kill! See how even that can work against you.

Also, I'm going to say this as it relates to the actual target being talked about and not in a political way. The target is black....it's all black but black none the less. Aaaannd....on top of that, that looks like a hoody being worn.

Just about any of that can work against you. The only thing I can think of that doesn't have some sort of stigma attached to it is a plain white paper plate with your shoots either being all over the place or somewhere in the corner more or less together

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If you don't carry your own what are some of your going rate's per target? Where I go it's a flat $1 for any target I've only been going for 2 weeks 3-4 days a week sometimes less.

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MP SHIELD 9

"Critical" is a good word. It implies the situation was dire and your actions were necessary.

On the dark-colored target, that's not even a joke. A politically-motivated police sergeant in the city I used to live in raised a big ol' fuss on the community meeting circuit because the department used black silhouette targets on a white background to qualify and train. It worked, too, she got elected to city council and proceeded to help run the place into the ground.

I wish I was making that up.
Pay for targets? What's this?

Guys complain about the club I belong to, but they don't know how good they have it. They get to bring their own targets, pick up their own brass, and we don't even make them buy ammo here!

By the way, if you want a passel of targets cheap, head over to your local print shop. If you can buddy up with some guys, you can get a few thousand targets printed up for under 10 cents each (goes as low as a nickel), all on nice heavy card stock.

Targets are .75 cent/ at any of the ranges I shoot at.

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Stay protected my friends.

If You want cheap, just save Your old t shirts and staple one over a b 5 or a USPSA target. Teaches center of mass effectively.

Yes, but only once....and that's BEFORE the shooting starts.

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Stay protected my friends.

YEA... But paint is really expensive!!! LOL I have to admit I like the reactive targets, ("Dirty Bird" is my favorite.. and cheapest), makes it easier for my old eyes to see what the trigger finger has been up to... and I'm ALL ABOUT the instant gratification.

FWIW, I've learned the hard way, many times, that some folks present themselves as something they aren't, and claim experiences they haven't had, to boost their perceived prestige. This gentleman may well be everything that is claimed and more, but then again, it's wise to assess the validity of people's claims before accepting them at face value.

No offense to anyone intended, have just dealt with countless proven posers claiming to have been snipers, Special Forces, SEALS, Prisoners of War, Combat veterans, Combat Wounded, Huey Door Gunners, fake veterans, etc. ad nauseum. Stolen Valor cases are surprisingly common, and not limited to just the military.

I don't think Jim Cirillo, Jelly Bryce, etc. carried guns stashed all over their bodies despite having won MANY gunfights. Extreme behavior or highly-unusual claims are often reasons to raise your BS-detector to High Alert, until claims can be verified. Of course, individual differences DO exist, just don't automatically believe everything you hear!

John

Well, Cirillo did commonly carry three.

I agree that the the target could be more anatomcally correct. As a law enforcement firearms instructor, I am always looking for something different to keep the training interesting. This is certainly different.

i agree wit the poster above what are you going to do shoot a paper plate your whole life. i like mixing it up and having alittle fun at the same time thats what life is all about

Nobody is going to prison because they shot at a paper target with a picture of a person on it. It never has happened and never will happen.

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Freedom isn't free.

Glad somebody finally said it!

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Stay protected my friends.

I shoot bullseye targets because 20 years ago a friend of mine had access to an old National Guard range shack that was going to be made into a runway, I had a Toyota corolla station wagon that I filled up with old water soaked targets. We shared but I've still got a bushel box full. And that's after giving away bunches to friends. That all being said If you didn't have a good enough Defense Lawyer that would mention that you practiced so that you could a. defend yourself, and b. so that you could stop the attacker (never mentioning that you planned on "KILLING" anyone, because you don't plan on that ever) oh and c. that you could make sure that you hit what you were aiming at,( the bad guy not some innocent bystander) unlike some police officers in large cities.
Knowing where the vital organs are is important to stop an attacker. Shooting the gun out of an attackers hand happens in the movies not in real life. Hitting someone in the heart isn't a sure thing that you will stop the attack, knowing where to shoot after that plan hasn't worked involves knowing anatomy and this target is a great way to learn that.
Oh prior to my haul of targets I used to shoot paper plates and water bottles (picking up my trash) while both are great to see that you hit what you were aiming at, having a target that shows "some" anatomy puts your shooting in perspective. YMMV

I noticed that the gun on the bench was a Browning Hi Power Great shooting gun.

Like I said, check out On Deadly Force. People have hired perfectly competent attorneys, who sought out expert testimony and consulting, and then, for whatever reason, threw it completely out the window. Not because they were stupid or just bad at being attorneys, but because they're not gun people.

Shooting them in the head isn't a guarantee, either. Bullets happily skip off of skulls all the time.

In fact, the only guarantee I've ever read came from Bill Jordan. He guaranteed that if you get into a gunfight, you're not going to be expecting it. But I digress, somewhat.

Anyways, shooting for particulars of anatomy sounds awful optimistic to me.

Care to be a test case?

Do you remember what happened to George Zimmerman?

How about Larry Hickey? He shot two of three attackers in self-defense, and wound up spending 71 days in jail while his family, friends, and fellow firearms instructors worked to raise his $200,000 bail. Trial #1 wound up with a hung jury. Trial #2 went favorably because the attackers had to change their stories to sue Hickey for his home insurance money--but it was still a hung jury, but this time only two voted to convict. Here's some fun bits:

https://armedcitizensnetwork.org/ima...ey_Booklet.pdf

Remember, self-defense is an affirmative defense. That is, you are not contesting the fact that you shot the injured/deceased, but you are arguing that your actions were necessary. This means that you have to prove you were justified, to the standard that your state requires.

Make no mistake, your state of mind and character are central to making your case. And, being the accused, you're already starting at a disadvantage. These days, you're at real risk of being put under a national microscope in a self-defense incident. Everything can come out, and there are people who will happily ruin your life just to score a point against those pesky gun owners.

Why give them any ammunition?

IF they found out about it. I think I'd just keep quiet about it.

No "human" type targets allowed at my gun club. I shoot 25 yard NRA paper bulls-eyes. I count up the points to see if I've improved. Since the "human" targets can't shoot back, I really don't see the point using them.

Do you know who makes these targets? I haven't been able to find them.

Interesting, but I don't quite see the point either.

Perhaps the next marketing coup would be a reactive paper target - once you hit a vital area it falls off the backing and you can't shoot it any more.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

John, you pretty well nailed it. If you were to see this particular salesman your BS detector would be going off louder than a fire engine crossing a busy intersection. He had so much hardware strapped on that I don't think he would be able to run 3 steps without something falling off or out and as for drawing one of those handguns, if he went for one of the ones in a thigh holster he would hit one in the waist holster before getting it free.

Yes, it's the one I shoot best.

I will post the makers name when I get home.

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Stay protected my friends.

The company that makes it is fatalshottargets.com.
Target number SD002

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Stay protected my friends.

Chalk that one right up there with Mossberg's "Zombie" product line.

Already been done: Law Enforcement Targets | Action Target : 3D Target (15 Pack)
Only problem is that the paper clips we used on the balloons would sometimes hang up and prevent the target from falling.

I put some thrift store shirts on the above targets one time. The sight of clothing downrange tripped me out every time I went to verify that no one was downrange.

That's actually kinda neat. It's politely ambiguous, and I like the idea of a target that or scenario that requires an indeterminate number of hits.

Shame about the price, though. Kinda puts it out of the "reasonable" category for most private citizens' wallets. Although I'm sure a handy individual could fab up something to replicate it for their own use.