It's been my experience that cute little radio jingles absent music... comforting not comfortable ... is of little help to the decision process.

For me, a carry gun must to be comfortable and not bothersome through the day or I simply won't carry it all the time. Since I'm not interested in carrying part time, I drop an LCP in my pants pocket in the morning and it stays there till bedtime. I don't feel the need to disarm myself every time I walk in the front door of my home then forget when I leave again or rationalize it's not worth the bother for a walk down the street, just a short ride to the store... on and on and on... no thanks.

My full size handguns lay around all day holding down the safe while my LCP is out working for a living. So ya know... it is what it is.

The LCP has minimal sights and I have old tired eyes. I'm comfortable with the performance of both for the intended purpose.

7yds

The chance of winning the powerball lottery are much higher than the average citizen having to confront multiple or even a single terrorist. That's just reality. That does not mean you don't practice and train. You are carrying a deadly weapon. You damn well better know hoow to use it competently. That said, I'd rather hit the target with a .380 than miss with a .45.

Too small, too big, too heavy, too light... people discover they have made a mistake after purchase for all sorts of reasons.

I believe the most common mistake, speaking from personal experience and those I know, is buying guns that are larger/heavier than folks are willing to carry. "What's the point" of a carry gun left at home?

I agree it's a mistake to not adequately train, whether for a gun to carry of home defense. That said, countless untrained inexperienced people successfully use guns to defend themselves. That's not an endorsement for a lack of training, just reality.

I tried internet cheap-o's and a two more expensive "name brand" pocket carry holsters. The more expensive ones were the best of the lot.

But none of them were 'just right'. So, I decided to learn from the commercial holsters construction techniques an make my own holster to fit "my own" pockets.

Just finished sewing, riveting and gluing it together from Kydex (good stuff) and thin double faced neoprene. So far it is much more comfortable that the "professionally done" ones I bought. It also sits lower in my pocket (better concealment) and rides better (no shifting around when I move or walk).

Time will tell, but I think I may have a good prototype design. I'm happy with it anyway;... until I come up with Revision 2.

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M638-3, M36, USCCA Member

During a break one of my students was telling me about his latest gun.
Custom made 1911 with all the bells and whistles. Cost over $3,500.
I asked if I could see it. He said you could, but it's at home in the safe.
I said I have a better gun than that. He said you do, what is it? I said
it's a Colt Agent .38 Spl. Real smooth action. A lot of the parkerizing is
worn off, but it shoots straight. Got it at a pawn shop for $250. How
in Hell do you figure that's better than mine? He asked. Because it's
right here. I pulled up my shirt and showed him. The best one is the
one you have when/if you need it. Right?

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In Omnia Paratus

In context, considering the time when the statement was made and the comparatively small variety of handguns available, it is most "likely" that Col. Cooper was addressing complaints about the discomfort of carrying the heavy all steel guns of the day.

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Stay protected my friends.

Hehehehehe....LOVE it!

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Stay protected my friends.

Sure smaller guns are easier to make comfortable. However, holster design is more important than the size/shape of the firearm.

I have comfortably carried a Glock 17 IWB before and uncomfortably carried an LCP.

I have never found any gun, with any IWB holster to be comfortable, in any way!

For me, a Galco Concealable holster, or a Galco FLETCH, if you need retention, is hard to beat! Both are OWB, real leather, high-ride, stable, and lay flat against your body. Now that's comfort! I even forget I'm wearing it, even with a medium size pistol. Large pistols, still very comfortable, but due to the weight, you'll know it's there.

crazyphil,

Great thread.

If a gun's not comfortable to carry, I'm more apt to leave it behind.

I've gone all comfort. I have excellent holsters and, as important, excellent quality 100% leather gun belts: one 1.5 wide and .25" thick leather for urban carry & the other 1.75" wide and .25" thick leather for hunting and fishing.

From my experience, a 1911A1 is the easiest gun to conceal and carry comfortably. The smaller sized ones would probably be better. But the full-size 1911A1 has the most natural point of any handgun I've ever held. The 1911 seems to have been designed to carry comfortably.

If I'm wearing the right belt, I can carry my S&W 1911 at my strong side waistline by stuffing it inside my pants, although I'd never recommend this carry for anyone. When I have carried in such a manner, it was for a short time such as running into a local stop & rob.

Good leather, holster & belt, and hand gunners will be forever happy.

BTW, I've carried a Model 60 in darn near every conceivable manner. But If I were to carry it for an extended period of time, I'd use my Galco Speed Paddle, which, for me, is all money.

TAC,

I'm right with you. I have one IWB holster for my Model 60. I might've used it once some 30 years ago.

You nailed it on the belts. It is the most important item to ensure any degree of comfort when carrying a decent size handgun.
I carry mid and full size .40 Glocks 95% of the time from sunup until bedtime. Sometimes with a Galco Summer Comfort IWB holster and, when my back acts up, a $10 Glock polymer sport combat holster. I am wearing it now with a Glock 23 in a polo shirt and shorts with the shirt tail out. Without thick, sturdy belts, this would be impossible for me.
An inexpensive holster with a good belt is doable. The opposite, in my experience, is much less so.

Agreed. The only person who can't hit a target at 3 yards after proper training would probably have been Helen Keller!

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Doug

Okay, two week report on my prototype Pocket Holster. I finished modifying the design and have been using it for a couple of weeks. (In case anyone's wondering I'm a retired engineer with shop grime under my fingernails.)

The finished holster looks ugly, like a prototype that's been cut apart and re-sewed / re-glued several times. Functionally though, it is comfortable in my pocket and sits well in most of my "round" bottomed and "square" bottomed pockets without shifting around very much. Bottom line, it works way better than I expected.

I incorporated some of the design features from my purchased Safariland pocket holster and it hides the gun profile almost as well as the pro does. The Safariland is still my best "Concealment" holster in terms of its profile in my pocket; but it is narrow so it shifts around in my wider pockets. It also sits up too high in my shallower pockets. High enough so someone behind me could see the butt of the grip.

To correct this I designed the prototype to ride lower in my pocket, with a wider shaped "wing" under the grip so it won't shift as much, and the smooth neoprene makes it more comfortable against my leg when I carry it all day in the heat.

However, it has one serious drawback. Like my Desantis it is a bit too thick to conceal well in pants made from thinner, summer fabrics.

The thickness is due to my exploratory construction methods. I ended up with a three layer outer shell that added ~ 10 - 14 mm of thickness (3/8 -1/2") to the holstered guns total thickness.

My 638 in the prototype measures ~ 1 3/4 thick across the cylinder. By comparison holstered in the Safarialand it only measures ~ 1 3/8 thick across the cylinder.

I've got pictures; but don't know how to attach them to posts yet.

For Revision 02 I plan to thin everything down by pressure forming the kydex directly to the gun and move the thickest part of the gun away from the front seam of the pocket. The finished Revision 02 holster will have fewer, thinner layers in it.

I'm aiming for comfort and deep cover; so I can carry nearly all the time.

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M638-3, M36, USCCA Member

NOT CALLING YOU OUT! im willing to bet this is not so true. should have said...many sheriff and state police ADMIN. opposed it... ya they are all political appointees and not to be trusted. more concerned with position and prestige than whats right. if they think it will be such a problem then give some of their OFF time and give FREE cc ed. anyone want to bet if that happens.

While I appreciate the sentiment (half of it, anyway), there are a couple things you should know:

(1) Instructors need insurance, covering both their advice and liability if firearms are to be handled.

(2) A private citizen isn't necessarily well-served by an LEO or military trainer. Law enforcement and armed service training is very narrow in scope: things must be done one particular way, with one particular weapon--because that's the way the trainee is paid to do them. Whereas a trainer for private citizens must be capable of training people to use many different weapons (revolvers, SA autos, DA/SA autos), and many different styles of carry. They must be capable of accepting and working around the limitations of the trainee, and of leading them, rather than directing them, to the correct answers. Some are capable of these things, others are not.

Whenever I RSO a CCW qualification, without fail, one of these people shows up.

They have a brand-new Black Talon Blastomatic Ninja 9000. There is not a single wear mark on the gun. Most often, the gun is bone-dry. In some cases, you can still see the ugly grease it left the factory with. Or they have a high-dollar collectible, like a Colt Python (not kidding).

They have not the slightest notion of how to manipulate the pistol. Forget cleanly and efficiently clearing jams, in some cases, they have been unable to operate the safety without looking and using two hands. In several, they have been unable to operate the safety, period.

When they operate the pistol, they do so gingerly. I've seen guys intentionally ride the slide, slowly closing it, and then use their thumbs to push the slide closed the last fraction of an inch. In fact, I just remarked today that it's a testament to how far semiautomatic pistols have come, that today you can purchase one, and use it so inexpertly right out of the box, and the damned thing will still work more often than not.

Many, many people think that dollars buy quality. They do not. An expensive, customized, hand-tuned handgun, no matter what the type, is a lovely thing, and a joy to use. But that's all it is--a nice thing to touch and use, but in practical terms, no better than anything else. And it's substantially worse worse if you have even the slightest worry over scratching or wearing it.

I have no idea who first uttered the C vs C statement, nor how many people say it occasionally. But it was Clint Smith who elevated it to a mantra.

Comforting means BOTH a serious calibre and effective loading thereof, AND capable of accurate rapid fire. Comfortable means reasonably comfortable, not causing excessive discomfort after a full day. Does NOT mean so effortless to carry that you can't tell its there.

And for 90 % plus of people without disability or freakish physic. Anything up to a full size 1911 or 4in service sized revolver can be carried per se , reasonably comfortably. The objections are primarily in regards to dressing around the gun. Yes , in xyz local, its a zillion degrees with humidity. So you wear shorts and an Hawaiian or guyaberra, or a loose short sleeve work or western shirt. In general being armed with a substantial pistol you will be dressd one ztep more casual or one step dressier, but you can still blend in and not stand out noticably.

Ok,.38 +P can be a middling serious load, but a Jframe-ish gun isn't a comforting platform, sorry. I know, back in the day , when I maintained a serious practice schedule, I could shoot an Airweight J suprisingly well, but the usual proportions still applied, and I could shoot 2.75 Speed Six twice as well.

"Comforting" is an -opinion- based upon your feelings on handgun 'stopping power' (whatever that is), your personal threat assessment and your willingness to change your lifestyle to accommodate the first two.
So of course there will be differences.

After reading all of these posts, You are right on to it!
I go back to my marine days and in the manual> "The spirit of the bayonet is the will to meet and destroy your enemy in hand to hand combat"
And, I recall the hours of practice. The "practice" was very similar to swordsmanship!
I'm with you! > This may sound rough to some___ Anyone who packs should have the WiLL to use what they're carrying.
Again___liked your post.
Semper Fi
Poli Viejo

Speak for yourself. While I can't shoot a J quite as well as I can a K-38 Masterpiece single-action and one-handed, with two and a double-handed pull, the two are otherwise identical. Fist-sized groups at 50 feet. And I'm maybe a little faster with the J.

They're really not tough guns to shoot at all, they just take a different grip, and maybe a different set of grips (I can't stand Magnas).

I have personally observed a meaningful number of the same people qualifying ( or attempting to) with both small frame snubs and full size 4in. ( 50rd, 3-15yds, including from the leather and medium-ish time frames for such context upon a B-27.) The rule of thumb of double the group ( pattern?) size was consistant.

Yes, with grips that fit, proper technique, and enough practice ( both initial skill building and frequent maintaince practice) , The "half as good" can be useful for COM out to distances for some SD scenarios. But for me ; 2in K Frames or 2.75in Speed. Sixes with concealment grips are only slightly more bulky than J's with oversize grips ( I said bulk, not weight) J's were BUGs for me.

---------------------------------
Here in Massachusetts the law is "don't ever mention having a gun to warn an attacker off and don't draw unless you are committed to shoot."

Seems that our lawmakers wanted to outlaw any "brandishing" of a firearm to scare someone. So the practical application is "if you draw you're committed to shooting."

Need to get it settled in your own heart well before hand what level of threat is sufficient to justify using deadly force.

I can't speak to the wisdom of that law, but for me that is the law I'm under. Though now that I think of it, that is what my Dad taught me many years ago.

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M638-3, M36, USCCA Member

NAA Black Widow (.22 mag) - $240. Cheap holster - $15. Done.

I carry Two J-Frames daily. One in my Left Front Pocket. And One AIWB. Both are comfortable for all day carry what turns out to be over 16 hours a day. With the Two J-Frames and Two speed loaders I feel pretty comfortable and safe.

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Two Handguns every day

Now, given I am a huge fan of comfort and often carry a 22 mag pocket gun I do at times carry a double stack 45 in Florida in the heat.

I wear a compression T-shirt as an inner layer with an untucked cotton T or polo over it. I use an IWB at 5:00 tucked into shorts that have a belt.

It is comfortable and I don't find the thin extra underlayer adds anything to the heat.

Good thread. This kinda reminds me of discussions on how much ammo is enough. When I start thinking about it, how likely am I to survive any circumstance where I'd need hundreds or thousands of rounds? Same thing with my carry gun. If circumstances require me to reload once or twice, I'd say my survival chances are pretty grim.

So what do I do? I practice with what I carry. I always have my carry with me. And I try to pay enough attention to what is going on around me to avoid being in situations that put my butt at risk.

What to carry is a personal decision. I can buy the J frame argument or the hi cap auto with extra mags. Personally, I AIWB carry a compact 9mm auto. Usually without any extra magazines. So far, it works for me.

[quote]
Oh, brother ain't it the truth....Just having a guitar does not make one a musician,
anymore than having a personal defense firearm make one truly armed and able.


It's all in your skills and without practice, skills deteriorate....



.

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

Carry my LCP in my jean shorts pocket inside clip holster to top of pocket inside, tee shirt covers grip real well and I don't know it's there. Carry spare mag opposite pocket!
My summer carry!

Do you have a link to a source for something like the shirts you describe? I live in Southwest Florida and I'm always looking for concealment options.

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USS Brewton FF1086
SWCA#3597

I have to agree about the gun belt. I have a dedicated .25 thick 1.5 wide also and it makes a big difference in support and comfort with IWB and OWB holsters. Thats where one needs to start in my opinion. then start that long search for the right holters.... I have a few.. well a lot...lol But my favorite is my Alien Gear IWB with my Ruger LC9s.

Due to advancing years and the fact that I wear a 4 inch L frame on a duty belt with all the other, ah, equipment I have to carry during the day, when I get off work, I carry a 2" round butt Model 12-2 in an old Bucheimer Concealer on a good belt and my backup Model 642-2 in a Don Hume JIT Slide on the off-side or in a pocket holster. I'm very comfortable with a Hawaiian shirt or vest over a tucked-in T-shirt. (Retired after 20 years in the Army, I have to wear a T-shirt!)

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CPT, Armor (Ret)
Luke 22:36

I think that when he wrote that concealed carry was more difficult to do. Few states were 'shall issue' and most required some immediate 'need' that you had to demonstrate before they would issue a concealed license or permit. Concealed in those days meant undetectable, and undetectable isn't comfortable.

Today, with almost all the states being 'shall issue' and without 'need' requirements, as well as recognizing open carry, most people (police officers included) aren't going into a tizzy over the sight of a poorly concealed handgun. In Washington our courts declared that a police officer cannot stop someone and demand to see their CPL merely because the officer or someone else observed a poorly concealed pistol (the rationale being that concealed carry pistols are legal, and thus insufficient grounds to conduct a Terry Stop). Concealed means what the word means; obscured from view. Comfort and concealment are no longer mutually exclusive.

Which is all to say that yes, you can have both....now. If you wanted to conceal under a tight white t-shirt beneath which the gun can be easily discerned (not sure why you would), you're still legal. Given this liberty, if one is carrying uncomfortably it is by choice and due to their own insecurities. They'll blame it on things like "the law says..." or "I prefer to surprise the bad guy" or other similar nonsense, but in the end in most states it isn't necessary or even desirable to carry with deep concealment in most situations.

EDIT to add: I'm 5'8" and medium build. My EDC is a 1076, 1911, Sig P229, or Sig P320 OWB as comfortably as one could, and concealed as much as is necessary. I don't carry a .380 or other tiny gun because I don't believe they are suitable for much other than bad-breath distances, and I don't want to be prepared for only that scenario.

Well, I think you're on the right track. It wasn't what "concealed" meant, it had more to do with the weapons of the day. Modern firearms are smaller, more powerful, and more reliable than ever. Ammunition is more effective than it's ever been.

The last 2 home invasions in my area consisted of multiple perps kicking in the door and beating or shooting the occupant and robing or stealing items from the home ..

One man was beaten then shot and killed 3-4 perps in that one .. the other happened to a woman where she was threated and beaten and a shot was fired by her head while her 2 small children clinged to her legs they believe there were 3 people in that .. none have been apprehended ..

So those advocating smaller autos and wheel guns would have had to have been mighty good shots and hope they didn't miss and hope that their shots were on target where 1 or at the most 2 shots stopped each of the perps or they would find they were in serious trouble ..

That's why I carry a pistol that carry's 12+1 and that ever present extra magazine of at least that many or even more ..

You can carry a medium size carry auto pistol that holds 12 or more rounds very comfortable .. All you have to do is get a quality holsters ..
Those who say there aren't any haven't tried to find one that fits their build and method of carry !!

Bit of a strawman argument to equate home defense with CCW. Same thing with spot-picking incidents from "where you live" and generalizing across all needs.

Besides, if you think that you're going to shoot down three attackers before they reach you, you are soundly mistaken. Best you can hope for is that your level of awareness and body language convey your level of preparation, and they decide it's not worth it.

5.11 shirts are like this.

5.11 Performance Covert Concealed Carry Shirt | Official Site

Also, over the years I've collected several "snap" button shirts from REI that are durable, lightweight, and affordable. Blackhawk also makes CCW shirts, but I haven't tried them yet.

Sent from my SM-T377V using Tapatalk

The door bar that jams up under the knob and angles down to the floor can significantly slow down a kick-in entry, and costs $15 in most stores. It's foolish not to have one if you don't have or cannot afford a hardened entry door. It may not stop a determined thug, but it will slow them down and let you get your wits and HD gun together.

Attached Images

Untitled.jpg (41.1 KB, 29 views)

This is by far the cheapest security upgrade anyone can do. In fact, it's far more effective than most other front door hardening devices. If you have a solid core door, and have 3" screws in the hinges, a battering ram will just dent the outside. This won't just slow down the "smash and grab" guy, it will stop him.

Further, it won't slow you down at all if you need to get out in a hurry. Just kick the side away from the door and it will fall right out. So, you can use it at night and not be afraid you can't get through the door in the event of a fire.

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Freedom isn't free.

Agreed. A lot of people have lots of fun opinions on what to use in a home defense fight.

Very few consider the ground that fight's going to happen on. Most walk around their houses, eyes shut and ears closed, most of the time with doors unlocked.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I like to carry a big one with a little one.

Whatever works.
20140728_154830 by Slick_Rick77, on Flickr
20160718_074717 by Slick_Rick77, on Flickr

Is that a Benchmade AFCK?
If so, it's the only one I've seen besides mine!
Not very common

I checked out the links and they look interesting; but north of $100 on Amazon, yeah pricey.

I'll keep them in mind if i ever start carrying IWB. Right now I'm looking for the "Perfect" (I know, ain't no such..) pocket carry holster.

I've got a Galco horsehide front pocket holster coming. Almost bought a Barsony concealment pocket holster; but the reviews scared me off. Seems like their quality has gotten inconsistent.

I experimented using Kydex formed so my 638 snaps into it. I may use that to customize my new Galco when it arrives; but it's part of a larger exploration of using Kydex to roll my own holsters.

I haven't found many "good" pocket holsters for my 638, so I'm working on a design to synthesize a Safariland style inner Kydex pocket, thermo-formed for an S&W J-Frame, with a larger/"square-ish" bottomed leather concealment layer; and just enough neoprene against my leg to make it comfortable. I like my Safariland pocket holster; but it's too narrow to work in a lot of my pants and shorts pockets.

You're right about hot weather, it is the most challenging holster weather for Pocket carry too. Come to think of it, I've got some Amphipod runner's pouches that have a good ventilation material against the skin....hmm, may explore that.

thanks for the ideas too.

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M638-3, M36, USCCA Member

I like the idea, but all my doors have glass panels in them or next to them. Like most people out in the country, we built for the view, not defense.

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M638-3, M36, USCCA Member

Semi-auto's are too fiddly for me (hey I never learned to run one in my youth and now I'm old) so I got an Airweight double action J-frame.

If I need to use more than 5 and a stress reload I'll probably be rotated home to God's presence anyhow so I'm not stressin' about it.

The way I've related to semi-auto's, the few times I've used them on the range, I'll get more rounds on the target with my little wheelgun than I'm likely to ever get fired with an auto-loader.

So, I'm working with the tools I have. S&W 638-3 in a pocket; Canister of OC spray clipped into my off hand pocket; NRA-ILA imprint Case Folder in my back pocket; 50 Lumen mini-tach light clipped to another pocket and two Stress reload speed strips in a pouch on my belt on my strong side.

I also frequently carry my Cane Masters cane, which is a better defense inside of two arms length anyway. (I need that for my trick knee sometimes too)

This gives me layered, less than lethal to lethal defense options. In my state if you use lethal force for anything less than a lethal or serious bodily injury threat you're up for murder. If you show a gun that you don't use they get you for assault. Therefore, I think minimum force to stop the threat.

A gang-member buddy of mine, many years ago, told me that if I was ever assaulted by a group (not a hypothetical in his neighborhood), I'd better take down the leader or the biggest one inside of the first minute or I was toast.

I expect that kind of combat psychology still holds true in the criminal element. I don't have to take em all down, only decimate enough of them to prove that I'm not prey. Their inherent cowardice should do the rest.

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M638-3, M36, USCCA Member

Try lapolicegear. ( LA Police Gear) You don't have to be LE or retired LE to purchase. They should have a shirt to your liking.
You'll find prices are great too____for quality items.
Stay Safe
Poli Viejo

My 1911 LTW Commander or Defender in a IWB UBGholster with a good belt . Easy to carry and hide under a T-shirt Iam 6'2" and 280 all I wear are jeans and a T shirt . Cold days a jacket of course. Bennies of being retired I can dress as I want.

I used to carry a Shield and it was quite comfortable but not comforting. Then I went to a MP9 FS and it was extraordinary comforting with 17+1 rounds...I shot the FS like a sniper and felt I was prepared for most situations. Unfortunately it was so uncomfortable digging into my groin when sitting.

I then got my hands on a MP9C...it was perfect. The compact look and felt like a combat pistol with a decent round count of 12+1. It was just as comfortable to carry as my Shield as I'm insensitive to width and weight. With a little practice, I shot the compact as well as my full size. It's now my go to pistol for HD and carry.

EDIT: was thinking about picking up a S&W 1911 to play with but decided against it since it'd be too much of a hassle to maintain with my range addiction...usually only clean pistol after 500 rds.

I agree with the OP on this one.. That Ruger is all you need! Ill be honest i dont really care for that little guy but to each is own. I got this ole bitty that I carry. She is very light and packs a punch! She is surprisingly accurate! The funny thing is this is probably the cheapest pile of garbage in my collection. I thought this thing was going to be an up close smell the bad guys breath gut buster but Creepy McGee is Dead McGee at 10 yards with this thing. In reality thats all these CCWs are for anyway. Placing accurate shots as you scream in terror running away because you AINT the swat team or the A team or James Bond or whatever fantasies that are in peoples head.. A light small gun that you carry everyday is the name of the game in my opinion because believe you me Im not going to walk around like the trench coat mafia with these big pieces of iron strapped to me especially in the hot and humid south that I live in.



She is like that girl next door. Always there for you. Always hangin around the neighborhood. Gives you the best loving but not the prettiest face and a knock out body!

I live in Spokane, less than 10 miles from the WA/ID border.
I'm also a regular on the most active local gun forum.

In the 3 months since they passed constitutional carry I haven't heard of a lot of lawlessness and gunplay erupting over there in Idaho.

So how has it been going? Were the critics and dedicated public servants right about their fears of unfettered concealed carry?