One of the Gurus has said your concealed weapon should not
be comfortable. It should be comforting. I have always thought
why can't it be both?
As an old instructor one of the most frequent questions I get is
what do I recommend?
First, I believe if the gun is small and reasonably light it is more
likely you will have it when you need it.
Second, I believe revolvers have a slight edge in simplicity of
operation and reliability.
Third I believe, as does the NRA, that .38 Spl. (or 9MM) should
be the minimum.
Here are five ensembles that are comfortable and comforting.
Photos below left to right.
1. S&W 642-1 (pre-lock), Delfatti's ASP-DD Inside Waist Band
clip on with reinforced mouth made of shark. Kershaw's Junk
Yard II knife. Cor Bon 110 Gr. JHP.
2. Ruger LCR. FIST's #1K (Kydex) IWB. Very light. Clip will
cling to fabric if not wearing a belt. Knife is a Piranha. Very
sharp. Ammo is Speer 135 Gr. Gold Dots.
3. S&W Model 60 .357 Mag. In Lou Alessi's hard shell talon
holster. Knife is Benchmade's Apparition. Ammo is Remington
Golden Sabers .357 Magnum.
4. Ruger SP101 (My EDC) with Crimson Trace. Holster is
Price Western's #320 Outside Waist Band. Their version of
Chic Gaylord's Speed Scabbard. Knife is a Kalashnikov by
Boker. The Remington Golden Saber .357s again.
5. Colt's Agent. Ken Null's Gibson GBS shearling backed IWB.
The knife is CRKT's Anubis. I use Hornady's Critical Defense
110 Gr. FTX STANDARD PRESSURE ammo in this old timer.

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__________________
In Omnia Paratus

I've found that an uncomfortable holster (and I have more than one) will result in leaving your CCW weapon at home. Holsters tend to be the most uncomfortable in the summer and in warm weather climates. The most comfortable and innovative holster (in my humble opinion) is made by Stealth Gear USA. They are not cheap but worth every penny.
StealthGearUSA Holster Technology Information

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Doug

I have seen that statement credited to Col. Jeff Cooper, and at the time it was made it was probably true. However, with the variety of guns (all sizes and weights) and holsters that have been introduced since that time, there is no reason you can't be BOTH comfortable and comforted while carrying.

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Stay protected my friends.

If it is uncomfortable to carry, I find most I kno will leave it home.

I agree that comfort is a factor. However, there is much to be said for comforting.

The biggest mistake made by those new to concealed carry, is buying a gun that's too small. Nothing wrong with small guns, but can you shoot it well enough? If you can't use the gun effectively, what's the point? I've watched many miss the entire target from 3 yards. Do you want people with this level of skill carrying a gun? How is the gun comforting if you can't hit anything with it?

The second mistake is not practicing. They think, "I've got a gun so, I'm safe." Believe it or not, I know lots of people who've only ever fired their gun at the mandated training class. Sad really.

__________________
Freedom isn't free.

The Gurus like Clint Smith who say that probably say it in reference to the difference between a psychological stop and a physical stop. To them, a comforting gun is one that they can do a physical stop under stress with if necessary. That usually means at least a mid size gun in a service caliber.

If there are many who miss the entire target from 3 yards I would wonder
where they got their training. If they didn't have any training, that may be the problem. If they had training they need to get it again with a better instructor. From 3 yards my students all put most of their shots into a 9" paper plate after I have drilled them on the flash sight picture. The often repeated line that small guns are difficult to shoot is myth.
Again it is a matter of training. Without training any gun is difficult to
shoot.

__________________
In Omnia Paratus

From three yards you may as well touch the muzzle to the target. At least what it always seemed like to me, comin' from the 25-yard line and BE and such

I only got a 5 yard line at my club, so's I just learned to no-sight it at that range. Ain't hard with a heavy enough barrel--just make like you're underhanding the barrel at the target, stop it, and let inertia straighten the whole mess out. Do believe I can keep it on a 9" plate like that.

---

Anyways, that advice about big ol' carry guns and giant cartridges came from a whole different time.

Back then, teensy guns just wouldn't shoot! And teensy little bullets had terrible terminal performance.

Nowadays, you can just--get this--go to the store and buy a pocket automatic, and expect it shoot out of the box. Meanwhile, police departments are switching from the .45 ACP to the .40 S&W to the 9mm Para because they're finding the little bullets are more effective.

Hell, seen a feller return a pretty little Colt Mustang to the store one day, said it stovepiped with this one brand of garbage ammo. The unmitigated gall.

Stoppin' power ain't achieved with the size of the hole you make. Look at a .45 and a .40 and a 9 top-down--ain't a lotta difference.

Stoppin' power is achieved by where you make those holes, and how many of them you make.

Now, I ain't sayin' you gotta aim for the thorassic aorta or anything--center mass is center mass because there's a whole big mess of important stuff located thereabouts.

My take on it is that a J-frame 38 or J-Magnum frame .357 is hard to beat for comfort with either a 2.125" or 3" barrel.

The overall "box" dimensions are misleading as the overall volume is quite small compared to a similar maximum dimensioned semi-auto pistol.

In a proper IWB holster a J-frame basically disappears and is comfortable to wear all day long.

----

I am less enamored with standard pressure .38 Special performance however and I am not aware of any standard pressure .38 Special load that will meet the FBI's penetration and expansion standards, particularly in the heavy clothing tests.

In contrast, I am aware of several .380 ACP loads (all based on the 90 gr XTP at 1000-1050 fps in a 3.5" to 3.9" barrel) that will meet the FBI standards. Those same loads will also come darn close in a 2.75" barrel, at around 975 fps, doing very well in bare gelatin, but only expanding about 50% of the time in the heavy clothing test.

In that regard, I'm more inclined to shoot a .380 ACP with a 90 gr XTP than I am a standard pressure .38.

That's where a .38 +P load is valuable. It adds enough velocity to give a short barred revolver the same performance as a standard pressure .38 in a 4" service revolver.

That said, I'm a big fan of the 3" Model 60 with a moderately warm loaded 125 gr hollow point at 1250 fps. It's a couple hundred fps past .38 +P performance, but still controllable and reasonably comfortable to shoot with decent grips.

Here's something that, given recent events, I think needs to factor into a considered carry choice: capacity and reload speed.

A 5-shot revolver is IDEAL for arms-length confrontations with single armed aggressor. It is NOT, however, ideal for having to engage single or multiple terrorists armed with long guns who will not break off the attack after being met with force, but will stick around and engage YOUR return fire.

I LOVE wheelguns. But the fact remains, armed encounters these days seem to hold the possibility of multiple assailants armed with hi-cap pistols or long guns, and who will engage you once you return fire. A 5 or even 6 or 7 shot revolver is not longer ideal.

I personally think a commander sized 1911 is a MINIMUM for being considered prepared. A single stack 9mm will also work, with 8+1 and a quicker reload.

This is a newer reality---carry the wheelguns, but as a back up to the auto loader.

Just my two cents.

I'm 5'10" and if I'm under 190# my weapon is right comfy. Over 195# and I can't hardly sit and when I do, I pop the gun out and on the table. Within reach, of course. Joe

__________________
Wisdom chases me; I'm faster

G26 in a good leather OWB holster (I prefer Mitch Rosen) is about as comfortable as you can get.

I feel ya, but don't sell the .38 Spl short. It was a standard police cartridge for a long time. Try comparing 9mm PF to even standard pressure .38 Spl--they're virtually the same. I do believe that with a properly-constructed bullet matched to its velocity, it's quite effective.

Single or multiple terrorists armed with long guns?

Me, I'd forgo the sidearm altogether. Gon' need some backup. Full fire team, figure three carbines, at least one with an undermount -203. Toss on a DM with an M14EBR or the like, plus an M249, depending on where exactly we're havin' this shindig. Indoors, a shotgun would replace the EBR. Couple frags, some flashbangs, some smoke. Breaching charges.

Air support wouldn't go unwelcome, Apaches or Little Birds or UH-60s. Even a Kiowa Scout or an A-10. And artillery, if I can get it. Maybe some light armor, an APC or an MRAP or somethin'. Although I always thought Bradley's were neat. Gold standard would be an AC-130, possibly the absolute coolest thing men have ever built, artillery and air support and battlefield overview all in one.

Point I'm a-makin' is, it's a handgun. There are limitations. There are fights that, unless you fall into the sworn-duty category, aren't worth taking. There are fights that you cannot be prepared for.

Carrying a different pistol because it's better for a fight you shouldn't be taking...I can't agree with. And I do believe that the five-shot snubbie is a superior choice for a lot of CCW needs, but that's just my opinion.

Very respectfully:

while it's an exceedingly rare occurrence, we are more likely now than we were 30-40 years ago, to HAVE to engage multiple armed attackers armed with long guns. A concert in a local park, a parade, a movie theater, even the mall: if a terrorist or two starts with the jihad thing with the clack clack of the AK's, and me and my two year old and wife are stuck in that mess, deciding whether this fight is worth it or not will come down to whether I want to watch my family die or have a chance at fighting back.

If that dark day ever comes, I want my Beretta 92 with my 20 round magazine over my Stainless J-frame and a speed strip.

It's not about 'leaving this to the LEO' type of fight, because they are bringing that fight to us, the citizens. I can't lug a long gun around, so that's not an option. But of the options we have, we can choose 9-20 rounds with a fast reload, or 5 rounds with a slow reload. I know which one I'd like. Granted, all handguns have limitations. But some handguns are more limited than others.

And there are fights we can't be prepared for; but this is no reason not to reasonably prepare for a larger set of fights by having a pistol with better capacity. Carrying a 5-shot J-frame is better than nothing. A Commander 1911 is better than a revolver, and a hi-cap wondernine is still better than that. Know the limitations of all these choices, because there are real limitations to the 5-shooter. That's all I'm saying here.

Just my two cents, with all respect due.

Rastoff isn't talking about training. He's talking about people buying the gun and assuming that's all it takes. Never practicing and not understanding that a too small a gun is actually harder to shoot accurately. And when they do seek an instructor they see that they can't hit a target from 3 yards away.

In my state you don't need training to buy or carry a gun. You need to pass a background check and have the $50 or so for the permit. I know many people who do this without ever going to the range......my family members and friends included. It's scarry watching them at the range knowing that if they have to use their gun in self defense what may happen.

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It was the police standard and got the job done for years - but that was in a 4" barrel.

The FBI adopted a +P load even for their 4" revolvers and, they used it in their 3" Model 13s for a reason.

The standard pressure 38 just isn't in the same class in a short barrel as it is in a 4" barrel, which is an important consideration in a snub nose concealed carry revolver.

I agree, and I'm going to go with the historical data on this.

The numbers are pretty clear. In 95% of self defense shoots, the gunfight is over and done with in 5 seconds or less, with five rounds or less fired at 5 yards or less.

The FBI data supports this as well as they looked at 12 years of data on agent involved shoots and found that 75% of the shoots involved 3 shots or less at 3 yards or less.

The take away from this data is that unless you're doing no knock raid on crack houses, you really don't need to be carrying a semi-auto pistol with three 15 round magazines. (And if you are doing no knock raids, you really want a carbine instead anyway).

---

The mistake way too many concealed carry permit hold make is looking at LEO trends and then deciding that's what they need for self defense.

The problem is that LEOs are paid to go into dark and scary places looking for trouble, and in that role the potential of encountering scenarios where multiple magazine may be needed is much higher - but still not common.

An armed citizen should be using good SA to avoid dark and scary places in order to avoid the need to ever need to use your handgun in self defense.

As the data indicates, armed citizen shoots are a very rare occurrence in the first place, and the need for more than 5 rounds is an even rarer occurrence on top of an already rare occurrence.

Consequently, it doesn't make sense to carry a large frame automatic and 46 rounds of ammunition when a small handgun and 5 rounds will do the job. We need to remember that there is no free lunch here, and carrying a large frame automatic and spare magazine(s) results in and EDC that is:

- much heavier;
- much less comfortable to carry;
- much harder conceal effectively;
- more likely to get left home; and
- more likely to not be worn in the home from the time you get up until the time you go to bed.

Consequently, the minimal potential benefit to all those excess rounds (over 5) are more than offset by the increased risks posed by leaving your handgun at home on a quick trip to the local stab and grab for some Ben and Jerrys, or the risks imposed by a door kicking home invasion while you're watching TV with your weapon across the room.

I agree with your later comments that this is not an LEO fight. The Orlando shooting once again clearly makes the point that when seconds count the police are minutes away - and the SWAT teams is hours away from a dynamic entry.

However, short of carrying an M4gery, you are just not going to be well equipped to deal with multiple shooters in the proverbial all ninja wet dream "multiple terrorists in the mall" scenario - which by the way hasn't happened yet.

Even mass shootings with multiple shooters anywhere is very rare occurrence. Once again looking at FBI data there were 160 active shooter incidents 2000-2013 and only 2 of them involved multiple shooters. One was a drive by shooting and the other occurred at a house party. (The DC snipers are excluded as while both were present, only 1 individual shot at any given incident).

Ideally, the best outcome in a multiple shooter scenario is to have multiple armed citizens able to engage the shooters - and I'd much rather have 2 or 3 armed citizens in the room with a J-frames or single stack compact .380s or 9mms than I would a single armed citizen with a Beretta 92 with a 20 round magazine.

Against multiple shooters with carbines, a single armed citizen (or LEO for that matter isn't going to live long enough to eliminate the threat, particularly if he's printing enough to get noticed before the shooting even starts.

Respectfully,

I never argued, or implied, that one would be 'well equipped', to deal with terrorists with a hi-cap pistol. That wasn't my point, nor my conclusion. All I suggested was that I'd be *better* prepared with 9-20 rounds on tap than I would be with only 5.

Of course it would be more ideal to have a bunch of compatriots with me; but that's about as unreasonable as lugging a long gun. What I can control and fit comfortably into my life is a higher capacity handgun.

One situation that would illustrate this would be a terrorist type situation, where the attacker won't simply run away once they get return fire.

We do have plenty of cases where 5 rounds were not enough. Just look at this example of a single terrorist with a butcher knife in Israel recently. The armed citizen who responded seems to unload all his rounds into the terrorist, and the terrorist is still trying to kill him with the butcher knife.
Breaking: Armed Israeli Citizen Stops Terror Attack as First Responder

The inventor of second chance vests, Richard Davis, was himself involved in a defensive situation wherein his 6 shot revolver ran dry and his attackers shot him.

5 rounds *might* do the job, but also realize it might not. 15 rounds might not do it either, but I'd rather have 15 (which I can still comfortably carry) rather than 5. None of this is ideal, but some options are less ideal than others.

5 or so years ago a jihadist kid walked into a mall in Wisconsin I believe, with an SKS and started shooting. Luckily there was an off duty officer who was shopping at the time and took him out.

2 years ago 2 ISIS inspired shooters at a rally in Garland Texas. Taken out by SWAT.

Boston Marathon. They happen to have used bombs but could have been firearms too.

California. 2 shooters San Bernardino.



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Effective July 1 here in Idaho folks over 21 can carry concealed with no
license required. 18 if their Sheriff thinks its ok. God help us.
Some will still recognize that they need some training.

__________________
In Omnia Paratus

Do you really think this will be a problem?

__________________
Freedom isn't free.

Each of us has our own definition of comfort. For some comfort is a high capacity semi auto. For others it's a J frame or mouse gun stuffed in a pocket.

Some believe comfort is a fine leather holster worn on the belt. And others a kydex holster worn IWB.

And to some comfort is a gun on the belt and a long gun in the trunk.

For me comfort is the complete and total package. The gun I can carry concealed and shoot well in an all leather custom made IWB leather holster. But it is also comforting to know that I have the ability, the situational awareness, attitude and mindset, and the willingness to protect myself and loved ones.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

Many of our Sheriffs and Police opposed it. They thought it will
be a problem. I'm all for the 2nd Amendment, but this might be
a little extreme. I guess we will know starting this coming Friday.

__________________
In Omnia Paratus

Handgun bullets don't have stopping power, unless they hit certain small to fairly small parts of the central nervous sysytem. Anywhere else, including "center mass" and all the organs therein, is a crapshoot. People vary in their reactions to being shot there, from instantaneous unconsciousness to no effect at all (at least for several minutes). See Patrick Urey's writings, and others.

Methods of carry and resulting comfort vary greatly from person to person. Certainly pocket carry can often be comfortable, if you're OK with what you can carry in your pocket. In better guns, I have found a 1911 to be one the most comfortable to carry, especially IWB in a Summer Special, even more comfortable than a LW Commander. I do not particularly expect this to be true for others, but it is for me. It is also more comfortable to carry than most revolvers.

What I learn from this is that because body shapes and other factors vary, I can not tell others what they should carry. Rather, they need to investigate for themselves. People who carry usually have a large box or two of holsters that they don't use.

Before Idaho, there are 9 other states who have had constitutional carry. So far, no problems in those states. Vermont has had it for many decades, without any problems.

rest assured, I'd wager that Idaho will be just fine like the other 9 states

I heard the "comforting vs comfortable" statement used my Clint Smith in at least one of his articles. Haven't ever been to Thunder Ranch, but I'm pretty sure he's an advocate of larger frames firearms with relatively proven track records in defensive encounters (he's been a 1911 advocate since I can remember, and S&W made an N-frame .44 Special named after his institution.).

My opinion on the C vs C debate, is that with QUALITY gun leather, you can have both. I carried a full sized M&P 45 in a Milt Sparks Summer Special II for several years, including some 36-hour stints on the job and still maintain it was the most comfortable rig I've ever worn. I've been using some stiuff by Crossbreed lately, and when broken in, it works great. On the other hand, I've had the less expensive stuff, including Blackhawk SERPA, both paddle and belt loop attachments dig into my hip and grind on nerves something awful in a relatively short period of time. Anyone who is serious about carrying a firearm regularly really needs to invest in good gun leather. The good stuff, especially that made by craftsmen who have been around for a long time (i.e. Milt Sparks) is very well designed with both comfort and concealment in mind. To me, it is more comforting to carry a decent sized, reliable handgun that you can shoot in a good holster that keeps it concealed than it is to carry the smallest, lightest pistol you can find that is either not reliable or you cannot manage to handle proficiently.

Something (a ultra concealed .22) is better than nothing (a cell phone), as I suspect the people that were murdered in Orlando when hiding in the bathroom stalls would agree with (and the people in France hiding under tables/behind counters as well). I, for the life of me, cannot believe that if you are truly concerned about CCWing and defending your right to life, that you wouldn't want the most effective tool and be trained in how to use it. With modern pistol design, cartridge design, holster design, and "fashion", there is ZERO argument that a person can't effectively conceal and deploy, at the minimum, a single stack 8 round 9mm at 25 yards. Most people, who WANT TO make the choice to, can carry a double stack, semi-auto, and comfortably conceal it.

One of my friends is currently embarking down the CCW road, and he asks me all of the time about "how do you do that?" (small groups, consistent patterns, conceal/draw/reload, etc.) and I have to keep telling him that I train, practice, and compete regularly and have for the past 20 years. He's only been doing that for two (hey, at least he realized the importance of it, if only 20 years late), but he isn't giving up. It's important enough for him to take classes, join a range, try various pistols, holsters, gear, etc. to find what works for him.

There are plenty of options available to carry an accurate semi-auto comfortably, with spare ammo that is equally as concealable and carryable. This is definitely comfortable AND comforting to me ...

I basically agree with everything that walkin' trails said in post #26, with the caveat that there ARE differences in body shape and you will probably still end up with a few holsters in the large holster box. What is good for one is not necessarily good for another.

Bianchi and Galco both made a LARGE selection of holsters. I find it hard to believe that every holster worked out well for every buyer, although, in fact, both of those makers made ME happy with every one I bought. Mitch Rosen came close. I only own one Kramer, marketed by Dillon, but it is a gem. I have a lot of Summer Specials by Milt Sparks. The service by him and Tony Kanaley have been terrific. That design is THE best for me, when applied to a 1911. For revolvers, I do not get along with it - give me a Galco or DeSantis belt holster. O'Rourkes are just as good, and probably cost less. When nobody was making a holster yet for the oddball 325PD sights, O'Rourke came through. The last holster I bought was for a 1917 reproduction (5.5" 22-4). Lobo came through on that one, which didn't surprise me. I knew that he had holster-making experience, and that he had been a cop. His pancake fit me just great (I already knew it would fit the pistol), and it actually allows that fairly large gun to be carried concealed. Experience counts.

There IS a connection between, on the one hand, the smarts of the designer and the quality level he operates at, and, on the other hand, the likelihood that the holster will work out in practice. Just don't expect it to be 100%, and do the very best you can to pick the right place to bet.

Good luck.

The quote is definitely attributable to Clint Smith.

That might very well be true and I carried a smaller gun, a Beretta 950-BS in .25 ACP for years and years before I switched to a J-frame and OH YES, you can be very comfortable - until you have to shoot it. Not the .25 - that's just a mousegun that goes anywhere and everywhere but I got over it and moved to .38s but J-frames essentially are one shot guns for most people because getting them back on target ain't easy. YMMV. I have this argument routinely.

A 2" K-frame is hardly bigger than a J-frame; some cargo-type pants will even allow for pocket carry of such a gun and I've done it. But you get 20% more fire power than a J-frame, easy second and third shots (accurate ones, for that matter!), and IWB is not very uncomfortable and OWB is definitely not uncomfortable with a snubby K frame.

Sadly, I don't think S&W makes a snubby K frame any longer.

Cover garments don't work well in South Fl during the summer. Shorts and tee shirt.

How would you conceal a double stack 9mm in South Fl during the summer. Avg. temp is 90+ with high humidity. I can just manage to pocket carry a Shield in cargo shorts but a double stack is too thick and heavy. G42 works for dockers.

Please don't use Orlando for this - the club had metal detectors as far as I know - it was a "gun free zone"......sure it was.....

As for this:

I conceal a 6906 IWB wearing slacks and a light vest routinely - and it's 95 degrees in the shade here in North Texas. The issue is not how do you do it in Florida's heat, it's what are you wearing and where are you going - if you're headed anywhere that you would be expected to be dressed at least "business casual" you can hide a smallish double stacked 9mm.

However, if you're outside all day, business casual is simply not going to work in any kind of high heat and humidity, so you lose the larger gun option. Still, with a shirt out I could probably do it but in lightweight clothes I'll stick to my K frame snubbies or maybe even something smaller.

My point is you have to want to. You won't believe me that we have temperatures like that in Seattle, but we do (it's just only for a few days). Regardless of that, the difference between 85 and humid is not much more than 90 and humid - they're both hot and sticky. Plus, I am ALWAYS hot, so figuring out how to comfortably carry a double-stack 9mm has been a priority for me for a long time.

I can, and do, regularly carry my M&Pc in a Keeper's Concealment AIWB with just a light "Hawaiian" (button down) shirt. The Keeper's does an excellent job of concealing M&P FS too - honestly, it's somewhat amazing - but since I have the FS mag as a back up, I have justified I don't "have" to carry the FS pistol too (admittedly, I waver on this and usually opt for the smaller/lighter compact even though the FS is concealed perfectly well). This will work for most casual circumstances (a day at the office, or a night out). I often, because I choose to, make myself hotter by wearing a white t-shirt/tank top under to help reduce holster abrasion. My N82 tactical doesn't require the extra t-shirt, but it will be "hot" against the skin in anything north of 75deg. If you need to dress up (suit and tie), I've used tuckable holsters from Crossbreed, Comp-Tac, and Foxx with great success. Although I don't have one, the Smart Carry would also be an option. If you are wearing pants (hopefully you don't have to in Florida summer) I also have an ankle holster (not the quickest draw but also not horrible) that conceals the M&Pc fine.

If you get to wear shorts all day, then you should be fine with a button up/polo shirt on top. You could buy some "purposeful" concealed carry shirts (they are often a little thicker/sturdier around the waste, have "rip" open snaps/velcro, and colors/designs built in to obscure the shape of a pistol) to aid in concealment, but most button-up shirts and polos are fine for me. With different holster options/angles/designs, a good belt, and the right concealment garment, I can carry a double stack easily.

Again, there are PLENTY of options if you want to make it happen. A slight change in wardrobe with a few holster options is all that is needed. I simply think the "it's hot" or "it's uncomfortable" is a weak excuse if you are truly concerned about your and your family's safety. YMMV.

The more comfortable a holstered weapon is, the more likely one is to carry it constantly. On the same tactical level, the more comfortable a holstered weapon is, the less often you will touch, pull, reposition and telegraph your "concealed weapon". Comfortable carry aides effective concealment and I've spent more than I can remember testing a huge number of popular holsters before finding what I needed. Thankfully, eBay helped dispose of the rejects.

I think OWB is the only comfort for me. I take comfort in knowing I am concealed with IWB, but I cannot stand the intrusion into my hip area. Looks like I'll be buying yet another holster soon, as the IWB is just not working out.

Do you ever get strange looks from the waitress?

__________________
Doug

It can and does get to 100+ here in Texas... cargo shorts and a Hawaiian shirt will conceal even the largest double stack 9mm in an outside the waist band holster. This discussion all depends on need and desire. I have carried full size 1911's, Sig 229 and Glock 17 in comfort as well as comfortably. I currently carry a 19 or 66 snub OWB every day without issues.
As far as if we are confronted with BG's with rifles... well what choice do we have if not fight it out? They will try to kill you anyway. I will fight and not go down without all my brass around my feet... I refuse to live in a state where I am afraid to engage an Orlando type attacker because my 19/66 will not be good enough. I committed myself to use force when I decided to carry a sidearm if and when the need arose.
All the above said, I am really considering returning to my 1911 Commander.... or something else. I sold all but my 1911 to feed my addiction to S&W revolvers. I think a 9mm is marginal at best, my opinion only, but it gives capacity which over comes lethality in a terrorist engagement. You want the BG out of the fight and a 9mm will do that. In this case just stopping the threat is... good enough.

"... the only thing needed for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing"

My (5) shot .38 special 337PD S&W weighs 13.75 oz. loaded and my Kimber Pro Carry .45acp (commander size 4") loaded weighs 34.25 oz. Big difference in weight and comfort.

__________________
Doug

There is. But the other half of comfort is actually shooting it. I have a 1911 and a 642. The 642 is too small for my hands and I feel I need to palm the whole gun to get a good grip. It's grip is way way to small and thin. Shoot .... readjust ..... shoot ..... readjust. A 1911 fits my hand and it's just shoot .... shoot .... shoot ... shoot. Both are good guns bit I would most likely leave the 642 at home because the only reason I'm carrying it is because I may need to depend on it and depending on something that shoots at the speed equivalent of a musket isn't my idea of SD.

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What I take objection to is saying that, "You need to have X, or you're not prepared," where X is a type of gun or a number of rounds.

I think what it really comes down to is awareness, mindset, and proficiency. But that's a whole 'nother thing.

I would also suggest that you're not looking at the upsides of a revolver compared to a semiautomatic. For one thing, the manual of arms is a lot simpler. There's no slide to manipulate, and no safety to leave on. If you suffer a misfire, it's not the end of the world--just keep squeezing the trigger. It's hard--but not impossible--to jam up, and there's no magazine to damage or wear.

Is a semiautomatic faster to reload? Maybe. It still requires two working hands, and it's still easy to fumble. I would submit that it--and this is in no way a jab at pistol fellows--requires less skill and practice to reload effectively.

But even there, the humble J-frame has advantages. For the same bulk and weight of a semiautomatic pistol and two magazines, one can carry two pocket revolvers.

Not that I ever would. If I thought I seriously needed two revolvers to go someplace, I'd have to seriously reconsider going there! Which is a luxury I have, being responsible only to and for myself.

The other thing is--not all of us have access to high-capacity magazines. In my state, for instance, we're limited to 10 officially, and anything over 7 exists in a legal gray area. So there's really not much of a gap between a 7+1 and a 5 or a 6.

There is such a thing as fighting your way out of a bad situation.

Now, you may be in a place where there are no alternative exits, but I never much cared for a tactical poo sandwich like that.

I do not care for a tactical "poo sandwich" either, and unless I, we, are on offense the tactical situation belongs to the attacker... initially. As defensive as we are in carry and practice we just have to bring some toilet paper, in an effective caliber, to help clean up the mess and try to get the upper hand and failing that try to mitigate the carnage as much as possible. That is what, I hope, I will try to do.... I do not plan to fight my way out and leave the sheep behind as long as I have ammo.

I agree with everything you said, EXCEPT: I never claimed, argued, or implied, that you need x or you're not prepared. Go back and read very carefully what I wrote in all previous posts. I never argued or implied that you aren't prepared if you have a 5 shot revolver. So I think we are arguing past one another. Carry the 5-shot J-frame. You are prepared for armed conflict. I carry revolvers, or bottom feeders, and each gun prepares me to varying degrees for various types of situations. That's all.

I'm old and broke and physically limited. I don't go to clubs and avoid large crowds. Haven't been to a large shopping mall in years. I figure these factors somewhat mitigate the odds of my blundering into a band of AK-toting terrorists with RPGs, and may even limit my chances of encountering five heavily-armed gang-bangers.

Sure, it can happen, anywhere and any time, but I'm content to play the percentages.

The way I'm built (oddly) makes IWB or OWB difficult to conceal, no matter how I dress.

I'm comfortable carrying an all-steel J-frame--quicker to recover than an Airweight, and certainly better than "the speed of a musket" (considerable hyperbole there)--in a pocket holster.

It's a personal decision everyone who carries a gun must make for himself. That's mine.

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Oh well, what the hell.

That is 100% my plan--F E And R.

I'm a private citizen, not a sworn LEO or active military or any such thing. So it's a matter of where my ethical duty lies.

Suppose I take one in the neck, and wind up a quadriplegic? Insurance might not cover me, depending on how much public noise I might attract. And even if it does, I'll be a burden to my family for as long as I'm stuck in my now-useless body. I know a guy that quad-ed himself diving into a swimming pool. It ain't pretty.

But--if you're a veteran, your ethical duties might be different. I never studied that in any depth. Didn't make its way into a lot of my textbooks, as you can imagine. Duty to family wasn't approved by my profs, either, but they were a bunch of wrong-headed socialists.

crazyphil,

There are a lot of factors that must be resolved before carrying a gun. I can tell you from years' experience, if a gun ain't comfortable, you might be prone to leaving it behind.

Probably the most comfortable way that I've carried a concealed handgun was inside of an inside jacket pocket. But that won't work in warm weather, and it will delay bringing a gun to battery. I've left that mode of carry behind in my 20's.

I've since bought a dedicated gun belt that's .25" thick and a Galco Avenger holster. An excellent quality dedicated gun belt will make carrying a lot easier. I have two, both .25': thick: a 1.5" wide for urban carry and one that's 1.75 inches wide for wilderness carry.

Visualize massive retaliation, eh. In a perfect world...

However, I'm just an old guy who wants to defend myself and family, if the need arises. That old guy in Maine who was having all his meds stolen by local junkies is more the scenario I'm likely to face. A 38 snubby suits me just fine.

Not to mention that in here in the Northeast it's hard enough to carry an M638 concealed without tripping over hopolophobic laws. Most of the stuff on your wish list... don't think I could figure out how to carry any of it concealed. I assume you were joking for effect.

So, If I ever face that scenario and can't escape, I guess I'll just lay low till they get in range then try to take as many of those Sharia Vigilante's / Nuts with me as I can. Till then I'll be at the range seeing how far downrange I can shoot 8" groups.

A famous writer once said, "There are no dangerous weapons, there are only dangerous men."
Pray for safety; but prepare for war.

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M638-3, M36, USCCA Member

They passed Constitutional Carry in Maine last year. Anyone who is not forbidden to carry a weapon can carry concealed now. People and LEOs had the same concerns.

The net result is that the Training Classes for concealed carry have been maxed out with new students since the new law went into effect. Despite the fact that stupid people can now carry concealed the result is that the vast majority of folks aren't stupid. People want to know how to handle their guns safely even when the law doesn't require it.

I guess we gun guys & gals need to have more faith in the American people to arm themselves responsibly. Leave the toxic skepticism to the Progressive gun-grabbers who want to keep guns out of the hands of everyone except their private body-guards.....(oh did I write that????)

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M638-3, M36, USCCA Member

When I was deciding on what to do for summer carry I was looking at a small revolver for pocket carry. I wanted something that worked in shorts and would be a good self defense gun. The problem with a revolver (for me) was reloading. A speed loader is to bulky for my pockets and I dont think a speed strip would work for me in a bad situation. So I went with a BG 380 in a De Santis pocket holster and Winchester PDX1 95 grain Defender ammo and a second magazine in my pocket, the perfect option for me..

After carrying a concealed weapon daily for more than 4 decades, I finally came to the conclusion that there is really no comfortable way to carry a gun, and looked for the LEAST UNCOMFORTABLE method.

Depending on attire, my EDC is normally a S&W 642, carried in either a square cut Mika's pocket holster or a Mitch Rosen "Duncan’s Ankle" ankle holster.

I wear a suit 5 days/week in every season. Consequently, my focus is on wearing a good belt and an excellent holster made for carrying a service pistol. This allows me to comfortably carry my BHP, any 1911 I own, or my favorite DA/SA pistol, a Beretta 92g. If I'm home and wearing casual clothes, I'll carry a Smith & Wesson M&P BG 380 in an IWB holster with my shirt draped over it.


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