I visited a gun shop/pawn shop in the small town where I live today and was talking to the employees as business was kind of slow. My assumption was that every worker there would be a CCW permit holder. I just got all my paper work and certification submitted last week and was telling them that the turnaround was real close to 90 days as there is a surge in applications. I asked one guy how long his application took and he said he didn't have a CCW as did none of the other guys. NC is an open carry state and that is what they do. None of them said straight out but the feeling I got was they didn't want the government in their business. I can see their point to an extent and even have some friends who have shied away from CC for that reason. Do you guys see this much?

Well, the government's "in their business" anyway, whether they like it or not, for the simple reason that they had to apply for and be issued a Permit to Purchase their handguns. Basically answering the same questions that's on the 4473, which they also have to fill out.

I'm not sure people pay that much attention to it. I just take it for granted that LGS clerks are armed, whether the weapon is visible or not. Plus, there's no real need for a CHL when everyone who's working in the shop is showing a gun on their belt.

In my favorite gun shop, there are two guys I'm positive are trained in the use of their carry guns. I'm not sure of all the others there.

There is a large firearms store that is not to far from my house but in an adjacent county that has probably 6 guys working with customers and 3 cash registers going. They offer CC classes most every Saturday. This of course promotes pistol and ammo sales not to mention accessories. I guess it surprised me that the gun store with no CC employees doesn't take advantage of the opportunity to promote more sales but I guess it works for them.

The idea of keeping big government from nosing into your business sounds like a good idea;...that is unless you have a birth certificate, a social security number, passport; ever filed I R S or state tax forms,or bought a set of tags for an auto.

Any one of those events and a dozen other commonplace things we all do, already tell "Uncle" anything he wishes to know.

Well actually there is one thing being debated hotly in N C that won't require an I D. That would be voting for the "leaders" of this country.

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wanna do right-- not right now

I'm unaware of what paperwork they have, but most of the employees at my LGS are active or retired LEO's.

I agree with the above. They think they are under the radar but that fact is that even if they aren't on the radar now, it doesn't take much for them to put you on the radar.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

If I didn't need a permit to carry a loaded pistol in my car in WA state I probably wouldn't have a permit either. I OC 99+% of the time and don't need a permit for that. Plus the surrounding states I may visit are all OC friendly.

bob

Three years ago, when the enhanced license came into being, I had a
class for all the folks at my favorite LGS. I don't know how an employee
at a gun store could deal with the questions without the education.

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In Omnia Paratus

Some of them don't. Or can't. They're just there to get the gun out of the back and ring up the sale.

Same way car salesman does.

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I've still got it made.

I was told by staff at the largest gun store in America, in Charlotte actually, that they OPEN CARRY in the store to act as a deterrent to any funny business. They carried concealed in store for a while (no permit required on premise), and a robbery was attempted (it failed miserably). The staff realized that it was better to deter crime than to crush it when it happened. So they open carry. No trouble since they resumed open carry years ago.

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I've still got it made.

At my local range I think all the employees open carry. At least the counter people/range people. At the other store I go to every couple of days, no one does that I know of. It never occurred to me to ask.

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John 3:16 .

In KS we have constitutional carry, open or concealed requires no permit. You do have to be legally able to own a firearm, and you can get a concealed carry permit for going out of state to states that are reciprocal with KS. I have a LEOSA permit, for which I must qualify yearly. I have not noticed employees at gun shops carrying, but then there are few small locally owned gun shops around here. Mostly big box stores with a gun department.

People talk about the big G all the time but unless you don't use credit cards, cell phones, gps, or generally live like it's 1899 there is no way avoiding it.

Don't want a CC to keep big G out but fill out paperwork to buy a gun?!?! Buy a gun face to face to keep big G out of your business but spend thousands of dollars on online ammo purchases and pay with a card at the range!?!?!

I'm not saying we should just give in to it all but focusing on the little things while not seeing the big picture doesn't fool anyone

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

MN allows employees to carry, open or concealed, without a permit if it is a condition of employment. You can also carry without the permit to and from work, to and from a range, to and from hunting, and on private property with permission of the owner. This can come as a surprise to cops. In Minneapolis, you may have to call the supervisor in to get the cuffs off and be allowed to stand again.

Some state's concealed carry programs require instructors to
record and maintain an applicant's firearm serial number.

I think that is an issue with some folks, kinda that right to privacy thing.


.

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

I'm also in North Carolina and I think this gun store is the exception rather than the rule. Seems like every gun store employee I've ever talked to has a conceal carry permit. I do notice a lot of them practicing open carry in the store.

I have encountered a couple of gun stores that banned customs from carrying firearms, open or concealed. I don't give them my business.

If they only knew just how little they are in the big picture. The government is always the enemy to some people. I went to the Sturgges rally one year and ever time a tour helicopter flew over there was always someone saying "How the Man was watching them" I knew it was a tour helicopter because I flew my little aircraft to the air port from Denver and I saw the helicopters. Of the four there only one was a police helicopter.

Does it really matter if gun store employees have a concealed carry license? Why should the customers even care?

I go to the gun shop to buy guns, ammo, or whatever. I couldn't care less if the person who sells the stuff to me has a CHL.

Much ado about nothing.

It's not unusual for first time handgun buyers, or new residents from
another state, to ask the LGS counter helper about concealed weapons
license. It's just a little more good customer service, and I personally
enjoy the referrals.

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In Omnia Paratus

You made me rethink my reasoning with your "no correlation" comment. My flawed thinking was that if someone is really into firearms that they would go all the way and want to be a CCW permit holder. I myself have hunted and been around guns since I was 10 years old (38 Years). I own a decent amount of shotguns and a few rifles. Got my first pistol just as soon as I turned 21 and got a valid permit to purchase a pistol. In other words I like guns, shooting and hunting but have never pursued getting my CCW until now, so I guess you can be an enthusiast and not go whole hog. Thanks for your input!

Form over function. That is all . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

The LGS I go to all carry on premise and all have CC permits .. I know many gun owners though that do not and have no desire to get one .. Almost all of them are hunters which might own a 22 pistol and maybe one other pistol .. Those I know who have more then a couple of pistols more often then not have their CC Permits many have several their other is usually a Non resident Florida permit ..

The gunshop I go to most often is always very helpful and polite and seem to know what they are talking about most of the time. I don't really know if any of them have CHLs or not, I never asked. I was a bit surprised the other day when I was in buying some primers and picked up a lb of powder I hadn't used before, I asked the guy behind the counter if he had tried it and he said, " I don't handload, no one here does either". The store has 9 or 10 employees plus the owners so I was a little surprised by that statement. Each to their own I say.

I agree with the wisdom of open carry in a gun store as a deterrent to theft. However that's a separate issue from having a concealed carry permit for use outside the store.

Their "keep the government out of my business" logic is bit flawed, as the state and county government is still involved in firearm purchases, and the ATF is still involved to the same extent.

For example, to purchase a handgun in NC, you'll need to either have a concealed carry permit, or you'll need to go to the Sheriff's office and apply for a permit to purchase a pistol. Getting a purchase permit takes about 5 days in most NC counties - longer if they are busy. So that's a trip to the Sheriff's to apply, and another trip to pick the permit(s) up a few days/week later. It's also a de facto 5 day waiting period.

The permits are good for 5 years, but you can only get 5 at a time and they are $5 each. In NC you also need a permit before you can even look at a handgun in most stores.

I much prefer having a concealed carry permit as it makes a firearms transaction much quicker. No NCIS check is required for long guns or handguns if you have an NC permit, and pistol transactions require no additional permit and no wait. It's nice to walk into the store see a handgun you want, fill out the form and walk out with the handgun 5 minutes after you start the process.

Beyond that point the process is the same. If you buy two guns within a week from the same dealer, the ATF is notified. If you buy a handgun, the sheriff's office is notified. The only difference in the sale is the lack of an NCIS check unique to that purchase (although some stores still do an NCIS check as a matter of one size fits all store policy - and I tend to avoid those stores on general principle).

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The desirability of a concealed carry permit in an open carry state will vary by state and their definition of "concealed" versus "open carry".

NC is fairly liberal in its interpretation of "open carry". For example a handgun can be left on the seat in a car and be considered to be "open carried".

That's not the case in many states. South Dakota for example is a very pro gun state, but it has a much narrower definition of open carry. If you partially conceal a handgun, then it is considered "concealed" This would include having a jacket over the butt of the gun, or carrying a handgun inside a vehicle, even on the seat or on the dash. The fact that it is "inside" the vehicle is enough to qualify it as "concealed" if it is loaded and within reach of the driver. This, along with ease of getting permits and low cost, are all reasons why SD leads the nation in percent of adults with concealed carry permits.

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The fact is that whether it is a state like NC or a state like SD, the statistics indicate that most concealed carry permit holders don't carry concealed handguns on their person. The majority use the permit for the convenience it allows in transporting arms in vehicles (in states like SD) and for the speed and convenience it offers in purchasing a handgun or long gun (no need to worry about the NCIS system being busy on Christmas eve and getting a "delay").

That also however is not universal. VA for example, does not allow a concealed carry permit to substitute for a purchase permit or a NCIS check.

You mentioned South Dakota, several years ago I was driving across South Dakota and had a .357 mag in a holster riding on the dash of my truck, I was pulled over by a State Patrolman, he saw the Smith and asked if it was loaded, I said yes sir it sure is. His reply was" good, be kinda useless otherwise, slow down a little and have a nice day". I have a lot of respect for that officer. And yes, I slowed down a little.

No, you do not. We may have some slightly weird gun laws in this state, but that isn't one of them.

I've been buying handguns in North Carolina for almost fifty years, and never once have I been asked to show any type of permit/license/paperwork before handling/examining a handgun in an LGS.

Ditto for South Carolina and Georgia. Never had a gun shop ask for paperwork before letting me examine a handgun. Never had it happen at gun shows, either.

I'm in gun stores every single week, in North Carolina and in South Carolina. I've never seen a customer being asked to produce any sort of paperwork just to look at a handgun.

I'd be interested in seeing that data, those statistics. Do you have a link to your source for that, especially as pertains directly to North Carolina?

In Louisiana I , as a business owner , can legally carry concealed , inside my home, from my home to my car , in my car from home to office, from my car to my office (I own the office building) and inside my office. All without a permit of any kind.
I was informed of this after an armed robber shot me, in my office during an armed robbery . A police Lieutenant apologized and said I had to protect myself...they couldn't be there to do it for me. And explained all the places I could legally carry a concealed weapon with no permit required. The DA verified this information .
I have been doing the above since April 21 , 2004 and have not been robbed since...or arrested for not having a permit.

So there are places you don't need a permit. Open carry has always been legal in La. I can strap on a gun, carry it unconcealed in all of the above places and walk down the middle of the street if I wanted.

Gary
Baton Rouge, La.

By the time you pay for 16 hours of training, fingerprints and $150 for a permit application in Illinois, you spend at least $500 (not counting lost time at work. I'm self-employed = no paid time off).

That may be beyond the means of many store clerks.

It wouldn't surprise me one bit. Granted I'm not familiar with THOSE states. A local paper in SW PA headlined the % of county residents who had permits. My first thought was, maybe 10% carry outside the house. Here in PA it involves no training and little expense. So I suspect people here get permits who are less likely to be serious about carrying. For many it means not unloading /casing/trunking guns to go to range, etc. I was at Sunday breakfast in a diner after a match. A team member said "I carry all the time. Well, not here......"


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It makes perfect sense for a gun store to prohibit non-employees from carrying firearms in their store. Most gun stores have pre-established security and anti robbery plans and procedures. They don't need an armed unknown 3rd party getting involved/taking action if something should occur while this armed customer is in the store. This could easily result in store employees firing on an otherwise innocent/well intentioned customer if SHTF as a result of a real or perceived criminal event. In addition, allowing armed individuals in the gun store merely creates an opportunity for criminals to pose as customers and filter into the store and then position themselves to get an advantage over the employees. It is better for security if gun store employees don't become accustomed to the sight of customers coming into the store armed.

I've never encountered an LGS that prohibits both open and concealed. The one I frequent does forbid open carry. Liability I suspect.

" . . . . . . to purchase a handgun in NC . . . . . . . you'll need to go to the Sheriff's office and apply for a permit to purchase a pistol."

In Georgia, those kinds of permits are generally issued by wives.

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Georgia On My Mind

Actually, technically it is correct that a person must have either a pistol purchase permit or a CHP to even be handed a gun for examination in a gun shop. Even private purchases are covered by this law, even though it has to be the most widely disregarded law in the state! I have seen in the past, signs in gun shops stating that in order to exmine a handgun, the person must have eiither a CHP or purchase permit. That said, I have never been asked to show either before handling a handgun! Here is the NC statute:

§ 14-415.23.
In North Carolina, it is unlawful for any person, firm, or corporation to sell, give away, transfer, purchase, or receive, at any place in the state, any pistol, unless the purchaser or receiver has first obtained a license or permit to receive such a pistol by the sheriff of the county where the purchaser or receiver resides, or the purchaser or receiver possesses a valid North Carolina issued concealed carry permit.[9] To obtain a permit prior to the transfer of a pistol applies not only to a commercial transaction typically at a sporting goods store but also between private individuals or companies throughout North Carolina.[9]

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Old paratrooper in NC

Hmm, doesn't make perfect sense to me. Though it sounds very similar to arguments I've heard on why we shouldn't be allowed to have and carry firearms (i.e. the police will protect us, or they'll confuse us with the bad guy, etc.). A criminal doesn't care about the law or rules, they'll just carry a gun in their waistband or pocket. Unless the gun store employees are going to tag along with me from aisle to aisle, and put me ahead of their own safety, I don't see how they are going to protect me. And I didn't get an armed escort as I walked from my local gun store to the back of the parking lot where my truck was with a large box that said Smith & Wesson on it. The only real difference between a gun store and any other store is that there are likely to be armed employees. They're armed for THEIR safety, not mine. If the only gun store in town banned guns, then I might be hard up and give them my business. As it is, there's plenty of competition from other stores that I don't need to give my business to a gun store that wants to disarm me.

For the record, I don't plan on drawing my firearm to protect the material goods of a store, gun or otherwise, so they won't confuse me for the bad guy. My gun it to protect MY well being, not their profits.

I've seen two in NC, one towards Jacksonville somewhere, and one in Apex. It's been years since I've been to them, so I don't know if that's still their policy.

Why do you feel that you need protection inside a local gun store -- in light of the armed employees? And IF you did find yourself in the middle of a take-over armed robbery of a gun store, why do you think you would be protecting the store material items and their profits. I would be thinking that I better try to save my own life -- not the store's profits. I'm all for citizen CCW, but I believe there's times when one should be able to roll with the desires of a business establishment -- and maybe not always feel the need to be armed. I am in my early 60's, former military, former LEO and have lived in major metropolitan areas as well as some fringe urban areas bordering high crime areas. I have never felt naked or vulnerable if I wasn't armed. Generally, I would make an assessment as to where and when I was traveling and the nature of my travel etc. sometimes I would be strapped, and sometimes I wouldn't be. More often than not however, I'd at most, toss a small .380 in the glove box and that would be it. But going to the grocery store or to get gas or going to a gun store, I seldom if ever would be armed. But of course, that's just me. Other people certainly may see things differently. If I need to go to a rough area, I'll carry -- but I always assess my need to go there. If you happen to live or work in a high crime area, I can understand your desire to CCW all the time. Frankly, I probably would too.

But back to the gun store issue. I used to work at a very busy gun store in the Los Angeles area. We had a plan and we had our pre-designated security stations we would causally meander to, whenever an employee said the alert phrase "do you have a couple of twenties?" We had numerous handguns stashed all over the store behind the counters. We also had two 870's stashed within easy reach. What we didn't expect or anticipate and had never discussed (if something serious went down), was that some innocent CCW customer could also be in the store and was now brandishing a gun. Believe me, if it went asses and elbows and bullets were flying and people were dying, we would have shot ANYONE with a gun in their hands that we did not immediately recognize as a good guy -- essentially, store employees. And that's just the way it was.

And that's probably exactly what your gun store management is thinking. My gun store days were in the early 70's when there was a very real threat of take-over gun store robberies by the likes of the Black Panthers, SLA and Nuestra Familia or maybe just a gang of thugs. Sometimes there was only two employees on duty and we occasionally had highly suspicious individuals enter the store and stay for only a minute or so -- as if they were casing the place. It's a small wonder that we were never hit by a violent criminals -- we were rat-packed a couple of times and rifles were stolen right out from under our noses and we had people ask to see a pistol, and when we handed it to them, they flew out the door to an awaiting car.

Anyway, I understand and respect a gun store's policy if they do not want armed customers on the premises. Such a policy shouldn't offend anyone.

I understand what you’re saying, and the logic you’re using, it’s just that I come to a different conclusion. I carry in my local gun store for the same reason I carry when I’m walking down the street, or at the grocery store, or at a restaurant, or driving to the beach. While the criminal element might be more frequently encountered in the “bad” areas of town, there’s nothing keeping them from showing up in nicer areas, as we see on the news each and every day. I might feel a little bit safer in a gun store with the knowledge that there are fellow gun enthusiasts there, but I know they aren’t armed for MY safety and protection. They are armed for theirs. And when I walked to my truck from my local store with that freshly purchased S&W Sport II, in the big box labeled Smith & Wesson, had some bad guy been waiting for me around the corner, or behind the trash dumpster, none of those store employees would have been nearby.

For the record, my local, and very good gun store does NOT have a policy to disarm their customers. The stores I’ve seen do that are in other areas. And I do respect their policies and rules. I don’t try to sneak in there with my firearm. I just don’t go to those stores.