Please forgive me, I am a well trainedgun owner and get to the range 2 to 3 times a week. Maybe more then most do but MOST of my experience was with hammer fired pistols we carried in the navy. I purchased a striker fired pistol said to be and has proven to be extremely reliable, ive put just under 500 rnds through it with not a single fte/ftf, stovepipes or any other malfunctions. This being said i just purchased a jm custom kydex holster for aiwb and am awaiting its arrival. After researching i found this to be one of the top rated holsters for this type of carry which i prefer. Always using good caution when holstering by checking visually or even adding a fingersweep to ensure holsters empty of obstructions my mind still tricks me to believe that at anytime standing up or sitting down the gun may go off due to its lack of external safety. Im sure this is just a mental thing but my quimestion is, does it happen with these guns or should i just rest assure that my caution in holstering is good and it wont just fire a round into my wedding tackle???

In regards to shooting when trigger is pulled it's a 100% reliable. If something gets into the trigger guard and there's enough pressure to pull the trigger then it will fire. You want a good holster that keeps it shape and doesn't collapse. Of course keep shirt ends and tie strings away from the holster area and you'll be fine. Millions of people carry them iwb, me included and nothing happens.

Now, that was just the general rule. It will depend on your particular gun. Some do have other safeties and some even have decockers to make the first shot more of a double action

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Howdy, Shipmate!

Guns, as you well know, do not go off by themselves. If the striker fired pistol you're using is of high quality I do not think you have to worry about an AD out of nowhere.

That said, most of the handgun ADs that occur in the modern era happen because those modern, tricky triggers are not long, double action triggers, they're almost like single action triggers without safeties on, and people are just negligent and will put their trigger fingers inside the trigger guard when they should not.

If you are certain that your holster is clear then you should have no problem as long as your fingers stay where they belong.

Hope that helps!

All of my striker fired experience is with Glocks.

I've never seen, nor even HEARD of a Glock in proper working order going off without the trigger being pulled.

Bear in mind that a Glock (and most of the other striker fired pistols, except the Springfield XD series) is like the C programming language. it will do whatever you TELL it to, of which it's capable, no matter how stupid that might be.

If you tell C to read or write past the end of the array you're using, it'll cheerfully do it.

If you point your Glock at your foot and pull the trigger, it'll cheerfully shoot you.

1. ALWAYS carry a Glock in a holster that covers the trigger.
2. NEVER try to catch a dropped Glock. Let it fall and pick it up.
3. Stripping a Glock requires you to pull the trigger. ALWAYS ensure that a Glock is COMPLETELY cleared before trying to strip it.

Just too add something. I hate aiwb but that's just me. With a aiwb it's easier to see if anything is in the way, also easier to clear with your second hand. On the other hand you have some serious arteries there and have to be extra careful

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Arik, thanks for your comment. I do definitely take the time to make sure my shirt and all other items near or in reach of my holster are not in the way, no reason to be fast to holster and lose focus. Never let up on safety until in my bed at home. Lol. I guess I just dont think that thousands upon thousands of people carry them every day and you only hear about AD's when the person was not focused and cautious with every aspect of handling thier defensive tool. Just today i practiced defensive cqb drills and each time i took time to visually scan my holster while inserting my sd40 and then looked around 360. I dont see anyone else practicing these safety responses when shooting and i dont go over board super tactical. I just like to train how i fight per say. So thank you for easing my brain a bit with that bit of info

Thanks all, iscs yoda and cmort666 good advice. Im shooting an sd40ve by s&w. Got it for the price and reviews showed a great gun for the price although ill probably be getting a glock 19 in the near future this was just to get me back out on the range in a more timely fashion since getting out of the old marine taxi service lol. No disrespect intended. Loved the navy and had a ton of fun.

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that striker-fired guns are just as safe as other types, but one's margin for error is less. Follow the tips already mentioned and pay attention to what you're doing and you should be fine.

My own preference is for a heavier, longer trigger pull on a self defense gun because of the greater margin for error. When I had a Glock 23 I used the NY1/"-" connector combo that resulted in a trigger pull that was equivalent to the stock weight but with resistance along the full trigger travel.

There was a related thread with some relevant info that might be helpful to you. Here's the link: If Striker Fired Pistols Are Inherrently Less Safe What Makes Them So?

And i agree with you arik, its a bit more nerve wracking carrying aiwb but i like the concealment i get and its centerline to the body which is more natural for me to get to, only issue is getting over the fact that my goodies are there with my phemoral artery. Past that i enjoy it, just thought id see what others thought since it was on my mind. As long as good handling and serious caution is taken i will be fine

I believe striker fired weapons are less forgiving of human error. There were FAR more AD's with the Glock we were authorized to use as opposed to the other 2 authorized weapons, hammer fired SIG 226 and Skith 5946.

I have two striker guns, but they're Rugers with Manual safeties.

Navyvbss, I am confident that you have a safe and well designed gun. However, the important thing is your confidence level.

It sounds like you train frequently, and you have good awareness about your holstering procedures. I think that in a few weeks you will gain a lot of confidence with this pistol. At that point, you will be very confident about holstering and carrying this gun. But until you are fully confident, there is nothing wrong with carrying another gun that you are more familiar with.

I actually think it is good that the new procedures for this gun make you nervous. That shows a healthy respect for pistols and for safety procedures. That focus will serve you well. When you become fully confident with this gun, be sure to maintain focus on the safety procedures you are following now.

Keep fingers and any other items out of the inside of the trigger guard and all is well.

Randy

I was always told there is no such thing as an AD. They are all NDs.

These pistols are associated with more AD's than any other. ( To some extent, because they predominate since they are inexpensive.)

These largely result from folks reholstering with the trigger finger in the trigger guard.

Every year I learn of some cop shooing himself in the rear as a result.

I also know of LEOs that shot themselves by grabbing a loaded pistol and sticking a thumb in the trigger guard when retrieving from short term storage in a secured site.

As is true for all handguns, you need to really understand and practice the manual of arms.

If you can't keep your fingers out of the trigger guard, these aren't for you.

Analize your gun handling practices.

Do you have an ingrained practice of keeping your finger out of the trigger guard except when you're on target and shooting? Not all vets do: the M92 trained vets often are sloppy in this regard

Folks with a basis in 1911's seem less likely to commit this sin.

Cooper taught that your trigger finger should be on the end of the slide release that protrudes from the side of the pistol unless sights are on the target.

Anyone that internalized this practice so it's muscle memory, will do just fine with striker fired guns.

Others, not so much.

As others have said, if you keep your finger off the trigger and are careful not to get anything else in there they are not going to discharge.

As far as reliability I have never had one malfunction in any way whatsoever without using a snap cap.

Do you mean finger-on-the-trigger type ADs?

The Glock has a firing pin block that's not released until the trigger is pulled, as you probably know.

Just curious.

Well, some of us old goats don't trust a striker fire Pistol...
I keep my finger out of the trigger guard till I'm ready to shoot.
I'll CC my M 638 or PPK clone in my front pocket, but would never do that with the wife's 9 mm shield with the safety off.
Yea, wouldn't like to shoot myself at all......
And some of us are set in our ways.
Can't teach an old dog new tricks.

__________________
Only difference Fool/Mule-ears

Yup, the trigger arrangement on my one and only striker-fired pistol makes me more cautious than any revolver or 1911. One hazard that hasn't been mentioned much is clothing getting into the trigger guard during reholstering. There are a few videos of guys getting a "Glock leg" when rseholstering, including a police chief whose jacket drawstring or the little sliding toggle gizmo snagged the trigger.

Exactly.

They won't go off on their own.

The difficulty is folks who haven't developed the discipline to handle their guns appropriately.

This is more common in those who have not trained on 1911's or haven't trained at all.

It's good to be concerned.

Yes. Most of them were during reholstering, usually under stress, and in pulling the trigger to fieldstrip and they either forgot to check the chamber or they got the order wrong and racked the slide before dropping the mag.

Oh God, not this again.

(1) Any modern firearm is safe if you follow its manual of arms.

(2) The only safety device is located between your ears.

(3) #1 and #2 stipulate that you understand holstering, drawing, and re-holstering practices, and that you achieve comfort and familiarity in your gun handling. And that includes how your holster is designed to be used, as well. You can't treat a pocket holster as you would an IWB, or an OWB CCW-type, or a duty/service holster, or a hunting holster. Different gunleather requires different practices.

(4) All actions--DA/SA revolver, SA revolver, SA auto, DA/SA auto, and DAO auto--have their own advantages and drawbacks.

Reminds me of when I first moved from working out of a range bag and started sticking a handgun into some pieces of old leather.

Wasn't too comfortable, at first, and that made practicing the finer points tricky. But it forced me to ingrain the procedure and the Do/Do-Not's. Took a while to really get down with it, so I had to spend a bit of time dry-firing and practicing.

Consider seeking out quality instruction. It helps! Remember that how you were trained for the Navy doesn't really help you out as a gun-oriented citizen. Government training--be it LEO or armed service--is directed at efficiently taking a large number of people (with varying levels of individual interest in the subject matter), and getting them to achieve competency with one particular set of equipment.

But you're a guy who's interested in being Good At Guns (TM), with your own individual firearm and carry gear. You're not interested just in being competent, you want to be proficient. An hour or two with a decent instructor can work wonders. Watch out for I'm-better-than-you scowls, 5.11 tactical pants, and thigh-holster'd pistols unaccompanied by the back-slung AR's they're meant to accommodate. Look for friendly, smiling chaps who're easy and approachable.

OP your S&W should have a firing pin block that does not allow the firing pin to fall unless the trigger is pulled.

I cannot believe how many people here rely on external safeties. You do realize an external safety can fail causing an AD if you aren't paying attention? An external safety is never an excuse for unsafe pistol handling

Nobody is "relying on a manual safety". It's extra insurance that an ND won't happen. And they DO happen more often with Glocks. Plaxico Burris would not have shot himself if he had a a Shield with the safety on. The mother shot by her 2 year old in Walmart with her Shield would be alive if the weapon had a safety or if it did, it was on. Cause I don't believe a 2 year old disengaged thst safety. The guy who shot himself at a wedding in NYC with a Ruger LC9-S Pro would not have done so if the weapon had a safety and it was on.

Show me one case where having a safety caused an ND. I'll show you 50 where having one prevented an ND. And those are only the ones that make the paper. Nobody calls the police when a shot ISN'T fired. They just breathe a sigh of relief and hopefully learn from their mistake.

And though any mechanical device can fail, just what are the odds? All my semi autos have safeties. In thousands of draws and manipulating the safeties, none have ever "failed".

And manual safety advocates are not saying it is ok to point a weapon at somebody because the safety is on. But the truth of the matter is that most gun owners are either minimally trained, not trained at all, or trained by somebody just as inept as they are. I know I won't shoot at my gun club anymore on weekends, and public gun ranges are out of the question altogether. Too many unsafe people there. I like to shoot in about 2 feet of snow. Ensures I'm the only one there.

• Plaxico Burris would not have shot himself if:
  1. He weren't a moron.
  2. He weren't ILLEGALLY carrying a firearm.
  3. He used a holster.
  4. Not using a holster, he allowed the Glock to fall.
• The woman wouldn't have been shot if she hadn't left a loaded firearm out of her control and within easy reach of a small child.
• Don't know anything about the guy at the wedding. I STRONGLY suspect some combination of the above played a role.

Negligent, careless people will find a way to shoot themselves, and manual safeties don't seem to impede their efforts.

I carry firearms with and without safeties. I don't suffer from the misapprehension that they'll stop me from doing stupid things.

By the way, would a safety have stopped Burris from ILLEGALLY carrying in NYC?

Having an external hammer you can put your thumb on when reholstering has merit to me. Having said that I'm not against someone carrying a striker fired gun; they just need to be aware of the strengths and weaknesses, same as any gun. I PERSONALLY don't want to carry one, once again preferring something with an external hammer. However each person must decide for themselves.

__________________
K & N S&W revolvers

I have four Glocks. All are for defensive purposes. The factory trigger is a little too light for my preferences in a defense weapon and I have the heavier NY trigger spring installed in all of mine. It's still a lighter trigger pull (and shorter) than my S&W revolvers. If I bought a striker-fired S&W, I would honestly likely order it with the heavier trigger option.

I went the other way. I installed 3.5lb. Ghost connectors in my Glock 19 and Glock 22.

I need to be able to hit whoever at whom I'm actually aiming.

I don't have a union backing me to the hilt or a bottomless pit of taxpayer money for judgments and settlements.

In a good shoot, my assailant is SOL. If I miss because I've got a 50lb. trigger and hit somebody else, I'm SOL.

I paid a little extra for all my guns and got the model that doesn't shoot unless the trigger is pulled.

__________________
Stay protected my friends.

Me too.

The ONLY ND I've EVER had was from me PULLING THE TRIGGER... after having CYCLED THE SLIDE on an M1911 WITH AN EMPTY CHAMBER.

If you can't hit what you're aiming at with a typical DA pull, then fine, stick with light triggers. Use what works for you. But comparing a Glock with a NY1 trigger spring or even a decent DA revolver pull to a 50lb pull is ridiculous. I prefer to balance shootability with a little more margin for error.

When I bought my Glock 22, I didn't notice that it had an NY trigger. It was HIDEOUS. I couldn't have a gunsmith get that thing out fast enough.

When I bought my VA Beach Sheriff's Dept. surplus Glock 19 from CDNN, it had some strange combination of parts in it, which while not NEARLY as bad as the NY trigger, was still awful.

Both of those guns have 3.5lb. connectors in them, which I learned to install.

I don't have a problem with normal revolver triggers... after a trigger job to smooth them out. Still it takes a LOT of practice to shoot a revolver effectively in double-action.

The triggers on D/A autos are VERY different from those on EITHER "safe action" (Glock) pistols OR revolvers. I've never seen a D/A auto pull that I could stomach, and simply won't own a D/A auto (other than for collector purposes, or as a belly gun) which can't be carried cocked and locked.

None of my striker fired guns go bang unless I squeeze the trigger, and have gone bang every time I squeezed the trigger. That said, those who believe that they are a danger to themselves and others with a striker fired gun in thier hand.... who am I to argue with their self evaluation, right?

As far as safeties.... I won't carry a gun with a manual safety. Over the years I've seen countless numbers of folks at the range from beginners to well seasoned shooters take aim and squeeze the trigger with the safety engaged. I doubt it gets much better under high stress.

It largely depends upon what you're used to.

The first handgun I bought was an M1911.

The last handgun I bought was an M1911.

There's been a LOT of shooting and carrying of M1911s and Browning Hi Powers in between.

That having been said, I'm just as comfortable carrying my Glock 19, and would never buy a similar gun with a safety.

After ALL these months, I'm almost to the point of sewing on my tuckable IWB for my Citadel 3.5 CS. When it's finished, I'll be switching from the Glock 19 to the Citadel.

One of the reasons I love my PJ Holster. I put my Shield 9mm in it while I am holding it in my left hand. Then I put the holstered gun in my waistband. The trigger is completely covered when inserting in the waistband.

Once the gun is in the PJ Holster I am confident if can't be ND'd and the holster is SO easy to slip into the waistband and clip over the belt.

"Your light trigger is not a status symbol"...
pistol-training.com >> Blog Archive >> A Light Trigger Pull Is Not a Status Symbol

On a defensive handgun, safety and shoot-ability must be balanced properly. I consider myself more of a self-defense exponent rather than a identify as a "gun guy", but can handle and shoot my NY trigger equipped Glocks reasonably well in dynamic shooting drills(shooting on the move, one handed as well as incorporating ECQ methods and skills etc.). I don't see the need for extreme precision marksmanship considering my focus. I rarely venture out past 21 feet in my training and instead devote most of my range time on developing the various close-quarter skills which are what will most likely be needed in the vast majority of civilian defense scenarios.

YMMV

For me, the NY trigger is nothing but a liability with no upside. The killing of Akai Gurley clearly showed that even the currently outrageously heavy NYPD trigger won't stop a negligent discharge if somebody has their finger on the trigger, and if I have my finger on the trigger, it's because I'm squeezing the trigger to shoot somebody.

Accuracy impairing trigger actions never seem to stop the NYPD from having NDs, while causing them to miss... a LOT.

Yep! I've seen that happen to people at the range. Just never happened to me.

None of the guns I have really spent a lot of time with have safeties. My safety is keeping my finger off the trigger until ready to fire and making sure nothing else gets inside the trigger guard.

To this day, almost invariably, I forget the safety when shooting a gun that has one.

Of course that can be trained out but 30 years of a LOT of shooting is much harder to train out than it is to simply buy firearms that act like what I have always shot.

I shoot my revolvers double action except for the one that is straight single action.

"how reliable is a striker fired pistol in reguards to AD's?"

The pistols are extremely reliable, the operators not so much. There is no such thing as an AD. Negligent Discharges (ND's) are the result of careless handling that are no fault of the gun.

It's a matter of training nothing more
Even marginally experienced hunters seem to do just fine...
Soldiers seem to do just fine

Quote:

how reliable is a striker fired pistol in reguards to AD's?

I know that the popular media calls everything an ACCIDENTAL DISCHARGE (AD), but for gun owners, let's set a higher standard.
Just because you did not deliberately set out to shoot the gun inappropriately, that does not automatically make it an ACCIDENT. When a gun owner does something stupid and violates one of the rules of safe gun handling, it is NEGLIGENCE.
Let's set a higher standard and call it what it is, and stop parroting the rhetoric of the anti-gunners.
This deserves to be beaten to death until we all get it right.
See Lee's post above.

I have seen exactly TWO true accidental discharges (the gun fired in normal use due to a failure) in my life, and the both were shotguns. One was a new Krieghoff that fired both barrels on closing, and the other was a semiauto with a broken firing mechanism that went full auto. I heard about, but did not witness, an AR rifle that went full auto due to a broken part.

__________________
Science plus Art

If, tomorrow, I waved my magic wand and made every police officer in the country carry a Sig P226, there would suddenly be a rash of NDs with P226s. Would that cause you to believe that the P226 and all DA/SA pistols are any less safe than they were last week?

That's why you hear about so many NDs with the Glock platform. There are a lot of different models, in circulation with a lot of different agencies and scores of private citizens.

Most shooters are pretty terrible. I happen to think of myself as being Pretty Good At Guns (TM). Why should I, being Pretty Good At Guns (TM), limit myself to their standard?

Most people can't shoot at 7 yards. Should I stop punching paper at 50 feet?

Why? It's your club. You're a member. Speak up! If basic safety rules aren't being observed, then you've got to get involved.

It's incredibly frustrating for club officers when individual members complain about safety violations after the fact, or talk about "I don't go to the range at X time, because people aren't safe", instead of either speaking up at the time or at least making a note of the date and time and reporting violations.

I appreciate all your comments, and for the few that said my navy training was like cattle herding you are right but the training i got in the navy was a bit more extensive then the average navy sailor lol, i can easily say i was trained by the best of the best and it wasnt at a navy base or on a ship lol, mine was a more specified and deliberately indepth training with wespons. So my technique and operational exerience with guns is pretty extensive if not almost expert but it was never with a striker fire pistol. The firing block was something i had heard about but in reading about it more recently i wasnt aure if there were any instances where this internal safety mechanism or feature what have you, fails!. That was the real reason for the question. I am awaee there are at least 2 to 3 internal safeties in most striker fired pistols including the trigger with the paddle or like mine the hinged trigger, and yes our greatest safety is between our ears and keeping our finger off the trigger and straight along the reciever until ready to fire,i just wasnt sure if there were any reports of gear malfunctions. I appreciate all your comments and appreciate all yiur time

I'll bite, what was your job?

I hadn't picked up on your concern regarding the passive safeties, like the firing pin block. I apologize for not addressing that.

I've never heard of or read about a firing pin block failing in such a way that it would cause a gun to fire without pulling the trigger, but I recall reading of rare instances where improper maintenance led to a gun failing to fire when the trigger was pulled. With something like this it comes down to knowing your gun and how to maintain it properly.

I will say this, and I may be the only one here with this opinion. Of the striker-fired guns I'm at least somewhat familiar with, I'd be more likely to carry a Glock because, if I'm not mistaken, the striker is only about 2/3 cocked, with the trigger pull cocking it the rest of the way before firing. Even if the firing pin safety failed, as unlikely as that is, the striker shouldn't have enough energy to fire the chambered round. Some of the other striker-fired guns I've seen are 95+% cocked. I'm not saying I wouldn't carry one of those other guns simply because their strikers have more potential energy, but it would be a consideration for me. This is another reason I like hammer-fired DA guns.

I will add that I'd have no problem carrying a Glock 19, preferably with the NY1/"-" connector combo I like, in a good quality holster. But my preference would be for a DA/DAO/DAK-type trigger.

Again, just my opinion/preference.

Bar none, the second worst DAO trigger I've EVER seen was on a friend of a friend's Beretta 96. The guy was a Cleveland transit cop and it was his duty gun.

You'd pull the trigger and it'd just go on forever, grinding like plate tectonics until it finally went off.

The only worse trigger I've ever seen on a modern gun was a friend's Colt All American 2000. That was ASTONISHINGLY bad. It:

1. was heavier than Rosie O'Donnell.
2. stacked like a Jenga game.
3. was actually SO heavy, you thought the trigger itself would break off before it fired.

I'm out of the DA/DAO game for good. If they can't make it feel like a Model 10 with a trigger job, I'm not interested.

They're not missing because of the heavy triggers. They're missing because real shoot outs are highly stressful situations and you don't have the luxury to obtain a perfect sight picture while bullets are coming back at you. And less than 1/10 of 1% of cops fire their weapons in a year, about 35 shootings out of 35,000 cops.

And I always qualified expert with my NYPD Glock 19. And I never considered it difficult pulling the trigger.

And where do you get the "never seem to stop them from having ND's"? 35,000 cops is gonna produce more ND's then a 40 member department. I read the NY papers online everyday and don't see these ND's you speak of.

Sometimes I think I shouldn't bother; I really shouldn't; and, maybe someday, I'll learn my lesson and remain silent; but, today, and before another great internet gun forum myth gets started, I'm going to point out that,

IT IS POSSIBLE TO, 'STACK' A GLOCK'S STRIKER-FIRED (SO CALLED, 'SAFE-ACTION') TRIGGER MECHANISM - IT IS POSSIBLE!

And I've worked on enough Glock triggers to know. The factory knows, too; and back around 2008-2009 the specs on Glock trigger bars were changed in order to make it more difficult for this to happen.

An undesirable consequence of the lengthened, 'sear tab' and (slightly) increased, 'tab angle' on newer Glock trigger bars is to make it more difficult to get a smoother, lighter trigger on any Glock pistol produced with these longer, and more acute trigger bars. Consequently, the triggers on my older Glock pistols are significantly smoother and have considerably less, 'let-off' than on newer Glocks.

Neither am I the only person to notice this change. At the time, this subject was discussed in depth on GT; and JR Shepard (not me) was the first commentator to point out the recent changes in Glock's redesigned trigger bars.

The point is that it used to be easier to, 'stack' the trigger a pre '08 Glock; AND, depending upon the degree of wear, it's probably still possible to do it, now. (Wouldn't want to bet my life on it not happening, OK!)

THE SAFEST WAY TO RE:HOLSTER ANY STRIKER-FIRED PISTOL IS TO REINTRODUCE THE MUZZLE OF THE PISTOL INTO THE HOLSTER WITH YOUR TRIGGER FINGER STILL (RIGIDLY) EXTENDED AND, IDEALLY, ACROSS THE OUTSIDE OF THE GUARD.

This way, the trigger will be partially protected during the beginning of reinsertion; and there'll be a momentary pause as your outstretched finger touches the top of the holster. Now, you'll be better able to feel if the muzzle is being grabbed, or getting hung up on something that might, ultimately, impinge against the trigger.

(You want to be fast coming out of the holster; but not when you're going back into it! Here, the muzzle acts like a probe. If it hangs up for any reason - even only slightly - you're going to have to stop, glance down, and take a look.)

How about just looking before and during the reholstering process?

They're not hitting more because of them.

It's not a "stress" problem, because other departments don't seem to have the same problems.

Its a LACK OF TRAINING problem and it goes WAY back. I remember reading an article in "Guns" or "American Handgunner" back in the late '70s or early '80s that cited a consultant hired by the NYPD because of the alarming number of bystander shootings they were having. He said a lot of the cops he talked to seemed not to know what the front sight was for.

If you don't teach your people to keep their fingers off of their triggers when they're not shooting people, much less how to shoot accurately, you're going to end up with dead citizens and dead cops. And all of the ludicrously heavy triggers in the world won't change that.