So I have a SD40VE with a TLR-4 GREEN DOT Laser/light that is set up to the distance from wall to wall in my bedroom. Found this works well for me, i have a general distance to base the rest of my house off of so if someones in my kitchen i know its roughly the same distance but i really like the light. How does this relate to concealed you're wondering!? Well i really want to conceal the same setup i have in house but it seemed impossible to conceal it. I finally found a company that will make and does make ccw holsters for my gun and light combo. Im really excited to get this holster because one of the most desired time s to have my gun on me is when walking to my car late at night but this requires light to identify the attacker or robber but finding a system to allow me to do that was a ton of work. But im excited and wated to ask you all what you have found works well for you when concealing in low light situations. Ill post a pic of my setup and then the holster when i get it. Thanks everyone

Attached Images

	20160816_164416.jpg (94.4 KB, 76 views)
	20160816_164535.jpg (51.0 KB, 63 views)
	20160816_164544.jpg (75.4 KB, 60 views)
	20160816_164524.jpg (87.9 KB, 69 views)

I don't believe in having a light which requires me to point a loaded firearm at or even in the general direction of another person.

In cold weather, I carry the LED flashlight I got from the NRA. It's bright and has a crenelated bezel which makes it a handy weapon. It's small enough to fit comfortably in a coat pocket.

Not a set up that I would call ideal for me to carry. But, if it works for you, carry on!

I'm pretty underwhelmed by this set up.

The laser is a problem since it causes you to look at the wrong thing and screws up good sd shooting.

Remember: front sight, front sight.

If you've developed skill presenting your pistol (drawing from the leather, acquiring the sights and shooting quickly)you'll find that the sights line up pretty automatically.

So much so that you can hit very well in the dark: even if you can't actually see your sights, you know where they are. You still focus on the front sight.

If you rely on a laser, you'll never develop that skill.

Mounting a flashlight on a pistol is surplusage.

Worse, it encourages sweeping the neighborhood with your muzzle as you sweep with the light.

If you need a light, the off hand is the place for it.

Finally, anyone that imagines they can draw and fire quickly while switching on all the electronics hasn't timed themselves trying and don't have a good idea what quickly means in a sd situation.

I carry a G22/Surefire X300 or an M&P 9c/TRL-3, both in BlackPoint Tactical hybrid wing OWB scabbards. The BPT rig conceals better than others I've had for carrying with weapons lights, but not perfect. You need a good belt to maximize concealment.

Streamlight 670 lumen flash/strobe in my left light pocket pocket and an 1100 lumen version in my truck.

For the reasons stated above I prefer them separate. I do like the tritium sites though.

I don't use lasers but they have their purposes but I would prefer them in the grip like Crimson Trace if I did.

No way. I have a flashlight. Three cell Mag-Lite or a NovaTac.

__________________
Halfway and one more step

For starters, a laser should be set to coincide with the iron sights at a distance great enough that parallax is not visible. 50 feet would be a minimum. You can fine-tune at the range, but that usually won't be necessary if your sights are okay.

If you set to eliminate parallax at 15 feet or so, you will be off wildly at longer range. If you set at 50+ feet, you will be off only an inch or so at any range.

Flashlights mounted on a pistol take too much room and too much time to activate. Lasers mounted on grips or the trigger guard are often actuated by a button on the grip and your middle finger. They are highly effective for close quarter defense, practice on the range or even correcting your DA technique. Just don't forget to practice with sights only.

You can see and identify a target in light far too dim to see your sights. Green or red, a laser is visible when you need it most. If you need a flashlight to navigate, carry it separately. I have a small Streamlight (200 lumens) which I carry in an open-top, leatherette Safariland holster. It's the best holster I've found - secure, lightweight and silent.

I use the flashlight in my work, every day, several times a day. I would never consider brandishing a firearm just to light my way. Likewise if I get in a jam, the only light the bad guy will see is the laser, at least until the threat is stopped.

I'm fine with lights on guns but I can't conceal one and to be honest I've never even had a need for a flashlight outside of power outages

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

I carry a separate light. It comes in handy for non-SD things too. Streamlight protac 1L-1AAA.

You should carry what your comfortable with, but it seems better to sweep with a flashlight and keep your carry concealed unless needed.

I usually carry a Fexix PD35, or the smaller UltraTac K18.

__________________
Ret. LE, FA Instr, S&W Armorer

In my opinion, I dont think any light or electronic is needed. If I hear a sound, or see a shadow, no matter if its tall or short, I shoot. Reaction its by far the most important issue. Fire first, think later! Also, shoot until you empty your magazine, its better to be sure. Win the encounter, thats the important thing. Later you will have enough time to think what you did.

Seriously (the last paragraph was a joke) I think this instructor (its a serious profesional) can give you a very usefull aproach on how to prepare an fire a gun on light or without light conditions. His name is Paul Harrel, and he is really a great instructor. Here is the link to his instructional video on the subject;

Low Light Shooting, Part One/Techniques. - YouTube

I agree with you guys, its not ideal for 99% of the situations you may need a light for, i do carry an extra light in my coat pocket, but if someone is in my home i wanna be able to identify a weapon, idk about your houses but mine is dark as dark can get, or if im in a parking garage, i wanna see if they really are a threat before pulling a trigger, if someones breaking into my car or they come up and try to jump me or im in a situation where its low light, i dont wanna shoot using the low light and my front sights which is doable, if i pull my gun and i have that laser on and my light on, that is usually enough to deter them from becoming even more of a threat and if they do at least i can see clearly if they have a weapon so i know what im getting into

Also, i dont use the laser, its an added feature and yeah in theory it sounds like a good idea but i use front sight for target aquisition, but if its too dark to see if they have a weapon i am gonna need that light and. I wanna be as accurate as i can be, so giving me back my spare hand is noce to have, or if i need to use it to defend, push back or support etc my spare hand i like being able to use it and not lose my light source. And drawing with the light attached is no dofferent then without it. The T5 custom kydex holster is made for the setup so its not bad at all. Switching on the light took a bit getting the hang of, but like having a safety, it becomes 2nd nature, and not having an exterior safety on mine i only have to worry about getting it on an not the safety and the light. Its a thumb press with either hand its good to go, i have it on before im finished my draw so yeah i enjoy it.

At home a tech light is next to a bedstand and with in easy reach. I use a flashlight every working day and could not imagine not having one in reach. In my training many years ago I was taught the advantages of not holding a light close to your body, to me a weapon light would be a place to draw fire to in an incident.

__________________
Front sight and squeeze

Thats a great point, we trained to extend your arm as far away from you as you could so if they fired it would be away from your body at the light, but if im hitting you with my light or laser and light all i need is a split second to know you have a weapon in hand but before that i should be able to figure out your intentions prior to identifying you so if as soon as i silohette you i can make a decision and youll be disoriented by the light and laser to the eyes. I just personally like it more but still use a secondary in situations that dont call for me needing to decide to shoot or not

For concealed carry, no, I don't use a Weapon Mounted Light. I do like to have one on my "home defense" pistol, though.

I find a WML just too bulky for my preferred method of carry. On the house pistol it is no big deal and I think it is nice to have.

I have played around with lasers some, but I have not really been able to warm up to them. Maybe they work well for some people, but I don't think they are the best solution.

As far as lighting up your target goes, this was discussed ad nauseum in another thread, and I still can't understand peoples loathing for a WML.

It doesn't have to be either a WML or a handheld light - you can carry both, you know. Much the same way I don't use a WML to find my way back to my car in a dark parking lot (that is what the handheld is for), if there is a known threat in front of me (notice "known" is stressed here), the WML is the better tool to use to see what I am shooting at. Notice I din't say to search for or identify a threat, but to illuminate a known threat so I can actually see what I am shooting at - no more, no less.

With a WML you can have both hands on the pistol, or one hand on the pistol and the other free to do other things (open doors, hold a phone, defend yourself), and the light will point where your pistol points.

As for turning the WML on quickly, many manufacturers make remote switches for their lights, so obtaining your normal grip on the pistol will activate the light.

Long story short, both the handheld and the WML have their places, and I prefer the option of having both for defense of my home.

When revolvers ruled in law enforcement we were trained to hold the light in our off hand out and away from the body. The idea was this would not allow the bad guy to shoot at the light and hit you b/c you were right behind the light. I retired in '97 before the advent of small attachable lights on the front of a service auto so I still do things the old way, even though my Glock 17 is set up for a light.

__________________
Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

I expected to be in the minority but I guess I'm not.

I would never attach a light to my EDC gun. I usually carry these weird, old fashioned guns that lights don't attach to anyway (some folks call them wheelguns; technically they're revolvers, but I know that's frightening for most millenials so I'll just say "old fashioned"). But even when I carry a modern pistol with rails (it can happen) I don't attach lights.

Maybe some of you remember the old superstition about not letting three guys use the same match to light a cigarette. That comes from the fact that if you're in combat and strike a match there is plenty of time for the enemy to focus on that match and shoot at it - you know where that bullet will go! Anyway, that's what they told us in Basic Training.

So, to my way of thinking, a light on your weapon basically gives you the same result. First, it makes the weapon an easy target. Second, obviously, there is going to be someone right behind that light!

In the last close quarter combat class I took the instructor held his light in his offhand, high and far away from his gun, body, and head. If I need a light I'd carry a tactical flashlight just like that - and there is always a tactical flashlight nearby, in my house or car. I'm a fanatic about flashlights. But not attached to guns.

I don't have a holster any more for a WML, and I rarely carry a light on my person when I'm carrying a pistol, which is to say I rarely carry a light. I do have a very nice light/laser on my Glock 19, which stays in the nightstand safe most nights. I also have a second Surefire handheld in the same safe, and I grab it along with the pistol/WML to check out bumps in the night. That way I can drop the Surefire to use a hand if I need to and still have a light available.

__________________
Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

I don't carry a weapon mounted light because I mostly carry an LCP, sometimes a 642. But if I carried my Glock with XC1 I would. Plenty of holsters for the Glock with Surefire XC1.

Heres a couple pictures of the XC1 on my G19.

I believe in all the above. A light on the gun, a laser on the gun, a light in my weak hand.
You can use all, some, one or none.
There may be a time when you don't have a weak hand to use a light with.
As far as sweeping with the gun, point it at the ground and 100+ lumens will provide a lot of backsplash light.
Just keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to shoot.
You can be extra safe in an encounter to the point where you get shot.
It depends on what you are defending against sometimes. You may need to do something you normally wouldn't do out of necessity.
That's when your brain and training and trigger finger work together.

Finding the right holster is the hard part:

__________________
Music/Sports/Beer fan

Left handed . . . ?

__________________
Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

No weapon mounted light. A small Olight in pocket.

I do have larger, more powerful Surefire lights but not part of my EDC.

__________________
642-1, M&P15 TS

You can point your flashlight straight up at the ceiling, and it lights up the whole room....just sayin.

__________________
Halfway and one more step

Well i think it goes without saying, if i am pulling my pistol then its because i intend to shoot. If there is a situation where i need a light but there is no known threat i will use my olight if needed. My pistol mounted tlr4 is only if there is a known threat. Again, i know there is a threat but i need to quickly see where i am shooting and give me a better view of the immediate area. I do agree with the use of a flashlight away from the body with your free hand, this still allows you to illuminate your target while unholstering and getting on target but id rather be able to do all the above quickly before they get the upper hand and get off a shot.

I DID however go to the range today and used the laser. Even at the parrallel and converged soghting i wasnt thrilled about using the laser. I do not like to use the laser as a reference for shooting, i would much rather and am more comfortable using my sights/front sight to focus my shot group. Focusing on the laser proved unreliable, even when sighted in i dont like the placement and loss of stability i have when using lasers. I do like the flashlight which i found from the appendix carry position to be quite easy to engage while in the process of unholstering. There was no loss of draw time or control of target aquisition and the added illumination proved to be useful when pulling on target. We simulated a low and very low light condition with random targets setup that i was unaware of, being able to get the big picture quickly and not lose any time with multitasking (pulling a light out of my pocket,, worrying about getting to my light in my pocket, or on my belt, turning on the light and getting it away from my body actually took several precious moments away i may need) and the rail mounted light allowed me to see my target the other threat targets i was unaware of (one holding a woman at knifepoint) and being able to fire precisely and rapidly as well as quickly from draw to engagement was really awesome. This proves to me that i am a light mounted person which may or may not be for you and thats fine too. It really does depend on the situation.

6I do wanna say though that we were taught to keep the light away from the body in the navy and it does fine but in reality the further we get the light from our body if the threat is not looking directly at the light but to the side he will be able to see more of us from the off glow the light gives off. If we put it in front of our body we are now in the shadow the light creates and non of our body will be shown. Down side, they will know where the light is, plus side, they wont know where we are in relation to that light because they wont see our body illuminated by the light. I took a few pics, not the best because it is a mirror and its reflecting the light back at me but it will show you the difference between being behind and being beside the light. You'll notice more of my body will be exposed to light when its beside me making me more visble, when behind the light i almost disappear even when its being reflected back at me. If we take this into account then using the light off our body will in fact show us more to the threat then if we were behind the light. If you take an object place a light beside it and shine it at yourself you will still see the object now place your light in front of it and tell me if you can still see it. I choose the light in front of me. And i understand people have been teaching it off the body for years and years but with lights beig even brighter now days then 10to 20 yrs ago you can get away with placing yourself behind it safely and not get shot as easily as if it were off your side. Trust me i know the teaching and teachers! They are dead set in their ways and dont like change but you have to change because the enemy will never stop changing and learning. Just my opinion

Attached Images

	20160817_173946.jpg (23.3 KB, 26 views)
	2016-08-17 18.19.02.jpg (34.7 KB, 33 views)

And yes i know it was a mirror reflecting back at me which illuminated me a great deal. The idea is, the halo or light bloom from the light doesnt cover you as much when away from the body and your more liable to expose yourself more then if it were directly infront of you covering you in its casted shadow

Decent video with Larry Vickers about light techniques in the home. Pistol starts around 4:30

Its a good video but it makes my point! If your moving through your home, or if your out in a parking garage and know there is a threat the most comfortable hold is the harries position. This brings the light where? RIGHT NEXT TO YOUR GUN, ITS STILL CENTER OF YOUR BODY, or you use cover and poke around the corner. Being able to have my hand free to use as an "if needed" tool to open doors, push someone back or whatever, now i have a light in my hand i was using next to my gun. With the rail mounted light i simply use my thumb and push down for momentary illumination or up for continuous, steady on illumination. BUT the gun mounted light allows me to have a free hand and i can operate my light with my gun hands thumb if needed. I just dont see any pros to hand carrying a light in a situation where you need your hand free but still need illumination. Yes it may be a bit more cumbersome to holster or carry but if you have the right holster like my T5 hitchhiker, you dont have to worry about that. I say the video makes me believe more strongly in using a gun mounted light. All the same features as a hand held light but with more use of a free hand and speed to act

Precisely why I posted it .

Again, I believe a WML can only be an enabler - if the situation calls for it, use it - if it does not, don't. Same for a handheld light. You should have both and use both depending on the situation. There is no perfect answer - you just have to do the best you can with what you have. The WML just gives you another option.

While I use a handheld light for my concealed weapon, I'd consider a WML for a handgun that was dedicated to home defense, as I already have on my shotgun and AR.

(I do have a wrist tether for my Surefire so that I can drop the light and reacquire it quickly if I need the use of my support hand.)

__________________
642-1, M&P15 TS

Quote - Im really excited to get this holster because one of the most desired time s to have my gun on me is when walking to my car late at night but this requires light to identify the attacker or robber but finding a system to allow me to do that was a ton of work

If you use a light on your pistol to identify whether a person is a attacker or a robber and its not .. just someone walking your brandishing a weapon which is against the law ..

You'll know whether its a robber when he tries to rob you not before .. and at that distance you won't need the light it just something to get hung up on your holster .. which could make your draw much slower or not at all ..

I carry a small surefire in my back weak side pocket at night and have a 3 C cell Mag Light on the night stand. I can see the utility of a light for an ID of a potential threat outside, in the house...is another story. If there is an intruder in my home at night I consider that an extreme threat to me and mine and will act accordingly.... meaning I will not take time to ascertain if the perp is armed or not.

I still don't like pointing my weapon at something I do not intend to shoot.
Using my handgun for a flashlight is contrary to my training. (and a lot of other peoples training). Point a gun at me and you might just draw fire.

__________________
Halfway and one more step

All sides have been thoroughly explored. I actually don't like them, but I see why some may find them useful. I would definitely pair one with a handheld, of course.

They're very interesting as a training tool, however. I remember seeing one person at the range with his wife, shooting some polymer 9mm with a green laser. The wife was alright, decent groups at 7 yards and an acceptable spread at 50 feet, despite her husband practically shouting at her to double-tap the lower target and then hit the upper once ("You have to SHOCK THE BODY and then put one in the head!" over and over and over...).

The husband couldn't hit a damn thing. And with the laser, it was exceedingly obvious why. Despite the modest chambering, every time he squeezed the trigger, his point of aim dipped a solid 12"-18" at 7 yards.

Eventually he gave up, berating the "[expletive] gun" for "shooting low", and that he should really replace it with a [insert expensive manufacturer here].

I would have mentioned the problem he was encountering to him, but he seemed rather unteachable, and besides--if you're good at something, never do it for free.

But anyways...a minor post needs clarification.

There are two ways to "zero" a laser, or realistically, any handgun sighting system (although the second is only commonly applied to lasers).

The first is the usual--the point of impact matches the point of aim, at a given distance. In other words, if you picture a line coming out of the bore, and another line from the sight(s), then the two intersect at a given point. The advantage is that it's easier to make a precise shot at the range, but it's more difficult the further away from that point you get. This method is pretty much the only one anyone uses for iron sights and optics.

For lasers, a common alternative is to zero in parallel with the bore. In other words, if your laser is 2" below the centerline of the bore, you adjust the PoA/PoI so that the impact is 2" above the point of aim. If you picture the centerline of the bore projecting outward, and a line projecting from the laser, then the two lines are parallel and never meet. The advantage is that the PoA/PoI relationship isn't affected by distance until bullet drop comes into play (which is well outside common SD distances). It's slightly more difficult to make a truly precision shot at any given range, but range estimation is removed from the equation.

Truth of the matter is that it really doesn't matter a whole ton. At most distances, the difference between the two is much smaller than the best groups your average shooter can produce under the best conditions.

Also, parallax is related to optics like red dots. Simply, every red dot (no matter what the manufacturer tells you) is subject to a small amount of uncertainty. How much it can be off varies with range, and is related to the sight not being precisely in line with your eye. For more:

Encyclopedia of Bullseye Pistol

Well-played, sir, but you failed to refer to it as a "clip", or for maximum points, a "magazine clip". Therefore, I award you two out of three Internets.

I'll echo the sentiment several others have posted above.

I REALLY don't like the idea of a WML because it requires me to point my weapon at something to identify it, and one of the 4 safety rules is to NEVER point your weapon at something you don't intend to destroy. WML's were developed for military or police tactical applications in which it is assumed that there is at least a high likelihood that whatever you are illuminating is also something that you may need to shoot. The application for armed civilians is quite different.

If I hear a bump in the night it is FAR more likely that it was caused by something I do not want or need to point my weapon at. In my CCL class the instructor said that there are 3 levels of "should I use my weapon."

1. Tactical - am I physically/mentally able to use my weapon in SD given the situation
2. Legal - am I legally justified in using my weapon
3. Moral - do I HAVE to use my weapon

IMO, if you point a loaded firearm at a human to use a WML you have already committed to #2 and #3 before you have sufficient information.

I always have a small tactical flashlight on me, and as others have noted its useful for much more than SD or HD. Just like carrying a knife, I never knew how often I needed one until I started carrying one. Plus you can carry a flashlight to places you can't carry a firearm, and it can be used as a SD tool.

It is important to train with the light, there are various opinions on the best way to shoot with a separately held flashlight. I practice at the range shooting one-handed with my light in the other.

One caveat I will add is that a WML certainly makes sense on a long gun as you need both hands to operate it, but that is one of the reasons I chose to not use a long gun as a primary HD tool.

Why not have a WML, and a hand held?

Weapon light is not for me. I hold my pistol in my right hand, with a good flashlight in my left hand, extended to the left, away from my body. "If" the perp shoots toward the light, as a point of aim, hopefully he'll miss me.

Yea, I know, nothing always works as planned , but that's my story, and I'm sticking with it.

ie:

Don't need no light cuz I train!

Attached Images

hqdefault.jpg (34.5 KB, 7 views)

Awesome!