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Old 08-20-2016, 01:28 PM
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Default Massachusetts law enforcement

Question for active or retired Massachusetts law enforcement officers: I recently retired from federal LE and now getting myself set up to start carrying under the provisions of LEOSA. I reside in South Carolina and will occasionally be traveling to MA to see my parents living there. Of course in the past I did not have to worry about type of pistol, nor magazine restrictions. As I read over MA "approved roster", I see that my personal Glock 17 is on the roster. But, I think that I'm going to have to buy 10 round magazines to be legal in MA. Is that correct ? Any ammo restrictions like NJ ? How is the political climate in MA regarding out of state officers carrying under LEOSA ?
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Old 08-21-2016, 09:34 PM
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I'm not and never have been LE, but I can tell you your Glock will not be a problem. The 17-round mags might be. Someone better versed in the LEOSA situation can probably tell you yes or no on the 17-round mags. For the rest of us, it's a felony.
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Old 08-21-2016, 10:55 PM
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Default You're all set.....

Your retired credentials, and LEOSA card are all you need. Politically speaking, the boots-on-the-ground LEO's up here are not interested in jamming you up over what magazine you have. Atty General Maura Healy re-affirmed that LEO's are exempt from provisions of the State AWB and high-capacity mag ban. I'm a LEO and state certified police instructor/LEOSA instructor. PM me if you'd like to

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Old 08-21-2016, 11:31 PM
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Thanks for sharing that info, Smith61.

(I understand that not everyone will be happy with the lack of parity but the information is useful nonetheless.)
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Old 08-22-2016, 07:41 AM
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Default Caution Is Wise

I'm a NYS resident. Even though I can carry under HR 218, I still may not use a high capacity magazine in New York City. Sure, no one would ever know, unless I get into a situation involving firearms.

I also would not chance carrying hollow points in New Jersey.
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Old 08-22-2016, 07:52 AM
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NJ has mag And ammo restrictions. I would check with them beforehand. They are not very friendly towards current out of state/retired/off duty LEO.

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Old 08-22-2016, 08:45 AM
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NJ has maintained that same bad reputation since I first began working for Uncle back in the late 70's and I have no idea how long it was in place beforehand.

I've even heard of altercations between them and fellow brothers in arms in NJ on official business.

Not good and there is no excuse for such.
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Old 08-22-2016, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Squarebutt View Post
I'm not and never have been LE, but I can tell you your Glock will not be a problem. The 17-round mags might be. Someone better versed in the LEOSA situation can probably tell you yes or no on the 17-round mags. For the rest of us, it's a felony.
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Your retired credentials, and LEOSA card are all you need. Politically speaking, the boots-on-the-ground LEO's up here are not interested in jamming you up over what magazine you have. Atty General Maura Healy re-affirmed that LEO's are exempt from provisions of the State AWB and high-capacity mag ban. I'm a LEO and state certified police instructor/LEOSA instructor. PM me if you'd like to
Well, here's an interesting question: The Wikipedia article on LEOSA states that "Persons who are qualified to carry nationwide under LEOSA are not exempt from... state laws regarding magazine capacity limits.

Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On the other hand, MA law states: "The provisions of this {AW/LCFD} section shall not apply to: (i) the possession by a law enforcement officer; or (ii) the possession by an individual who is retired from service with a law enforcement agency and is not otherwise prohibited from receiving such a weapon or feeding device from such agency upon retirement."

So is a retired LEO from another state who holds a LEOSA permit legally able to carry a post-ban hi-cap magazine within Massachusetts? I'm not so sure.

Practically speaking, I get it that no MA LEO is ever going to jam up a retired LEO from another state no matter what, LEOSA or not. I mean... I'm not that naive or stupid.

Conversely, I'm not even sure, given the loose wording of the MA law, whether or not a LEOSA permit is even required of a retired LEO living or traveling within Massachusetts.
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Old 08-22-2016, 10:57 AM
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Default Wikipedia!?!? Please stop!

Mass Law from the horses mouth:
Also please note that for RETIRED guys, they NEED to have their LEOSA card to certify their required annual quals and to meet exemptions.............
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Old 08-22-2016, 04:06 PM
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Smith61: Thanks for the insight. I always plan for the least common denominator; so I'm going to err on the side of getting some 10 round mags, and (gulp), loading 9mm FMJ just to keep the NJ boys in blue off my back. I really love my G17 and I don't want to buy a single stack 9mm just to satisfy some states restrictive magazine limits. Then again, there is the 5-shot Chiefs's Special in the back of my gun safe that should make anybody happy....LOL.
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Old 08-23-2016, 02:46 AM
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Originally Posted by JWM View Post
Smith61: Thanks for the insight. I always plan for the least common denominator; so I'm going to err on the side of getting some 10 round mags, and (gulp), loading 9mm FMJ just to keep the NJ boys in blue off my back. I really love my G17 and I don't want to buy a single stack 9mm just to satisfy some states restrictive magazine limits. Then again, there is the 5-shot Chiefs's Special in the back of my gun safe that should make anybody happy....LOL.
Mag capacity is NJ is 15. Three types of projectiles are NJSP allowed. Hornady Critical Defense, Federal FMJE, and PowRball. I hear you regarding being on the safe side but LEOSA doesn't exempt retiree's from local magazine restrictions. No Copper worth his or her salt should bother you but if you have to become involved it will not be the street Policeman who looks into that sort of thing. Just my thoughts for what they are worth.
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Old 08-24-2016, 10:41 PM
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NJ has ammo restrictions only for retired officers living in NJ. Non-resident active or non-resident retired officers covered by LEOSA can carry hollow points. Retired officers living in NJ cannot carry HP ammo.

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Old 08-30-2016, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badge View Post
Mag capacity is NJ is 15. Three types of projectiles are NJSP allowed. Hornady Critical Defense, Federal FMJE, and PowRball. I hear you regarding being on the safe side but LEOSA doesn't exempt retiree's from local magazine restrictions. No Copper worth his or her salt should bother you but if you have to become involved it will not be the street Policeman who looks into that sort of thing. Just my thoughts for what they are worth.
The bolded part is key here. It's the DA that will be prosecuting.

LEOSA indeed covers ammo (HP-it was a revision to the law), but still does NOT cover mags.

The Mass law quoted above is misleading for retirees and that is a gray area. I've discussed this at length multiple times with the Director of the Firearms Records Bureau and her Legal Counsel. The problem is that it is worded (for retirees) as if a PD gifted the gun/mags to the retired officer. Well ever since the Ethics Commission was formed, it is illegal for gov't to gift anything to a retiree or for a LEO to accept gifts in this state. There have been a few requests (MCOPA I believe and myself to the Senate Chair of the Jt. Committee on Public Safety) to revise the wording to do as it was intended, but no action on this to date.

Sadly MA gun law is my expertise (but IANAL) so I follow this convoluted stuff.
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Old 08-31-2016, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_in_PA View Post
NJ has ammo restrictions only for retired officers living in NJ. Non-resident active or non-resident retired officers covered by LEOSA can carry hollow points. Retired officers living in NJ cannot carry HP ammo.
Steve,

can you source these claims for non resident retirees? I believe you are correct for active officers.

Thanks
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Old 09-01-2016, 10:47 AM
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The following is from an FOP document that I attached.

Code:

Can I carry any type of firearm or ammunition under this law?
No. The exemption provided under this Federal law applies to the carriage of concealed firearms only. The definition of “firearm” in this statute specifically excludes machine guns, silencers, explosives or other destructive devices as these terms are defined in Federal law. However, the Federal law does extend the exemption to allow the carriage of ammunition “not expressly prohibited by Federal law or subject to the provisions of the National Firearms Act.” This means that qualified active and retired law enforcement officers may carry ammunition in States which may have prohibited the possession of certain ammunition by persons not actively
serving in law enforcement within that State.
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Old 09-01-2016, 10:52 AM
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18 U.S. Code SS 926C - Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified retired law enforcement officers | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute

Look in (e)(1)(B) for the ammo exemption under Fed Law.

I'm sure that NJ can do what it pleases (accept Fed Law or fight it) just like MA LEOSA violates some of the Fed Law in its implementation.
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Old 09-01-2016, 11:56 PM
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LenS,

Thank you, one of the sections you provided:

"Can I carry any type of firearm or ammunition under this law?
No...
However, the Federal law does extend the exemption to allow the carriage of ammunition “not expressly prohibited by Federal law or subject to the provisions of the National Firearms Act.”

This means that qualified active and retired law enforcement officers may carry ammunition in States which may have prohibited the possession of certain ammunition by persons not actively serving in law enforcement within that State."

answered my question; I had been misinformed on that point.
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Old 09-03-2016, 08:17 AM
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There is a lot of confusion on LEOSA and it has been a patchwork law, with multiple changes to date. Hoping for another change wrt mag limits and then I think we should be GTG on the issues.
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Old 09-03-2016, 01:20 PM
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State mag limits are not trumped by LEOSA. Since Glock explicitly teaches that reduced capacity mags should not be used for duty, I would not carry them for any serious purposes and in fact do not not own any. If I go someplace with silly capacity restrictions, I take other pistols/revolvers.

State ammo laws are trumped by LEOSA, but NJ continues to try to jam up the retirees and out of state cops. Remember that even if the officers you encounter are not as dumb as that A-H Sgt. at NJSP firearms (who has been quoted by real cops as saying that they do not care about the federal law and will enforce state law), the prosecutor is the one who makes a charging decision. You would eventually prevail, but it would be an expensive mess that would take a while to solve and during that time you would probably be a prohibited possessor under federal law. I would avoid going into NJ unless being paid one heck of a lot, and even then, I'd probably do without the money and just skip it.
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Old 06-29-2017, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by federali View Post
I'm a NYS resident. Even though I can carry under HR 218, I still may not use a high capacity magazine in New York City. Sure, no one would ever know, unless I get into a situation involving firearms.

I also would not chance carrying hollow points in New Jersey.
LEOSA covers ammo that is not federally prohibited. It was amended specifically because of NJs garbage.
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Old 06-29-2017, 09:48 PM
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NJ has mag And ammo restrictions. I would check with them beforehand. They are not very friendly towards current out of state/retired/off duty LEO.

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LEOSA covers ammo that is not federally prohibited. It was amended specifically because of NJs garbage.
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Old 06-29-2017, 09:50 PM
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Mag capacity is NJ is 15. Three types of projectiles are NJSP allowed. Hornady Critical Defense, Federal FMJE, and PowRball. I hear you regarding being on the safe side but LEOSA doesn't exempt retiree's from local magazine restrictions. No Copper worth his or her salt should bother you but if you have to become involved it will not be the street Policeman who looks into that sort of thing. Just my thoughts for what they are worth.
NJ cannot dictate what ammo a LEOSA qualified officer is carrying.
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Old 06-29-2017, 09:52 PM
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LEOSA covers ammo that is not federally prohibited. It was amended specifically because of NJs garbage.
I believe you but I also know NJ. They have a tendency to arrest first and bother with the facts later. Doesn't matter who you are or were.

Just last year they arrested acman who had a 300 year old flintlock pistol in his car. Despite the fact that it's not considered a gun and despite the fact that the police were going to let him go the district attorney said to arrest him. He spent some time in jail before obviously being released

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Old 06-29-2017, 09:54 PM
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NJ cannot dictate what ammo a LEOSA qualified officer is carrying.
They can not, but like I said in the post above.....they have no problems sticking you in jail for a few months while they sort things out

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Old 06-29-2017, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Squarebutt View Post
I'm not and never have been LE, but I can tell you your Glock will not be a problem. The 17-round mags might be. Someone better versed in the LEOSA situation can probably tell you yes or no on the 17-round mags. For the rest of us, it's a felony.
That at last sentence is just sad and wrong.
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Old 07-02-2017, 07:39 PM
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As stated NJ above hollow points are not allowed if your retired, and don't believe in a minute that you can find some gun ho that will make your life hell.
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Old 07-02-2017, 08:17 PM
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As stated NJ above hollow points are not allowed if your retired, and don't believe in a minute that you can find some gun ho that will make your life hell.
Some cops are harder changing their minds than it is changing the law. People who claim NJ doesn't allow HP ammo for retirees quote a NJ AG opinion from 2008 which stated HP was not allowed. However, LEOSA was amended in 2010 to permit HP ammo. Therefore NJ DOES allow HP ammo for retirees because federal law says it will. Those who still claim NJ doesn't allow HP haven't kept up with the changes in the law.
And those who claim NJ cops will still arrest for it are more than just plain silly. For any cop or retiree, regardless of state, would you have risked your career and a suit arresting for a law that has clearly been overturned by the feds? Highly unlikely you would and neither would NJ cops. If you were a supervisor and one of your people arrested for a law that has been overturned what would you have done with your person?
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Old 07-02-2017, 08:33 PM
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Sounds like two god-awful states.
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Old 07-02-2017, 09:25 PM
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Does anyone know how LEOSA is interperted when visiting the casinos in Atlantic City?
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Old 07-04-2017, 05:38 PM
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The problem there is that they are private property, so can have their own rules. Whether they use any useful means to enforce them, I don't know.
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Old 07-04-2017, 05:58 PM
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I hate to muddy the waters, but ...

Last year a retired corrections office was carrying in NJ while visiting a casino, as I recall. Either en route, or on his way home, he was involved in a motor vehicle accident, and transported to the hospital. He informed the officer on the scene that his carry weapon was in the vehicle. The officer on the scene secured the weapon, and the corrections officer was arrested. It is my understanding that the case is still pending. The rationale that was applied was that the corrections officer did not have arrest authority while on the job, therefore LEOSA didn't cover the retiree.

It is my understanding that this is an active case.
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Old 07-04-2017, 07:05 PM
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Hopefully the Congresscritters get universal 50 state carry because of recent events. Should be a straightforward lawsuit to get it "equal" for all. We need to stick together and have "privileged class" destroyed. Joe
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Old 07-05-2017, 07:37 PM
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That case had nothing to do with LEOSA. The officer thought his PA carry permit covered him, which it didn't. The charges have since been dropped, but for reasons completely unrelated to LEOSA. It would appear that the media first offered the LEOSA excuse, not the officer.

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I hate to muddy the waters, but ...

Last year a retired corrections office was carrying in NJ while visiting a casino, as I recall. Either en route, or on his way home, he was involved in a motor vehicle accident, and transported to the hospital. He informed the officer on the scene that his carry weapon was in the vehicle. The officer on the scene secured the weapon, and the corrections officer was arrested. It is my understanding that the case is still pending. The rationale that was applied was that the corrections officer did not have arrest authority while on the job, therefore LEOSA didn't cover the retiree.

It is my understanding that this is an active case.
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