I have read about what you should do after a Self Defence shooting, and a lot of threads state to not say anything to LE.... UNTIL you get advice from a lawyer. (I kinda agree with this as the Maranda doesn't say anything about "helping" you, only that what you say can and will be used against you)

My question is how does one find a competent lawyer that is well versed in a justifiable self defence shooting? I have googled "self defence lawyers" in my area and it seems EVERYBODY with a web site is an expert. How do I filter out the posers?

The reason I ask is, well, we carry for the "just in case" scenario, and I would like to be as prepared as I can for the "after" headache.

Purple Bikerr

Here you go:

How to find a good attorney

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An important thing to keep in mind even if the shooting is no-billed and no criminal action taken; whatever you said to the police after a shooting can be brought into court and used against you in a wrongful death civil suit. That is why I would want my attorney present when I talk to the cops after a shooting.

A police officer present at a CPL training class, also strongly advised to request two ambulances to the scene. One to tend to the person that was shot. So you appear politically correct to the media, and the anti-gun crowd. The second one for yourself to take you to the hospital, to be checked out, from the stress and anxiety (possible heart attack). That way, you get to spend the night in a hospital, rather than a jail cell, until things get sorted out.

This video by Mas Ayoob is no substitute for competent legal counsel, but it's a good "primer" nonetheless.

Excellent! Thanks for posting.

This is a very good question. I used to belong to the local FOP and they provided legal counsel. I also know of a couple of very good defense attorneys in the area who might be called on if the need arose. One thing is for sure, be respectful to the responding officers but invoke your Miranda rights immediately.

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Defending a righteous delibert action of self defense is a different matter than defending an actually guilty criminal.

Putting aside for the moment any unfortunate acrimony , the lawyers most experenced in defending justifiable use of force, are those who defend LE Ofc against improper use of force. Find out who is retained by the local FOP or equiv organization to represent their members.

If they are not available to be retained, ask around to discover lawyers who themselves were formerly street level LE Ofc.

Absolutely say nothing to the LEO on scene except your name and address. You invoke your Miranda rights and say nothing more. The cops saying they are only there to help you is a crock you don't want to fill.
Yeah finding an experienced atty. from a jail isn't a good idea. I have Texas Law Shield which costs me around $140 a year and one call to them has an experienced gun atty. to me asap. In the event of any confrontation using a gun TLS will be with me at no extra court legal representation fees. If you are involved in a shooting you better have $25 grand at your disposal or you are going to have trouble getting legal counsel. I paid my $140 membership so I don't need $25 grand.
Check Texas Law Shield as they are now in quite a few states now known as US Law Shield. Like they say, you don't want to be stranded in a storm with nobody to call.

Yes, by all means keep quiet, but there's a right way and a wrong way. I recommend actually talking to the police, but only to say a little. Something like this: "I would like to help you with your investigation, but I'm a little upset at the moment. I would like to speak to a lawyer first and have an opportunity to calm down a little." You don't have to say that verbatim, but it is one way to say nothing without alienating yourself or causing strife.


The following represents the only things you should say to the 911 operator:

- I need an ambulance and the police (in that order);
- I shot a man (or woman) trying to hurt me;
- I am at _________;
- My name is _________;
- I am wearing _________;
- I can listen and will stay on the line but I cannot talk

Again, doesn't have to be word for word, but you want to start with asking for an ambulance. I'm not sure of the value of asking for two, but it doesn't sound like a bad idea.

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I would suggest there are things you need to point out.

It's a crime scene, and it's about to be trampled by police, fire, EMTs, and bystanders. Cartridge casings will be kicked around, footprints will be mashed, and witnesses will walk away. Small, unnoticed bits of evidence are going to be critical, and need to be preserved. That means everything, no matter how small, because it's often the tiniest, most-overlooked scraps that poke holes in your attacker's story, or show that a bystander didn't see what he thought he saw.

Yes, if you want to guarantee a ride in the back of a police car with bracelets on, after an obvious self-defense shooting.. invoke your 5th Amendment Rights.. Sheesh..

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People seem to be a little confused about what "Miranda" means. You do not have "Miranda Rights". "Miranda" is a "warning". A procedural issue. Also, you do not have a "right" to be given a "Miranda Warning". The Miranda Warning covers your 5th and 6th Amendment rights (and technically, 14th, probably). There is no need for police to advise you that you are under arrest and of what your 5th and 6th Amendment rights are, to allow a statement to be admissible, unless you are in custody AND they are asking questions of you, the answers to which they want to use against you in the future.

So when you shoot someone in a justified shooting, if you tell the responding officers NOTHING, as Badge130 points out, you will very likely be arrested and taken to the station and booked if there is probable cause to believe a crime was committed and you committed it. "Probable Cause" does NOT mean a "certainty" or "beyond a reasonable doubt". THEN you can call a lawyer, hours later.

So if you're at your house and the police get there and they find you there and a dead guy laying on the floor with half his head gone and you say nothing, invoking your 5th amendment right against self-incrimination, they are going to first secure you in handcuffs. They are then going to look for other suspects in your house to make sure it is safe. Then they're going to secure any weapons they find. Then they're going to get a search warrant and search EVERYTHING in your house looking for identification, guns, ammunition, anything to suggest a motive, identity of the dead guy, etc. In other words, if your wife has any toys in the nightstand or if you have any embarrassing items at all, they're going to find them and probably make jokes about them, cops being cops..... And it's all going to be on video most likely. God help you if you have any questionable stuff, like a little bit of weed or an unregistered pistol and they find it. You'll be charged with it after a perfectly justified shooting.

On the other hand, if you were involved in a shooting at a liquor store and you invoke your 5th amendment rights immediately and say NOTHING, and the store owner or any witnesses are still alive, they're going to tell the cops: "That guy came in behind me, then someone else came in and announced a holdup and pointed a gun at the clerk. That guy produced a gun from somewhere and shot the bad guy in the back of the head."

Now the police likely do not have probable cause to believe a crime had been committed as far as you shooting the guy, and that you committed it. They will likely detain you and try to determine your identity and then let you go from the scene. Or they MAY let you call your lawyer from the scene so he can tell you: "Just give the cops your name and they'll let you go. That will be $1200.00 please." If, for whatever reason you're STILL not talking weeks afterwards, they can always (in Michigan anyway), get an investigative subpoena from a judge and COMPEL you to talk to the prosecutor, under oath. Or if the bad guy isn't dead, they could get an order from a judge to hold you in custody as a "material witness" until your testimony is no longer needed.

Folks, the question the OP asked was

As for the legal advice everyone is giving, I'm sure it's of interest in terms of sitting around the potbellied stove, but I trust we're all wise enough to take internet legal advice with a block of salt.

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After doing some poking around the 'net, and seeing how much an atty. could cost, (est. somewhere north of $25,000) I think I'll opt for CCW insurance.

Talk to your home owners insurance agent. I have a million dollar liability option, that was very inexpensive.

There are three possible ways to be released by the police after a justifiable shooting:

• Questioned and released at the scene.
• Detained, transported and released at the station.
• Arrested, booked and released after the investigation.

I want the first scenario, don't you? Which process you get will largely depend on how you act with the police when they get there. You want the police to want to help you. You get that by being polite, not a 2A, 4A, 5A, 6A shouting loudmouth.

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The problem with that kind of insurance is.. it doesn't cover you if you are charged criminally.

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The police can not "detain" you and transport you to the station without your consent. If you are not free to leave and are transported to another location, you are "under arrest" whether the officers tells you you are under arrest or not. Constructive arrest. Investigatory detentions do not include being transported to another location without consent.

I've learned to take the advice of lawyers with the same block. I've seen many "general practice" lawyers take on a criminal case just to make a buck who should have been sued for malpractice considering the advice they gave their clients. They should have stuck with real estate deals and wills. On the other hand, I've seen some court-appointed criminal attorneys who were extremely good. If you want a good criminal attorney, I'd ask a detective from a large city department in the nearest circuit court where you live.

Amen - that's one of the techniques given on the thread I linked in response to the original post.

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RSanch111 has some very good posts and to add a few points to the discussion:

1) Criminal law is a specialized legal practice. A person who had a heart attack would not want treatment from a family doctor or worse yet an orthopedic/spinal surgeon. An SD situation is even more special because state laws are so different. Finding a qualified and experienced lawyer is very important.

2) Insurance doesn't cover criminal actions. The homeowners policies I've had from major companies don't cover intentional actions, like SD shootings or punching a neighbor (read the fine print). An accidental shooting, probably.

3) Miranda warnings are given only to people under arrest so demanding one is like asking to be arrested. LEOs ask questions and find evidence to determine whether a crime probably happened and decide whether to make an arrest. I've always cooperated with LEOs by answering their questions but not volunteering any information or running off at the mouth about what happened (and I'm not talking about a simple traffic stop).

Free legal advice isn't worth much and what is found on the internet is more likely to be just plain wrong than helpful.

Long but worth a watch.

I don't know if I'd say THAT exactly... It does tend to make people look kind of silly when they do that for a traffic ticket. What it does do is changes how the police will question you. For example when someone invokes their right to council, detectives, with few exceptions, will not question them until they get a lawyer present. So if you invoke your right to council at a straightforward shooting scene, the kind where you would have otherwise been told: "OK, we're done here, please get in touch with your lawyer and come in tomorrow and make a statement or let us know what attorney you're using so we can come to his office and get your statement." It might change things to: "He's not talking until he gets a lawyer. Go ahead and get a search warrant for his house. We're looking for ID, weapons, ammo..." etc.....

Once they convince a judge that they should have a warrant to look for something as small as ID or a .22 bullet, they can look just about ANYWHERE. So, as long as you're OK with them finding anything in your house (for example) where something as small as a driver license or .22 round could fit, go ahead and postpone saying: "He broke into my house and I was afraid he'd kill us all", until the next morning after your lawyer's hangover from the annual lawyer's party goes away and he comes in to talk to you while you're being held for some type of felony with no bond.

If you shot your brother-in-law because he cheated you on an inheritance deal, definitely don't say anything.....

OK, I'll defer to your experience. Of course the police can transport your without your consent. But like you said, that would probably mean you're under arrest. I've also seen discussions about exactly what "arrest" means. I'd rather not head down that rabbit hole of semantics in this thread.

The point I was clumsily trying to make was about attitude. Win the attitude test whenever you have official contact with the police. Give them and attitude and you'll almost guarantee an arrest. Speak to them in a calm and respectful manner and you'll likely get the same in return.

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IMO, if you don't find yourself with credible witnesses to support your side of the story, you'd better tell LEO's something, or it may be straight to jail. If it were me, I would immediately call the police. Tell LE that this was a self defense situation and I believed that if I didn't take the action that I took, I and/or others would have likely been killed or seriously injured by the actions of the other party -- who was: XXXXXXXX "aiming a gun at me" "assaulting me with a knife" (what ever applies). Then I would politely say, I would like to consult with legal counsel before I discuss this situation further, which I believe you can appreciate, considering the rights that are afforded peace officers when they are involved in similar situations. Once I have an opportunity to consult with legal counsel, I will be more than willing to discuss the events in detail. They still may take you downtown, but sometimes, that's the way they roll. Sometimes not. Criminal Defense Michael Rains is the best in the business regarding shootings. His firm normally works with police, but they do take-on other cases. Perhaps they can refer you to a lawyer in your state?

Checkout Massad Ayoob's You Tube Video "What to do after a shooting"

Just me but I would imagine I'm better off taking the advice of the guy who has actually defended and prosecuted people in court but like I said that's just me.

I will say it's probably a good idea to get a lawyer now rather than when you need one and maybe sit down with him/her before (God forbid) you have to defend yourself and come up with a strategy.

Again, that's just me thinking

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Yes, I have heard that also, and they legally have to take you to hospital. Just remember that a justified shooting or courtroom acquital may not let you escape a civil suit.

I would not falsely claim I had a panic attack, or a heart attack. The ER staff will be able to tell, and you don't want to be shown to be a liar.

I would seek treatment and documentation of any injuries I had sustained.

There's no need to justify your desire for an attorney with the "I'm sure you can understand...." line. Other than that, I think the "That guy was going to shoot us" and then "I'll need to talk to an attorney before making any further statement." is fine.

No one suggested that, just tell them you want to be checked out, you're not feeling well. I doubt that will be a lie!