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  #51  
Old 12-04-2016, 07:56 PM
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I usually carry one speedloader.
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Old 12-04-2016, 08:20 PM
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2 speed loaders and sometime I will add a speed strip or two depending on how I am dressed and where I will be . I carry a 6 shot Colt Cobra . When I carry a 1911 I carry two extra 8 shot mags .

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Old 12-08-2016, 05:13 AM
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There are 4 kinds of days...
Good Day
Bad Day
The day you die.
The day you die because you did something stupid.
Always carry a reload.
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Old 12-08-2016, 05:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonkers View Post
I carry exactly FIVE shots in my J-frame.

IF you have to reload your J-frame then things are long out of your control!
Why would you cede the ranged fight to your attacker after only five shots, when a couple speed strips cost almost nothing and drop easily into a pocket?
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Old 12-08-2016, 06:00 PM
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The other day I decided to belt on one of my G26's, using a Rosen Express Line Premier holster a close friend gave me as a gift several years ago. I've liked it for its nice quality, and its high & tight fit. Snug on the weapon. Easy to put an & take off a belt, and the holster loops allow for some adjustment of positioning around belt loops of pants.

Unfortunately, sitting in the car and in a rounded-back, wooden framed leather chair (at my cigar club) for many hours aggravated the "hot spots" resulting from so many years of IWB, duty leather gun belts and plainclothes gun belts.

The next day I switched to an older Blade-tech plastic paddle holster (made for the older, shorter J-frame cylinder/frame window length and non-sleeved barrels), and pulled my older 649 Bodyguard .38 Spl from the safe. That thin, wide curved paddle put no pressure on my hip and I was able to again forget I was wearing a belt gun. I might have to order a new one that will fit my M&P's.

While I can slip one of my Airweights or M&P 340's into a large inside breast pocket, pocket holstered, in some of my jackets, the extra ounces of weight of the all-steel 649 causes too much droop to suit me, so I usually break out a belt holster (or my camera/gun case) when an all-steel J is going to be carried. Ditto my SP101DAO, which is noticeably larger and heavier.

As I mentioned earlier, now that I'm no longer being paid to go out and actively try to find trouble and intervene, trouble is going to have to come and try to find me, so a smaller 5-shot snub doesn't cause me undue indigestion when carried as a retirement CCW.

That doesn't mean I might not carry a secondary weapon, then, when a J-frame is in a short belt scabbard or paddle and not in my jeans/slacks pocket. Not having the J-frame in a front pocket leaves room for one of my little LCP's, or maybe a NAA .22 LR or MAG.

Sure, it's likely a remote possibility I'd ever require a having an Onion Field-type "hideout" gun ... but unless I need that pocket for something else, it's often not a problem to slip one of those really diminutive .380's or .22's, in their pocket holsters, in that pocket.

Now, for work, it would require complying with any existing policies about approved weapons & calibers, and while I'd not mind once again carrying a 6-shot revolver for plainclothes (or a 7 or 8-shot model ), the 5-shot snubs would be relegated to more secondary/backup roles, than "primary" roles.
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Old 12-08-2016, 06:50 PM
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6 in the gun (model 64).....and one reload on a speed strip.
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  #57  
Old 12-08-2016, 07:43 PM
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5 on a strip clip
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Old 12-09-2016, 04:32 PM
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I find it interesting that those of us that carry autos and a spare magazine tend to carry twice the number of rounds or more then those that carry revolvers and reloads for them ..

My S&W Compact in 40 S&W is 12+1 plus a 15 round spare mag 28 rds total and my Beretta PX4 I carry is 13+1 and a 17 round spare mag 31 rds .. while many wheel gun carriers have just 10 to 12 rounds when carrying ..

So do people carrying autos fire more rounds in a self defense situation then those carrying revolvers ??
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Old 12-09-2016, 04:57 PM
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It's a combination of several things.

--A J-frame + speedstrip(s) is more compact than a high-cap concealable semiauto, so people tend to pack on less extra ammo (since they're selecting it for peace of mind, comfort, and concealability).

--It's easier to carry two 10-round 9mm magazines than it is to carry four .38 Spl speedstrips or speedloaders. Magazines in most states hold way more than a J-frame (and in the rest, they just hold a few more).

--The default number of spare magazines for a lot of people is two, because they're spare magazines, not necessarily extra ammo. Oftentimes the spare magazine is there in case of a lost or damaged mag.

--People tend to lie about what they carry on a daily basis.
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  #60  
Old 12-09-2016, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitwabit View Post
I find it interesting that those of us that carry autos and a spare magazine tend to carry twice the number of rounds or more then those that carry revolvers and reloads for them ..

My S&W Compact in 40 S&W is 12+1 plus a 15 round spare mag 28 rds total and my Beretta PX4 I carry is 13+1 and a 17 round spare mag 31 rds .. while many wheel gun carriers have just 10 to 12 rounds when carrying ..

So do people carrying autos fire more rounds in a self defense situation then those carrying revolvers ??
The choice to carry higher capacity spare magazines (for the next larger models) is yours, and it artificially inflates the round-count you're offering as an example.

Nonetheless, the answer to "how many rounds fired?" by carriers/users of semiauto pistols versus revolvers can vary by the time and source of reported statistics. I've come across official studies/reviews that showed the number of rounds fired may be only slightly higher, or up to twice as many as previously observed.

I'd use some caution in ascribing causes of recorded events in such statistical observations, though. Some studies and reviews have seemingly tried to account for such things, and some have seemingly involved conjecture.

It's also been surmised (guessed?) that some people thought the reason they were carrying more rounds was so they could "take advantage of using them".

An example ... After we'd transitioned from revolvers to hi-cap 9's, I remember one firearms instructor performing an aimed exercise (shooting a steel plate), where he just started blazing away with his hi-cap pistol, putting rounds all over the place (mostly missing). When he was quickly called on his sloppy shooting, he tried to justify it by saying that they'd given him all those available rounds so they could be used. This was a guy fully familiar with the necessity to aim revolver shots, too.

An aimed shot is an aimed shot, regardless of how many rounds may be available in the gun for making aimed shots before loading is again necessary. (I've seen many a former revolver shooter still look to aim each and every shot fired from their new hi-cap pistols.)

In a situation where a gun is discharged, each shot fired is commonly considered to be a use of deadly force, and someone using deadly force ought not be surprised if they're called upon to justify each and every shot fired(use of deadly force) afterward.
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Old 12-09-2016, 05:32 PM
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The only time I carry a J-frame anymore is around the house but it's usually the BG380 on my hip while at home. No reloads for either.

But if I go anywhere else, I'm carrying the M&P 9c with 12 in the gun and 12 in a spare magazine.
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Old 12-09-2016, 09:52 PM
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Like haywood, I carry two J frame 38 Special revolvers, (10 Rds), two Safariland® Comp-1 speedloaders, (10 rds), and two speedstrips, (12 rds); 32 rounds total.
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  #63  
Old 12-10-2016, 01:51 AM
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I carry one speed strip in my watch pocket of my jeans, and a moon clip or speed loader in jacket pocket, if I'm wearing one.

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Old 12-10-2016, 02:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastbolt View Post
The choice to carry higher capacity spare magazines (for the next larger models) is yours, and it artificially inflates the round-count you're offering as an example.

Nonetheless, the answer to "how many rounds fired?" by carriers/users of semiauto pistols versus revolvers can vary by the time and source of reported statistics. I've come across official studies/reviews that showed the number of rounds fired may be only slightly higher, or up to twice as many as previously observed.

I'd use some caution in ascribing causes of recorded events in such statistical observations, though. Some studies and reviews have seemingly tried to account for such things, and some have seemingly involved conjecture.

It's also been surmised (guessed?) that some people thought the reason they were carrying more rounds was so they could "take advantage of using them".

An example ... After we'd transitioned from revolvers to hi-cap 9's, I remember one firearms instructor performing an aimed exercise (shooting a steel plate), where he just started blazing away with his hi-cap pistol, putting rounds all over the place (mostly missing). When he was quickly called on his sloppy shooting, he tried to justify it by saying that they'd given him all those available rounds so they could be used. This was a guy fully familiar with the necessity to aim revolver shots, too.

An aimed shot is an aimed shot, regardless of how many rounds may be available in the gun for making aimed shots before loading is again necessary. (I've seen many a former revolver shooter still look to aim each and every shot fired from their new hi-cap pistols.)

In a situation where a gun is discharged, each shot fired is commonly considered to be a use of deadly force, and someone using deadly force ought not be surprised if they're called upon to justify each and every shot fired(use of deadly force) afterward.
....
even with a stock magazines I would carry 25 carrying my Compact and 27 when I carry my PX4 .. So 2 times what most revolver carriers carry .. when you carry one speed strip or speed loader or moon clip ..

But why wouldn't you use the highest capacity magazine for a spare that you could .. I don't see that as inflating the round count only using the best that is available just as a revolver user would use the best available to them !!

I would expect every shot fired would have to be justified in a self defense shooting .. The correct number would be what it took to stop the threat to ones life ..

I've never read any stats on number of shots fired between an auto verses revolver usage in a SD situation !! It would be interesting to read what the stats are on that .. and if shots fired are lower in states that have restricted magazine round counts then unrestricted states ..
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Old 12-10-2016, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitwabit View Post
I've never read any stats on number of shots fired between an auto verses revolver usage in a SD situation !! It would be interesting to read what the stats are on that .. and if shots fired are lower in states that have restricted magazine round counts then unrestricted states ..
I had remembered reading of a study done comparing shots-fired stats of a police department, possibly NYPD, between revolvers and semi-autos during the transition period that said officers with semi-autos fired more shots. I was curious so I used my Google Fu and found this paper submitted by the NYPD Police Commissioner in 1992 to the DOJ's National Institute of Justice, https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digi...45560NCJRS.pdf. It's his report on the pilot program where a couple hundred NYPD officers carried Glocks instead of their standard issue revolver.

A couple pertinent quotes:

Quote:
Reloading, however, is rarely necessary in an armed confrontation. Our firearms discharge records indicate that only 2 of the over 300 officers who fired their weapons in 1991 had to reload.
Quote:
Additional Rounds Fired - There is a documented tendency for more rounds to be fired from semi-automatic pistols than revolvers. For example, in the first year that all Transit Authority officers were issued semi-automatic weapons they fired 43 rounds of ammunition in 4 incidents involving armed confrontation - a rate of 10.7 rounds per incident. This finding is backed up by the New York City experience which shows that plainclothes officers who are authorized to carry semi-automatics fired 59 rounds in 7 armed confrontation incidents - 8.4 rounds per incident. This is double the number of rounds fired from .38 calibre revolvers which is consistently below 4 rounds per incident.
I should note that this was in the early 90s, so the nature of armed confrontations and training may have changed since then. Also, keep in mind this is a law enforcement report so it may not be directly applicable to civilian self-defense encounters. Another thing to keep in mind is that the author doesn't say how many officers were present at each incident, so that may also affect the number of rounds fired in total.
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Old 12-10-2016, 11:32 AM
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I don't know about the report or its conclusions, but Continental's post is well-written

Rounds fired in a semi-vs-revolver is one of those things you could argue about endlessly without ever coming to a decent conclusion. There are simply too many variables in-play.

Pick something you like, that you're going to carry, that fits with the way you're going to carry and preferably that you also don't suck out loud with. If you know you're not going to shoot it often or make much of an effort to carry/conceal it, the J-frame fits the bill. That's not a knock on its performance, just a statement of its strengths. Likewise, the semiauto offers easier reloading and (generally) higher capacity, but you have to make an effort to employ it properly.
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Old 12-10-2016, 05:19 PM
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If I'm going to carry a revolver, which isn't often, I usually carry one speed loader.
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Old 12-10-2016, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
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....
But why wouldn't you use the highest capacity magazine for a spare that you could .. ...
Depends on your anticipated needs and how an extended capacity (for model) works with your methods of carry/concealment.

For example, when I carried an issued 4513TSW, I sometimes carried an 8-rd 4566TSW magazine as a spare instead of the 7-rd 4513TSW spare. Ditto when I carry my CS9, meaning often carrying an 8-rd 3913 magazine instead of the CS9's 7-rd magazine.

However, when I carry one of my G26's (10-rd mags), my spare mag is a stock 10-rd mag ... even though I legally own a G19 mag (bought as a peace officer). Why? Well, mostly because I prefer the way the shorter 10-rd mag doesn't dig into my side, and how I can slip a 10-rd mag into many of my jacket pockets. (Yes, in addition to having invested many thousands of rounds of range time utilizing belt mag carriers, I've also included jacket pocket carry/use of spare mags into range training & drills.)

Another aspect which has influenced my thoughts can be the particular model/caliber of pistol being carried.

For example, I've seen mixed success when it involves pistols chambered in .40 S&W.

Sure, the use of the next larger model's higher capacity mag "should" work, but does it when it comes to any particular combination of gun, mag, shooter and ammo? Especially when it involves different shooters of different skills and experience? Does a magazine spring last as long in the taller mag when it's used in the shorter gun, which has a faster cycling slide velocity?

I've seen a lot of guys experience feeding issues when using G23 & G22 mags in their G27's, and those issues were typically resolved when they returned to using their stock G27 mags. I've not seen as many problems when G26's (or G19's) were being used with longer factory mags, though. Both groups are small samplings, obviously, but I've heard of other instructors and armorers relating some similar experiences, at times.

I experienced some feeding issues when using a SW9940 12-rd mag in a SW9940c (compact), but not when using the same ammo in the shorter stock mag provided for the compact model. A close friend (another instructor) has experienced the same thing with his pair of SW9940/SW9940c guns.

Personally, I'd examine the use of extended capacity magazines (even factory magazines for the next size up model) on a case-by-case basis, and be more inclined to consider it in 9/.45 guns than .40/.357 guns.

I'd be careful to avoid any risk of compromising reliability just to gain a few more rounds of capacity. If I did opt for using a longer mag in a smaller gun, I'd stick with a gun company's recommendation (and factory mags) and periodically check the longer mag for optimal feeding and functioning in the particular gun. I'd keep a careful eye out for any signs of weakening of the spring, too.

Sometimes, the reason for the expression TANSTAAFL becomes obvious.

Just some thoughts. Not anybody's "expert".
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Old 12-10-2016, 08:41 PM
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"Back in the day" as a uniform patrol officer we carried S&W model 10's. Six in the revolver and 12 in two drop pouches on our duty belt. 5 rounds in our 12 guage shotguns.
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Old 12-23-2016, 02:10 PM
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No matter what I carry I always have at least 1 reload..... for my belt gun and my bug. I really think it would be over before the need to reload, but, you have just survived an encounter standing there with an empty gun... and low and behold his buddies come around the corner..........
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Old 12-23-2016, 03:34 PM
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Model 65 and one speed strip.
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Old 12-23-2016, 09:09 PM
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Six shots in the old Colt, no reload.

Live dangerously......

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Old 12-24-2016, 07:59 AM
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I have worked local corrections, court security, internal affairs, and civil process for thirty five years and know the demographic you work with and supervise daily.
With the current threats against anyone carrying a badge, I would carry something more shootable than one J frame. My minimum for court day/office duty would be a subcompact Glock. If a revolver is desired, find a no lock K frame with a round butt and install some sort of boot grip. A quality belt and holster will conceal properly under court clothes. Save the small five shooter as a backup to the belt gun. I use a 2x2x2 ammo pouch by Galco for my first reload when I carry a round gun. Extra speed strips go in strong side pockets loaded with four rounds each. These can feed any size .38 I carry as opposed to speed loaders.
If you choose a bottom feeder, carry at least one spare mag. The inexpensive Glock polymer sport combat holster and matching mag pouch have served me well for plainclothes carry for years.
Just my .02. Good luck and be safe out there.

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Old 01-06-2017, 10:49 PM
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Only time I have a revolver as my only weapon is in Bear woods. Then it's a .44 mag and two speed loaders. Or, sometimes two .44 mags, a 4" and a 3", and two speedloaders. I like the round speed loaders over the speed strips, because I figure they will hurt less when the bears sticks them up.................
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Old 01-07-2017, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
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You need to consider that about 95% of all self defense shoots, even officer involved shoots are over and done with 5 rounds or less, fired at 5 yards or less in 5 seconds or less.

In fact, the FBI looked at 12 years of agent involved shoots and found that 75% involved 3 rounds or less at 3 yards or less.

Reloads are just not a factor in the vast majority of self defense shoots.

I'm not sure where you're working or your office policies, but my guess is that as a probation officer, you are not going to go into known hot situations, make calls in known hot areas, or go out to arrest a violator without a officer along to back you up.

---

With that said, my preference is to carry a Model 66 or a Model 686+ as the K and L frame revolvers are much more effective shooters and the ballistics are better with a 2.5" or 3" barrel in either .38 +P or .357 Magnum loads.

They are a bot heavier, but in a good IWB holster they are not really any less comfortable to carry all day long and not much less concealable.

----

Either way, a speed loader is still nice to have, and is much faster than a speed strip, but for concealment purposes you'll want to carry it in a slip over hold that slips over the belt and gives it a lower profile.

Great looking holsters-Sideguard or Lobo?
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Old 01-08-2017, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
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I carry exactly FIVE shots in my J-frame.

IF you have to reload your J-frame then things are long out of your control!

If I have to draw much less fire my j frame things are out of my control
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Old 01-09-2017, 09:37 AM
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For my M19, I carry two Safariland speedloaders in a nylon double belt pouch. For my M36, I carry a Safariland speedloader and a speed strip.
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Old 01-09-2017, 01:24 PM
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When carrying my 642 I used to carry 2 HKS speedloaders, until I bought my Ruger LCP. Now the LCP is my reload..easier to carry and faster than the speedloaders.
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Old 01-10-2017, 08:39 PM
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From a paper by By Massad Ayoob

A municipal police sergeant in northern Illinois, Tim Gramins, comes to mind. He pulled over a heav-ily armed suspect who came out shooting, and the fight was on. In just under a minute, the perpetrator was finally down and dead. During that time, Gramins had fired 33 rounds from his Glock 21 pistol, reloaded as necessary and hit his opponent 14 times with 230-grain Gold Dot .45 bullets. Six of those hits were in what most of us would call “vital zones,” but he fight wasn’t over until Gramin finally had the opportunity for brain shots. During that fight the suspect had gone through two semi-automatic pistols himself and had fired 21 shots. - See more at: 5 Gunfighting Myths Debunked By Massad Ayoob

That would be at least 6 reloads if a revolver would have been used ..

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Old 01-10-2017, 10:54 PM
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A speed strip at a minimum and generally one or two speed loaders.

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Old 01-11-2017, 12:24 AM
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Two.

My message was too short...........again, two.


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Old 01-12-2017, 01:40 PM
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I carry at least one reload and on occasion two. I refuse to have an empty gun after the altercation has come to a conclusion. Per the above described FBI stats... 5 rounds- 5 sec- at 5 yards..... then what.... empty



... an empty gun has zero value to my well being.

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Old 01-12-2017, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
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I carry at least one reload and on occasion two. I refuse to have an empty gun after the altercation has come to a conclusion. Per the above described FBI stats... 5 rounds- 5 sec- at 5 yards..... then what.... empty
Nope, I would still have 1 shot left because I carry a Colt!

For those who are using police statistics, I am afraid those don't really apply to civilians. Any of those incidents are very unlikely to happen to anyone other than LEO.

I only carry speedloaders with extra ammo if I am arming myself against the 4 legged variety of animals. When packing for the 2 legged kind, six shots in the revolver works for me most of the time. Maybe if going to a big public area I might throw a speedloader in my pocket, but mainly I go without reloads.

It isn't my job to engage an attacker and save the day. My job is to protect me and my family. I have confidence I can do that with 6 rounds. Or those 6 rounds will at least get me out of the heat.

Those suiting up with up to 30+rds of ammo may want to rethink the image they portray. I mean, if it makes you feel safer, then I guess it is ok. But you have to consider what others will think about you and your dozens of rounds of ammo. They could easily use the prosecution that you were 'looking' for a fight. Just a thought.

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Old 01-13-2017, 09:36 PM
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Lately I've been carrying a new CA 44 bulldog, with 2/ 2x2x2 and sometimes a couple of speed strips.
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Old 01-13-2017, 09:48 PM
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Zero.
I have used speed strips in the past.
Just having five shots makes me feel better than not.
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