I work for wind energy company and we are required to be on call in to the late hours of the nights. We are not allowed to carry in the office in work truckes and on site at the wind turbines. We have in recent month have had numerous break ins at night in the towers and alot of suspicious behavior from people. Due to the fact i cant carry at work and no effective way to defend myself. What legal actions can i take to ensure the safety of myself and coworkers.

If you see something suspicious don't go in, call the cops

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Go to the local police station where you will be working and inform them what you are going to do!
This is important because "someone" may assume you are stealing the apparatus, and shoot you off your ladder.
You will be surprised what the "shooting reports" tell us!!!!

Agreed. 95% of self-defense involves avoiding trouble. Your responsibility is to yourself and your family, and you fail at the latter if you get canned because you broke policy and carried to "ensure the safety of your co-workers".

Or did you want us to assure you that your employer is stupid, and you can do anything you want, b/c America?

Go out and buy a good quality assisted opening knife or my favorite a karambit knife.

I don't carry to "ensure the safety of my co-workers", I carry to ensure MY safety. It's hard to explain the hazards of working at all hours of the night. Someone that wants you as prey is not necessarily going to display their intentions. Situational awareness is your friend.

I EDC an XDs .45 with zero issues. Not the most comfortable and not the quickest draw but it allows me to carry virtually anywhere. When I really can't, I have a gun safe with me to stow it away.

Tuff products


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Improvise, Adapt, Overcome

Just carry anyway and carry in a way that no one will notice. I would rather be fired than dead

That's easier said than done. We don't know the man's financial situation or the job market in his area.

If I'm pulling up to a wind turbine and I see something looks wrong I'm not going to go and clear it, I'm going to pull away, call the police and wait for them. Maybe it's nothing, maybe it's something but I don't need to play police investigator.

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Is your boss the sort of person you can set down with and have a come to Jesus meeting with? Don't mean make a threat just tell him the real issues and see if he/she has the truth. I know a good job is hard to find these days. Even make a deal as no office carry but in the field it could happen. Good luck.

Number one has already been said, if you see something suspicious call the police. It should also be company policy that a good faith call to the police will not trigger disciplinary action by the company.

Number two if your sites are gated lock the gate behind you every time you go in. Lock doors behind you too.

Finally, take a good spot light and check the area before you get out of the vehicle.

If you're someplace that has bears maybe they'll let you carry bear spray

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Retired Career Security Guard

Every time this topic comes up someone suggests having a sit down with management and (with all due respect to the poster) I think it's the worst possible advice you can give.

I realize that some employers are reasonable but most aren't and once you broach this subject you are on their radar F.O.R.E.V.E.R.. They already have a policy in place. I wouldn't push the issue.

Similarly, someone always says "Carry anyway". I'm not advocating one way or another but I will say that if you choose that course after you've had your "come to Jesus meeting" with management they're likely going to suspect you anyway and if you are ever caught you will very likely be terminated immediately.

If you choose that route absolutely DO NOT discuss it with ANYONE you work with or anyone who works with anyone you work with because it will get back to your employer

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Retired Career Security Guard

Don't confuse company policy with "legal". Unless your wind turbine is posted "no guns", you can legally carry a gun. As far as what you can do with regard to company policy to protect you and your fellow employees......Do you use any 0000 copper service cable? An 18" length of that is better than a nightstick and a guy in your line of work wouldn't arouse any suspicion if he had a piece of it lying around. Personally, I'd carry a gun. My current job says "no guns" but my personal policy conflicts with work policy.

I was a supervisor for a company with a strict no guns/no way policy. I told my men that were on call, late at night in the ghetto, they were to follow company policy, on company property. AND, DO NOT TELL ME ABOUT OTHERWISE! because I would report them and they would be fired! Not a lot of choice in the matter. I and almost all of my techs were gun guys, I never had to worry the would be hurt.

Ivan

Back before I had CCP I worked 2nd shift and was responsible for closing up on Friday nights. It was in a very deserted part of town and very scary at midnight on Fir. nights. Therefore after I had my tires slashed on the parking lot I did start carrying. It was against Co. policy but I did it anyway. It would have taken the Police several minutes if not upwards of a half hour to respond if I would have needed them.

All that being said, I don't know now what I would do knowing all the laws governing CC and all other things taken into consideration. I probably would make the call and just wait however long it took.

In the end you have to assess your own particular situation and make the call for your self one way or the other. Whatever you decide stay safe.

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I Cor. 10:13 "1611KJV"

A good burst from can of directional wasp spray in someone's eyes will work wonders & it's better than nothing. Some brands will put out a stream 5 or 6 feet away and it is legal to carry anywhere too.

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be safe,enjoylife,journey well

Why were you carrying wasp spray at 2AM when it was 6 degrees out?

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Retired Career Security Guard

Consult an attorney. If he thinks you have a case, get out your checkbook. Be ready to spend 5 figures. Maybe in a few years, you'll be arguing in front of SCOTUS. And be out of pocket 6 or 7 figures.

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Just Say No - To Social Media

I'll add my 2 cents here. Laws are different in each state. If you were in Indiana and taking callouts in a personal vehicle, I'd point out that, under Indiana law, it's none of your employers business. You mention a service truck, so are you going to the office and then to the site on these callouts? Or if it's something you can handle without the service truck, you'll go out in your personal vehicle? If thats the case, park across the street and follow the protocol that most people have suggested, call it in if you see something suspicious, but then you're not a sitting duck waiting on the cops. Suspicious activity does not qualify as a lights and sirens run and I'm assuming if you're working at a wind turbine, you're a good distance from civilization. Long story short, you're going to be waiting awhile. If you're going on night runs, I doubt your employer would begrudge you a 3-cell maglight. If you go with this method, do yourself a favor and take some classes in kali, silat, or eskrima. When I was a night delivery driver, the mag light was actually my primary weapon, because it was justifiably already in my hand when I exited the vehicle (I was for the record also carrying a Glock 23 and S&W K-frame most nights)

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Just the opinion of a kid

My bosses encouraged me to carry a firearm at work, I do feel for the poor working guys that can't. I heard a lot of horror stories about people getting fired for defending themselves with a firearm while at work, even know a friend who was fired for just carrying one in his truck. I guess it is a personal choice if the job is worth your life, after a review of the working environment. Dialing 911 is option, but not always the best option.

I am pretty familiar with the wind business and in my neck of the woods, there may not be a sheriffs deputy on midnight duty in a 30-60 mile radius. A call to 911 means that someone is being called at home, woken up and responding Code 3 for a lengthy time. In winter conditions, best case responses are twice as long. I do not want to know where you are, but if you do not know how long the average law enforcement is to area, find out from more than one source.

In our megawatt plus machines, cell phone and even radio does not work inside the tower base unless very close to a tower. Cell coverage is spotty even when outdoors.

We have had numerous towers burglaries in the same night, bullet holes, trespasses, etc., so I will validate your reasonable concerns. No way a tech should be driving up solo to that.

Based on my limited experience, there is no/ very limited safe way to have a pistol while in a climbing harness. Midnight calls tucked into a work jacket is another story.

A can of bear spray would be better than nothing,, a bit of time at the computer one might be able to come up with a 'label" to wrap around, something like "electrical contact cleaner" or the like....

That...right there. Don't mention it to anyone--some disagreement down the line and it'll be "Well Joe's carryin'
a gun!".

All the advice on "if you see trouble, don't go in" is dandy, but trouble can roll up behind you, while you're head down fixing what you went there for in the first place. Then, you're on your own.

What if something is wrong and he DOESN'T see it?

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Stay protected my friends.

It can be anything. What if it's an ambush and he gets shot by 5 guys in a crossfire before even putting the car in park? Lots of what ifs.

I know that if it was me in that situation I would call the cops. I've been at my job for long time and it's not one which I can easily replace unless I sell my house and work at McDonald's

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If your employer forbids carrying in the workplace you will be Fired if discovered.

If you use your gun under these conditions, you're on your own in terms of paying your legal fees for a civil or criminal case arising from the event.

Makes you virtually unemployable.

Never happened to me at work but it most certainly HAS happened


That's why I recommended locking the gate behind you. I go out and checks sites like the OP described all night long and if there is a gate I lock it behind me every single time.

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Retired Career Security Guard

He's a lot more likely to get caught carrying a gun than he is to need a gun.

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Retired Career Security Guard

There's a lot of post both ways on breaking the rules. That's a risk/reward dynamic you're going to have to work out for yourself. Consider every piece of advise, but you know your situation better than anyone else here. How likely are you to get caught, is the job market in your area and your financial situation such that you can take the hit? What is the violent crime rate like in your area of employment?
One thing nobody else has mentioned; talk to your boss about hiring security. If you've been having a lot of break-ins lately, it behooves them to hire asset protection specialists.

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Just the opinion of a kid

Perhaps. But if he gets caught needing a gun and doesn't have one, then the fear of getting caught with one won't matter much will it? The fact that he's asking about it implies that based on what he see's happening, it's a valid concern.

Were it me I would be asking myself a few questions: What other defensive tools can I carry? If the company prohibits everything (which basically says they just don't give a **** what happens to me) then I have to ask myself - "have I ever lost a job and had to find a new one before?" Next question: If I lose my life can I get another one? No? Well, that makes my decision real obvious!

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Stay protected my friends.

Do not use wasp spray on people! Unlike OC spray which has transient, if very painful effects, wasp spray is toxic and can get your tookus in serious trouble. Read the label!

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CPT, Armor (Ret)
Luke 22:36

Have I lost jobs? Oh yea....all throughout highschool and college. Have I lost a carrier? A way of life? No!

Would you consider that same logic going out of state? I live and work on the border with NJ. Sometimes my work takes me to NJ and usually it's through Trenton......a ghetto. Would you still carry dispute their anti gun laws?

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That type of security is what I do for a living and I can tell you that I never spend more than a half hour at any given site.

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Retired Career Security Guard

Now wait just a minute, let's think this through.

Let's say the OP gets into one of those I. need a gun situations some night, even if no shots are fired and he's 100% justified the first thing his employer is going to do is say he was acting outside the scope of his duties and against company policy.

All of the legal liability just fell on the OP. He is now responsible for all his legal bills even if he wins.

He's probably (Almost certainly) going to get fired. This is just my personal observation but people in the same industry tend to know each other and they talk. So it's entirely possible that when his (prospective) new employer calls the HR department from his old employer the HR reps will have some kind of working relationship so odds are the new company is going to know exactly why you left that job even if they never tell you.

IMO The potential real world risks of getting caught carrying against company policy outweigh the odds of actually needing a gun at work.

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Retired Career Security Guard

Trenton being a ghetto doesn't automatically mean your life is threatened. Seeing break-ins and bullet holes at a place you're required to service, does.

In short, no job OR CAREER is worth risking MY life over. I will move and/or change careers, if I feel it's necessary.

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Stay protected my friends.

I guess I should have made clear; given the nature of these call-outs, you have a guard on a passive patrol-and pay for a guard or two dedicated to their sites, and when a tech gets a call out, meet them at the location.

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Just the opinion of a kid

Well that blows!

Even though it's a policy, not a law. In addition to being fired, you could be charged with trespassing.

There is a big effort underway to hold businesses / employers liable, if they don't allow people to protect themselves! I hope they succeed! There is no logic to preventing a law abiding citizen from doing so.

State Laws On Bringing Weapons On Employer Premises
http://www.ehs-support.com/wp-conten...r-premises.pdf

One other thing to throw into the mix: Some judges in some states have determined that intentionally violating written company policy is a crime. If you are leaning hard toward ignoring policy and carrying anyway, spend a few bucks to consult an attorney about the "criminal" issue. Most states have a lawyers referral service (might call it something else) run by the bar association that gets you a 20 or 30 minute consultation for $50 or less. Another possibility is to get your local legislator or local prosecutor to request an attorney general's opinion. (State AGs normally will not issue written opinions to individuals, only to politicians, and if it ain't written, it doesn't exist when you need it!)
The only thing I can add to that, is that it is easier to find a job when you already have a job. Now may be the time to look.

Yes, a true dilemma here. You ask "What legal actions can I take to ensure the safety of myself and coworkers?" That question would be best posed to a labor law attorney in the area where you reside or work. I am not an attorney, nor am I giving legal advice.
There are arguments and reasoning on both sides of the discussion. A paradox exists that must be addressed, and many employers 'try' to do so. It is incumbent upon an employer to provide a safe workplace (mandated by law in many cases). To do that, is it prudent to restrict weapons in the workplace? Some will say yes. Some will say no. One big fact that must be recognized is that there has been a substantial increase of workplace violence over the last few decades. As an employer, how do you deal with that? Having worked in HR for a substantial part of my life, I have seen this first-hand more than once. Lets face it, we all know that we would be a responsible weapon bearer in the workplace, don't we.....? But, for those of us that work around groups of other employees, don't we all know some of them that we are glad that they are not allowed to carry? So, how does an employer not get caught up in other legal binds (i.e. discrimination) when trying to determine who is allowed to carry and who is not?
No easy solution. Breaking corporate policy is not good for your career. Feeling like you are in jeopardy at work is not good for you either. So what does one do? Ultimately you are responsible for the safety of yourself and loved ones. Your employer must take reasonable actions to provide a safe environment. Your employer is not bound by law or ethics to agree with you. If your employer is not in agreement with you with respect to safety, this needs to be addressed and ironed out with the employer. One thing to consider would be to factually voice your concerns about "workplace safety". Remember, "workplace safety" is what got this pendulum swinging in the first place. Employers tend to listen to rational presentations supported by facts. Take that approach and see if anything will be done. Another approach would be to seek competent legal counsel to guide you with your discussions and presentation of the facts. (I am not suggesting a lawsuit.) This can get expensive. Remember, strong emotion and threats are not your friends dealing with things like this with an employer. So, where do you go from there? Consider a new employer or career, perhaps. Yes, that is inconvenient. But that is your option, and perhaps your duty to self and family. I know as I have been there. I gave up a nine-year gig flying because of aircraft maintenance issues that concerned me to the degree we are discussing here. But in the end it was my decision to choose who I worked for and why I worked for them (or did not work for them).
I wish you well with a resolution to this issue. It is not an easy one and may come with costs attached. But remember, you steer your own destiny. Your command of the facts and control of your emotion will serve you well in the near future.

Forgive me for the length of this.

Then there's that old saying...

Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6!

How many jobs or carriers let you carry?

No it doesn't mean my life is automatically threatened but it's a high likelihood.

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I would love to see a link to a story or court case that says that intentionally violating a written company policy (essentially a civil contract) is a criminal offense . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

That would be criminal trespass: you aren't allowed on the property with a gun.

If everyone else, including customers, non-employees, and visitors would be charged with criminal trespass for being on the property with a gun, then it's not intentionally violating the company policy, it's intentionally violating the law. I'd like to see a link to a court case or a news story that treats an employee as a criminal for intentionally violating a company policy, not violating a law that everyone else is subject to . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Criminal trespass is the only law I actually get to enforce. Unless the property is posted "No Trespassing" which wouldn't apply to the OP anyway you aren't trespassing until I tell you to leave and you refuse.

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Retired Career Security Guard

Some years ago I had a case where the employee worked in dispatch at a local LEA. She was not permitted to have a firearm at work.

One day she brought a gun to work.

She was fired and charged.

Could a private citizen have brought a firearm into the same location without being charged?

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

What was she charged with specifically?

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Retired Career Security Guard

Criminal trespass

Would a private citizen on a tour of the facilities with a handgun have been charged with the same thing?

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

I'd be willing to bet you're mistaken

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Retired Career Security Guard

I wouldn't. I think that's probably what happened. A dispatcher is non-sworn personnel, a civilian, just like anybody else walking in to the building off the street. Got caught with a gun, got fired due to the personnel policy against guns for non-sworn personnel in the workplace, and got charged for the criminal law against guns possessed on the premises by any non-sworn personnel. Still doesn't criminalize a violation of personnel policy . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .