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Old 12-19-2016, 03:53 PM
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Default Road Rage, Yet Again

Road rage blamed in fatal shooting of Arkansas toddler

A three-year-old boy, out with his grandmother, was shot and killed in his grandmother's vehicle when another driver became annoyed that the 47-year-old woman stopped too long at a stop sign. He sounded his horn and the woman responded by sounding her own horn. The first driver became enraged, got out of the vehicle, approached the woman's car and fired one shot, killing the boy. Police said that this is the second toddler to be shot and killed in a road rage incident in recent weeks.

My only thought, to follow up on last week's thread on road rage, is that any response at all to an angry, impatient driver, may be enough to push him over the line to homicidal behavior.

Unfortunately, as in most shooting incidents, the aggressor has the advantage because he knows, before you do, that he's about to enter a confrontation, believing he has the advantage because he's armed and assumes you're not. These incidents remind me of all those Celluloid World War II dog fights in which the enemy is directly behind you and you are in his sights. On the road, it is exceedingly difficult for you to achieve a tactical advantage under similar circumstances. You'll have to rely on your driving skills, rather than your CCW, to get the "bogey" off your tail.

I now have toddler grandsons of my own and I will absolutely not respond in any way to an aggressive driver. It's just not worth the risk. I have worked out a number of tactical scenarios that will allow me to level the playing field if an opposing motorist refuses to quit.

While this incident involves road rage, how many CCWs are aware of the additional dangers, under any circumstances, to an armed response when accompanied by loved ones? Your tactical plan should include separating yourself from them so as not to draw fire towards them.
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Old 12-19-2016, 05:14 PM
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I have separated myself from every road range incident that I have ever been involved with by using my driving skills, even when my weapon was drawn and ready. One thing I make sure of - if I even think there is a road rager after me I do not stop anywhere, I drive, maybe even aimlessly, until the threat is gone.
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Old 12-19-2016, 05:42 PM
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I never make eye contact with any of these idiots out there that may take exception to something I may have done while driving. I agree that you should NEVER stop your vehicle. If you stop you give the idiot the opportunity to get out of their vehicle and confront you and that will not end well. I just ignore them and keep on driving.
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Old 12-19-2016, 07:08 PM
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I heard some great advice in relation to responding to idiots while CCWing the other day:

Just let it slide.
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Old 12-19-2016, 08:40 PM
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I learned that people are untrustworthy, unpredictable and BATCRAP CRAZY at a very early age and I learned my lesson well. As a result I avoid unnecessary contact with people I don't know. Really, I avoid unnecessary contact with people outside my immediate circle and I don't make random comments to people I don't know because I've learned that you can NEVER predict how they're going to respond
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Old 12-19-2016, 09:06 PM
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I really hope we can "Take America Back."
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Old 12-20-2016, 08:40 AM
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Default Little Rock, like most urban areas, is a very dangerous environment......

............they don't have a crime problem, they don't have a gun problem, they have another sort of problem.
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Old 12-20-2016, 08:46 AM
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IMO
Incidents such as this are the reason we need two death penalties.
1.) The death penalty
2.) The slow death penalty
There some people I would rather not share the planet with.
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Old 12-20-2016, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 67tempest View Post
I never make eye contact with any of these idiots out there that may take exception to something I may have done while driving. I agree that you should NEVER stop your vehicle. If you stop you give the idiot the opportunity to get out of their vehicle and confront you and that will not end well. I just ignore them and keep on driving.
I agree. I had a car follow me one night for probably 30 minutes blinking it's lights. I slowed down several times to allow them to pass, but they'd only slow down as well. They followed me all the way till I pulled into a police station, then they keep on driving. The fact that they wouldn't stop at the police station proved the point that they were up to no good. I was armed but had no desire for any sort of conflict.
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Old 12-20-2016, 09:53 AM
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I'm unable to even come close to understanding what in the Hell is wrong with so many folks these days. So when someone acts like a bully/jerk I do my best to leave them alone. Ya it's shot to my ego, but it is a better option than real shots being fired.
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Old 12-20-2016, 10:02 AM
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What do you do when someone is tailgating you dangerously close, on a high speed road. You know they cannot stop in time if there is an emergency, or you have to slow for traffic in front of you. People drive like they are completely crazy now. I drive the speed limit, and everyone passes me. In the above case, if on a multi lane road, I change lanes. On a two lane road, I thank the instructors of the two pursuit driving courses I took. They may just save my life.

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Old 12-20-2016, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by federali View Post
Road rage blamed in fatal shooting of Arkansas toddler

A three-year-old boy, out with his grandmother, was shot and killed in his grandmother's vehicle when another driver became annoyed that the 47-year-old woman stopped too long at a stop sign. He sounded his horn and the woman responded by sounding her own horn. The first driver became enraged, got out of the vehicle, approached the woman's car and fired one shot, killing the boy. Police said that this is the second toddler to be shot and killed in a road rage incident in recent weeks.

My only thought, to follow up on last week's thread on road rage, is that any response at all to an angry, impatient driver, may be enough to push him over the line to homicidal behavior.

Unfortunately, as in most shooting incidents, the aggressor has the advantage because he knows, before you do, that he's about to enter a confrontation, believing he has the advantage because he's armed and assumes you're not. These incidents remind me of all those Celluloid World War II dog fights in which the enemy is directly behind you and you are in his sights. On the road, it is exceedingly difficult for you to achieve a tactical advantage under similar circumstances. You'll have to rely on your driving skills, rather than your CCW, to get the "bogey" off your tail.

I now have toddler grandsons of my own and I will absolutely not respond in any way to an aggressive driver. It's just not worth the risk. I have worked out a number of tactical scenarios that will allow me to level the playing field if an opposing motorist refuses to quit.

While this incident involves road rage, how many CCWs are aware of the additional dangers, under any circumstances, to an armed response when accompanied by loved ones? Your tactical plan should include separating yourself from them so as not to draw fire towards them.
Fed, as usual, a thoughtful post from you. Also, you have multiple plans! I am getting more like the sailor in Apacolypes Now who kept repeating..stay on the boat! I try to stay in the gates! Maybe you could share a couple of your plans. We do a lot of shooting from cars here, everybody finds out just how tough it is. Stationary is hard enough because of all the angles involved, but when the vehicle starts moving, everything changes, and for the worse.
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Old 12-20-2016, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
I'm unable to even come close to understanding what in the Hell is wrong with so many folks these days.
I'd say a lot but anger and unhappiness are probably on top of the list.
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Old 12-20-2016, 12:29 PM
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Due to a recent development, we should expect an uptick in dangerous, aggressive behavior.
Austin, Texas has seen a number of angry displays. I would expect that in and around urban centers, for a little while until "acceptance" kicks in...
.
The seven emotional stages of grief are usually understood to be shock or disbelief, denial, bargaining, guilt, anger, depression, and acceptance/hope. Symptoms of grief can be emotional, physical, social, or religious in nature.

For some, a puppy just isn't enough.
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Old 12-20-2016, 12:48 PM
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In Albuquerque NM a few yrs back , gang initiation was for the " wannabe " to go out driving at night , with their lights " OFF " ( this is important ) . When you met an on coming car and they flashed their lights , to remind you that your lights were off . The " wannabe " was to make a u-turn , chase the other car down and shot at it , trying to kill everyone in the victims car . The reason I know this is because I lived/ worked in NM for 10yrs . It was local news at the time .
So if you see someone driving at night with their lights off , is it just someone who innocently forgot to turn on their lights , or a drunk or " gang initiation " ?
As far as road rage . I just let it pass , won't honk my horn back and I try to remove myself from the situation as quickly as I can .

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Old 12-20-2016, 12:59 PM
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Default One Tactic

With big-city driving, oftentimes you cannot immediately distance yourself from an unhinged driver---you may both get stopped at the same traffic signal or traffic jam. These incidents tend to happen in heavy traffic because of the added stress of driving 15 MPH or so in a 55 MPH or higher speed limit.

When I have no choice but to be alongside a potentially threatening driver, I stop so that I'm abreast of his rear wheel, whatever side I'm on. This imposes a difficult angle for him to fire a shot while seated behind the wheel. If he were to get out of his vehicle and I can't drive out of the situation because of stopped traffic ahead of me, I'll release my seat belt and twist myself to fire rearward through a partially opened door. Regrettably, this tactic has been used against police officers who thought they were making a routine traffic stop. I'll drive through a steady red signal, if traffic permits, rather than have to engage an irate motorist. A side door has both hard and soft spots where a bullet can achieve 100% penetration. Any cover and concealment is better than none at all. If I see a gun (some motorists may fake removing something from the glove compartment to con you into thinking they're armed) and I'm momentarily trapped, all the elements are now in place, as I understand them, for me to employ deadly force. Employing deadly force against an individual who is actually armed is far more defensible than a situation in which you thought he was armed.

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Old 12-20-2016, 01:36 PM
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Reading these replies I'm so glad I live in the mountains with hardly no traffic. If it weren't for the mailman and the UPS truck I wouldn't see anyone and I like it like that. I stay away from the general population to many problems

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Old 12-20-2016, 02:16 PM
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It's one thing to read about this topic in a news article. It's a whole different critter to read all your comments -- makes it sink in and feel real.

Road rage has become a pretty foreign concept to me since I moved back to Wyo 17 years ago. When someone around here raises a finger to another driver it's usually the index finger as a greeting.

I have observed that other finger being raised, but it's really rare and it's usually summertime and the vehicle has out-of-state plates. Not bashing our state's #2 revenue generator (tourism), but I just shake my head and wonder why they didn't leave that attitude at home when they took off for their relaxing vacation.
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Old 12-20-2016, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboy4evr View Post
In Albuquerque NM a few yrs back , gang initiation was for the " wannabe " to go out driving at night , with their lights " OFF " ( this is important ) . When you met an on coming car and they flashed their lights , to remind you that your lights were off . The " wannabe " was to make a u-turn , chase the other car down and shot at it , trying to kill everyone in the victims car . The reason I know this is because I lived/ worked in NM for 10yrs . It was local news at the time .
So if you see someone driving at night with their lights off , is it just someone who innocently forgot to turn on their lights , or a drunk or " gang initiation " ?
As far as road rage . I just let it pass , won't honk my horn back and I try to remove myself from the situation as quickly as I can .
Snopes - Gang Initiations

A different Albuquerque rumor, but it references the rumor you claim as fact . . .
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Old 12-20-2016, 03:19 PM
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As of this mornings news, a $40,000.00 reward has been offered for
info leading to the arrest and conviction of the Little Rock road rage
shooter. Probably one of his own will turn him in.
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Old 12-20-2016, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
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Snopes - Gang Initiations

A different Albuquerque rumor, but it references the rumor you claim as fact . . .
Probably true, but.....Accuracy In Politics: Snopes Got Snoped
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Old 12-20-2016, 03:54 PM
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Well, how about NPR, then . . .

Safe to Blink the Car Headlights?

Of course, Snopes is still around, and the blog you linked has been inactive for four years . . .
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Old 12-20-2016, 06:24 PM
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Not arguing any of it. The flashing headlight thing happened in Corpus, too, but there wasn't any "turning around and chasing". The jerks just shot at the car as it passed. Our local newspaper is probably as reliable as a Canadian woman with a cat and google.
But did the Bloods really give blood?
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Old 12-20-2016, 06:49 PM
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Not arguing any of it. The flashing headlight thing happened in Corpus, too, but there wasn't any "turning around and chasing". The jerks just shot at the car as it passed. Our local newspaper is probably as reliable as a Canadian woman with a cat and google.
But did the Bloods really give blood?
I agree. Our reliable local paper ran a full blown editorial on Veteran's Day a few years back extolling the courage of one Fred "Mr." Rogers, a former Navy Seal during wartime, who wore long sleeves on his children's show to conceal his many tattoos . . .
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Old 12-20-2016, 07:08 PM
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I did, however, come across one snopes verified road rage case. One that Federali may not have an escape move for...
Elephant Road Rage : snopes.com
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Old 12-20-2016, 09:30 PM
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Here is my one experience with "road rage" I was driving on a rural road near the Mississippi River. I came to a stop sign where I stopped to make a left turn. Behind me I hear the screeching of tires and a loud thump, I looked back to see that a large car had not seen me stop had panic braked then run up on the median and was stuck over a road sign it had hit and bent over. I was about to get out to see if they were OK when a young man (there were 4 or 5 "thugs" in the car) jumped out with a pipe in his hand and came swearing towards my car. I was still in my car which had not been touched by the other car, no traffic was coming so I simply drove away before he got to me. I have no doubt that if they had hit my car, or if for some reason I couldn't have driven off I'd have been in for a bad beating, or worse, by this group. I didn't have a gun in the car then but do now!
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Old 12-27-2016, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by ISCS Yoda View Post
I have separated myself from every road range incident that I have ever been involved with by using my driving skills, even when my weapon was drawn and ready. One thing I make sure of - if I even think there is a road rager after me I do not stop anywhere, I drive, maybe even aimlessly, until the threat is gone.

Why would you draw your weapon? IF no weapon is in site or used removing your gun could make it become lost in the vehicle as a result of a collision and if you encounter police YOU will be the one with a exposed firearm.

Your approach has some drawbacks tactically. A gun is not useful in 99.99% of all situations, even most conflicts.
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Old 01-11-2017, 11:19 PM
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The headlight thing is something I would have probably fallen for just because, that's what used to be a courtesy to someone who simply forgot to turn theirs on.
Life has changed drastically in the last decade or so & there's never been more of a need of situational awareness as now.
As mentioned earlier, hauling grandkids makes it even more pronounced.

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