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  #51  
Old 12-21-2016, 12:46 AM
DBenn DBenn is offline
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True enough it happens but I have a bigger chance of being killed in the Jeep driving on the 400 series highways.

Either that I just might win the lottery.
But I have to ask, where are all the people who carry in the US when I read about all the shootings in bars, schools etc.
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Old 12-21-2016, 01:08 AM
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True enough it happens but I have a bigger chance of being killed in the Jeep driving on the 400 series highways.

But I have to ask, where are all the people who carry in the US when I read about all the shootings in bars, schools etc.
The odds of being involved in a self defense shooting are minuscule. Not every criminal can be stopped. But I have the right to not be a lamb at slaughter. I have an option, it's a serious one, and I treat it that way.
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Old 12-21-2016, 05:07 AM
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WOW I have got to ask as a Canadian who has a daughter (American citizen) who works in DC is it that bad in the USA that you have to plan your ways to draw a gun?

Not trying to be an *** here but holy **** you all scare me.

Biggest worry I got here in Canada is coyotes and the odd bear that wanders through.

Now I must admit we have shootings but that is very rare even in Toronto as they have had only 39 shootings for 2016.
What sense does it make to go through the trouble and risk of carrying a gun--the inconvenience, the discomfort, the effort, the expense, the risk--with no plan on using it? I would suggest that simply toting one around with no thought given to its accessibility is not only stupid, but reckless.

Now, if you want to have a discussion about the various techniques and methods of concealed carry and self-defense, feel free to join in.

If you want to contribute nothing to the conversation other than waving the "Canada is so great" flag and bash our tradition of private gun ownership and carry, I'd invite you to butt out.
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Old 12-21-2016, 08:10 AM
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What sense does it make to go through the trouble and risk of carrying a gun--the inconvenience, the discomfort, the effort, the expense, the risk--with no plan on using it? I would suggest that simply toting one around with no thought given to its accessibility is not only stupid, but reckless.

Now, if you want to have a discussion about the various techniques and methods of concealed carry and self-defense, feel free to join in.

If you want to contribute nothing to the conversation other than waving the "Canada is so great" flag and bash our tradition of private gun ownership and carry, I'd invite you to butt out.
Sorry but that wasn't my intent at all. I wasn't bashing at all but asking a simple question from someone who visits the US a lot and never felt unsafe but then I do avoid the inner cities.

Please have someone delete my posts and I will never mention it again.
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Old 12-21-2016, 08:16 AM
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What sense does it make to go through the trouble and risk of carrying a gun--the inconvenience, the discomfort, the effort, the expense, the risk--with no plan on using it? I would suggest that simply toting one around with no thought given to its accessibility is not only stupid, but reckless.
Now this I had not even thought of and I agree fully.
Thanks for this good explanation.
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Old 12-21-2016, 09:53 AM
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I just open the secret holster on my Bianchi fanny pack. I wear it on the front. If wearing a coat I leave the first 2-3 bottom buttons open, if a zipper, I tuck it under the fanny pack. I wear it year around.
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  #57  
Old 12-21-2016, 10:02 AM
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I carry appendix IWB. Never have to adjust my way of carry when it's hot or cold, standing or sitting.

Don't understand how some of you have 3 different carry guns, 3 different ways of carrying, and still expect muscle memory when the shtf and you need that firearm
Well the good news is most of aren't Matt Dillon and have to start every week out .......with a fast draw gunfight!!!!!

If I can (95% of the time) I carry IWB behind my right hip ...... have for going on 30 years...... (the only gun I could carry concealed IWB appendix would be a very small .380/9mm or a 2" barrel Jframe....and that wouldn't be possible the way I dress)......sometimes that just won't give me "easy/quick" access to my gun..... so I adapt!!!!

My smallest carry gun is a Smith 3913 or 3" 66 and go up to a 4" 66/19 or 9mm 6906 or 915... what works for one may not work for another due to their style of dress, weather conditions, and things as personal as their body shape.
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Old 12-21-2016, 12:06 PM
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T . . . But I have to ask, where are all the people who carry in the US when I read about all the shootings in bars, schools etc.
Most states have laws about carrying pistols into bars, schools, etc. The shootings happen in those states . . .
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Old 12-21-2016, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Arc Angel View Post
blah, blah, blah blahblah blah :

(It’s a real gun; but, quite honestly, it’s more difficult to use at increased distance, and/or against multiple attackers!
How would you know?


Wait, aren't you the guy that left your front door wide open so some random drunk could walk in?

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Originally Posted by Arc Angle
As far as the unlocked front door goes? We lived in a beautiful home, in a very nice neighborhood, and the town's large (80 + officers) police station was only two blocks away - So, how safe is that! There was, also, a plainly visible metallic sign on the right-hand lentil of our front door. It read, 'Warning: Guard Dogs On Premises. Do Not Enter Without Permission.'

The fellow who came into our home that morning had to walk right past that sign; and there is no way a sober, unimpaired person could have missed it! To this day, I've never quite understood how the fellow could do that - Drugs, or alcohol maybe? (However, since you've decided to dwell on this event, for your next, 'spitball' why don't you ask me what happened to him? It's another great story on, 'Why' being prepared and having an immediate means of adequate self-defense is so important.)
So, pardon me if I look askance at your advising me (or anyone else) on preparedness
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Old 12-21-2016, 07:13 PM
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Default As noted before...

...I lived in BIG cities as a LEO. Now with forty (40) plus years of gun toting experience I shall repeat there has NEVER been a circumstance that necessitated a 'quick draw' whilst in mufti. NEVER.

For the record, I am out and about likely far more than most. I have been in every state of the Union. And have CCW'd in every single one of them.

Though I don't know where you live and the situations that affect you, if I had to focus my attention on how I CCW seasonally to effect 'quick draw' I would move.

With that in mind, I CCW strong side circa 3:30 IWB or OWB (if wearing a suit/sport coat/jacket) and have 'used' my CCW gun on more occasions than I can recall.

Be safe.
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  #61  
Old 12-21-2016, 08:19 PM
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If I have to wear a heavy coat I put a J frame in my coat pocket.
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Old 12-22-2016, 03:33 PM
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How would you know?

Wait, aren't you the guy that left your front door wide open so some random drunk could walk in?

So, pardon me if I look askance at your advising me (or anyone else) on preparedness
Such internet courage! I have to wonder what singled me out for your particular ire? Yours is such a useful post; and I couldn't help, but, notice how much your wisdom has, now, added to this thread! (You certainly put me in my place though, huh!)

Quite frankly, I don't care what you do, or who you listen to. In fact I think I'd prefer it if you would not listen, or take heed, to anything I have to offer. (You're, obviously, so much smarter than I am, anyway; so, yes, you really should take comfort in your own advice!)
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  #63  
Old 12-22-2016, 07:29 PM
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Default Cold carry

On the way to the truck, 642 in coat pocket, hand on it. In the truck, ankle holster. Can fire from the pocket if need be. Can draw from the ankle when seated in the truck. When the coat comes off in doors, the coat stays close until it can make it to the ankle or pants pocket. Sometimes that requires a "bathroom break". You do what you've got to do!

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  #64  
Old 12-23-2016, 01:50 PM
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I leave the coat unzipped when outside and transfer my 19 snub to a gun rug between the seat and the console of my Pick Up and on occasion that the weather demands I zip up I drop a J frame in my coat pocket. I have settled on OWB at 3:30 year round and it is simple to sweep the cover shirt or the coat back and draw.
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Old 12-26-2016, 03:18 PM
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So you really think that gun will work against...........

the poor skinny BG that has 3 shirts, 2 flannel long sleeves ,
a heavy vest, scarf and a Navy pea coat on, to keep warm in the cold weather?
I shot one of those once. The 9mm Hydrashoks from a Sig P226 didn't work well at all. The 9mm FMJ rounds from the same gun worked quite well. He was wearing a couple of shirts, a hoodie and a winter coat. Two pair of sweat pants and jeans. The Hydrashoks penetrated the clothes but didn't penetrate him very well. The full jacketed rounds did. Since then, I like to carry rounds that are able to turn what would otherwise be my target's cover, into concealment.

I normally carry a J-frame in my pants pocket. The few times I really vary that is when I know I'll be wearing a coat or jacket or suit and then I carry a .45 lightweight officers model in a Blackhawk paddle holster at about 3:30. OR, when I'm going to a really bad area. Then I'll carry a Glock 22 with an extra mag. I don't buy special clothes for gun-carrying and I don't avoid areas I want to go because of potential danger. Vast majority of times I have just a 5-shooter with no reloads.

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Old 12-29-2016, 10:18 AM
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Living in a cold belt and having a job delivering bad news to people, I bought a heavy winter coat that has a double zipper and Velcro tabs. Thus, I unzip the bottom and use the tabs so that I could reach the gun if I were ever in a situation where I needed it.
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Old 01-06-2017, 10:32 PM
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What's your coat look like, in terms of pockets, and seat belts?
My EDC is a Sig 228. It rides OWB behind left hip. I wear a big honkin' North Face parka, and carry a 2 1/2 inch model 19 in the right hand pocket.
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Old 01-15-2017, 12:41 AM
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Several good ideas up there, starting with the guy who pointed out that your previous sticky pocket holster will work just fine in a parka pocket. I'm assuming your "bigger .38" is a J-frame S&W, given what forum you're on. Another good point is that if you're threatened while in your car, you've already got a means of escape in your hands, plus, in extremis, a weapon that's got several orders of magnitude more muzzle energy than a .44 Mag. My personal solution is the same one DevilDog72 uses, though.

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Old 01-15-2017, 01:46 AM
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What's your coat look like, in terms of pockets, and seat belts?
My EDC is a Sig 228. It rides OWB behind left hip. I wear a big honkin' North Face parka, and carry a 2 1/2 inch model 19 in the right hand pocket.
I have a nice North Face coat, but I can't carry a gun in the hand pocket. It's just a vertical slash pocket with no closure and a gun could easily fall out. The secure pockets half horizontal flaps on them, so that's no good for a gun really...
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Old 01-15-2017, 10:05 PM
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So, my question is inspired by the current cold snap, since I wear a coat VERY infrequently, and because my many years of routinely carrying a handgun holstered in my pants pocket was altered about a year ago (but not in the winter cold, obviously) when I decided to daily carry a larger .38 revolver IWB or OWB under a vest or light jacket. Not a problem. The problem is on a morning like today, when I bundled up with my usual vest, then a heavy coat and scarf, hat, gloves, etc. Okay, I shed the gloves and hat in the truck but not the coat so it's still part of the equation.

I'm sitting there thinking to myself, "Self, there is no way you can reach that revolver if you need it while you are bundled up like that".

Walking with gloves on and a buttoned up coat is even worse.

What do you folks in cold-weather-land do under these circumstances? It's weird to realize I never think about it because I so rarely have a coat on. Now I'm thinking about it so I am asking.

Thanks.
I discovered the solution to the "zipped up coat" problem when I bought my absurdly expensive Steinbock wool hunting coat - with its two-directional zipper. Until I upgraded my leather jackets and sheepskin coats, all of my frequently worn jackets had their zippers replaced with two-directional zippers. Wearing cross-draw or appendix holster, with zipper unzipped from the bottom until convenient, solves your problem. Zipping "down" takes all of 20 seconds before or just after leaving the car, but not bothering to do it translates to your jacket/coat falling back nearly to its zipped position anyway.

Replacing zippers on non-leather jackets/coats is not difficult for a tailor to do. Leather, on the other hand, is a high-cost specialty job. For example, in Missoula, Montana, I believe only Stan Logan's shop does the work. REI-Missoula does not.

Hope this helps.

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Old 01-16-2017, 12:33 AM
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One J frame on the ankle, and one in the pocket. One is always available to draw regardless off weather, well, until it gets hot around here (Pa) which isnt as much as it is where you are.
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Old 01-16-2017, 01:29 AM
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I have never carried concealed. Never seen the need to. I have lived in Seattle, San Francisco, New York, DC, with no need to carry, and spent a lot of time in other big cities. I have also on occasion spent a lot of time in rural areas. If I need to be armed in the line of duty it was always open carry (Miami, Chicago, and others)

However I have had several coats over the years that were perfect for carrying in a holster on a belt. They had large pockets with slits inside them that were wide and could easily allow a gun to be drawn. I currently have an Air Force parka that I bought while stationed in Salt Lake City in 79-81 that has the same arrangement. I can actually reach though the pockets to get my ID out of my breast pocket without any problems. Years ago when I was on shore patrol at Coast Guard Base NY (GINY to those that have been there) on the rare occasions when we were armed we had jackets that had a similar arrangement.

You could probably find a parka at a Army Navy surplus that has pockets like that. Or police uniform stores would also have coats like that. All the NYPD cops had them.
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Old 01-16-2017, 01:50 AM
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If I know I'll be taking the coat off I'll switch from 4 o'clock OWB/IWB to tucking the 442 in one chest slash pocket and speed strips in the other on my down parka. If my coat is staying on I'll go with an IWB holster at 3 o'clock.

Bill

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Old 01-16-2017, 10:53 PM
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Biggest worry I got here in Canada is coyotes and the odd bear that wanders through.
Yeah? How long does it take you to get an appointment with a cardiologist or orthopedic surgeon?
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Old 01-17-2017, 12:05 AM
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Yeah? How long does it take you to get an appointment with a cardiologist or orthopedic surgeon?
Actually not long. Got one for next week with 2 weeks wait for surgery.

So it's obvious you know me so PM me and let me know who you are.
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Old 01-17-2017, 02:25 PM
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In the winter, my primary becomes my backup. My [new] primary is the J frame in my front coat pocket (with a sticky holster).

I have the advantage in the winter because my right front coat pocket is often occupied by my J frame and my hand at the same time. Stay warm
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Old 01-17-2017, 03:15 PM
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I carry appendix IWB. Never have to adjust my way of carry when it's hot or cold, standing or sitting.

Don't understand how some of you have 3 different carry guns, 3 different ways of carrying, and still expect muscle memory when the shtf and you need that firearm
Same here. I pretty much always carry IWB appendix, about 2 o'clock position. Either a Detective Special or Python snubby.

It's funny because right before this winter started I was getting into open carry, OWB on my right hip. Since the weather is now cold and I need heavy coat and layers on, I have gone back to IWB. It is easier to draw and access for me with layers.

Plus, when concealing IWB in winter, your gun generally stays the same temperature as your body. So there should be no condensation forming on the firearm when changing from outdoor to indoors. I always wear an UA compression fit undershirt as my base layer year round, so the gun is never touching up against my skin. So no worries about acidic oils or anything getting on my fine iron.

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Old 01-17-2017, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by bigwheelzip View Post
Parka's have big enough pockets to drop your holstered rig right in there.
If it's COLD here, I wear a parka. The pocket's are big enough for a MAC-10, never mind a 3 1/2" M1911.

At one time, I was thinking about making myself a "pocket" holster for my 4" Smith 29-2 for the parka. I never got around to it. It'd probably work for my 3 1/2" 27-2 as well.
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Old 01-17-2017, 04:28 PM
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I carry year around in a Bianchi fanny pack with secret holster. I leave the bottom of my coat open, carry the fanny pack in front, so no problem.
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Old 01-19-2017, 10:31 PM
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2-3 months ago, I bought a tanker style jacket at Walmart.

Tonight, I had to drop my car off at the shop and get a ride home from a friend. We stopped at the grocery store so that I could pick up a prescription, since I couldn't leave the gun loaded in the car with him, and didn't want to unload it and put it in the trunk, I took it out of the bag that I had it in when I took it out of my car, and put it in the inside pocket of the jacket. It was a perfect fit for my 3 1/2" M1911.

I'll probably carry it that way instead of in the glove box during winter months.
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Old 01-19-2017, 10:37 PM
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If your sitting in a vehicle with a coat on, the best set up is a shoulder holster. You can access that with the seat belt on or off and your not "telegraphing" your movement as much as reaching for a belt holstered gun. Just my experience of 40 plus years.
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Old 01-19-2017, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wise_A View Post
Oh! A Shoot-Me-First vest.
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Originally Posted by Topsarge View Post
The slime around here aren't that smart.
The only people that notice those things are people who wear them for concealment or have thought about them for concealment. We used to call them the "Armed Federal Plain Clothes Officer" vest. Must be worn with RayBans and 5.11 khaki pants for the true effect . . .
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Old 01-19-2017, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
The only people that notice
those things are people who wear them for concealment or have thought about them for concealment. We used to call them the "Armed Federal Plain Clothes Officer" vest. Must be worn with RayBans and 5.11 khaki pants for the true effect . . .
What about people who have been arrested by someone wearing them?
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Old 01-20-2017, 02:44 AM
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If you're going to carry a gun for self defense, carry it in a manner you can get to it quickly. Whatever the low probability of that situation, it can happen when you least expect it.

Most of the time the weather is mild enough I can wear a short coat or jacket, making pocket carry a viable solution. Mine is a 3.3" .45, not a mouse gun.

Rather than a belt holster, my cold weather alternative is an Alessi shoulder holster. It's also easier to reach when driving. Much of the time I layer the coat with a down vest, which I can wear inside without attracting attention even if the outer coat comes off. I can conceal a full sized pistol or 3" revolver with ease.

Walking around in cold weather with an open coat may be a give-away that you're armed (or stupid). I don't feel out of place wearing an open coat over a closed vest between the car and a store, however, unless it's really nasty. In any case, I leave my coat open while driving, and outside of the seat belt.

Last edited by Neumann; 01-20-2017 at 02:48 AM.
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Old 01-20-2017, 06:31 AM
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One size doesn't fit all. There will occasionally be situations of worst case scenario. But multiple options by themselves or different times, or combinations.

1. Pocket of outer garment.
2. Shoulder holster. Only takes small opening at neck to draw from vertical SH.
3. Jacket with both ziper and snap or velco. Use snaps instead of zipper.
4. Jacket with front unfastened.

The last cpl presume you are suitably dressed in layers , including base layers, and you are not at the ragged edge of bare minimum for the present conditions.
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Old 02-09-2017, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
The only people that notice those things are people who wear them for concealment or have thought about them for concealment. We used to call them the "Armed Federal Plain Clothes Officer" vest. Must be worn with RayBans and 5.11 khaki pants for the true effect . . .
One summer before Oklahoma passed open carry, I saw a new neighbor a few times before I got a chance to meet him. I was pretty much wearing a photographer's vest all the time in those days, and he asked me who I was with. Turned out he was DEA and his comment was, "I thought you might be a FEEB." Apparently, when not dressed like Efrem Zimbalist, Jr. , FBI agents, "FEEBs," were/are required to wear concealment vests or "raid jackets."
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Old 02-09-2017, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by elm_creek_smith View Post
One summer before Oklahoma passed open carry, I saw a new neighbor a few times before I got a chance to meet him. I was pretty much wearing a photographer's vest all the time in those days, and he asked me who I was with. Turned out he was DEA and his comment was, "I thought you might be a FEEB." Apparently, when not dressed like Efrem Zimbalist, Jr. , FBI agents, "FEEBs," were/are required to wear concealment vests or "raid jackets."
When I see somebody wearing a "photographer's vest" and NOT carrying a camera, I assume they're carrying a gun.
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Old 02-09-2017, 06:52 PM
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Wear Carhartt. Stops a 9mm. If it's really cold, the BGs are hiding. If you happen to find one, move slow. Nothing like cold steel in a colder hand with a wind blowing. If you are depending on a fast draw anytime, you are going to lose.

Saw a chart of Canadian shootings. Several US states have rates below Canada, Canada has one province higher than most US. Most US shootings seem to be concentrated in poor areas of major cities (i.e. Chicago). I never expect to have to look down a gun at anything more dangerous than a rooster pheasant, but I am between 10 minutes(summer-dry and nothing going on in the county) and over an hour(winter) from the nearest cop shop.

Quote:
But I have to ask, where are all the people who carry in the US when I read about all the shootings in bars, schools etc.
You mean the "gun free zones". Most state and a few federal laws forbid carry in bars, schools, and the first lesson of CCW is "you are not a cop". Think about it. Shooting reported in a school. You are not trained to work with police or shoot in an area crowded with victims moving and screaming. If you shoot, you may kill a kid or a cop. Cops are taught to engage immediately. You are the first one they see with a gun. You have no uniform and are an unknown person, probably not wearing your CCW sash or badge. You have a gun in your hand and dead bodies around you. You die. Newspapers list you as a dead terrorist. Your family won't even get your life insurance. Police discover your home arsenal and if you reload, they announce you are a bomb factory. Your 2 bricks of .22lr are reported as 1000 rounds of high caliber ammunition.

Some where between 2 and 4% of us have carry permits. Many don't carry often. Pulling a gun at the wrong time. at the least, is going to involve major legal expenses, even if found innocent. You use it only as a final means of protecting self or family. If you are an adult and choose to not carry, why should I risk everything to protect you.

Note: Our 2A is a result of our founding fathers witnessing an all powerful government, and is designed to protect us from govt over reach, as is our whole Bill of Rights. The "shot heard round the world" was caused by the Redcoats attempting to take guns from the settlers.

Last edited by dougb1946; 02-09-2017 at 07:23 PM.
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Old 02-15-2017, 08:56 PM
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A winter or so ago there was gas station surveillance video of an off duty deputy involved in a shooting. He seemed to be able to get to his gun and survive without getting shot. My google foo is failing me right now. I think it was in Chicago as well so you know it wasn't too warm lol.

It can be done but it requires practice.
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Old 02-15-2017, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevada Ed View Post
So you really think that gun will work against...........

the poor skinny BG that has 3 shirts, 2 flannel long sleeves ,
a heavy vest, scarf and a Navy pea coat on, to keep warm in the cold weather?
Yup, he has left his face out in the wide open.
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Old 02-16-2017, 11:45 AM
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It sounds like your question is about when seated in your vehicle? My solution was to devise a holster rig which is mounted on the drivers seat, right in the front, and between my knees. It's on a nylon belt which lets me rotate it downward (and out of sight) when I am not in the car.

When driving (or stopped) the gun is perfectly positioned for me to grab...without any movement that would give away what I'm doing.
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