Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 01-06-2017, 09:54 AM
ChattanoogaPhil's Avatar
ChattanoogaPhil ChattanoogaPhil is offline
Moderator
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 14,266
Likes: 7,381
Liked 19,083 Times in 5,619 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchdog View Post
We're all free to voice our opposition to this bill in any way we see fit, but fact is, Congress really doesn't care if you support it or not.

That'd be something to see, though, wouldn't it...ol' Heston .....
Actually, the decisions legislators make often blow in the breeze in the direction of their constituents opposition or support.

Unfortunately, many gun owners and gun rights groups will eagerly advocate giving the Feds yet another high-five to meddle in things that are none of their business... confident in their thinking that if they like their permit they can keep their permit... it's all good.

As far as Heston you make a good point. I may have stretched my level of disapproval a bit far there. If such an event were to occur I might have to reconsider my position... maybe.

Last edited by ChattanoogaPhil; 01-06-2017 at 03:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #52  
Old 01-06-2017, 10:02 AM
jyork08854 jyork08854 is offline
Member
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 64
Likes: 49
Liked 27 Times in 19 Posts
Default

I have two concerns. I am concerned about the possibility of a national registry. Don't trust what future administrations would do with it. Also, the wide range of laws between states. I could be charged with a felony going back to NJ with my full size SC legal M&P 9mm with 17 round mag. What other states have rules and laws that I don't know about? Thinking about a planned cross country road trip and "touching" states when my "protection" makes me a "criminal." Will be carefully planning and researching the states we will travel through.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #53  
Old 01-06-2017, 10:04 AM
eahicks eahicks is offline
Member
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 283
Likes: 60
Liked 222 Times in 113 Posts
Default

Stop worrying about your state permit being reciprocal, and worry about the 2nd amendment, which overrides any of this bs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #54  
Old 01-06-2017, 10:06 AM
BB57's Avatar
BB57 BB57 is offline
Member
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Eastern NC
Posts: 1,460
Likes: 589
Liked 2,966 Times in 950 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by snuffy51 View Post
I don't want a chance there could be any influence from the northeast or the west coast on anything I have now. I do not care for the Federal Government having another control on my life. Leave it to the States and the people that vote in them to fix their own. Sorry guys, but we already are doing well down here in the Mid South and the Southeast, and most of the country. Mixing in the Feds probably wouldn't help anything. People in a state are the only ones who have a say on who governs that state. I can't vote against anyone in another state.
It's not interfering with how a state wants to treat its own residents at all.

It just means that if your state allows concealed carry that I as a resident with a concealed carry permit from another state can cary concealed in your state, consistent with your laws, limits, prohibited areas, etc.

The only deviations from this are protections to ensure that concealed carry on federal lands and national parks is not restricted for non residents by state law, and that state specific restrictions on magazine capacity or bullet types don't apply to non residents.

What this will do is prevent states from opting in and out of reciprocity agreements with other states on a more or less random basis, making it very difficult for people to stay current on where they can and cannot carry. This is very consistent with the intent and function of Title 18 and is in effect an extension to concealed carry of the safe passage provisions that have been around since 1986.

If you are opposed to this bill, then you are opposed to the concept of reciprocity in general, as well as the safe passage provisions of 18 USC § 926A.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ISCS Yoda View Post
There are two or three sides to this.

1. The gun lobby wants it. The concept is that a national law with national standards forces everyone to play by the same rules. I really can't imagine that happening, NY, Chicago/IL, CA, etc., just will simply not allow it if there is a way to prevent it. But the concept is there, just the same.

That's not what this is about at all. Nothing in this law requires a state to change anything about it's concealed carry laws. If a state chooses to ban concealed carry for its residents, it will remain banned for non residents. If a state chooses to limit concealed carry in various areas, those limits remain in effect for non residents.


only exceptions are related to concealed carry on federal lands and nullification of magazine capacity and hollow point restrictions for non residents - they will still apply to residents of that state.

2. There is a real issue with respect to the rights of the Federal government to interfere with the ability/rights of the several states to make their own SCOTUS permitted "reasonable restrictions" on the right to keep and bear arms. A very thorny legal issue.

Read what posted above. The only exceptions to the state's authority to regulate conclude carry in the state are related to concealed carry on federal lands and nullification of magazine capacity and hollow point restrictions for non residents - and those restrictions will still apply to residents of that state.

This law changes nothing regarding how a state regulates the right to keep in bear arms for its own residents, and if it bans or restricts concealed carry in any way (except the two exceptions above) those restrictions also apply to non-residents.

The only substantive effect this will have will be in states like MD where concealed carry is allowed for residents but is calm,most impossible for a resident to obtain as he or she must show a specific need for concealed carry and that's high bar to meet and somewhat inconsistent.

For example, an acquaintance of mine got a concealed carry permit after he was threatened prior to testifying in a criminal trial. However, 3 years later, despite continued threats from the convicted individual, he was denied a permit when that individual was released from prison. Apparently, MD was happy to issue a permit to ensure his testimony, but had no interest in issuing a permit to help him defend himself later. Nice, concerned public officials there in MD...



3. THERE IS A VERY REAL ISSUE with respect to Federal rules mandating this, that, and the other, databases, national registration, etc. Hard right wing thinkers are not overly pleased with this concept.

Absolutely no data base will be required - or allowed to be use. The individual must have a valid identification and a valid concealed carry permit on their person, but that documentation becomes prima facie evidence of compliance with the law.

There is also no federal involvement. It will be local law enforcement officials who will ask for and verify the person is carrying "facially valid" ID and concealed carry permit. This means if the documents appear to be original and valid that is the extent that the officer can dig into the issue. Specifically:

"Presentation of facially valid documents as specified in subsection (a) is prima facie evidence that the individual has a license or permit as required by this section."

This means no detaining the individual until their home state verifies concealed carry status, no checking of a data base, etc. This is also where the payment of any legal costs and damages to a prevailing plaintiff by the prosecution comes into play - it will forestall any intentional harassment of non resident concealed carry permit holders by states that are not "shall issue" states.


Notwithstanding all of the above, the Congress has the votes to pass it and I think Trump will sign it. Then NY/IL/CA and other states will sue and it will go to the Supreme Court. So let's not expect this any time soon. ICBW......
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #55  
Old 01-06-2017, 10:10 AM
BB57's Avatar
BB57 BB57 is offline
Member
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Eastern NC
Posts: 1,460
Likes: 589
Liked 2,966 Times in 950 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jyork08854 View Post
I have two concerns. I am concerned about the possibility of a national registry. Don't trust what future administrations would do with it. Also, the wide range of laws between states. I could be charged with a felony going back to NJ with my full size SC legal M&P 9mm with 17 round mag. What other states have rules and laws that I don't know about? Thinking about a planned cross country road trip and "touching" states when my "protection" makes me a "criminal." Will be carefully planning and researching the states we will travel through.
No you couldn't be charged for having a handgun with a 17 round magazine.

The bill specifically defines "handgun" in this manner:

"The term ‘handgun’ includes any magazine for use in a handgun and any ammunition loaded into the handgun or its magazine."

This means that your 17 round magazine loaded with your preferred hollow point ammo will be legal for you to carry as a non resident in states that have a 10 round magazine limit and/or do not allow the use of hollow point ammunition.

The law is designed to remove many of those pitfalls.

You'll still need to check to see what areas are specifically prohibited for concealed carry in the state but there will be no need to modify what you choose to carry or the ammunition you choose to carry in it.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #56  
Old 01-06-2017, 10:34 AM
ispcapt ispcapt is offline
Member
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: IL
Posts: 716
Likes: 47
Liked 625 Times in 261 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozark Marine View Post
I'm not LEO but there are no mag round limit restriction's in Illinois since the CCW passed.
I only brought the gun I wouldn't miss if the Ill State Police shook me down.
IL has never had a mag limit except that which was imposed by the feds by the 1994 ban. But there never has been an IL state law restricting mag size.

Quote:
Originally Posted by younggun22 View Post
The Illinois handgun mag restriction was done away with when the CCW law was passed. That being said Illinois has no preemption law on the books at the moment.
Actually it wasn't IL's handgun mag restriction as IL never has had an handgun (or any type firearm) mag restriction. The CCW law affected only local govt entities which had mag restrictions. Even then, local govt entities had until a given date to enact firearm restrictions. That date has passed.
You can go to this website for the local govt entities that have enacted firearm related ordinances. IL Concealed Carry License
Local govt entities are required by law to notify the ISP of any firearm related ordinances/changes passed by those local entities. That doesn't mean those local entities always do. Some of those listed may have been changed or preempted and the local entity never sent the update to the ISP.
The list of cities is not an indication of a long list of restrictive gun laws. If you read thru some of the local ordinances you'll find they just mirror state law. Local entities often do that as it makes a differences how they intend to file charges for any of those violations. If they charge under state law it is a criminal offense. If they charge the same violation under a municipal ordinance it is just a local infraction and not a criminal conviction.
A lot of the other municipal ordinances listed deal with things like zoning restrictions for gun shops, shooting ranges, etc, and would not directly affect the average firearm owner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smith61 View Post
After agreeing with you, I simply expanded on the LEOSA cases brought forward in several courts, in which LEOSA has pretty much trumped State and municipal statutes.
Pretty much? A bit more than 'pretty much'. LEOSA was written to do just that - trump state and municipal statutes. That's what LEOSA is about and what it says in the very first line of the LEOSA statute.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smith61 View Post
I do know this much, I can travel through all three of those states right now with a fifteen round mag. I will probably swap out hollow points for ball ammo in New Jersey though, LOL!!! Peace!
With all that training then you know that LEOSA does not address mag size limits imposed by state/local govts and therefore such restrictions apply. And you also surely know that LEOSA now includes HP ammo, even in NJ, so there's no need to swap out ammo if you're truly a bona fide LEO/retired.
__________________
183rd FBINA
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #57  
Old 01-06-2017, 11:51 AM
Smith61's Avatar
Smith61 Smith61 is offline
Member
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 175
Likes: 463
Liked 101 Times in 57 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
That ^ ^ ^ was where I was going. Even a federal law that says you can carry pretty much what you want isn't honored in some states . . .
Quite TRUE!!! (again, as usual Muss) :-)
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 01-06-2017, 12:14 PM
Smith61's Avatar
Smith61 Smith61 is offline
Member
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 175
Likes: 463
Liked 101 Times in 57 Posts
Talking You win the prize!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ispcapt View Post
Pretty much? A bit more than 'pretty much'. LEOSA was written to do just that - trump state and municipal statutes. That's what LEOSA is about and what it says in the very first line of the LEOSA statute.


With all that training then you know that LEOSA does not address mag size limits imposed by state/local govts and therefore such restrictions apply. And you also surely know that LEOSA now includes HP ammo, even in NJ, so there's no need to swap out ammo if you're truly a bona fide LEO/retired.
I think you CAUGHT ME!!!!! Maybe you could get me banned for failure to use proper strength adjectives relative to purposes of LEOSA, and impersonating a LEO
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 01-06-2017, 05:11 PM
jyork08854 jyork08854 is offline
Member
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 64
Likes: 49
Liked 27 Times in 19 Posts
Default

Thank you for the clarification BB57

Jim
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 01-06-2017, 06:39 PM
ispcapt ispcapt is offline
Member
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: IL
Posts: 716
Likes: 47
Liked 625 Times in 261 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smith61 View Post
I think you CAUGHT ME!!!!! Maybe you could get me banned for failure to use proper strength adjectives relative to purposes of LEOSA, and impersonating a LEO
No need for all that. Nothing about 'proper strength adjectives', just accurate wording. It makes an 'instructor' a lot more credible.
__________________
183rd FBINA
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #61  
Old 01-07-2017, 08:45 PM
lrrifleman's Avatar
lrrifleman lrrifleman is online now
Member
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Southern NJ
Posts: 2,747
Likes: 3,102
Liked 1,373 Times in 764 Posts
Default

I like the concept of national reciprocity, I feel that a carry permit should be recognized just like a driver's license or a marriage license. However, I do have a major problem with this bill as written. Too much of it hinges on the statement of "issued by your state".

I live in NJ, a MAY issue state. In NJ, your chance of getting a carry permit is right up there with the likelihood of running a successful snow cone business in Hades, unless you are a retired LEO, a select Judge, or properly connected to a prominent politician. I have a problem with the fact that a state would be obligated to recognize the permit issued by your state. While it may be unintentional, I see the current wording as an end run to curtail the issuance of non-resident permits from states such as Arizona, Texas, or Utah. In my reading of this proposed legislation, there is no obligation to honor a non-resident CCW permit. From the way that I read this proposal, persons who must depend upon the security of a non-resident permit are either left in the cold, or stripped of the right to carry.

As much as I long to move to a free state, but that is not in the cards for a while.
__________________
Judge control not gun control!
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #62  
Old 01-07-2017, 09:17 PM
steelslaver's Avatar
steelslaver steelslaver is offline
US Veteran
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Central Montana
Posts: 3,659
Likes: 1,202
Liked 6,182 Times in 2,096 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinhack View Post
And that's why the power to regulate firearms should be taken out of the hands of the states even if it means a constitutional amendment. That probably wouldn't fly but it would be the only way for all states to have the same laws and keep certain municipalities from stripping the rights of gun owners down to nothing. That practice certainly hasn't helped the crime statistics in those municipalities.
Not only no but Heck non I can not imagine a federal law being as liberal and laid back as states like . MT and Wyo and staying that way. To many big blue states will eventually get their say sooner or later
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #63  
Old 01-09-2017, 01:27 AM
Tyree1867 Tyree1867 is offline
Member
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: East of Albany, NY
Posts: 232
Likes: 1,012
Liked 90 Times in 57 Posts
Default

My preference is that all states are required to accept a CCL issued by any other state. As has been pointed out in other threads this approach is supported by the full faith and credit clause of the US Constitution. Each state recognizes marriages from every other state under the full faith & credit clause. CCL's should be treated the same way. Keep the Feds out of the CCL business, The federal camel's nose is already too far into our tent.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #64  
Old 01-09-2017, 01:59 AM
5point5sixGUY's Avatar
5point5sixGUY 5point5sixGUY is offline
Member
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Jacksonville, Fl
Posts: 132
Likes: 62
Liked 114 Times in 54 Posts
Default

I know I'm dreaming...but I think you should either be allowed to buy a gun or not, every state should have the same laws as to what you can and can't own, and if you can legally buy a pistol you should be allowed to put it in your pocket or conceal it in some fashion. I think you should be allowed to open carry any type of firearm out in the country outside of the city limits.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 01-09-2017, 10:23 AM
ChattanoogaPhil's Avatar
ChattanoogaPhil ChattanoogaPhil is offline
Moderator
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 14,266
Likes: 7,381
Liked 19,083 Times in 5,619 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol-Invictus View Post
It looks good, appears to say if you live in a state that does not require a permit, that simply having identification from that state meets the standard. I also like the provision that says you can carry any handgun, magazine, or bullet that would be legal in your home state. Have to love making persons and entities legally liable that mess with you. Also making them pay for your defense if you assert your rights under this bill. It really looks good.
Let's assume the above is true and it somehow passes in the middle of the night.

Here will be the argument going forward-- New Jersey (and other states) will be screaming... You're forcing us to allow Georgians without one minute of mandatory gun training to strut around in our state with "high-capacity" 17rd Glop magazines that have no purpose other than mass murder loaded with "cop-killer" bullets. Meanwhile... the residents of aggrevied states will have fewer freedoms than out-of-state visitors.

Now how long do you think these inequities and public safety horrors (as they would be characterized) would stand? Heck, there's lots of gun owners who already support mandatory training and have a dim view of "high-capacity" magazines as the tool of mall ninjas.

What will Reciprocity #2 read with "common sense" mandates to address these grievances? Feds love to fix things...

States like Georgia would of course be reluctant to adopt Reciprocity #2 in their permitting process such as mandatory training and whatever public safety "common sense" dreamed up. But how long would it be until threatened with federal funding or be ostracised via no individual state reciprocity agreements as they enjoy now with most all other states?

Is the above just a tin foil hat imagination run amok, or a realistic forward looking view?

Federal mandatoary reciprocity? No thanks.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #66  
Old 01-09-2017, 10:28 AM
silentflyer silentflyer is offline
Member
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Roanoke, Va
Posts: 1,486
Likes: 1,000
Liked 831 Times in 461 Posts
Default

The lawyers will be making big $$$ off of this for years....
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #67  
Old 01-09-2017, 10:36 AM
snuffy51's Avatar
snuffy51 snuffy51 is offline
Member
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Tennessee 38017
Posts: 1,481
Likes: 2,528
Liked 1,712 Times in 667 Posts
Default

Well, the feds fixed health care, didn't they do a good job.
__________________
"Only guns that spin" K.I.S.S.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #68  
Old 01-09-2017, 10:52 AM
les.b's Avatar
les.b les.b is online now
US Veteran
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: May 2015
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 3,122
Likes: 40,881
Liked 9,334 Times in 2,462 Posts
Default

My "jury" is still out on this issue, and all of the above views are helping me to come to some sort of informed opinion on the issue.

I might mention that many years ago congress passed the "Firearms Owners Protection Act" (not sure of the exact name), one of which provisions stated that folks who legally owned firearms in a state where they were legal, could pass unmolested through other states in order to get to a destination state where their possession would also be legal.

If I remember correctly, some states like maybe New York, simply ignore the law and harass and arrest innocent travelers passing through their states in defiance of the federal laws. I am not an expert on this issue, and I may be in error, but that is how I remember the story.

I can see the proposed law being treated in a similar fashion by restrictive states.

Best Regards, Les
__________________
SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #69  
Old 01-09-2017, 10:42 PM
rperillo05's Avatar
rperillo05 rperillo05 is offline
Member
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: RVA
Posts: 91
Likes: 48
Liked 74 Times in 29 Posts
Default

Like others have mentioned even if this were to pass it's not worth trying to go carry in a strict state, no matter how much I would like to. I'm originally from NJ but live in VA. Been here over 6 years now. I left NJ for many reasons but a big downside was always the strict gun laws. We travel back a few times a year to visit family and friends and I would thoroughly enjoy being able to carry there legally, but the hassle probably wouldn't be worth it. Even if the state acknowledged the federal law as a whole, how many local jurisdictions would not be caught up on current federal law, or give a **** and still give someone like myself a hard time if they noticed a print in my shirt or something. Not something I want to go through when I'm trying to enjoy time with family, my wife and son the already short time we're there. Then you still have to worry about all the establishments that can still not allow firearms on their premises regardless of any national reciprocity law.
__________________
Semper Paratus

Last edited by rperillo05; 01-10-2017 at 07:23 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #70  
Old 01-09-2017, 11:07 PM
AlHunt AlHunt is offline
Member
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 917
Likes: 1,351
Liked 951 Times in 436 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by younggun22 View Post
It's just a big reciprocity agreement.
It's a Christmas Tree for the gungrabbers to hang restrictions on. My state has constitutional carry and no background checks on private sales.

I hope this thing dies a quick and merciful death.
__________________
Freedom Is Not A "Loophole"
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #71  
Old 01-10-2017, 07:33 AM
rperillo05's Avatar
rperillo05 rperillo05 is offline
Member
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: RVA
Posts: 91
Likes: 48
Liked 74 Times in 29 Posts
Default

Also what would it mean for non resident permit holders? When I was in the military stationed in NC, but lived just across state lines in VA, but my legal residence was still NJ, I applied for and held a VA non resident carry permit, so I can carry in VA and NC. If that was still my situation wouldn't that same permit also now allow me to carry in NJ as well? Seems like a big loophole that would get slammed rather quickly. Since a federal reciprocity law doesn't mean States like NJ would have to start giving out CCW permits, which is damn near impossible to get.
__________________
Semper Paratus

Last edited by rperillo05; 01-10-2017 at 07:34 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #72  
Old 01-10-2017, 12:20 PM
ChattanoogaPhil's Avatar
ChattanoogaPhil ChattanoogaPhil is offline
Moderator
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 14,266
Likes: 7,381
Liked 19,083 Times in 5,619 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rperillo05 View Post
I left NJ for many reasons but a big downside was always the strict gun laws. We travel back a few times a year to visit family and friends and I would thoroughly enjoy being able to carry there legally, but the hassle probably wouldn't be worth it. Even if the state acknowledged the federal law as a whole, how many local jurisdictions would not be caught up on current federal law, or give a **** and still give someone like myself a hard time if they noticed a print in my shirt or something. Not something I want to go through when I'm trying to enjoy time with family, my wife and son the already short time we're there. Then you still have to worry about all the establishments that can still not allow firearms on their premises regardless of any national reciprocity law.
For those seeking FOPA like protection from a federal reciprocity mandate.

A word of warning: even if you qualify for Safe Passage protection, some states, such as New York and New Jersey, treat Safe Passage protection as a mere affirmative defense instead of a protection from arrest and prosecution, meaning that police in these states may still arrest you if you are pulled over with firearms in your vehicle, despite meeting all of the conditions of the federal statute. To beat potential charges of illegal possession of firearms and/or assault weapons, you would then need to assert your Safe Passage protection as a defense in court. This could involve substantial court costs and inconvenience, not to mention putting a halt to your vacation plans.

3 Things Every Gun Owner Needs to Know About Traveling Across State Lines | Texas & U.S. Law Shield
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #73  
Old 01-10-2017, 12:25 PM
AlHunt AlHunt is offline
Member
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 917
Likes: 1,351
Liked 951 Times in 436 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BB57 View Post
If you are opposed to this bill, then you are opposed to the concept of reciprocity in general, as well as the safe passage provisions of 18 USC § 926A.
Gotcha. "My way or the highway", eh?

Well, I am opposed to federal involvement in this issue and I am NOT opposed to reciprocity.
__________________
Freedom Is Not A "Loophole"
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #74  
Old 01-10-2017, 01:30 PM
Vettecor's Avatar
Vettecor Vettecor is offline
Member
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 46
Likes: 25
Liked 13 Times in 10 Posts
Default

It seems to me that everything the Federal Government has their hands on gets screwed up.

Look at the Post Office, loses millions of dollars every year. Social Security and Medicare are both broke because Congress can't get their act together. IRS totally screwed up with its regulations and rules.

Did you know when Social Security sends you a letter about anything at all in regards to your account the letter shows your full social security number ? I complained about it years ago and nothing was done. Why is it necessary to show the FULL SS number ? Have they ever heard of identity theft ?

I took my friend to the local SS office and when you walk in there is a machine where you have to sign in with your full name, full SS number, and date of birth. While you are doing that there is a long bench literally 18 inches away with people lined up waiting for their number to be called. They have a clear view of everything you are putting into the machine. When my friend got called I said something about it to the rep and she said, "can't do anything about it".

Look at the VA !! That agency and what they have done or I should say failed to do is a crying shame on the treatment of our veterans who served our country.

I could go on with other agencies that are also messed up because of the US Govt. having their hands on but you get my point.

I have no confidence in the Federal Govt.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #75  
Old 01-10-2017, 01:42 PM
Rick_A's Avatar
Rick_A Rick_A is offline
Member
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 2,518
Likes: 1,653
Liked 4,028 Times in 1,274 Posts
Default

While it's well intended, there's a handful of states that will fight this bitterly.

I kinda roll my eyes at the "Hearing Protection Act" as well. While it makes perfect sense, there's a lot of high and mighty politicians that just can't let us easily have nice things
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #76  
Old 01-10-2017, 04:29 PM
younggun22 younggun22 is offline
Member
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: VA
Posts: 663
Likes: 105
Liked 843 Times in 189 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlHunt View Post
It's a Christmas Tree for the gungrabbers to hang restrictions on. My state has constitutional carry and no background checks on private sales.

I hope this thing dies a quick and merciful death.
This has nothing to do with private sales or permitless carry.
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 01-10-2017, 04:37 PM
AlHunt AlHunt is offline
Member
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 917
Likes: 1,351
Liked 951 Times in 436 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by younggun22 View Post
This has nothing to do with private sales or permitless carry.
It certainly does. It gives the gungrabbers one stop shopping for all their anti-gun agenda needs. They can hang requirements and restrictions on this bill for all 50 states at once instead of going one state at a time.
__________________
Freedom Is Not A "Loophole"
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 01-10-2017, 04:41 PM
Whitwabit Whitwabit is offline
US Veteran
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 1,733
Likes: 762
Liked 1,320 Times in 677 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitwabit View Post
I want to read the bill before making any type of comment for or against it ..

It could be a good thing or turn into something we might wish we didn't have at a later time ..
After careful consideration I have decide I am against this bill as it is now written ..

The reason being all the Conceal Carry holders from states that are May Issue States who have non resident licenses from another state will find they have no way of carrying as the law is now written ..

This will eliminate a large number of conceal carry license from people who now live in those May Issue states !!

If the law were to be amended to include all conceal carry license holders including non-resident license holders I would reconsider ..
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #79  
Old 01-10-2017, 04:55 PM
Whitwabit Whitwabit is offline
US Veteran
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 1,733
Likes: 762
Liked 1,320 Times in 677 Posts
Default

Well it passed the house but .. and its a big but !!!

Anti-gun Amendment Passes

One extremely troubling amendment to the bill was slipped in on a voice vote.

Sponsored by Republican David Reichert (“C” rated by GOA), the amendment instructs the Government Accounting Office to:
“Conduct a study of the ability of State and local law enforcement authorities to verify the validity of licenses or permits, issued by other States, to carry a concealed firearm.”

I am not in favor of this amendment or any others tacked on this bill !! It sounds much like they want a list of people with Conceal Carry License ..

Last edited by Whitwabit; 01-10-2017 at 04:58 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #80  
Old 01-10-2017, 05:27 PM
gen3guy gen3guy is offline
Member
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 451
Likes: 9
Liked 405 Times in 190 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JK-linux View Post
Not a fan. Don't like the Feds involved in anything they don't need to be involved in. More specifically, I'm concerned it will lead to a permit system playing to the lowest common denominator (ie: states enact more strict local in-state CCW requirements than they currently have) in the interest of meeting some reciprocity standard. For example, I'm fine with my states standards and am not interested in tightening them so that I can pack heat in NY or CA or HI.
DITTO!!!!!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #81  
Old 01-10-2017, 05:35 PM
lrrifleman's Avatar
lrrifleman lrrifleman is online now
Member
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Southern NJ
Posts: 2,747
Likes: 3,102
Liked 1,373 Times in 764 Posts
Default

I would like to reiterate my concern about this bill. I do admire what it states, but I fear what it doesn't state. The focus appears to be the granting of reciprocity to permit holders that have been granted a permit by their state, but mentions nothing about holders of non-resident permits. Knowing how elected officials like to be literal followers of specific wording, I can envision that too many states and federal elected officials will use the legislation to neuter the effectiveness of non-resident permits. Please take note of Florida. They like to tout how many permits that they have issued, but that could be in part due to the fact that they will not recognize any non-resident CFP, other than their own.
__________________
Judge control not gun control!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #82  
Old 01-10-2017, 05:45 PM
younggun22 younggun22 is offline
Member
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: VA
Posts: 663
Likes: 105
Liked 843 Times in 189 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlHunt View Post
It certainly does. It gives the gungrabbers one stop shopping for all their anti-gun agenda needs. They can hang requirements and restrictions on this bill for all 50 states at once instead of going one state at a time.

You do realize that the bill and any amendments would have to pass a republican house, a republican senate and then be signed into law by a republican president?

If that happens I highly suggest you go out and bye a powerball ticket.
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 01-10-2017, 06:45 PM
Whitwabit Whitwabit is offline
US Veteran
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 1,733
Likes: 762
Liked 1,320 Times in 677 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by younggun22 View Post
You do realize that the bill and any amendments would have to pass a republican house, a republican senate and then be signed into law by a republican president?

If that happens I highly suggest you go out and bye a powerball ticket.
It has passed the house already and Trump has said he would sign it ..
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 01-10-2017, 06:48 PM
Muss Muggins's Avatar
Muss Muggins Muss Muggins is online now
Member
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: southeast Missouri
Posts: 7,586
Likes: 2,671
Liked 9,157 Times in 3,292 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitwabit View Post
It has passed the house already and Trump has said he would sign it ..
It's gonna have some trouble in the Senate. Probably not 60 votes there . . .
__________________
Wisdom comes thru fear . . .
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 01-10-2017, 07:08 PM
Watchdog's Avatar
Watchdog Watchdog is offline
US Veteran
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 7,209
Likes: 11,904
Liked 15,429 Times in 4,123 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
It's gonna have some trouble in the Senate. Probably not 60 votes there . . .
I don't think it's passed the House already. As of 9:00 p.m. yesterday, it was still sitting in the Judiciary Committee.
__________________
I can't get no...satisfaction.
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 01-10-2017, 07:08 PM
apollo99 apollo99 is online now
Member
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: ARIZONA
Posts: 573
Likes: 35
Liked 754 Times in 325 Posts
Default

The anti-gun crowd in NY, NJ, and Conn. are going to be on full fight mode. I remember when LEOSA passed, the NYPD commissioner said he would not honor it, and tried to instruct NYPD officers to arrest out of state retired and off duty LEO carrying in NYC. Unless you live or lived in the Tri-state area, it is hard to comprehend the level of anti-gun sentiment. I'm not trying to leave you Massachusets guys out of this they are pretty anti-gun up there also. This will be either blocked or watered down with restrictions, it will be worthless.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #87  
Old 01-10-2017, 07:26 PM
ISCS Yoda's Avatar
ISCS Yoda ISCS Yoda is offline
US Veteran
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 3,978
Likes: 772
Liked 3,578 Times in 1,635 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyree1867 View Post
My preference is that all states are required to accept a CCL issued by any other state. As has been pointed out in other threads this approach is supported by the full faith and credit clause of the US Constitution. Each state recognizes marriages from every other state under the full faith & credit clause. CCL's should be treated the same way. Keep the Feds out of the CCL business, The federal camel's nose is already too far into our tent.
Full faith and credit is NOT the operative section of the Constitution in play here. I wrote about it at length yesterday in another parallel, national concealed carry thread.

Federal carry law/national "chl" reciprocity/and drivers licenses

Neither drivers licenses nor marriage licenses operate under FF&C rules.
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 01-10-2017, 07:28 PM
ISCS Yoda's Avatar
ISCS Yoda ISCS Yoda is offline
US Veteran
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 3,978
Likes: 772
Liked 3,578 Times in 1,635 Posts
Default

I have to admit, now that I read the Bill, that the argument in yellow appears to be correct:

Quote:
1. The gun lobby wants it. The concept is that a national law with national standards forces everyone to play by the same rules. I really can't imagine that happening, NY, Chicago/IL, CA, etc., just will simply not allow it if there is a way to prevent it. But the concept is there, just the same.

That's not what this is about at all. Nothing in this law requires a state to change anything about it's concealed carry laws. If a state chooses to ban concealed carry for its residents, it will remain banned for non residents. If a state chooses to limit concealed carry in various areas, those limits remain in effect for non residents.


only exceptions are related to concealed carry on federal lands and nullification of magazine capacity and hollow point restrictions for non residents - they will still apply to residents of that state.
This statement still gives me pause:

Quote:
There is also no federal involvement.
If it passes it becomes a Federal statute that requires the States obedience to it. The first person to be convicted whilst claiming this law prohibits even the arrest will take it to the Supreme Court. Should be interesting if it passes.

Last edited by ISCS Yoda; 01-10-2017 at 07:32 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #89  
Old 01-10-2017, 07:31 PM
rperillo05's Avatar
rperillo05 rperillo05 is offline
Member
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: RVA
Posts: 91
Likes: 48
Liked 74 Times in 29 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by apollo99 View Post
"The anti-gun crowd in NY, NJ, and Conn. are going to be on full fight mode." "This will be either blocked or watered down with restrictions, it will be worthless."
^^^Two main things that stand out about this to me.

If I were an attorney or had one on retainer that was a wizard with gun law and could decipher all the BS that would be worked into this agreement I may consider trying to use it. But for someone like myself in my situation, as I stated before I wouldn't even bother trying when I go to NJ to visit. I have zero faith in that state or any of the other surrounding states for that matter.

All of the states that I would trust trying to use this in probably already have reciprocity with my current VA permit. So this would be worthless to me IMO.

And like others have mentioned. I am more fearful of what can of worms this could open if nothing else. Like I fear about the hearing protection act, that tax stamp was assessed with that time periods costs to be almost unobtainable or not worth it to some people and probably deter them from going through with it. It was never subject to inflation. What if that all goes south and they take that as an opportunity to look over the NFA tax stamp charges and want to raise it for other items, even if cans come off the list? So great cans can be purchased like any other non NFA item, that would be awesome, but the tax stamp for a SBR is now 3500.00 when inflation is assessed haha.
__________________
Semper Paratus
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #90  
Old 01-10-2017, 07:41 PM
Comrad's Avatar
Comrad Comrad is offline
Member
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: New Jersestan
Posts: 3,363
Likes: 1,023
Liked 4,261 Times in 1,633 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
Can you carry 15 round mags into Illinois or New Jersey or Massachusetts from out of state?

Edit: Or California, where it is now a felony to possess a 15 round magazine?
15 round magazines are legal in NJ just be careful what you put in them, you can own hollow points but their use is tightly controlled.

I know it's crazy but this IS New Jersey.
__________________
Back to back World War Champs.
Reply With Quote
  #91  
Old 01-10-2017, 08:43 PM
snuffy51's Avatar
snuffy51 snuffy51 is offline
Member
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Tennessee 38017
Posts: 1,481
Likes: 2,528
Liked 1,712 Times in 667 Posts
Default

Hey Ya'll, remember? "If you like your insurance, you can keep it." Pie in the Sky always ends up on somebody's head. I'm just going to keep on hanging out down here with the rest of us in this deplorables basket.
__________________
"Only guns that spin" K.I.S.S.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #92  
Old 01-10-2017, 09:44 PM
luvsmiths luvsmiths is offline
Member
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 16
Likes: 13
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by younggun22 View Post
You do realize that the bill and any amendments would have to pass a republican house, a republican senate and then be signed into law by a republican president?

If that happens I highly suggest you go out and bye a powerball ticket.
Yeah, and is the Republican controlled House, Republican controlled Senate going to exist FOREVER, as well as having a Republican President in office also forever? Remember Bush Jr said "put an assault weapons bill on my desk and I'll sign it"?

They look FAR ahead, your statement above is very near sighted.

Last edited by luvsmiths; 01-10-2017 at 09:49 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 01-10-2017, 10:52 PM
johngalt johngalt is offline
Member
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Lafayette, IN
Posts: 2,676
Likes: 162
Liked 1,959 Times in 877 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ISCS Yoda View Post
I have to admit, now that I read the Bill, that the argument in yellow appears to be correct:
This statement still gives me pause:

...
only exceptions are related to concealed carry on federal lands and nullification of magazine capacity and hollow point restrictions for non residents - they will still apply to residents of that state....
...


I've stated before that I'm opposed to a federal reciprocity law, the reasons have already been stated by others.

The section above also gives me concern. Do I approve of magazine capacity and bullet restrictions? No. But these are also state's rights issues. I don't believe the Constitution empowers the feds to dictate such matters to the state.

What happened to 'equal protection under the law'? Residents have to follow different rules than non-residents? That doesn't fly either.

If you establish that the Feds can dictate to the states what they must allow, then they can also dictate what the states can't allow.

Free states have already solved the reciprocity issue on their own. They shouldn't be saddled with the less-than-free state's problems.
__________________
Common sense isn't so common.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #94  
Old 01-10-2017, 11:16 PM
CoMF CoMF is offline
Member
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,495
Likes: 476
Liked 1,445 Times in 672 Posts
Default

My admittedly cynical views on this law:

There's no guarantee it'll make it all the way to the President's desk completely unchanged from its current form, and a lot can happen in its journey from committee to that destination.

History has shown that the passage of laws such as these have not stopped state/local LE from inconveniencing citizens over supposedly "settled" issues.

TL;DR version: This is all well and good, but it ain't gonna be as cut and dry as some think. It'll be messy at best, or a slippery slope at worst.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #95  
Old 01-11-2017, 09:51 PM
Sol-Invictus's Avatar
Sol-Invictus Sol-Invictus is offline
Member
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 109
Likes: 56
Liked 115 Times in 50 Posts
Default

I spoke to my rep, he is now a co-sponsor.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 01-11-2017, 10:08 PM
Muss Muggins's Avatar
Muss Muggins Muss Muggins is online now
Member
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: southeast Missouri
Posts: 7,586
Likes: 2,671
Liked 9,157 Times in 3,292 Posts
Default

Seems like we're getting pretty political here . . .
__________________
Wisdom comes thru fear . . .
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #97  
Old 01-17-2017, 05:10 PM
BB57's Avatar
BB57 BB57 is offline
Member
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Eastern NC
Posts: 1,460
Likes: 589
Liked 2,966 Times in 950 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rperillo05 View Post
Also what would it mean for non resident permit holders? When I was in the military stationed in NC, but lived just across state lines in VA, but my legal residence was still NJ, I applied for and held a VA non resident carry permit, so I can carry in VA and NC. If that was still my situation wouldn't that same permit also now allow me to carry in NJ as well? Seems like a big loophole that would get slammed rather quickly. Since a federal reciprocity law doesn't mean States like NJ would have to start giving out CCW permits, which is damn near impossible to get.
As a New Jersey resident, you'd still be subject to NJ law when you are in NJ.

A non resident permit in NC and/or VA will not lift the restrictions that are applied by your state of residence.

This bill addresses reciprocity only as it applies to a resident concealed carry permit.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #98  
Old 01-17-2017, 05:12 PM
BB57's Avatar
BB57 BB57 is offline
Member
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Eastern NC
Posts: 1,460
Likes: 589
Liked 2,966 Times in 950 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Comrad View Post
15 round magazines are legal in NJ just be careful what you put in them, you can own hollow points but their use is tightly controlled.

I know it's crazy but this IS New Jersey.
That's addressed in the bill as well.

The bill's definition of "handgun" for the purposes of the bill was written to include any size magazine and any type of handgun bullet. This was intentional to eliminate the potential minefield imposed by state to state variation in what is legal to carry by that state's residents.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #99  
Old 01-17-2017, 05:17 PM
BB57's Avatar
BB57 BB57 is offline
Member
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Eastern NC
Posts: 1,460
Likes: 589
Liked 2,966 Times in 950 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil View Post
For those seeking FOPA like protection from a federal reciprocity mandate.

A word of warning: even if you qualify for Safe Passage protection, some states, such as New York and New Jersey, treat Safe Passage protection as a mere affirmative defense instead of a protection from arrest and prosecution, meaning that police in these states may still arrest you if you are pulled over with firearms in your vehicle, despite meeting all of the conditions of the federal statute. To beat potential charges of illegal possession of firearms and/or assault weapons, you would then need to assert your Safe Passage protection as a defense in court. This could involve substantial court costs and inconvenience, not to mention putting a halt to your vacation plans.

3 Things Every Gun Owner Needs to Know About Traveling Across State Lines | Texas & U.S. Law Shield
The people drafting the bill fully understand how some jurisdictions apply an affirmative defense logic to the safe passage law as means to penalize people who use the law correctly - arresting them with full knowledge the charges will eventually be dropped or litigated in the defendant's favor - but only after he or she incurs significant legal bills.

That's the precise reason this bill holds the state accountable for both legal costs and damages in the event the state unsuccessfully prosecutes someone for violating the proposed law.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #100  
Old 01-17-2017, 05:25 PM
BB57's Avatar
BB57 BB57 is offline
Member
National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced  
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Eastern NC
Posts: 1,460
Likes: 589
Liked 2,966 Times in 950 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlHunt View Post
It certainly does. It gives the gungrabbers one stop shopping for all their anti-gun agenda needs. They can hang requirements and restrictions on this bill for all 50 states at once instead of going one state at a time.
Adding additional restrictions for federal reciprocity would be one way to get anti-gun support, but on the other hand it would also alienate the pro gun support, so a substantially *******ized bill is unlikely to pass.

In addition, even if it did, it would not change the current state to state reciprocity agreements or the current state level requirements. If it raised the bar, states would still not have to change their permits to meet the federal standards.

The same thing is currently in play at the state level. SD for example has a "Basic" permit, as well as an "Enhanced" permit with increased requirements that potentially make it more acceptable to other states for reciprocity purposes. The applicant can still choose one or the other.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Due process and national reciprocity ladder13 2nd Amendment Forum 3 06-28-2015 05:09 PM
Proposed bill allowing handguns in Alaska campuses introduced AkSaber 2nd Amendment Forum 0 03-11-2014 08:01 PM
Illinois Firearm Registration Bill to be Introduced Vegetaman 2nd Amendment Forum 5 02-16-2014 02:59 PM
National reciprocity ladder13 The Lounge 11 04-14-2013 09:59 PM
H.R. 822, National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act vytoland Concealed Carry & Self Defense 17 11-15-2011 04:44 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:23 AM.


© S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2015
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)