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Old 01-04-2017, 07:08 PM
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Default National Firearms Reciprocity Bill JUST Introduced

Rep. Richard Hudson of NC introduced H.R. 38 to the House yesterday. The summary hasn't been posted yet. 63 co sponsors.

Does anyone have any info on this? I like the idea. My concern is the level of Fed involvement which should be none as I see it.

How does everyone else feel about it?
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Old 01-04-2017, 07:48 PM
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Not a fan. Don't like the Feds involved in anything they don't need to be involved in. More specifically, I'm concerned it will lead to a permit system playing to the lowest common denominator (ie: states enact more strict local in-state CCW requirements than they currently have) in the interest of meeting some reciprocity standard. For example, I'm fine with my states standards and am not interested in tightening them so that I can pack heat in NY or CA or HI.
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Old 01-04-2017, 08:19 PM
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Gun Owners of America is telling it's members to contact their congress critters to co-sponsor the bill.
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Old 01-04-2017, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Ozark Marine View Post
Gun Owners of America is telling it's members to contact their congress critters to co-sponsor the bill.
That's what prompted me to post this thread.
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Old 01-04-2017, 08:27 PM
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[quote=g-dad;139401212]That's what prompted me to post this thread.[/quot

GOA is the Tea Party of the 2A. Not as many members as the NRA. But more vocal

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Old 01-04-2017, 09:40 PM
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I want to read the bill before making any type of comment for or against it ..

It could be a good thing or turn into something we might wish we didn't have at a later time ..
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Old 01-04-2017, 10:01 PM
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I want to read the bill before making any type of comment for or against it ..

It could be a good thing or turn into something we might wish we didn't have at a later time ..
I agree. As I originally posted the summary hasn't been published yet and I will not contact my congressman until I can see it. I don't want to see another "we have to pass it so we can read it" episode.
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Old 01-04-2017, 10:06 PM
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Yeah, as long as the bill doesn't end up pushing CA, NY, or HI type standards and requirements, it has the potential to be a good thing. If would make the rest of us jump through those kinds of hoops to get a CCP then no thanks.
As they say, the devil is in the details, so we shall see...
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Old 01-04-2017, 10:09 PM
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This appears to be the text of the bill in it's current form.

https://hudson.house.gov/uploads/Con...0of%202017.pdf
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Old 01-04-2017, 11:04 PM
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I don't see a problem with what is written at this point. It's what happens after it gets sliced and diced and rewritten that could be worrisome.
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Old 01-04-2017, 11:56 PM
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what is not to stop states from restricting where conceal carry can be legal to the point its overly restricted and almost useless ??

The state I live in is that way now (Illinois) there is so many no gun zones in communities like parks and buses and all mass transit, rest areas on highways and other areas all out side entertainment such as parades, carnivals/festivals, fairs, about any where a large group of people would be gathered .... many of the places restricted are where you might want to most carry ..

I can hear the cries of the anti gun crowd now !!!
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Old 01-05-2017, 12:02 AM
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It looks good, appears to say if you live in a state that does not require a permit, that simply having identification from that state meets the standard. I also like the provision that says you can carry any handgun, magazine, or bullet that would be legal in your home state. Have to love making persons and entities legally liable that mess with you. Also making them pay for your defense if you assert your rights under this bill. It really looks good.

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Old 01-05-2017, 12:08 AM
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Default No Feds

I don't want a chance there could be any influence from the northeast or the west coast on anything I have now. I do not care for the Federal Government having another control on my life. Leave it to the States and the people that vote in them to fix their own. Sorry guys, but we already are doing well down here in the Mid South and the Southeast, and most of the country. Mixing in the Feds probably wouldn't help anything. People in a state are the only ones who have a say on who governs that state. I can't vote against anyone in another state.
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Old 01-05-2017, 12:18 AM
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That is a concern I have regarding a rewrite of the proposed bill. To get acceptance in all states they end up using the most restrictive states rules. And that ain't gonna work!
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Old 01-05-2017, 02:46 AM
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A federal bill doesn't need "acceptance in all states".
That's why many don't like the fed under any circumstances.
Maybe this time it will be the other half that won't like the fed.

If this is going to allow me to do everything I can do here in Wisconsin as I mosey thru or even stay in Illinois, it can't be all that bad.
I expect there will be teeth and nails used during these debates.
Let the circus continue!
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Old 01-05-2017, 09:15 AM
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One concern I have is that anything given to you by the govt. can be taken away.
And if it was taken away in whole or in part at a later date, where would you be? Nothing left to revert back to and a very steep hill to climb to reinstate your old laws.
The wording and meaning in such a bill would have to be unequivocal and not subject to anyone's interpretation or change without some sort of super majority involving every state.

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Old 01-05-2017, 09:43 AM
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It looks good on paper as written, but how much of that bill will be dissected until it satisfies the more restrictive states. If it would be accepted as written I would be for it. My instinct however tells me its the federal government.....alert level rises.
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Old 01-05-2017, 10:02 AM
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Like KS law, which is constitutional carry, I and many others do not believe in petitioning the government for a right which the constitution gives us already.
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Old 01-05-2017, 10:12 AM
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Although the 2nd Amendment exists at the federal level and is supposed to apply to the entire country, I think the blue states will fight it every step of the way, mainly on state's rights issues.
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Old 01-05-2017, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by g-dad View Post
Rep. Richard Hudson of NC introduced H.R. 38 to the House yesterday. The summary hasn't been posted yet. 63 co sponsors.
This is the same bill that was was talked about here last month. Most people in that thread seemed to want to argue and complain about it being a "federal idea" rather than a states' rights issue...or whatever point they were trying to make, which seemed to be that they don't like "the government" telling them what they can and can't do, no matter what it is.

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Does anyone have any info on this? I like the idea. My concern is the level of Fed involvement which should be none as I see it.
Well, if you don't think the federal government should be involved, who else do you think is going to pass a national reciprocity law? The states sure aren't going to do it on their own. Some of them can't even agree on who can carry a gun from one state into their state. They nitpick each other to death over state concealed carry requirements and laws. Some states have no restrictions, while others make it impossible to legally carry a gun even if you're just passing through.

Using our own state of North Carolina as an example, we recognize concealed carry permits from all other states...but only 36 states recognize ours. I wonder why?

Some people argue that we shouldn't have to ask permission from the government to exercise a Constitutional right. We shouldn't need a permit or a license and we especially shouldn't have to pay for the right. Constitutional carry might be a good idea, but the fact of the matter is...it isn't legal nationwide yet. Neither is national reciprocity. And the only entity that can enact national reciprocity is the federal government.

So like it or not, unless the feds are involved, you aren't gonna get national reciprocity in your lifetime.

Note, also, that the NRA has issued a statement in support of this bill.
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Old 01-05-2017, 11:24 AM
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The Feds should do what Texas did as of 1/1/2016. Texas took the power of gun restrictions and control out of the hands of local governments. They can't even post the obligatory 30.06/30.07 signs* for entire public-access government buildings. Only those rooms actually used for government functions are restricted and allowed to have signs. The AG has already taken many communities to task over the law that also provides a hefty monetary fine.

(*) "30.06/30.07 signs" refers to the code segments that allow entities to restrict access to property for those with concealed/open carry handguns respectively. These signs are most often used by retail outlets.
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Old 01-05-2017, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Ozark Marine View Post
Gun Owners of America is telling it's members to contact their congress critters to co-sponsor the bill.
Why? What's good about it? This is not smart alecky question. I'm legitimately concerned. The states like mine, Connecticut, will make a bill like this dangerous for states who are acutally free. I intend to escape CT in the not too distant future and do not wish to have the CT Generally Assembly critters in Hartford infecting the rest of the country with their nonsense. Maybe I'm being nieve, but the thought of my local idiots having another opportunity to spread their ignorance of 2A outside of the CT borders is somewhat terrifying.

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Old 01-05-2017, 12:02 PM
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I don't think it is a smart aleck question at all. I'm not even sure of what can be made of the proposal too.
NRA and GOA have lawyers looking into it. I was passing the word to the members here to see what they think about it.
I'm very happy with Missouri's gun laws. The best in the country. But when I go back to visit Chicago (my home town till I retired) I'd feel alot better to be able to legally carry my sidearm.
But I think the politicians are starting to get the message. Do as the legal law biding citizens tell you or you'll be voted out.
They are the servants, not us.
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Old 01-05-2017, 12:21 PM
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I'm fine with it as long as home states don't lower their standards. while it would be cool to carry in new york city I imagine there would be a million ways to get hung up.
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Old 01-05-2017, 12:24 PM
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Should get passed without too many amendments hopefully. Will you still be restricted in some states, sure but its better than what we have on the books now.
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Old 01-05-2017, 02:29 PM
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Should get passed without too many amendments hopefully. .
Just sit back and watch.
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Old 01-05-2017, 04:33 PM
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Old 01-05-2017, 05:57 PM
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There are two or three sides to this.

1. The gun lobby wants it. The concept is that a national law with national standards forces everyone to play by the same rules. I really can't imagine that happening, NY, Chicago/IL, CA, etc., just will simply not allow it if there is a way to prevent it. But the concept is there, just the same.

2. There is a real issue with respect to the rights of the Federal government to interfere with the ability/rights of the several states to make their own SCOTUS permitted "reasonable restrictions" on the right to keep and bear arms. A very thorny legal issue.

3. THERE IS A VERY REAL ISSUE with respect to Federal rules mandating this, that, and the other, databases, national registration, etc. Hard right wing thinkers are not overly pleased with this concept.

Notwithstanding all of the above, the Congress has the votes to pass it and I think Trump will sign it. Then NY/IL/CA and other states will sue and it will go to the Supreme Court. So let's not expect this any time soon. ICBW......
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Old 01-05-2017, 06:19 PM
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Default National Reciprocity

Every once in a while the Federal Government gets something right. Think about drivers license reciprocity. If we didn't have it you would have to look on a map or something to see if your drivers license is good in a state you are about to enter. This bill reads like your carry permit , like your drivers license, would be good in every state. Of course, you have to follow the rules of the road or face the consequences. Carrying would be the same. The states could not make laws to restrict out-of-staters with out restricting in-staters.
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Old 01-05-2017, 06:35 PM
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I don't care if the NRA, GOA or if Heston rises fron the grave and endorses it.

Under no circumstances will I support any opportunity for Chuck Schumer and the rest of the gun-grabbers in Washington to be meddling with anything to do with my Tennessee carry permit.

No matter how well meaning... The Feds have no business fooling with this, it's an issue for the states. And the opportunity for unintended consequences is enough to reject it out of hand. No thanks.

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Old 01-05-2017, 07:00 PM
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How does everyone else feel about it?
In my original post I asked the above question. I thank everyone for their input and impressions.

I also stated in the 1st post I didn't want Fed involvement. I also understand as Watchdog has basically pointed out they are already involved just thru the act of proposing this bill. I'm with ChattanoogaPhil, I don't want the Fed messing with my NC permit. I'm sure I would feel different if I lived in a more restrictive state. But I don't.
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Old 01-05-2017, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by snuffy51 View Post
Just sit back and watch.
And states rights from both sides can be argued.The first battle of the Revolutionary War started when the British ordered the colonists to "lay down your arms" and they pretty much said "come and take them" and take a guess what happened then. After the war, the Constitution was written, By the People, For the People and was ratified by a majority the States to protect All the people from government, foreign or domestic. And I seem to remember something about "The Right to keep and bear Arms" shall not be "infringed". More than a few states have already figured that out, and the people in those states made it happen. For those who think all the law abiding people should be disarmed, they should be offered a free ticket to anywhere it is already that way. Another strong right we have is our votes, and I sure hope ya'll use it. Crooks and bad guys aren't going to follow the law anyway. I am NOT political and the above is what I feel.
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Old 01-05-2017, 07:06 PM
shawn mccarver shawn mccarver is offline
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Originally Posted by TeaDub View Post
This appears to be the text of the bill in it's current form.

https://hudson.house.gov/uploads/Con...0of%202017.pdf
I read that, and I like it. I hope it passes, but introduction of a bill in Congress is light years from passage. Let us hope it passes.
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Old 01-05-2017, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by shawn mccarver View Post
I read that, and I like it. I hope it passes, but introduction of a bill in Congress is light years from passage. Let us hope it passes.
Contact your congressman and tell him/her to sign on.
and spread the word to family, friends and anyone else who will listen.
Blue states are controlled by the big cities and even folks in those urban areas are starting to wake up.

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  #35  
Old 01-05-2017, 07:47 PM
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Everybody needs to remember that LEOSA, a national carry law with fairly simple parameters, is not administered the same way in every state. Just sayin' . . .
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Old 01-05-2017, 08:06 PM
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This won't affect your state permit or the process at all...

It's just a big reciprocity agreement.


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Old 01-05-2017, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
Everybody needs to remember that LEOSA, a national carry law with fairly simple parameters, is not administered the same way in every state. Just sayin' . . .
True, however, EVERY rare municipal/state action taken so far against LEOSA was either dropped or overturned by the Federal Circuit Courts.
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Old 01-05-2017, 08:52 PM
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In my original post I asked the above question. I thank everyone for their input and impressions.

I also stated in the 1st post I didn't want Fed involvement. I also understand as Watchdog has basically pointed out they are already involved just thru the act of proposing this bill. I'm with ChattanoogaPhil, I don't want the Fred messing with my NC permit. I'm sure I would feel different if I lived in a more restrictive state. But I don't.
Dan, the thing of it is, a lot of people seem to be getting upset over something that hasn't even happened yet. I think the bill went to committee. If it has, it'll probably sit there for who knows how long. It may not even make it out of committee...may not even be brought to the floor for a vote. May not pass if it does. If it does, it still has to pass the Senate. And so on and so forth. This bill's so far up in the air, it's in geosynchronous orbit over Washington.

Even if it becomes law, it may bear little or no resemblance to the bill as it's written right now.

The bottom line is...no one has a clue what's gonna happen with this.

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I don't care if the NRA, GOA or if Heston rises fron the grave and endorses it.

Under no circumstances will I support any opportunity for Chuck Schumer and the rest of the gun-grabbers in Washington to be meddling with anything to do with my Tennessee carry permit.

No thanks.
We're all free to voice our opposition to this bill in any way we see fit, but fact is, Congress really doesn't care if you support it or not. You and I don't get to vote on it...they do. You can say "no, thanks" all you wish...if it becomes law, it becomes law, period.

If it eventually does become law (I'm not holding my breath), it'll probably be challenged in court every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

That'd be something to see, though, wouldn't it...ol' Heston climbing up out of the grave, a rusty and pitted gun clutched in what's left of his cold dead hand? Bet that'd make a heck of a bumper sticker! Whew.
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Old 01-05-2017, 09:17 PM
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True, however, EVERY rare municipal/state action taken so far against LEOSA was either dropped or overturned by the Federal Circuit Courts.
Can you carry 15 round mags into Illinois or New Jersey or Massachusetts from out of state?

Edit: Or California, where it is now a felony to possess a 15 round magazine?
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Old 01-05-2017, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
Can you carry 15 round mags into Illinois or New Jersey or Massachusetts from out of state?
I'm not LEO but there are no mag round limit restriction's in Illinois since the CCW passed.
I only brought the gun I wouldn't miss if the Ill State Police shook me down.
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Old 01-05-2017, 09:36 PM
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I'm not LEO but there are no mag round limit restriction's in Illinois since the CCW passed.
I only brought the gun I wouldn't miss if the Ill State Police shook me down.
ispcapt, a member here and retired Illinois State Police Captain, has a different opinion. Magazines can be restricted locally, by city or county ordinance . . .

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You should have stopped when you wrote "we are not exempt from magazine limits". LEOSA does not exempt from mag limits. LEOs/retirees are limited to whatever the state or local govt limits on mag size. It doesn't matter what you qualified with or anything about what you carried on the job. Read LEOSA. It says nothing at all about such. LEOSA doesn't care what you carried on the job nor if what you carry now is substantially identical. None of that is anywhere in LEOSA.
Here's the thread, from last year:

Federal License to Carry?
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  #42  
Old 01-05-2017, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
ispcapt, a member here and retired Illinois State Police Captain, has a different opinion. Magazines can be restricted locally, by city or county ordinance . . .



Here's the thread, from last year:

Federal License to Carry?

The Illinois handgun mag restriction was done away with when the CCW law was passed. That being said Illinois has no preemption law on the books at the moment.

A federal carry permit and national reciprocity are two very different animals.



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Old 01-05-2017, 10:04 PM
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Think about drivers license reciprocity. If we didn't have it you would have to look on a map or something to see if your drivers license is good in a state you are about to enter.
It's an interesting metaphor, save for the fact that DL reciprocity is a compact between the various states that participate, some states to lesser degrees than others. The Feds aren't the controlling body. You do have to "look on a map" in some instances. For example, try getting a speeding ticket in OH with a MI drivers license - not a pleasant exchange in that instance.
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Old 01-05-2017, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by younggun22 View Post

A federal carry permit and national reciprocity are two very different animals.



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Agreed. The devil we know has multiple interpretations among the various states. The devil we don't yet know is another story . . .
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Old 01-05-2017, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
Can you carry 15 round mags into Illinois or New Jersey or Massachusetts from out of state?
Where are you going with this? Didn't I agree with your original post regarding LEOSA? I believe my exact wording was "True"?
After agreeing with you, I simply expanded on the LEOSA cases brought forward in several courts, in which LEOSA has pretty much trumped State and municipal statutes. I honestly think some people just want to swing at other people to the point that anyone's point is lost in the posturing. I am a full-time LEO in Massachusetts. I am certified by the Mass State Police to teach civilians gun safety/laws for their firearms licenses. I am a certified Municipal Police Training Council instructor in police firearms. I am also an MSP Certified LEOSA instructor. So what? I'm not a prosecutor, or a legislator, or even anywhere near perfect. I can't possibly know all the minutia regarding every state law and every possible situation. Active vs. retired LEO have subtle differences. I do know this much, I can travel through all three of those states right now with a fifteen round mag. I will probably swap out hollow points for ball ammo in New Jersey though, LOL!!! Peace!
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Old 01-05-2017, 10:14 PM
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Agreed. The devil we know has multiple interpretations among the various states. The devil we don't yet know is another story . . .

This devil seems relatively straight forward.

This is a reciprocity agreement and you will need to follow all state laws.

Not sure what all the hoopla and apprehension is about.




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  #47  
Old 01-05-2017, 11:53 PM
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Try to read up on California firearm law.
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Old 01-06-2017, 12:09 AM
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Try to read up on California firearm law.
I sure would like to, but I'm 71 years old now, and I'm not sure that I have enough years left to make it through!!!

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Old 01-06-2017, 07:57 AM
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Where are you going with this? Didn't I agree with your original post regarding LEOSA? I believe my exact wording was "True"? . . . I will probably swap out hollow points for ball ammo in New Jersey though, LOL!!! Peace!
That ^ ^ ^ was where I was going. Even a federal law that says you can carry pretty much what you want isn't honored in some states . . .
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Old 01-06-2017, 09:29 AM
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That ^ ^ ^ was where I was going. Even a federal law that says you can carry pretty much what you want isn't honored in some states . . .
And that's why the power to regulate firearms should be taken out of the hands of the states even if it means a constitutional amendment. That probably wouldn't fly but it would be the only way for all states to have the same laws and keep certain municipalities from stripping the rights of gun owners down to nothing. That practice certainly hasn't helped the crime statistics in those municipalities.
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