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Old 01-07-2017, 11:25 AM
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Are you comfortable carrying only a 5-6 shot revolver? I have a snubbie I carry the most often and shoot it well. I also have a Glock 19, Glock 26, Smith 65 3" and Ruger LCP. But it is the Ruger LCR .357 carrying .38 Gold Dot S.B. that I usually grab. I live a very boring life style and realize statically I am more likely to be injured driving to the range than taken out by a nut case. And the risk of one or two bad guys doing the traditional "bad guy thing" has got to be much greater than being at the mall with the nut armed with the AR or AK semi-auto rifle. Having said all that it seems our world has changed over the last several years and not likely to get better anytime soon. So back to my question, assuming you have been carrying one revolver are you rethinking that decision regardless of the amount or reloads you are carrying? Two revolvers, revolver and small auto like LCP, higher capacity semi-auto? I can carry the G 26 easier than two J frames and have one extra round with a fast reload from a G 19 mag. I don't shoot the 26 as well as the LCR but I haven't practiced as much either, and shoot it well enough. But not as comfortable or convient to carry as the LCR. Frankly don't like the G 26 trigger but I'm a range shooter trigger snob.
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Old 01-07-2017, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by bowzette View Post
Are you comfortable carrying only a 5-6 shot revolver?
Depends on where I'm going. 5 shots in the cylinder and two speed strips in the pocket can save a lot of lives.
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Old 01-07-2017, 11:37 AM
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Yes. Same chance of winning the lotto as being in a jihad event.
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Old 01-07-2017, 11:43 AM
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Well as I'm not a LEO and best bet will never shoot my CCW in anger I feel I'm well armed. If I do pull and shoot best bet it will be more like inches in distance not feet. I should score a very good hit and as most times its a one on one I should do well.

The ultra rare Radicals Attack while possible could happen and my first instinct is to find cover. Return fire at that point should be very deliberate and even then will probably be relatively close distances (no more than 50-60')

I just switched from a BG.380 to a Ruger LCR.38 (both were pocket carry!). and feel well armed. Note that is for casual everyday carry, going into the city or if more serious problems are going on, I will be carrying a .45 in a IWBH
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Old 01-07-2017, 12:04 PM
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Yep... not a J-frame.... but I left the house this morning with just my EDC for the last 27 years a Smith 3913 w/ flush fit mag and an extra mag...... 7+1,+8.

Yesterday when asked; "How to you sort out the "bad guys" from the good?"...... a Commentator (IIRC a former Police Chief?) stated; "We treat them all like they could be "bad guys" until we know they aren't!"

Got me rethinking .....
1) about being at an "incident" site holding/having a gun when the Police arrive...........
2)stopping a shooter vs. engaging in a protracted gun fight.
3) the whole "run,hide, fight" and/or ALICE active shooter programs

Last edited by BAM-BAM; 01-07-2017 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 01-07-2017, 12:54 PM
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I have been rethinking my carry weapon as of late. A couple of weeks ago both banks I go to were robbed within minutes of each other, I missed the excitement by 5 minutes, While traveling down to Phoenix for a Ranger/Coyotes hockey game last week, the police had at least 3 gas station quick stops taped off due to armed robberies, all within one mile of each other. I'm starting to feel that my choice of a five or six shot revolver is becoming inadequate. I live in a great community, but as we all know crime travels.I guess I need to buy a holster for my nightstand Glock 19

Last edited by apollo99; 01-07-2017 at 12:55 PM.
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Old 01-07-2017, 01:16 PM
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When I first started carrying, I used a 380 auto with 7 round magazine. Then I went for a S&W 9mm with 2 15 round magazines. Now I carry a S&W M&P 45 with 2 extra 10 round magazines. My view is stop a perp with 1 or 2 shots.
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Old 01-07-2017, 01:28 PM
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I don't have my concealed carry permit. I was thinking about attending a class this weekend, but my son asked me to wait until he could go with me. He plans to carry his Colt Delta Elite 10mm. He also has a double stack Taurus PT-111 9mm that is really fairly small, but holds 12 rounds.

My choice will likely be a smaller Ruger LC9 or Springfield XDS 9mm. I might try the S&W 1911, but I suspect it will be too big. My son is bigger than me and has more room to hide his.
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Old 01-07-2017, 03:54 PM
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Yes, it does look like Planter's is having a bumper crop, and their stocks appear to be ready for a long run. Do I feel that I need a higher degree of firepower to counter Planter's Premium? Not really.

While I believe that the disturbed and unstable are more easily influenced, I feel that they are more likely to strike alone, due to their natural distrust of others. Personally, I feel that the disturbed and unstable will be more inclined to strike in the free fire zones established by the government, as demonstrated by the incidents at schools and theaters. In these instances, I would still place my trust in a J frame.

I still feel that Jihadi John and his associates are a greater threat than Planter's best!
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Old 01-07-2017, 03:56 PM
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It all comes down to this: Carry what you are most proficient with. If that time comes where you need to stop a bad guy (or Gal) from doing you or yours harm, you will be most successful with the weapon you train with the most. If that happens to be a 5 shot revolver, so be it. Better to be proficient with a small revolver than to be only so-so with a high capacity semi-auto.
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Old 01-07-2017, 04:02 PM
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Retired LEO. I carry a CS 45 + 3 extra magazines, for a total of 25 rounds of 165gr Hydra Shok. I have no rotation when off of my property, I have carried this pistol for over 30 years. I know everything about it. I know where the round will hit, which is the important thing.

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Old 01-07-2017, 04:54 PM
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YES-
Went from a S&W 342PD to a S&W CS9D a couple years ago. Now I'm working towards carrying a newly purchased S&W 1911PD.
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Old 01-07-2017, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain TMD View Post
It all comes down to this: Carry what you are most proficient with. If that time comes where you need to stop a bad guy (or Gal) from doing you or yours harm, you will be most successful with the weapon you train with the most. If that happens to be a 5 shot revolver, so be it. Better to be proficient with a small revolver than to be only so-so with a high capacity semi-auto.
I'm going with the Captain here.
I was thinking of switching from a 5 shot snubby to a higher capacity semi. But my 442's been my companion for many years and it also happens to be my favorite range gun. I'm very familiar and comfortable with it.
Instead of switching guns, I'm thinking of making a double speedloader holder for my belt instead of speed strips in my pocket.
Yes, I've had lotsa practicing doing reloads with both.
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Old 01-07-2017, 05:45 PM
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After seeing Snubbyfan's leather setup, I think I'm going to have to have him make me another holster but this time with a belt to match. Darn you Snubbyfan !!!!
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Old 01-07-2017, 05:47 PM
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I generally carry a 3.3" .45, but a 3" .357 7-shot revolver is a frequent alternative. Either one would be effective at close range, but I would feel more comfortable taking a 25 yard shot with the revolver. The latter might be better in the event of an active shooter situation, or for barrier penetration.
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Old 01-07-2017, 06:19 PM
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I'd suggest 2 courses of action for the OP. First buy some ammo and learn the art of aiming. Then he should stop watching films on TV where the actors practice the art of spray and pray. Pretty simple, really. If someone is shooting at your or into the crowd, take careful aim. If the pressure is too much and you can't aim, don't waste the ammo shooting at the bad guy. You'll just give away your position and he may identify you as a threat. I'm guessing he's a better shot.
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Old 01-07-2017, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rburg View Post
I'd suggest 2 courses of action for the OP. First buy some ammo and learn the art of aiming. Then he should stop watching films on TV where the actors practice the art of spray and pray. Pretty simple, really. If someone is shooting at your or into the crowd, take careful aim. If the pressure is too much and you can't aim, don't waste the ammo shooting at the bad guy. You'll just give away your position and he may identify you as a threat. I'm guessing he's a better shot.
In addition to what rburg said, remember that if you can't walk the walk, do not fire aimlessly... if you hit an innocent, the cops will have no mercy on you.
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Old 01-07-2017, 07:03 PM
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@snubbyfan,

That is a gorgeous pancake holster and belt. Is it your own creation or from a commercial operation? I would love one like that for my 36-6!
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Old 01-07-2017, 07:09 PM
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@snubbyfan,

That is a gorgeous pancake holster and belt. Is it your own creation or from a commercial operation? I would love one like that for my 36-6!
My own creation. I'm on disability and leatherwork's a relaxing hobby and good therapy for my hands.
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Old 01-07-2017, 07:15 PM
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I applaud your creation! Sadly, I can appreciate your position, since I have been disabled for almost 10 years now. Back when the dinosaurs roamed, I did some leather work when I was in Boy Scouts, and I know that I wouldn't have the patience to create a holster like that, plus I wouldn't know where to go for the leather!

Out of curiosity, do you make goods for others?
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Old 01-07-2017, 07:16 PM
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I'm reasonably proficient with a Colt 1911: either a Commander or full size in 45 acp.

I don't need more than the 8 rounds available with a 7 round magazine.

If I can't solve a problem with the number of rounds in the gun, I'm in a situation more ammo won't help.

I've never heard of a civilian situation in which more than a few shots were necessary, let alone a reload.

If anyone can point to such an event, I'll reconsider.

If I went to a crime scene or to participate in an arrest in an official LEO capacity, I'd carry an extra magazine : an additional 7 or 8 rounds.

Never in a civilian capacity.
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Old 01-08-2017, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rburg View Post
I'd suggest 2 courses of action for the OP. First buy some ammo and learn the art of aiming. Then he should stop watching films on TV where the actors practice the art of spray and pray. Pretty simple, really. If someone is shooting at your or into the crowd, take careful aim. If the pressure is too much and you can't aim, don't waste the ammo shooting at the bad guy. You'll just give away your position and he may identify you as a threat. I'm guessing he's a better shot.

So Burg .... your saying my tried & true method of shutting my eyes, holding my Glock 19 sideways and shooting as fast as I can while screaming like a little girl is not tactically sound !?!

As Andy once said to Barney, " You beat all, you know that ?!?"

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Old 01-08-2017, 10:48 AM
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If 5 rounds isn't enough you better carry an AK. Sorry but it isn't like in the movies where 10 bad guys can't hit one good guy standing in the middle of the street, but the good guy kills all ten bad guys that are running or have cover.
I stay out of high crime gang infested areas so I figure my LCR 5 shot 357 will be enough. If it isn't then I will probably end up dead anyway. This isn't the movies.
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Old 01-08-2017, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
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I've never heard of a civilian situation in which more than a few shots were necessary, let alone a reload.

If anyone can point to such an event, I'll reconsider.
The Armed Citizen – A Five Year Analysis
Reloading was required in only 3 incidents. One of those involved killing an escaped lion with a .32 caliber revolver, which was eventually successful after 13 shots.
It isn't that only "a few shots were necessary," it is the average encounter is 2.2 shots. The most shots fired in that study of 482 incidents was 20.

The study does not include data on incidents where the armed defenders were unsuccessful... Maybe they didn't bring enough ammo?

Last edited by Win94ae; 01-08-2017 at 11:59 AM.
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Old 01-08-2017, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by bowzette View Post
Are you comfortable carrying only a 5-6 shot revolver? I have a snubbie I carry the most often and shoot it well. I also have a Glock 19, Glock 26, Smith 65 3" and Ruger LCP. But it is the Ruger LCR .357 carrying .38 Gold Dot S.B. that I usually grab. I live a very boring life style and realize statically I am more likely to be injured driving to the range than taken out by a nut case. And the risk of one or two bad guys doing the traditional "bad guy thing" has got to be much greater than being at the mall with the nut armed with the AR or AK semi-auto rifle. Having said all that it seems our world has changed over the last several years and not likely to get better anytime soon. So back to my question, assuming you have been carrying one revolver are you rethinking that decision regardless of the amount or reloads you are carrying? Two revolvers, revolver and small auto like LCP, higher capacity semi-auto? I can carry the G 26 easier than two J frames and have one extra round with a fast reload from a G 19 mag. I don't shoot the 26 as well as the LCR but I haven't practiced as much either, and shoot it well enough. But not as comfortable or convient to carry as the LCR. Frankly don't like the G 26 trigger but I'm a range shooter trigger snob.
I suppose it depends on where you live.

I'm a civilian and live in a medium sized city. The metro area has about 1 million people. For about 20 years there's been an ongoing territory battle between the Crips and the Bloods in low income African American neighborhoods. Also, in the last few years it looks like (based on the news) there's a turf war starting in the low income Latino community between MS13 and some spin off franchise of Sinaloa cartel.

What's changed here recently is the crime and violence from those groups is moving out to what had previously been considered "safe" suburbs. Seems to me like it's mostly kids working their way into gangs.

Other than getting killed in a car accident or dying from a heart attack, my biggest risk isn't ISIS, an ISIS wanna-be, or a mall mass-shooter. It's getting caught up with a 15 year old wannabe gang banger trying to make a name for himself at a suburban gas station/convenience store, the ATM, or by car jacking an old guy like me. For me, I think 5 or 6 rounds will still work for that.

That's how I see my threats anyway.

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Old 01-11-2017, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rburg View Post
I'd suggest 2 courses of action for the OP. First buy some ammo and learn the art of aiming. Then he should stop watching films on TV where the actors practice the art of spray and pray. Pretty simple, really. If someone is shooting at your or into the crowd, take careful aim. If the pressure is too much and you can't aim, don't waste the ammo shooting at the bad guy. You'll just give away your position and he may identify you as a threat. I'm guessing he's a better shot.
I doubt that. I've popped my share of primers.
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Old 01-11-2017, 02:41 PM
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My view is stop a perp [or beast] with 1 or 2 shots.
This ^^^^^

That and where I have chosen to live are why my J-frame [or my X-frame] is just fine.
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Old 01-11-2017, 03:10 PM
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I carry to protect myself and my family, period. I don't have the training or desire to get into a shootout with terrorists. If I find myself in that situation - God forbid - I hunker down and wait. If I have to shoot I will but I'm not running towards the bad guys with gun blazing trying to be a hero. I figure if I can't get the job done with 5 or 6 rounds I've probably already lost.
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Old 01-11-2017, 03:25 PM
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Comfortable ? Yes.

I carry a 3" model 64 every day. It happens to be what I shoot best...and like the best. I practice drawing from concealment, snap shooting at various distances, fast reloads, as well as normal shooting....all the time. My shooting practice consists of single action, double action, "double tap" shooting and rapid fire, all at varying distances and target sizes.

I make no extravagant claims. But, given my age, etc....I am about as prepared as I can be. That, in my opinion, is more important than what actual hardware one carries.

So yes, I am comfortable with only a lowly 6-shot, 38 spl. revolver.
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Old 01-11-2017, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
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......
If I went to a crime scene or to participate in an arrest in an official LEO capacity, I'd carry an extra magazine : an additional 7 or 8 rounds.

Never in a civilian capacity.
There is one reason I disagree with that. I haven't carry a semi-auto for a long time, but when I did, I always carried a spare magazine. Not because I was worried about running out of ammo, but because the pistol has a weak point which the revolver does not share: you can accidentally lose your entire load by pushing the mag release unintentionally. Hypothetical? No.

In the video below, an Oregon State Police trooper's life was probably saved because the perp accidentally dumped his mag after the first few shots; you can see him come back and pick it up. The trooper was wounded, the perp found dead by the side of the freeway a few miles away.

If it can happen to a bad guy with military training, it can happen to you. Not a problem with a revolver.

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Old 01-11-2017, 03:36 PM
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Default I used to discount......

......multiple bad guys and shootouts longer than 10 seconds as being highly unlikely. Like a lot of things, events are forcing me to change my mind. Any public gathering is a target.
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Old 01-11-2017, 03:55 PM
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Carry the MOST powerful weapon that you are comfortable with and accurate with as sadly, should something unpleasant occur it will happen very fast and you will have to react as fast or hopefully faster. Always strive to avoid but you may not have that luxury one day.
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Old 01-11-2017, 05:11 PM
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When many folks I know in the LE field start to debate off-duty & retirement weapons (as retirement age for another generation approaches ), inevitably the topics of caliber and capacity understandably arise. We all think about such things, at one time or another.

When these conversations occur while we're at the range, standing around the cleaning stations or armory, then it's often a simple matter to continue them downrange, putting everyone's favorite "answers" to the test, the test being running some fast and demanding drills.

Personally, I tend to put a lot of emphasis on making the first few hits as accurate (and effectively placed, anatomically), rapid and controllable as physically possible, pushing myself within my skillset envelope.

Yes, bigger guns are often easier to run in most situations. Easier to control. Calibers and their generated recoil forces can matter, too.

When someone can consistently get those first few critical shots placed on a threat target in a second or 2, putting them in anatomical areas on a threat target which would usually contain critical tissues, structures and organs in people, I usually give them a lot of leeway in deciding for themselves what they like to carry and shoot.

Sometimes, when I'm considering a threat/risk assessment for where I plan to go and engage in my normal activities, I may decide to belt on one of my many 9's, .40's or .45's. I spent a lot of years having to carry similar guns on-duty, though, and I enjoy being able to carry less "gear" the longer I'm retired.

That means my 5-shot snubs and couple of LCP .380's have been seeing a lot more carry time as retirement weapons. It also means they've seen their fair share of qual/training & general practice time on the range, and to remind me of their practical limitations compared to larger, duty-size handguns.

It's all about risk assessment and making choices. I don't "live a carry lifestyle" (I dislike that expression, BTW). I carry a concealed retirement weapon as a dedicated defensive weapon, sure, but I don't "feel naked" when I'm unarmed for some particular reason.

If someone thinks they need to carry a bigger caliber, or more rounds, to offset a concern regarding their skillset and their ability to run their guns under stress and demanding conditions, maybe they ought to reevaluate what it is they think they're trying to address and "solve".

Get everything squared away with the gear-user, and then consider the gear against the anticipated role it may be required to serve. That's all it is ... gear.

I've seen my fair share of people (LE and private citizens with CCW licenses) who only had confidence in their weapon-handling and shooting abilities when they were able to use a specific gun, or maybe a couple guns. Is the problem with all the other guns they don't have confidence in being able to use ... or is it with their training, skillset and mindset?

Typically, when someone asks me if I think they'd be better prepared to face some deadly force situation by carrying a different gun (caliber, ammunition, magazine capacity, etc), I ask them if they think they'd be "better prepared" if they invested the attention and focus on themselves, instead of thinking to rely on just some specific piece of gear.

Things can happen to gear when nasty situations occur. Gear can't think. Gear can't apply previously learned skills to dynamic, chaotic and rapidly evolving situations. Gear can't apply tactics to unexpected situations. Gear can't use judgment to make good decisions.

Where do they really want to put their emphasis when it comes to doing everything they can to enhance their potential for survival?

No perfect answers, of course. TANSTAAFL.

FWIW, I've seen many a person who I'd rather have at my side, even if only armed with a 5 or 6-shot revolver, if I were find myself being propelled through some unexpected doorway into Harm's Way, than many other people I've seen who might be armed with gee-whiz, super hi-cap pistols.
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Old 01-11-2017, 05:18 PM
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As a general rule I am totally happy carrying a snubbie K frame. The two that I routinely carry are quite accurate, I can hit with them at distance, and I do not expect, usually, to encounter an entire jihadi team. Sometimes I still carry a M642. However, when I go someplace that I consider to be comprised of so many targets of opportunity that jihadists and other maniacs adore then sometimes I carry a higher capacity 9mm pistol and maybe even a spare magazine. Then, again, sometimes I stick to the K frames and a speedloader.
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Old 01-11-2017, 05:34 PM
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How many rounds do you need to stop a "lone wolf" terrorist? If 5 isn't enough, get some marksmanship training.
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Old 01-11-2017, 05:38 PM
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Before carrying a defensive revolver, go to the range and shoot it at 25 yards double action in controlled pairs. You should be able to keep both rounds of every pair in the scoring rings of a B-27 target. Then, shoot the revolver without a rest at 100 yards. Practice this until you know just how much of the front sight you need to see over the rear to hit the target regularly (3 out of 6 rounds or better).

The above is predicated on the fact that you should be carrying a quality revolver that will shoot nice, tight groups from a rest. "It shoots better than I do!" You should practice until you shoot as well as it can.
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Old 01-11-2017, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Before carrying a defensive revolver, go to the range and shoot it at 25 yards double action in controlled pairs.
Quote:
The above is predicated on the fact that you should be carrying a quality revolver that will shoot nice, tight groups from a rest. "It shoots better than I do!" You should practice until you shoot as well as it can.
This is related to the original question, I guess. But I am not sure why you recommend 25 yard shooting. Unless I am up against a rifle at distance I don't imagine I will ever be in such a long distance gunfight. Not that I can't hit a B-27 target at 25 yards, I can, but who cares?

I can shoot nice, tight groups at normal gunfight distances and I'm confident I can hit a B27 target at 25 yards. Not to be argumentative but I wouldn't waste pistol ammo trying to hit targets at 100 yards with a 2" fighting revolver. Sure, it can be done, but you have to launch those rounds like you are almost aiming at the sky. I know from experience what it takes to hit a distance target with a 4 5/8 inch single action revolver (.45 Colt, 140 yards, one shot to show off, hit it, done and done) but you have to be rock steady and aim very HIGH
and it is really just for laughs and bragging rights. It's not a good plan for a gunfight.

it is definitely great for bragging rights, of course, but 75 feet is quite a ways away, never mind 300 feet or more, and it is unlikely in the extreme that I would ever find myself in such a situation. If I do then my antagonist is going to probably have a lofty perch, likely with good concealment, and a rifle, and I'm going to want concealment as much if not more than being able to exercise my 75 yard shooting prowess with a 2" combat revolver.

There is nothing wrong with having that skill and knowing what your combat revolver will do but to what purpose? There is virtually no chance that anyone will find themselves in that situation*. If you do then the interesting thing is that the antagonist is going to be pretty shocked at receiving return fire such that he might retreat or look for a different vantage point, thereby enabling your escape.

*The only time I can recall such a situation was last year's attack on Dallas police officers. The shooter did, indeed, have a lofty perch, and a rifle, and not a single police round hit him as I recall. He was killed with a remote robot bomb. All you can do with a handgun in that situation is send suppressing fire. Unless you are making a movie, of course.

Two or three other possible, similar scenarios:

*It is likely that the theater shooters in France in the not too distant past had 25 ore more yards between them and their victims but I do think they were in a balcony and, of course, no French person had a gun, anyway.

*The Colorado theater killer had a rifle, it was dark, and he was near the back of the theater. Same problems in re distance and the lack of guns in the audience.

My whole point being I won't be practicing combat shooting at 100 yards and my 25 yard shooting will be to verify my ability hit and then I'm done with that "skill".

I don't disagree that those are quality skills to have; I just view them as unnecessary in today's terrorized world. If you're going to stop an attack you will very likely be up close and personal.
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Old 01-11-2017, 06:48 PM
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How many rounds do you need to stop a "lone wolf" terrorist? If 5 isn't enough, get some marksmanship training.
It took 10 shots to bring down the attacker at the mall in MN a few months ago. The attacker was wielding a steak knife and the shooter was an off duty LEO and a competitive shooter. This was at close range and I believe 4 shots totally missed and 1 was a leg shot. Just sayin...
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Old 01-11-2017, 07:55 PM
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My view is the enclosed hammer snub revolver can do certain things no autolader can. IMO, there is no more effective firearm in the context of extreme close-quarter/handgun combative type scenarios.

When out and about, the situations I'm likely to encounter and have no other choice but to engage will be reactive close-quarters. I'm fairly comfortable with carrying a snub in such instances. Odds and the stats back me up.

Home defense I view very differently. Avoiding and/or leaving isn't usually an option. Since I'll have to make a stand and defend my family, I like to have high capacity weapons available, although a snub is still better for certain circumstances where a close-quarter struggle is likely. I have seen a few civilian home defense involving a high number of rounds fired, but not so with concealed carry in public. I'm talking absolutely necessary defensive responses rather than proactive engagement.

These terrorist/active shooter incidents are high profile and get a lot of media attention, but they are still astronomically rare. You have a better chance of getting struck by lightning. Would you feel the need to strap a lightning rod on your back after seeing a news story about someone getting struck by lightning? The most effective response to an terrorist attack/active shooting would generally simply be fleeing the scene as quickly as possible, but it ultimately depends on the precise circumstances. Close-Quarter defense scenarios are not rare and preparing for them should take priority in determining our gear, weapons and the bulk of our training methods.
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Old 01-11-2017, 08:04 PM
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...inventor of the New York Reload...



...truth is stranger than fiction...



...more Hollywood...

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Old 01-11-2017, 08:19 PM
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[/img]
I don't like the idea of those revolvers pointed right at Big Jim and the twins....
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Old 01-11-2017, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ISCS Yoda View Post
This is related to the original question, I guess. But I am not sure why you recommend 25 yard shooting. Unless I am up against a rifle at distance I don't imagine I will ever be in such a long distance gunfight. Not that I can't hit a B-27 target at 25 yards, I can, but who cares?

I can shoot nice, tight groups at normal gunfight distances and I'm confident I can hit a B27 target at 25 yards. Not to be argumentative but I wouldn't waste pistol ammo trying to hit targets at 100 yards with a 2" fighting revolver. Sure, it can be done, but you have to launch those rounds like you are almost aiming at the sky. I know from experience what it takes to hit a distance target with a 4 5/8 inch single action revolver (.45 Colt, 140 yards, one shot to show off, hit it, done and done) but you have to be rock steady and aim very HIGH
and it is really just for laughs and bragging rights. It's not a good plan for a gunfight.

it is definitely great for bragging rights, of course, but 75 feet is quite a ways away, never mind 300 feet or more, and it is unlikely in the extreme that I would ever find myself in such a situation. If I do then my antagonist is going to probably have a lofty perch, likely with good concealment, and a rifle, and I'm going to want concealment as much if not more than being able to exercise my 75 yard shooting prowess with a 2" combat revolver.

There is nothing wrong with having that skill and knowing what your combat revolver will do but to what purpose? There is virtually no chance that anyone will find themselves in that situation*. If you do then the interesting thing is that the antagonist is going to be pretty shocked at receiving return fire such that he might retreat or look for a different vantage point, thereby enabling your escape.

*The only time I can recall such a situation was last year's attack on Dallas police officers. The shooter did, indeed, have a lofty perch, and a rifle, and not a single police round hit him as I recall. He was killed with a remote robot bomb. All you can do with a handgun in that situation is send suppressing fire. Unless you are making a movie, of course.

Two or three other possible, similar scenarios:

*It is likely that the theater shooters in France in the not too distant past had 25 ore more yards between them and their victims but I do think they were in a balcony and, of course, no French person had a gun, anyway.

*The Colorado theater killer had a rifle, it was dark, and he was near the back of the theater. Same problems in re distance and the lack of guns in the audience.

My whole point being I won't be practicing combat shooting at 100 yards and my 25 yard shooting will be to verify my ability hit and then I'm done with that "skill".

I don't disagree that those are quality skills to have; I just view them as unnecessary in today's terrorized world. If you're going to stop an attack you will very likely be up close and personal.
Get caught out in the street, parking lot, or even a mall, and you may see the reasoning for being able to hit a target at 25 yards, especially if the shooter is armed with a rifle. The 100 yard shooting is not as important, but being able to suppress a shooter's target selection process could save lives. Here, a police officer was potentially saved by a citizen's long range handgun marksmanship: Citizen shoots trailer park gunman, saves Texas officer

If you don't think it is an important skill, don't practice it. Since I don't routinely carry a rifle or shotgun, I'm going to practice at long range as well.

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Old 01-11-2017, 08:43 PM
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Hay, nice thread, I to like revolvers, I have several js, many Ks, several n'ssnubbys, and ended up with a LCR 38 a lot, recently got a CA bulldog 44spl. Started carrying it a lot with 2speedstrips. But I keep going back to a glock, got a 19&23. With a crossbreed and 2 full size spare mags it's comfortable and 40cal and don't feel under gunned with plenty of spare ammo.
Good luck
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Old 01-11-2017, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by elm_creek_smith View Post
Get caught out in the street, parking lot, or even a mall, and you may see the reasoning for being able to hit a target at 25 yards, especially if the shooter is armed with a rifle.
Would you be standing still and returning fire or would you be moving? If you would be moving, do you practice shooting at targets 25 yards away while GOTX?

Considering the odds of needing to make long range shots with a pistol, I think very little training time should be devoted to it. If someone wants to practice it, so be it, but with training time and energy being limited, it's makes sense to me to allocate the majority of my time to working on skills that have a higher probability of being applicable in likely defense scenarios and keep the long range work to a minimum.
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Old 01-12-2017, 03:16 PM
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Great responses. Exactly the discussion I hoped to have instigated :-)
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Old 01-12-2017, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Get caught out in the street, parking lot, or even a mall, and you may see the reasoning for being able to hit a target at 25 yards, especially if the shooter is armed with a rifle. The 100 yard shooting is not as important, but being able to suppress a shooter's target selection process could save lives. Here, a police officer was potentially saved by a citizen's long range handgun marksmanship: Citizen shoots trailer park gunman, saves Texas officer

If you don't think it is an important skill, don't practice it. Since I don't routinely carry a rifle or shotgun, I'm going to practice at long range as well.
I totally agree with this concept. In the VERY unlikely event that one gets caught out in a parking lot and there is a shooter with a rifle the MOST important thing you can accomplish is suppressive fire. A rifleman who is ducking and weaving isn't shooting. The life you save may be your own.

I didn't say I can't hit at 25 yards or never practice it. If I had to anticipate that scenario and HAD to bring a handgun I'd carry my 6" M586 and I would hit my target. As that gun is not concealable I'm stuck, as Clint Smith says, with a compromise. But I CAN hit a target at distance; I'll do it a time or two at the range to be sure but, after that, I stick to the CQB practice as that is more likely.

But suppressive fire is a useful concept. One should not shirk a gunfight against a perp due to distance. We are sheepdogs, not sheep, and we train so we can fight - and survive.
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Old 01-13-2017, 12:31 AM
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...don't think you can carry a back up?...

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Old 01-13-2017, 02:02 AM
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Quote:
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I generally carry a 3.3" .45, but a 3" .357 7-shot revolver is a frequent alternative. Either one would be effective at close range, but I would feel more comfortable taking a 25 yard shot with the revolver. The latter might be better in the event of an active shooter situation, or for barrier penetration.
I don't know if you're an LEO, or where you live; but for me I think if there is an active shooter situation more than a few yards away from me, or especially one that calls for barrier penetration, I almost certainly am not the one to resolve it. For one thing, if it's any distance away (like twenty-five yards, for example, seventy-five feet) I may not be entirely clear on just what the situation is and whether it involves a plainclothes cop. And for this elderly civilian, the odds against my encountering such a scene are astronomical.

I'm not and never have been a police officer. I have a cell phone and the ability to be a good witness and reporter. I carry a J-frame with which I'm quite content, though I've considered adding a Ruger LCP as a hip pocket backup.

I'm just an old player of the percentages who has a pretty clear view of his limitations in the hero business.
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Old 01-13-2017, 03:36 AM
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I don't know if you're an LEO, or where you live; but for me I think if there is an active shooter situation more than a few yards away from me, or especially one that calls for barrier penetration, I almost certainly am not the one to resolve it.
Using a handgun--any handgun--to deliberately engage a guy with a long gun is stupendously unwise. It's really only a defense when you have complete surprise on your side, and even then, the chances are not great.

There's a reason why law enforcement agencies spend thousands of dollars to put patrol rifles in cars.
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Old 01-13-2017, 06:31 AM
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There have been "protests" resulting in large crowds stopping cars and dragging the occupants out and killing them.
I have gone from a S&W M38, to a Kahr 9094N and I am moving to a SWaMPy 9c, fanny pack carry, left front, cross draw. Easily accessed while sitting. Hearing protection is in the console, several kinds.

13 plus 17 rounds in the second magazine means 30 rounds to discourage the attack.

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