First Gun Help

[Druggist50]

Hey everyone! I am new to this forum and this is my first post. I am in the hunt for my first handgun as a gift to myself after graduating pharmacy school. At this point, I want to get something that is close to an "all-around" handgun as possible. It will see a lot of range time and will be carried, but not daily. I really liked the 686 + 3 inch, but never had a chance to put it in a holster and conceal it. I also have shot and really enjoyed the 1911 platform and have easily concealed a commander sized full steel gun. The weight was not an issue and disappeared in an iwb Milt Sparks holster. I would also consider concealing a full-sized 1911 as well since the extra 3/4" won't likely bother me.

If you guys could only have one (to start), what would you recommend? I appreciate any feedback you have.

[SAFireman]

I carry a Colt Commander and J frame pretty much all the time (one or the other).

I have a 686 3" and I don't really carry it much, if at all. I guess the carry side of the equation will decide a lot for you. The more concealable it is, the less fun it will be at the range.

[Rpg]

The Colt Commander (light weight) is what I carry most of the time.

The 1911 platform is the easiest to shoot well that I know.

A good deal of gunhandling and practice is necessary to MASTER the manual of arms (different than just learning to shoot well).

The last handgun I'd sell would be one of my Colt 1911's.

[Arik]

This is an impossible answer as you will most likely change your mind once you start carrying. It may be too heavy, too awkward, too small, too big....etc...etc.

The extra length may not seem much but it could be depending on how you dress. Especially if you carry all day. It's not just the length of the barrel and slide but also the grip.

I prefer semi autos to revolvers.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[bigwheelzip]

Congratulations on graduating, and on your choice of reward.

My "all-around" choice (and EDC) is a CZ PCR, for it's DA/SA decocker w/o safety action. I also love my 3" 686+ as an "all-around" revolver.

[coachray]

If I could only have one I would probably take my M&P shield 9mm.

[Fishinfool]

If you plan on carrying for personal SD and range use, it's really all about personal preference. I would strongly recommend going to a range that rents guns, and trying as many makes and models as you can to see what really feels right to you. 1911's and Revolvers are both good range guns, but differ considerably, with a 1911 probably being a better concealed carry choice, as long as you are willing to really learn its manual of arms.

That said, if you plan on carrying at work as a Pharmacist, I would really look hard at a mid sized, high capacity 9mm loaded with good SD ammo. You have to consider your increased threat level in that position, and the risk of having to face more than one, strung out, armed attacker. A mid sized 9mm, like a Glock, SIG, or S&W M&P also makes for a nice carry and range gun as well. As easy to carry and fun to shoot revolvers can be, I would feel safer with more firepower if working behind the counter in a Pharmacy. JMHO

Larry

[clang444]

If you could only have one, something like a Glock 19 is probably the best all around gun. 9 mm is affordable for practice and has adequate stopping power.

There are several other good similar guns aroung the G19's size, but it's hard to go wrong with a 9mm Glock.

full disclosure - I love all steel guns, but I do own a G19 and G17. I also own a first gen Walther P99 that is similar in size to the G19 and I actually like better.

[jyork08854]

My first gun was the full sized M&P 9mm. Love it for the range but a little large for carrying. I just bought a 9mm Shield to carry.

[Rastoff]

Originally Posted by Druggist50

I really liked the 686 + 3 inch,...

I also have shot and really enjoyed the 1911 platform...

Both of these are excellent choices for a first gun.

Nothing is simpler than a revolver. Easy to operate and easy to clean. No parts to lose. Small enough that it can be concealed if set up properly.

The 1911 is my preferred choice. I have many thousands of rounds through my 1911s and they just work.

Barrel length is not what makes a gun hard to conceal. Grip length is more of a factor. Still, with the right holster and belt the 1911 is easy to carry.

[Rustyt1953]

Welcome.

Frequent a rental range and shoot as many that appeal to you as you can. Research your favorites and trust your inclinations.

There are so many good choices out there.

Best of luck as I really envy your exciting new journey.

[AlHunt]

Glock it. Straightforward, highly reliable, work a day pistol, easy to master, inexpensive, high capacity and holster wear won't break your heart. Soulless and ugly but it works.

[FifthWheel]

Welcome, 9mm in a 1911 platform. Relatively cheap to shoot, good for self defense, and you'll eventually be expanding your collection.

[Druggist50]

Thanks for all of the replies! Here's another question for you: if I end up going with the 686, what do you recommend for a holster? I would think iwb would be tough to do with the cylinder, but owb would be harder to conceal well in the summer. I live in Minnesota, so at least 50% of the time owb would be easy with a fleece or jacket, but the warmer months may be more difficult.

[lrrifleman]

Congratulations on your upcoming graduation from pharmacy school.

I gather that you have no experience with a revolver, but you have fired a 1911. I will limit my answer to address only the pistols that you have identified. I have fired a 1911 for almost 40 years, and revolvers for almost as long. I am comfortable with the operation of both. When I carry my 1911, it is with a Browne and Pharr belt clip. When I carry my 3" J frame, it is currently with an Uncle Mike's IWB holster, but a belt slide is on order. I have a S&W 686+ Deluxe 3" on layaway that will also be carried in a belt slide.

I love shooting my 1911s, but the drawback (for me) is policing my brass. That is the advantage of a revolver for me, since I reload 98% of what I shoot. Shooting a 1911 requires learning only one method of operation, while a revolver requires two. Since you have experience with the 1911 platform, I would suggest that you lean in that direction for your first handgun.

[mrchuck]

Question: Will you be "armed"when working behind the counter filling Rx's??
Many Pharmacist's these days are.
Lot's of hold-ups

[Will Carry]

Welcome to the forum and the wild wild world for handguns. Congratulations on finishing Pharmacy School. You have very good taste. A 686+ 3" may be the best self defense handgun ever made. The .357 magnum round is the king of one shot stops. You get that Smith and Wesson revolver and learn how to shoot it.

I call it the wild wild world of handguns because the choices for concealed carry are mind boggling. Everyone has an opinion on what is best and it is often confusing and maybe a little intimidating. Never buy a cheap handgun. A revolver like the 686+ 3" will never loose value. Never buy a new model handgun, like the Remington R51 or the Taurus Curve. Make sure the gun you buy has a proven record. I will not give my opinions on what brands I think are better than others. I will say that I carry a Ruger LC9s, Sig P-238, Smith and Wesson model 36 and Glock 19 most of the time but not all at once.

[gman51]

If you can carry the 686 comfortably all day then go for it. It will be the most dependable gun you can carry. For me my 627-5 is to big and heavy to carry all the time. I carry the Ruger LCR 357 loaded with 38+P.

A good J frame with a good trigger is about as good as it gets for all day carry and safety. If you want to KISS then the revolver is the way to go. Of course the truth is we all have our own likes or dislikes.

I have yet to see any semi auto not fail but I have many revolvers that have never failed.

[Eddie Southgate]

I carry a full size 1911 or a Colt Cobra . I don't recommend a cocked an locked 1911 style auto for a first carry handgun. Double action auto in 9mm or above ( .40 I really like ) would be a lot safer for a first. Save the 1911 for later and then only after you have handled and shot it a bunch. I never have been able to shoot DA autos so I stuck with the Cobra .38 and carry 2 speed loaders in my pocket.

If you have a gun shop close that has a range ask if they rent handguns for you to try. Try several styles and calibers if they do . That's really the only way to decide what you will be best off with.
What I like may not be what suits you best. Good luck and Congratulations on your graduation.

Eddie

[31FordA]

If I could have only one gun it would be a 3" Ruger SP-101. Probably the best all around compromise in a revolver. The 686 is an excellent revolver, but you may find it tiresome to carry for extended periods of time.

As far as holsters go for the revolver I would think a strong side owb holster by a quality maker would be a good start. I have worn a revolver at the 4 o'clock position on my belt for about 20 years, ranging in size from a 4" Model 19 to a 2" 340 M&P. Off the shelf Galco makes some quality holsters, and DeSantis is pretty good also. There are some really excellent custom makers also. I can personally attest to the quality of the Lobo holsters.

Finding what works for you will be a trial and error process. Congrats on graduating, and good luck with whatever you buy.

[bigwheelzip]

Originally Posted by Druggist50

if I end up going with the 686, what do you recommend for a holster?

This Sourdough Pancake is excellent and with the optional straps can be IWB. Make sure you get a very sturdy holster belt as well.

Sourdough Pancake™- Leather Concealment Holster

[Druggist50]

Originally Posted by mrchuck

Question: Will you be "armed"when working behind the counter filling Rx's??
Many Pharmacist's these days are.
Lot's of hold-ups

No I will be working at a hospItal on the various floors away from the public

[Rustypipes12]

Congratulations, my son is a pharmacist and I have an appreciation for how much work is involved! My first handgun was a Remington R1 enhanced. I'll never get rid of it except to give my son. It's a dream to shoot. A little heavy for concealed carry for most people. I'd probably recommend a colt defender now a days but go with what feels right to you. I'm a big believer in the .45 and .44 calibers.

[Druggist50]

Originally Posted by bigwheelzip

This Sourdough Pancake is excellent and with the optional straps can be IWB. Make sure you get a very sturdy holster belt as well.

Sourdough Pancake™- Leather Concealment Holster

Can this holster be worn both iwb and owb if purchased with the iwb straps?

[Wise_A]

I have a saying.

"Never use one gun where two will do."

Depending on your needs, I would strongly suggest splitting your budget between two guns--perhaps the same caliber, perhaps even the same gun in two different sizes.

Consider a compact but comfortable to shoot pistol for CCW, if you must have only one. Your choices are numerous these days--Ruger LCPs and LC9s, Smith and Wesson Shield 9mm, Glocks, Sigs, etc. Take your pick, there's hardly a bad one out of the bunch, and some can be had for under $300.

If you're determined to have a range gun on top of that, then the 686 will fit the bill.

The point is, if you buy one gun for double duty, you do not get one gun that does it all. If one gun did, then many of us would not have so many fine guns (what a shame). What you get is one gun that does two things badly.

So get one that does one thing well, and then get another.

[Gpsman]

"When" I carry my 3" 686+, I do so in a Lobo Enhanced Pancake.

I carry a 1911 most of the time...

[bigwheelzip]

Originally Posted by Druggist50

Can this holster be worn both iwb and owb if purchased with the iwb straps?

Yes it does both. I leave mine setup for IWB and use a Galco Combat Master for OWB.

The Galco is for my 2.5" 686, so the tip of the muzzle peeks out with the 3", but it draws fine.

[Donn]

As you can see, you've opened a bag of snakes here. I'm an M&P man myself, but my advice to you would be go with your original choice. I'd suggest a Commander. You'll likely have to run it in, 200 or so rounds to ensure dependable function. The revolver would be good to go out of the box. Good luck.

[Grayfox]

I want to get something that is close to an "all-around" handgun as possible.

That would be a good .357 Magnum double action revolver. Safe, simple and pretty much instinctive. You can shoot anything from light .38 target ammo to heavy bullet full power magnums depending on your needs. The 686 you mentioned would be an excellent choice.
For myself, I prefer the slightly smaller and lighter K-frame guns for carry. You might want to take a good look at a 2 1/2" Model 19 , 66 or similar. My most carried revolver is a 3" Model 13.

I'm a 1911 guy, but I always caution new shooters that it takes a great deal of time and practice to master. You MUST get to the point where you automatically release the thumb safety on the draw without having to think about it. You must also master that short, light trigger pull to prevent an accidental discharge when under stress.
I consider the 1911 to be the finest defensive firearm ever made. But it ain't for beginners or those unwilling to put in the time and practice to use it effectively.

Comfortable, effective concealed carry is much more a function of the holster and belt than the gun. I want to stress than a good quality gun belt is an absolute must. Never skimp on carry gear.

And if you're like most of us, more than likely, you'll end up going through several guns and holsters over the next couple of years. Everybody is different. Our exact needs are different. I strongly suggest that you look around. Handle and if possible shoot as many guns as you can get your hands on before making a final decision.
Suggestions and advice are good as it can help steer you in the right direction. But in the end, only you can figure out the right gun and gear for you.

[TX-Dennis]

Every one will have a different opinion, of course. My first hand gun was a Bersa Thunder .380. I still have it years later with about 10,000 rounds down the barrel.

Second handgun was a Taurus 9mm semi. Still have it with about 8000 rounds so far.

My current carry is a Ruger LC9s. It's small and easy to carry either on the belt or in a pocket. It is, though, not fun to shoot. It's quite reliable and accurate, but it hurts my hand a little due to its very narrow hard plastic grip. I have several others as well, but this is my main carry gun.

I'm currently lusting after a CZ 75BD Rami. I have one CZ pattern pistol, and it is very accurate and easy to shoot but rather too large for comfortable carry. The Rami looks like an ideal carry size pistol, and it should be a soft shooter if my other is any indicator.

Holster wise I'm currently enjoying a hybrid IWB holster by Everyday Holsters called the mini tuck or something like that. It's very comfortable for all day carry. I also have a DeSantis Nemesis for pocket carry of the Ruger and OWB polymer holsters for the Ruger, the Taurus, Sig P938 and the CZ clone along with an Alien Gear IWB for the CZ clone. No holsters for the Bersa or either of my revolvers as I choose not to carry those.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

[BAM-BAM]

Lots of different; but, all good advice..... but as you can see..... what one carries is really a very personal choice.

A number have recommended a Glock...... good gun; I've tried to like them 4 times in the form a Model 19s and 26s.

I don't "like" carrying "cocked and locked"......but do own and shoot 1911s and Browning HPs. If I was to carry this way...... I'd do it with a 9mm Browning Hi-Power (15+1) over a 1911.

For autos I like the Smith 3913/14 family for everyday carry; or something a bit bigger, 6906 or even a 915 or other alloy frame 59xx...... but for shooting the 5906 all steel is hard to beat.

I had a 3" 586 years ago ........ but it would be left behind in favor of a 4" 686........ I also found the 3" a bit bulky and heavy for concealed carry vs. a 3" 66.

IMO the best all around utility handgun would be a 4" 686.... with a couple of speedloaders.38 shotshells and wadcutter target loads to full bore .357s

But for concealed carry I prefer a 3" K-frame...... I'd be fine with a 2 1/2" model 19 or 66 .357 .... even a 2-4" .38 models 10/64 would be OK.

Tryout as many as you can........ and remember the first gun ..... will only be the first of many!!!!!!

[Druggist50]

Thanks for all of the input! As many of you have said, there are tons of options out there and just about as many (if not more) opinions on what to do. I just found a lgs that has a whole host of revolvers and autos to rent, so I will be off to the range bright and early tomorrow to try out a few. I am hoping to also try various gun/holster combos if they allow me to play around a bit to find something that fits

[RSanch111]

I'm guessing you're going to want to run out and buy a semi-auto pistol, but I'd get a used Smith and Wesson .38 or .357 revolver like a model 10 or Model 66, 4" or 5" barrel. You can pick them up pretty cheap. Then get a bunch of cheap .38 ammo and find someone to teach you the fundamentals of shooting. then go buy your dream gun after that.

Something like this: SMITH & WESSON 64 REVOLVER - Smith & Wesson - Handguns - Southern Ohio Gun

[Bozz10mm]

Originally Posted by Druggist50

Thanks for all of the input! As many of you have said, there are tons of options out there and just about as many (if not more) opinions on what to do. I just found a lgs that has a whole host of revolvers and autos to rent, so I will be off to the range bright and early tomorrow to try out a few. I am hoping to also try various gun/holster combos if they allow me to play around a bit to find something that fits

Be sure to come back and let us know what you decided on.

[elm_creek_smith]

"[A]ll-around" handgun? A stainless 4 inch medium/medium-large frame adjustable sighted .357 Magnum revolver with a round butt. Four inches is the shortest that can be used for hunting in Oklahoma. .357 Magnum is the most versatile handgun round available. The round butt allows the widest variety of grip options. A S&W Model 66 would be my choice since it's lighter and feels better in my hand, but there is nothing wrong with a Model 686 which is my duty sidearm. (Yeah, it's the dinosaur thing again.)

[Druggist50]

Just got back from the range! Although I didn't purchase anything, I definitely had some revelations. The following are things I discovered while at the range and lgs:

1. Damn the 686 is a nice gun! I shot through .38 and .357 and it handled everything flawlessly. The frame is beefy enough to absorb recoil, but not massive. I shot the 4" version, but at least got to handle the 3" version in the storefront. I think that length is a perfect "tweener" for what I am looking for. The only thing I am worried about with this gun is concealment. The guy at the lgs said I wouldn't have a problem making the gun disappear with my frame (I'm 6'9'' and 250 lbs). I know I can hide a 1911, but I loved the revolver

2. I don't care for the carry J-frame revolvers for the purpose I am looking for. Although a lot lighter and compact than the 686, it was not as comfortable to shoot. I have large hands and felt like I couldn't get a comfortable grip on the little guy.

3. A 1911 in the govt. or commander size would be my auto choice, leaning towards full ss chambered in either 9 mm or 45. Not much else to say here, other than great guns.

4. Trying to keep the gun price down below $900. The 686 + 3 inch was a Talo version for ~$750. The standard 1911 models were all around that $800-900 mark. The S&W PC 1911 or Wilson Combat will have to wait...

Sorry for the long post, but had a lot to say.

[BAM-BAM]

6'9" & 250....... OK...LOL.... that 3" 686 is like me carrying my 3" J-frame 60-10.

Get a good gun belt ($50-80) and a nice pancake holster ($80-100) and you're good to go...................

Check out Safariland speedloaders.............. my favorite

[gman51]

I would think the 686 3" would be the way to go if the weight doesn't bother you and you can conceal it well. Practically no worry about a jam and no worry about whether a safety is on or not when you need it quickly.
686 3" Talo for $750 is a good price.
I carry OWB because it is much more comfortable and easier quick access when needed than carrying IWB.

[bigwheelzip]

Congratulations, that's some good due diligence.

My husband is about your size (6'-7") and has no problem with CC'ing the 3" 686 using a loose shirt. I CC it also, but need a secondary cover garment, usually a vest, or use a handbag.

Also, a 125gr HP .357 is a very well regarded man-stopper. We carry Federal C357B's, unless we're woods walking.

[crazyphil]

I think you have about got yourself sold on the 686. You started with 2
excellent prospects and chose the right one. (In my opinion) Hundreds
of students on the range, over the years, have shown me revolvers have
a slight reliability advantage. When it absolutely, positively, has to go
bang, you don't want it to go click.
Put the same diligence into choosing a holster and belt. Outside the
waistband on your strong side just behind your hip is by far the best
place. 15-20 degrees butt forward tilt. 1.5" loops and 1.5" belt. There
are some good leather holster & belt makers here on the forum.
Good luck!

P. S. When you start thinking SD ammo, Remington's .357 125-Gr.
Golden Saber has been a top stopper for years and years.

[Druggist50]

Originally Posted by crazyphil

I think you have about got yourself sold on the 686. You started with 2
excellent prospects and chose the right one. (In my opinion) Hundreds
of students on the range, over the years, have shown me revolvers have
a slight reliability advantage. When it absolutely, positively, has to go
bang, you don't want it to go click.
Put the same diligence into choosing a holster and belt. Outside the
waistband on your strong side just behind your hip is by far the best
place. 15-20 degrees butt forward tilt. 1.5" loops and 1.5" belt. There
are some good leather holster & belt makers here on the forum.
Good luck!

P. S. When you start thinking SD ammo, Remington's .357 125-Gr.
Golden Saber has been a top stopper for years and years.

Thanks! I think this is the best choice right now. I have a family friend who only carries sig and colt 1911s and "couldn't imagine" carrying an L frame smith because of the cylinder width. I think I am going to follow bigwheelzip's advice and go with the simply rugged sourdough pancake holster so it can be used both iwb and owb. I really like it because it is cut to be worn crossdraw if desired.

[Druggist50]

One last thing, I promise. Coming from virtually 0 knowledge of S&W revolvers, how big of an issue is the "Hilary Hole"? I don't mean to open a can of worms, but I have seen many differing opinions regarding this. Sorry if this starts a heated debate!

[Rpg]

The IL limits the market for resale.

I, for one, won't buy one.

This isn't a function concern: it's entirely an esthetics issue.

As a result, if you resell, your IL specimen will sell for less to a narrower market than a comparable nonIL

[AlHunt]

Originally Posted by Gpsman

"When" I carry my 3" 686+, I do so in a Lobo Enhanced Pancake.

I carry a 1911 most of the time...

"When" I carry my almost 3LB 686+, it's usually in something with a handle on it.

[bigwheelzip]

Originally Posted by Druggist50

One last thing, I promise. Coming from virtually 0 knowledge of S&W revolvers, how big of an issue is the "Hilary Hole"? I don't mean to open a can of worms, but I have seen many differing opinions regarding this. Sorry if this starts a heated debate!

Nothing personal, but look through the revolver section: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-rev...-1980-present/ for commentary on the IL (internal lock) subject. There are at least two running IL commentaries active today, and probably thousands of comments in total on the subject within the section.

[Whitwabit]

Todays perp's seem to run in multiples from muggings to car jacking's your likely to have several perps involved and in the case of a wheel gun limiting one's self to only 5 or 6 shots my well be detrimental to ones health in such an instance ..

S&W compact in either 9mm or 40 S&W is one recommendation that is easily concealed for carry .. not a 1911 but the sig P226 or p229 also great guns you can't go wrong with ..

[Wise_A]

Originally Posted by Druggist50

One last thing, I promise. Coming from virtually 0 knowledge of S&W revolvers, how big of an issue is the "Hilary Hole"? I don't mean to open a can of worms, but I have seen many differing opinions regarding this. Sorry if this starts a heated debate!

It can be removed and plugged. I would personally disable it on a carry gun. It's one of those things where there's a lot of anecdotal evidence. Rather than make an argument based on facts--which can only lead to said heated debate--I will say this: simpler is always better. The fewer things there are, the fewer things that can go wrong.

Now, buying a gun with one will hurt resale. But to be frank, if you're purchasing a gun to carry, you're going to ruin its resale in the process. The finish will be worn, and you're going to inevitably bang it on stuff. The gun is going to spend many hours in a harsh environment. Don't get too attached to its investment value, and don't get anything so nice you fret over every blemish.

Originally Posted by Whitwabit

Todays perp's seem to run in multiples from muggings to car jacking's your likely to have several perps involved and in the case of a wheel gun limiting one's self to only 5 or 6 shots my well be detrimental to ones health in such an instance ..

Honestly? It's a catch-22. Or rather, a situation of perfect balance.

Most people can't execute a decent, timely reload on the range, because most people don't practice. And I'm not talking about a 15-shots-and-a-reload-in-ten-seconds-flat "timely". I mean a simple, smooth, expedient-but-not-fast reload.

Simple fact. Now, I know nobody here is like that (*wink*), but after observing nearly 100 CCW permit-seekers shooting their quals, I can honestly say that I've seen perhaps 15 or 20 competent gun handlers. And that's with lax time pressure, and mostly full-size guns.

So as a general argument--not a personal one, more on that later--I consider the magazine advantage null.

Ditto for capacity. Sure, you can carry 10 or 15 rounds in a lot of guns, but a lot of the guns you'd actually want to carry only hold 7+1 or 8+1.

The other consideration, for the oft-spoken "packs of attackers" scenario is this: how fast do you think you can shoot? Unless they're rushing you from across the football field, you might have time to address one threat, maybe two.

What people seem to believe--at their own peril, in my estimation--is that shooting will end the fight, if they have enough cartridges. What they're actually doing is shooting in order to level the playing field, so to speak, for the second half. And that second half is going to be a very nasty hand-to-hand fight. If you're lucky, you'll still have a couple rounds and a functioning gun, instead of a very poor club.

The ideal situation, by the way, is the "Wyatt Earp". That is to say, said predators see that you're armed and prepared, and decide that even if you only shoot down one of them, 66% ain't good odds.

Now on to personal arguments.

I'd go semi-auto if I seriously thought I needed it. Because it's basically a peace-of-mind item for most of us.

I'd use the semi-auto because I do make a point of practicing and being competent, so a spare magazine or two wouldn't be wasted on me. And because I would do my part to verify its reliability and maintain it, and use it in such a way as to keep it running in a fight (no contact shots, in other words).

So--on principles, it's a wash. But for practical matters, semi-autos all the way.

[Brasky]

If I could only have one handgun it would be a Glock 19. Small enough to conceal yet handles like a full size and can accommodate larger capacity magazines.

[rwt1405]

First, congrats on graduating Pharm school from a lowly Paramedic!

I would suggest either a Colt Wiley Clapp CCO (1911), and/or Ruger GP100 Wiley Clapp (it is a 3" revolver), either of which would make a great single handgun (which I could never imagine)

I have a 4" 686 and a 2 1/2" 686 (both pre-locks), but I'd carry the Ruger Wiley over either for CCW.

I refuse to purchase anything S&W, for CCW carry, with a Hillary Hole

I carry a S&W 3953 (3rd gen, great gun, purchased it new in 1991), but when I get enough rounds through, and get comfortable enough with my Colt CCO, it will be my new carry gun.

I'd like to be able to recommend a new 686 to/for you, but as for me, a IL (Hillary Hole) does not work, and I will not show any support to S&W for doing that.

[Lobster Picnic]

The 3" Ruger LCRx might be worth looking at. Light weight, rugged, great trigger, can be shot single action.

A 3" stainless steel S&W Model 60 .357 is a great all-around handgun, suitable for carry, target practice, camping, hiking, etc. Can be loaded with 180gr ammo for use in bear country.