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Old 02-16-2017, 04:20 PM
Ivan the Butcher Ivan the Butcher is offline
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Default I'd make a rotten terrorist

I just got back from visiting a friend in the hospital. While I was driving home I realized I had left my EDC in my pocket the whole time. I was armed and I didn't shoot any innocent people. I didn't terrorize any people in the name of a non-existent government. My friend is well enough to come home and I didn't even shoot him or his wife. I am a rotten terrorist!

Ivan

P.S. I had a shower this morning, so at least I'm not a dirty rotten terrorist!
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Old 02-16-2017, 04:40 PM
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I think it is called checking security. Or lack of it.
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Old 02-16-2017, 04:50 PM
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Maybe you are a "lucky" rotten terrorist.

Some states don't allow concealed carry in hospitals.
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Old 02-16-2017, 04:50 PM
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If Ohio is like some other states carrying firearm into a hospital is illegal.
In which case you're now guilty of a gun crime.
That's a least a start towards becoming a good little terrorist...
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Old 02-16-2017, 05:57 PM
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You own a firearm. Therefore, to some, you are a terrorist.
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Old 02-16-2017, 06:08 PM
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First let me state I am absolutely against criminal safe zones.I avoid them as much as possible.But there are reasons why it's illegal to carry a gun into buildings where there may be mentally incompetent people roaming around. Let alone ones that could be there because they've shown a propensity towards violence.

Just something to think about. Hospitals are a little different than retail locations,offices,etc.
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Old 02-16-2017, 06:09 PM
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I am surprised you read the 4473 form because you obviously didn't read the no guns sign at the hospital entrance. Just kidding.

Whenever I go to a hospital or nursing home I check for no gun signs. It amazes me how often the signs are practically hidden by something. I had gone into a vet office to drop off my dog. I hadn't seen the two no gun signs until my return to get my dog.

I had to laugh thinking gun signs are no protection. Goodness it was a good thing the employees didn't know I was carrying the first time or they would possibly have ran to a kennel filled with big dogs as security from me.
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Old 02-16-2017, 07:17 PM
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NO SUICIDE VEST FOR YOU!!


Seriously though, you didn't mention if the hospital was posted as no guns allowed or not. I see a bunch of angles to this.

I'm opposed to gun-free zones.

I also strongly favor personal property rights, therefore if somebody doesn't want people to bring guns into their business, people should respect that.

A hospital isn't a normal business, it's not like you can visit your friends or loved ones at the business across the street. It's also filled with defenseless people, so hospitals really shouldn't ban CCWs.

If your hospital was posted as no guns allowed, then I'm going to have to deduct points for lack of tactical awareness, and potentially making all gun owners look bad. It's like how many people show up at airports with their EDC cause "Oops, just forgot".
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Old 02-16-2017, 07:20 PM
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Default That's a laugh....

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You own a firearm. Therefore, to some, you are a terrorist.
The gun grabbers sure don't know me very well. I'd be the world's first comedic terrorist.
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Old 02-16-2017, 07:22 PM
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And last year, 3,391 people did the same as you when the went to the airport. Oops. Didn't end so well for them though.
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Old 02-16-2017, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelgunguy View Post
First let me state I am absolutely against criminal safe zones.I avoid them as much as possible.But there are reasons why it's illegal to carry a gun into buildings where there may be mentally incompetent people roaming around. Let alone ones that could be there because they've shown a propensity towards violence.

Just something to think about. Hospitals are a little different than retail locations,offices,etc.
I think there are a few buildings in D.C. that fit that description....
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Old 02-17-2017, 12:48 AM
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Not sure I'd post about it — well, I guess I would not — but I think, no harm, no foul.

I think concealed means concealed. Frightening people needlessly is, to my mind, of no value whatsoever.

And, I think, be acutely aware of metal detectors....
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Old 02-17-2017, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by wheelgunguy View Post
.But there are reasons why it's illegal to carry a gun into buildings where there may be mentally incompetent people roaming around. Let alone ones that could be there because they've shown a propensity towards violence.

Just something to think about. Hospitals are a little different than retail locations,offices,etc.

Generally in Hospitals those folks are in a locked unit.......... not so much in other buildings that come to mind!!!!!!

That said there are real issues in many ERs late at night on the weekends.

Disputes that don't get settled on the street ....have been known to spill over into an ER.... a lot of ED's now have metal detectors, lock boxes and armed security..........there are some ER's in "The Burgh" I wouldn't go to without a gun!!!!!


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Old 02-17-2017, 10:27 AM
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My dear wife accidentally carried her gun, knife and pepper spray into a local Social Security office. The security guard seemed to think she looked suspicious because she had a "angry demeanor". He asked if she had any weapons and turned a ghostly white when she answered yes.
He escorted my Mrs. back to her car and made sure she locked everything up. The police were not called because the guard is supposed to ask everyone entering the lobby if they have any weapons, and he blew it!
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Old 02-17-2017, 10:57 AM
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My Son is working at the Cleveland Clinic and You have to go through a Metal Detector to get in.
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Old 02-17-2017, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwheelzip View Post
And last year, 3,391 people did the same as you when the went to the airport. Oops. Didn't end so well for them though.

A San Antonio congressman got popped at the airport security checkpoint with a handgun in his carry on a few years ago. He introduced legislation to change the offense and it was passed a few years ago. Texas Code now reads...

(e-1) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a)(5) that the actor:
(1) possessed, at the screening checkpoint for the secured area, a concealed handgun that the actor was licensed to carry under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code; and
(2) exited the screening checkpoint for the secured area immediately upon completion of the required screening processes and notification that the actor possessed the handgun.
(e-2) A peace officer investigating conduct that may constitute an offense under Subsection (a)(5) and that consists only of an actor's possession of a concealed handgun that the actor is licensed to carry under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, may not arrest the actor for the offense unless:
(1) the officer advises the actor of the defense available under Subsection (e-1) and gives the actor an opportunity to exit the screening checkpoint for the secured area; and
(2) the actor does not immediately exit the checkpoint upon completion of the required screening processes.
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Old 02-17-2017, 12:46 PM
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At least you didn't suffer from premature detonation (H/T Achmed, and Jeff Dunham).
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Old 02-17-2017, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelgunguy View Post
...there are reasons why it's illegal to carry a gun into buildings where there may be mentally incompetent people roaming around.
And if you can't maintain possession of your concealed firearm, maybe you shouldn't be carrying at all. Hmmm...

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Originally Posted by steamloco76 View Post
My dear wife accidentally carried her gun, knife and pepper spray into a local Social Security office.
This is straight up illegal: TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 44 > 930
I'm glad the guard handled it in the way he did though. That's how things like this should be handled.

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Originally Posted by TXSWFAN View Post
A San Antonio congressman got popped at the airport security checkpoint with a handgun in his carry on a few years ago. He introduced legislation to change the offense and it was passed a few years ago. Texas Code now reads...
That's interesting, but it doesn't matter what Texas code reads. This is a federal crime: 49 CFR 1540.111(a) While there may be a viable and legal defense for such act in Texas state court, there is no such defense in federal court. Two completely different courts.
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Old 02-17-2017, 02:09 PM
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Hey, there's ways of saying things without being condescending. Lighten up. No one is bragging about getting away with something illegal. These were mistakes.
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Old 02-17-2017, 02:15 PM
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Hey, there's ways of saying things without being condescending.
No condescension intended by me. I was just posting the laws pertaining to what some people said. I don't know how to post something that simple any other way.
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Old 02-17-2017, 02:39 PM
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It should be obvious to most competent minds that one should usually carry in a hospital. However, when one is going to undress and lose full control of his clothing, it is probably not a good idea to be abandoning a weapon, particularly a loaded gun. Also, don't get a loaded gun anywhere near an MRI machine. Look it up yourself. Meanwhile, DON'T!
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Old 02-17-2017, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by e3mrk View Post
My Son is working at the Cleveland Clinic and You have to go through a Metal Detector to get in.
The last time I was at the Cleveland Clinic I didn't see Metal Detectors. Is that new or only in some buildings?
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Old 02-17-2017, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by TXSWFAN View Post
A San Antonio congressman got popped at the airport security checkpoint with a handgun in his carry on a few years ago. He introduced legislation to change the offense and it was passed a few years ago. Texas Code now reads...

(e-1) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a)(5) that the actor:
(1) possessed, at the screening checkpoint for the secured area, a concealed handgun that the actor was licensed to carry under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code; and
(2) exited the screening checkpoint for the secured area immediately upon completion of the required screening processes and notification that the actor possessed the handgun.
(e-2) A peace officer investigating conduct that may constitute an offense under Subsection (a)(5) and that consists only of an actor's possession of a concealed handgun that the actor is licensed to carry under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, may not arrest the actor for the offense unless:
(1) the officer advises the actor of the defense available under Subsection (e-1) and gives the actor an opportunity to exit the screening checkpoint for the secured area; and
(2) the actor does not immediately exit the checkpoint upon completion of the required screening processes.

Yikes! In plain English what does that say? Actor?Hollywood?

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Old 02-17-2017, 05:39 PM
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And if you can't maintain possession of your concealed firearm, maybe you shouldn't be carrying at all. Hmmm...
I think you are really missing the point. That's like saying, "Prisons don't let plain clothes LEOs carry concealed because the don't know how to retain their weapon".
Hmmm....
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Old 02-17-2017, 07:40 PM
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I do not listen or adhere to "Gun Safe Zones"...
I carry everywhere....banks, government buildings, airports, etc.

Its a legal risk I take, and I understand the possible consequences....but that decision is mine to make, ..not someone elses.
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Old 02-17-2017, 07:51 PM
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What they don't know can't hurt nobody but that is dependent on who and what you are though.
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Old 02-17-2017, 08:09 PM
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The person will still not be able to fly that day. That comes under the TSA jurisdiction, not the police. Also, the TSA will assess a pretty hefty civil fine.

I know that because a friend of mine used to use his range back as a carry on. Or the other way around. Once he forgot that he hadn't cleared it out and was stopped at TSA. Fortunately for him, the sheriff's deputy knew him and escorted him back to his truck in lieu of arresting him. He had to drive 16 hours straight through to get to his destination because the TSA said he couldn't fly that day.

About a month later, he got a letter from the TSA with a notice of forfeiture. He was able to negotiate that down from about $5,000.00 to under a thousand and work out a payment schedule.

I think for Christmas I might buy him a real range bag.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TXSWFAN View Post
A San Antonio congressman got popped at the airport security checkpoint with a handgun in his carry on a few years ago. He introduced legislation to change the offense and it was passed a few years ago. Texas Code now reads...

(e-1) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a)(5) that the actor:
(1) possessed, at the screening checkpoint for the secured area, a concealed handgun that the actor was licensed to carry under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code; and
(2) exited the screening checkpoint for the secured area immediately upon completion of the required screening processes and notification that the actor possessed the handgun.
(e-2) A peace officer investigating conduct that may constitute an offense under Subsection (a)(5) and that consists only of an actor's possession of a concealed handgun that the actor is licensed to carry under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, may not arrest the actor for the offense unless:
(1) the officer advises the actor of the defense available under Subsection (e-1) and gives the actor an opportunity to exit the screening checkpoint for the secured area; and
(2) the actor does not immediately exit the checkpoint upon completion of the required screening processes.
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Old 02-17-2017, 09:46 PM
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The person will still not be able to fly that day. That comes under the TSA jurisdiction, not the police. Also, the TSA will assess a pretty hefty civil fine.

I know that because a friend of mine used to use his range back as a carry on. Or the other way around. Once he forgot that he hadn't cleared it out and was stopped at TSA. Fortunately for him, the sheriff's deputy knew him and escorted him back to his truck in lieu of arresting him. He had to drive 16 hours straight through to get to his destination because the TSA said he couldn't fly that day.

About a month later, he got a letter from the TSA with a notice of forfeiture. He was able to negotiate that down from about $5,000.00 to under a thousand and work out a payment schedule.

I think for Christmas I might buy him a real range bag.
That sucks...when I accidentally did the same thing(range bag), they let me put my gun in my truck, they let me fly, and about a month later I got a letter saying that I violated TSA rules, but they felt the warning was enough...

....maybe it was because I am retired military.

I did get to meet quite a few new people that day...lol

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Old 02-18-2017, 01:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelgunguy View Post
I think you are really missing the point. That's like saying, "Prisons don't let plain clothes LEOs carry concealed because the don't know how to retain their weapon".
Hmmm....
No, I get the point. You can't equate a hospital with a prison. In a prison every inmate is looking to take something from you. In a hospital it's rare that you'll meet one of the so called "mentally incompetent" people. And if you did, surely you can keep your gun from one person who's unstable. I re-assert, if you can't deal with that one person, maybe you shouldn't be carrying or maybe that's why you need the gun in the first place.

In fact, I suspect the chances of meeting up with one of these people, who might be an issue, is much higher on a city street.
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Old 02-18-2017, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug627 View Post
You own a firearm. Therefore, to some, you are a terrorist.
I was at the shop yesterday, and there was a funny sign up that I'd never noticed before.

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Old 02-18-2017, 08:22 AM
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I was at the shop yesterday, and there was a funny sign up that I'd never noticed before.

That I like! I will get some serious mileage out of this one. Thanks for posting it.
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Old 02-18-2017, 04:01 PM
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I think all the hospitals here have metal detectors I believe at all the entrance you can get into the hospital from .. all other doors are emergency exits only and clearly marked ..

Here they would have called the police and you would have had a nice visit with them where they took your weapon and charged you .. no excuse will get you out of it .. forgetting is not a valid reason and then a visit from the State Police asking for your permit which would be revoked .. Here the sign is the law .. there have been a couple of instances in the area where someone entered a no gun zone and their permit was revoked !! 7 cc license from the county I live in have been revoked .. 2 reports have been in the local paper where someone carried in a no gun zone ..
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Old 02-18-2017, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by codenamedave View Post
NO SUICIDE VEST FOR YOU!!

Seriously though, you didn't mention if the hospital was posted as no guns allowed or not. I see a bunch of angles to this.

I'm opposed to gun-free zones.

I also strongly favor personal property rights, therefore if somebody doesn't want people to bring guns into their business, people should respect that.

A hospital isn't a normal business, it's not like you can visit your friends or loved ones at the business across the street. It's also filled with defenseless people, so hospitals really shouldn't ban CCWs.

If your hospital was posted as no guns allowed, then I'm going to have to deduct points for lack of tactical awareness, and potentially making all gun owners look bad. It's like how many people show up at airports with their EDC cause "Oops, just forgot".

Looks like you fell off both sides of the fence ..

You state you don't like gun free zones and your next statement is your in favor of them in businesses if the owner wants ..

so what are you really in favor of ?? just curious ..

Edit .. I have heard others say the same thing and have wondered what they really mean because the two statements seem to contradict each other ..

Last edited by Whitwabit; 02-18-2017 at 04:16 PM.
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Old 02-18-2017, 04:15 PM
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Ivan, have you been flirting with the neighbor's goats? No? I think youre all set then.
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Old 02-18-2017, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Whitwabit View Post
I think all the hospitals here have metal detectors I believe at all the entrance you can get into the hospital from .. all other doors are emergency exits only and clearly marked ..

Here they would have called the police and you would have had a nice visit with them where they took your weapon and charged you .. no excuse will get you out of it .. forgetting is not a valid reason and then a visit from the State Police asking for your permit which would be revoked .. Here the sign is the law .. there have been a couple of instances in the area where someone entered a no gun zone and their permit was revoked !! 7 cc license from the county I live in have been revoked .. 2 reports have been in the local paper where someone carried in a no gun zone ..
And Chicago is safer because because a "legal" CCW inadvertently carries a handgun into a hospital? Go figure....

If Chicago spent more time trying to get guns away from the unlawful criminal element instead of harassing law-abiding citizens, this may be time better spent and the citizenry would all be better off....
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Old 02-18-2017, 05:16 PM
Whitwabit Whitwabit is offline
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Originally Posted by MetalMan View Post
And Chicago is safer because because a "legal" CCW inadvertently carries a handgun into a hospital? Go figure....

If Chicago spent more time trying to get guns away from the unlawful criminal element instead of harassing law-abiding citizens, this may be time better spent and the citizenry would all be better off....
there is no harassment .. its the law .. when you take the Illinois conceal carry course 8 hours is on the law .. no one has an excuse to violate it as its written ..

When you sign your license your saying you will abide by the Illinois Conceal Carry Law !! Hospitals and Doctor offices are restricted and written in the law .. so they don't even have to be posted ..
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Old 02-18-2017, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by steamloco76 View Post
My dear wife accidentally carried her gun, knife and pepper spray into a local Social Security office. The security guard seemed to think she looked suspicious because she had a "angry demeanor". He asked if she had any weapons and turned a ghostly white when she answered yes.
He escorted my Mrs. back to her car and made sure she locked everything up. The police were not called because the guard is supposed to ask everyone entering the lobby if they have any weapons, and he blew it!
Yikes....
Nothing like a federal felony charge to start the day off right. Things could've gone a lot worse. I'm glad she got the right guard.
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Old 02-18-2017, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Whitwabit View Post
there is no harassment .. its the law .. when you take the Illinois conceal carry course 8 hours is on the law .. no one has an excuse to violate it as its written ..

When you sign your license your saying you will abide by the Illinois Conceal Carry Law !! Hospitals and Doctor offices are restricted and written in the law .. so they don't even have to be posted ..
Certainly, I don't disagree......as a law abiding CCW, I take my privilege very seriously and know where I can and cannot legally carry......but people do sometimes make mistakes. I am not condoning someone who purposely chooses to violate the law but I do believe there is a right way and a wrong way to handle each individual situation both by the offender and by enforcement officials.

I was simply venting as I am terribly dismayed every time that I read about the number of shootings resulting in death and injury in the City of Chicago. I travel to Chicago fairly frequently and my permit is not allowed there. If there was any one place that I would be more comfortable by having my firearm accessible, Chicago would be it. I would not even begin to assume that I have an answer to the problems in Chicago, but I wish there was more visibility to work which, I sincerely hope, is being done behind the scenes.....

Be safe out there.....

Last edited by MetalMan; 02-18-2017 at 06:16 PM.
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Old 02-18-2017, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by MetalMan View Post
Certainly, I don't disagree......as a law abiding CCW, I take my privilege very seriously and know where I can and cannot legally carry......but people do sometimes make mistakes. I am not condoning someone who purposely chooses to violate the law but I do believe there is a right way and a wrong way to handle each individual situation both by the offender and by enforcement officials.

I was simply venting as I am terribly dismayed every time that I read about the number of shootings resulting in death and injury in the City of Chicago. I travel to Chicago fairly frequently and my permit is not allowed there. If there was any one place that I would be more comfortable by having my firearm accessible, Chicago would be it. I would not even begin to assume that I have an answer to the problems in Chicago, but I wish there was more visibility to work which, I sincerely hope, is being done behind the scenes.....

Be safe out there.....
The problem is whether you carried on purpose disregarding the law or it was truly an accident .. authorities can not tell or not know the difference because in both cases they will say it was accidental ..

so both are prosecuted according to the law with no exceptions ..

The killings in Chicago mostly done by bangers will not change till the people there decide there have been enough children killed and start turning in those responsible to law enforcement .. until that time comes law enforcement will never be able to combat the killings as they are now covered for by the public !!

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Old 02-19-2017, 12:29 PM
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There is a simple truth here; carrying a gun is a risk. You risk having it taken. You risk carrying it accidentally where it's illegal. For some people it creates back trouble. There's always the risk of negligent discharge while handling a loaded gun (it has to get in the holster somehow). There are probably more, but you get the point.

Personal safety is about managing risk. We would be safe if we locked ourselves in a house made out of 1/4" steel and never left. That's not possible so, we take on some risk when we leave to go out in public. Some carry a gun to help minimize the risk should we be assaulted.

Accidentally carrying into a place where it's illegal is a risk. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Stating that you accidentally carried there is a very weak defense. Most of the time it won't work. How many have received a speeding ticket even though they told the policeman it was unintentional?

I'm glad the OP posted this. It helps us all become more aware. It's a small wake up call to keep us from getting complacent. I'm glad the security guard handled it like he did. On a different day, with a different guard, it may not have ended well.
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Old 02-20-2017, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
No, I get the point. You can't equate a hospital with a prison. In a prison every inmate is looking to take something from you. In a hospital it's rare that you'll meet one of the so called "mentally incompetent" people. And if you did, surely you can keep your gun from one person who's unstable. I re-assert, if you can't deal with that one person, maybe you shouldn't be carrying or maybe that's why you need the gun in the first place.

In fact, I suspect the chances of meeting up with one of these people, who might be an issue, is much higher on a city street.
You don't even realize that you just proved you don't get it.
Good luck to you.
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Old 02-20-2017, 01:13 PM
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You don't even realize that you just proved you don't get it.
Good luck to you.
OK, I come here to learn. Clear it up for me.
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Old 02-20-2017, 03:48 PM
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OK, I come here to learn. Clear it up for me.
Again, good luck to you.
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Old 02-20-2017, 05:50 PM
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First let me state I am absolutely against criminal safe zones.I avoid them as much as possible.But there are reasons why it's illegal to carry a gun into buildings where there may be mentally incompetent people roaming around. Let alone ones that could be there because they've shown a propensity towards violence.
Just something to think about. Hospitals are a little different than retail locations,offices,etc.
I do not intend this to sound insulting. That argument is what I hear around WI and MN all the time. As in all the other cases where honest/sane people are prohibited from being able to defend themselves, if any of "those" people want to do violence they ignore the signs and are a danger to begin with. *I* am not. Yet I am required to make myself vulnerable, like everybody else in the hospital/clinic/facility. It is wrong.
A fact of getting older is that I visit more and more people in hospitals or other care facilities. It is dishonest of the administrations to force me to disarm.

I know a cardio nurse who works at a Milwaukee hospital. A criminal entered with his gun, no surprise, and in the course of things he grabbed a child when he realized the cops were after him. He was chased through the hospital and stopped by gunfire. My friend was told to "shelter in place," AKA "wait to be killed."

In the end, the police were excoriated for DARING to shoot the bad guy in the hospital, putting others in danger. I think there was also some territorial dispute between the police and the sheriff.

And *I* am supposed to wait for them to save me?

The ban in is pointless and stupid. As usual.
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Old 02-20-2017, 08:14 PM
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Again, good luck to you.
I don't understand the animosity.

You made a statement that people shouldn't carry in a hospital.
I disagreed and explained why.
Your response was, "You missed the point."
I responded by explaining what I thought I understood and why.
You responded, "You don't even realize that you just proved you don't get it."
So I asked you to explain it to me and all you can say is some snarky comment?

Clearly I did indeed miss your point. I thought I understood, but according to you, I don't. So, explain it.
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