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  #101  
Old 04-12-2017, 07:34 PM
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With all due respect, I'm wondering why anyone would be fearful of carrying a modern, well designed and manufactured "striker fired" pistol, like the Glock, fully loaded with a live round in the chamber?

Glocks incorporate several passive safeties including the trigger pull rating, the trigger insert and the stiker block. Safe to carry fully loaded. Will not discharge when dropped.

If the factory trigger pull rating is not heavy enough, you can always add a heavier "New York" trigger, or different connector......for up to 11 pounds if needed.
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Old 04-12-2017, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoJelly View Post
I feel sorry for all involved - and this validates my absolute rule of empty chamber outside the house if I'm carrying an auto. I suppose that habit could cost me dearly at some point - I just make it a point to never go where I would need a h/g ... even though I frequently carry one.

Edited to add: a little clarification. Doesn't take a genius to figure out high risk locations: convenience stores in general and especially after dark (even just for fuel), spray car washes after dark, any Wal-Mart on the wrong side of the tracks after 9AM, liquor stores, any mall near the wrong side of the tracks after 4PM, most of the low-end fast food places after dark. I've reached past 60, avoiding all of these places, and never had a problem. I know the tactical types are going to sneer at this - but it's worked for me so far!!
Well, if you never go where you would need a gun, an empty chamber makes sense.
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Old 04-12-2017, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Big D View Post
Regardless of the circumstances, the shooter is a pathetic, irresponsible coward. Leaving the scene and NOT being accountable makes him that in my book.

Some people should not own/carry a gun.

Be safe.
Perhaps he had to get his weed home. In which case that would make him a motivated coward.
(EDIT-I'm thinking he may have needed to change his pants!)
I wonder at what angle any particular must be dropped in order to fire. This happened at a Giant Eagle grocery store here near the Burg. It was apparently a 380 and the bullet did not exit the barrel, the floor being in the way. A couple of people were hit by debris from the tile floor. The gun owner was charged with simple assault and reckless endangerment, but pled to misdemeanor disorderly conduct at the Common Pleas level on 6/25/15.
2 injured when gun falls out of man’s fanny pack at Giant Eagle store | WPXI

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  #104  
Old 04-13-2017, 12:49 AM
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[QUOTE=ParadiseRoad;139475066]FL man accidentally shoots woman in donut shop after dropping gun (VIDEO)
He must have tried to grab it, since the glock will not fire without pulling the trigger. Just poor reporting. I see you bought a 640, excellent gun, hope it works well and you never need it, other than practice. As for the one in the chamber if you speak to a Smith or Glock armorer they could explain the inner workings of the firearms. I will not do an explanation since the armorer would do it so much better. Be Safe,
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Old 04-13-2017, 01:00 AM
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Quote:
ND: Negligent discharge. Put the blame where it belongs.
Thank you ! - I see the 'AD' words used a little too freely...
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Old 04-13-2017, 01:14 AM
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You know what, KISS!
And a revolver is just that KISS, start to think and do things is not good in a bad situation...
Most of us do not train for the worst, so go what is simple.....
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  #107  
Old 04-13-2017, 05:04 AM
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Drop-and-grab ND's have nothing to do with the style of the gun you're using, and everything to do with the idiot thing you just did.

It's common practice, and handgun sporting events, to require competitors to leave dropped guns on the ground, and wait for an RSO to pick the gun up.

This is because when you go to pick up a gun, it's at an awkward angle. You'll be embarrassed and surprised, so you won't be paying attention to what you're doing. You'll be in a hurry. It's awful easy, in those circumstances, to slip your finger onto the trigger. And in your rush and surprise, your motor control goes to hell--it's very easy to end up squeezing the trigger.

Or worse, you can grab it as it's still falling.

So at shooting events, the RSO is expected to check to see that the line is safe, take a gander at the handgun to ensure nothing's inside the triggerguard, and then carefully pick up the weapon, keeping the muzzle downrange, before unloading it and handing it to the guy that dropped it.

You hear a lot about guns going off when dropped because it's easier to say that than to admit that you were stupid and tried to grab it up. And people feel it's less incriminating.

In actual fact, I can't think of a modern firearm that isn't drop-safe by design. Revolvers, Glocks, 1911s in good working order--you could load them up and drop them all day (but don't).
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  #108  
Old 04-13-2017, 11:09 AM
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Carrying with an empty chamber? No argument from me.

If a man has come to the conclusion that he is a danger to himself and others carrying a loaded gun I'm inclined to believe him.
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  #109  
Old 04-13-2017, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoJelly View Post
A pistol with an empty chamber is still loaded if there are rounds in the magazine.

If a man (not a police officer) has come to the conclusion that he is in immediate danger everywhere he goes, and needs 24-7 nano-second access to a chambered round, I'm inclined to believe that man is dangerously out of touch with reality.
I'm certainly fine with another person carrying their firearm any way they wish. And I can understand you getting tired of being beaten up over an empty chamber.

However ... an attack is just that. An attack. And it's likely to come out of ambush where you will need the nanosecond reflex. There's just case after case after case where an attack comes in the split second when a person is walking through a doorway, getting in or out of a car or some other moment when their attention is divided.

I know it's all moot now that you've gone to a revolver but I would not count on being alert and aware enough to see an ambush coming, however small the likelihood.
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  #110  
Old 04-13-2017, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoJelly View Post
A pistol with an empty chamber is still loaded if there are rounds in the magazine.

If a man (not a police officer) has come to the conclusion that he is in immediate danger everywhere he goes, and needs 24-7 nano-second access to a chambered round, I'm inclined to believe that man is dangerously out of touch with reality.
As a former agency force on force Simmunitions instructor (now retired) I can testify to the fact that in a reactive shooting scenario, every split second counts when it comes to winning a gun battle. Cycling a slide to chamber a round is a needless and hazardous waste of time and effort that requires the use of fine motor skills.

Situational awareness plays a big role in evaluating and avoiding a threat, and everyone has to decide how they wish to carry, but real-life lessons (not just training) have repeatedly shown that in close quarters gun battles, split seconds count in bringing a firearm to bear against a lethal threat. I'm not giving a predator any advantage, if I can help it. Some might think I'm "...dangerously out of touch with reality." I simply call it "common sense."
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  #111  
Old 04-13-2017, 04:05 PM
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[quote=vipermd;139552853]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParadiseRoad View Post
FL man accidentally shoots woman in donut shop after dropping gun (VIDEO)
He must have tried to grab it, since the glock will not fire without pulling the trigger. Just poor reporting. I see you bought a 640, excellent gun, hope it works well and you never need it, other than practice. As for the one in the chamber if you speak to a Smith or Glock armorer they could explain the inner workings of the firearms. I will not do an explanation since the armorer would do it so much better. Be Safe,
I was standing beside a man at a Charleston Gun Show 20 or so years ago. He dropped a Randall Knife he was looking at. He caught it 3 times before it hit the floor. Paid the price every time. Trying to catch a falling gun oughta really be exciting!
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  #112  
Old 04-13-2017, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Hillbilly77 View Post
I'm still struggling with the idea that anybody actually patronizes Dunkin Donuts, what with their terrible coffee and mediocre doughnuts.
dunkins donuts are the best...their coffee is better than most.
starbucks ,tullys, honeydew,krispy kreme,all tastes burned to me.
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  #113  
Old 04-13-2017, 04:14 PM
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Default I am joking....

If it's really busy and you need holes in donuts ......well............
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  #114  
Old 04-13-2017, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by mrmike7189 View Post
dunkins donuts are the best...their coffee is better than most.
starbucks ,tullys, honeydew,krispy kreme,all tastes burned to me.
You obviously NEVER had a Hot&Ready Krispy Kreme straight off the glazing carousel.
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Old 04-13-2017, 04:27 PM
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Default nutsak holster?

I think the guy had it in his nutsak holster and had an itch!
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  #116  
Old 04-13-2017, 04:31 PM
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My brother recently retired from one of the intelligence agencies and moved to Colorado. He is also retired from the Air Force. He's not a gun guy, but he got his concealed carry permit. I found him a nice S&W 3953, which is about as simple as it gets for a semi-auto. I got him dummy rounds to practice with until he was comfortable handling it. He went to the range on his own, and told me he liked it.

He visited a couple of weeks ago, and was carrying it chamber empty. He said it was just more comfortable for him that way.

The reality is he lives in a wealthy ski resort town with little to no crime, and is probably ahead of 90 percent of its population by even having a gun nearby. I wouldn't carry that way, but if its how he wants to do it then its not my business. It would take him a second or two to chamber a round in the extremely unlikely event he would need to draw it. The idea a chamber-empty, magazine- full gun is useless just not true.

As for the donut guy, I would guess he picked up the gun and hit the trigger, and is probably wishing he carried chamber-empty too.
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Old 04-14-2017, 03:32 AM
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Originally Posted by sigp220.45 View Post
As for the donut guy, I would guess he picked up the gun and hit the trigger, and is probably wishing he carried chamber-empty too.
Then he's come to the wrong conclusion and shouldn't be carrying at all.
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  #118  
Old 04-14-2017, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old cop View Post
In an earlier post someone said they keep the chamber empty unless or until going into someplace that the weapon might be needed in a hurry. Several well thought out examples followed but allow me to be the voice of experience here. I've "been there" and can tell you there will not be enough time to chamber a round in an emergency. If that is how you carry you might think about a revolver. I don't mean any disrespect, just don't want to see anyone to get hurt.
Looks like he has a thread running stateing that he traded into a revolver .Good for him
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Old 04-14-2017, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by dben002 View Post
You obviously NEVER had a Hot&Ready Krispy Kreme straight off the glazing carousel.
I ran fleet managment for Krispy Kreme deliverly trucks .From Central Florida and Orlando Aera. It got to the point that my truck techs wouldn't work on trucks due to them being full of roaches. Krispy Kream wouldnt do a thing about it.
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Old 04-18-2017, 03:27 AM
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[quote=Lee's Landing Billy;139553541]
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Originally Posted by vipermd View Post
I was standing beside a man at a Charleston Gun Show 20 or so years ago. He dropped a Randall Knife he was looking at. He caught it 3 times before it hit the floor. Paid the price every time. Trying to catch a falling gun oughta really be exciting!
...would fire the gun three times before it hit the floor?
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Old 04-18-2017, 03:35 AM
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Default Game changer.....

Having kids around drastically changes the way we keep and carry guns.
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Old 04-19-2017, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Mistered View Post
Thank you ! - I see the 'AD' words used a little too freely...
You know, I see this AD vs ND thing all the time. I know it has become cool and popular to challenge each reference to an accidental discharge by calling it "negligent" but frankly, it is silliness.

An accident is "an unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury." Another definition common in the legal world is "An unforeseeable and unexpected turn of events that causes loss in value, injury, and increased liabilities that is not deliberately caused and is not inevitable."

Accidents are events. Those events may be caused by negligence, but can also be caused by recklessness, and at other times through no human action.

When a gun is discharged unintentionally and unexpectedly, it is an accidental discharge. Quite likely, it was someone's negligence or recklessness that caused that accident, but that determination requires and examination of the causation of the accident, and cannot be made simply because the accident occurred. It may well be due to recklessness (a greater degree of "fault") in which case calling it a negligent discharge mis-describes the event and gives an unwarranted benefit to whoever acted recklessly, and it also completely overlooks the possibility that there could be a non-human cause for the accident (granted, a non-human cause is highly unlikely when a gun is discharged).

Let's not abuse the English language just because it makes us sound tactical and cool. In the case at issue in this thread, the report says the discharge occurred unintentionally. That may or may not be true, and if true, the conduct that led to the accident may have been negligent or reckless conduct, or could perhaps have been due to a faulty holster design unknown to the user or perhaps some other cause. None of us knows and therefore there is no basis to claim negligence on the part of the shooter.
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Old 04-19-2017, 09:12 PM
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Hindsight is 20/20 of course. Though I do agree more "accidents" of this kind are due to some level of negligence. I have been at fault before. I was putting my guns into a new safe and did not properly inspect the safe's upper shelf in the light beforehand. As I set my, then loaded, model 10 on the shelf it dropped behind (I dumbly assumed the shelf went all the way to the back of the safe), it then rolled down the rifles and landed barrel first onto the floor. Luckily my instinct was to let it fall and not grab at it. It never went off but boy did I feel stupid...and lucky. I am not speaking for everyone but sometimes success makes us not so sharp, then things like that happen to remind us we can never be lazy with firearms.
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Old 04-21-2017, 09:22 PM
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I carry a .40SW MP Shield IWB, Cross draw, with a round in the chamber and the safety ON. I practice dryfiring and qualification that way. As I draw and aim on the target, I switch OFF the safety with my thumb. Constant, continual practice, muscle memory and it is automatic and second nature. We aren't likely to get into a gunfight so suddenly that we cannot ensure jumping the 'gun' and doing the wrong thing. The first thing we do should is seeking cover or concealment if possible then taking action. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are certain that you must fire, while ensuring no innocent party is in danger.

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Old 04-30-2017, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dben002 View Post
You obviously NEVER had a Hot&Ready Krispy Kreme straight off the glazing carousel.
Nope...not akrispy kreme around me for thousand miles!
I live in dunkin donuts country.
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Old 04-30-2017, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmike7189 View Post
Nope...not akrispy kreme around me for thousand miles!
I live in dunkin donuts country.
My humble and unbiased opinion (since I've lived in areas with exclusively KK, some areas exclusively DD, and areas mixed with both)...

I like DD better overall, for a few reasons- the coffee is much better, good variety of quick sandwiches and foods, and I liked filled donuts better.

KK is great, don't get me wrong but I don't like their coffee much but the best offering is their plain glazed donuts when they are hot and fresh. Absolutely amazing.
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