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Old 03-10-2017, 02:28 PM
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Default HD gun for non-gun people

Hi everybody, If I may, I'd like to ask you for your valuable input on this subject.

This is the scenario:
Middle-aged (50's) marriage, their sons recently moved out of the house.
They are non-gun people, they never had or even fired a gun, but their sons do. They never wanted a gun before but they now understand times have changed and they now need one to protect themselves.

At the moment, they have a DA revolver, unloaded, in a safe, because it scares them to have it loaded and ready. (They were led to believe by the media that guns "go off", and "accidentaly discharge").

They feel more comfortable with a shotgun. They are not as intimidated by one, and know that a pump shotgun can be stored without a round in the chamber.

So:
- What firearm (if any) would you reccomend for this couple?

- What do you think is the best gun for non-gun people to have in the house?


Remember, these people will not practice with their gun.

I love pump shotguns, but to an unfamiliar user, the chance of short stroking it is quite big and therefore a liability to non-gun people.

Me, personally, I think nothing beats a double-action revolver.
It's drop safe. It has a heavy trigger. Anyone can see if it's loaded or not. It doesn't have any compressed springs. You can see the hammer. It doesn't have a safety to fumble with. It's easy, it's reliable.

What do you think?
Thanks in advance!

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Old 03-10-2017, 02:39 PM
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Sounds like you need to take these folks shooting.
They need to shoot their revolver and your shotgun.
You didn't tell us the caliber of the revolver.
I am a big fan of starting new shooters with 22LR.
Assuming it's a modern revolver, they need a lesson on how safe a loaded revolver really is.
Then they can make a decision and select the firearm they think is best for them.
I'm big on selecting a self defense firearm that the shooter has confidence in.
In all situations like this, it's shoot before you buy!
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Old 03-10-2017, 02:43 PM
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My advice: Get proper training and practice, or forget about having a gun. A gun is a weapon, not a magic talisman that wards off evil. I have arrived at this conclusion from many years of being an NRA instructor, OK CLEET instructor, and competition official.
Anti gunners who refuse to learn are a danger to themselves and others.
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Old 03-10-2017, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THE PILGRIM View Post
Sounds like you need to take these folks shooting.
They need to shoot their revolver and your shotgun.
You didn't tell us the caliber of the revolver.
I am a big fan of starting new shooters with 22LR.
Assuming it's a modern revolver, they need a lesson on how safe a loaded revolver really is.
Then they can make a decision and select the firearm they think is best for them.
I'm big on selecting a self defense firearm that the shooter has confidence in.
In all situations like this, it's shoot before you buy!
Hi sir, thank you for chiming in.
They have a S&W 13 and 12 rounds of .38 special.
Yes, the intention is to take them to the range, but they're not very keen on it, it scares them.

I know... sounds silly to us. But imagine living 50 years believing "all guns are loaded by the devil", "guns are evil", "guns go off unexpectedly and kill little children".

It's sad but it's true.
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Old 03-10-2017, 02:50 PM
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Understand the sad but true story. If they won't practice or shoot anything it's sort of a lost cause but a double action revolver would seem to be their only hope. Once it is loaded, of course. But then they will lock it up to where it is useless to them, anyway. Lost cause. Yep.
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Old 03-10-2017, 02:57 PM
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If they won't take the time and trouble to learn how to safely handle firearms, much less practice and become proficient with them, they're not likely to be effective when it comes to protecting themselves in a SHTF situation. They'd be better off with a good dog, investing in a security system, and upgrading their doors and locks.
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Old 03-10-2017, 03:02 PM
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They NEED to go shooting first. Get over the fear and realize that the gun is an inanimate object. After that anything simple in one of the 5 main calibers using good self defense ammo.

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Old 03-10-2017, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OKFC05 View Post
My advice: Get proper training and practice, or forget about having a gun. A gun is a weapon, not a magic talisman that wards off evil. I have arrived at this conclusion from many years of being an NRA instructor, OK CLEET instructor, and competition official.
Anti gunners who refuse to learn are a danger to themselves and others.
Hi sir, thank you. I agree, for the most part. There are people who are not necessarily "anti-gun", they might just very well be "pro-gun", and "pro-self defense", but they just don't care to go shooting.
They want to have a gun for the unlikely event they have a break-in, but don't care to go practice, the same way you and I may want a fire extinguisher in the house but don't go to firefighter seminars or do CPR training.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. But I also believe everybody has the right to self-defense.
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Old 03-10-2017, 03:09 PM
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Gentlemen, thank you all for your replies.

I must say I'm a bit surprised.
Don't you know anyone like these folks?
Do really all of your acquaintances go shooting regularly?

I imagined that from 10 people owning a gun, not more than 5 practice at least monthly with it!
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Old 03-10-2017, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by diegobxr View Post
Hi sir, thank you. I agree, for the most part. There are people who are not necessarily "anti-gun", they might just very well be "pro-gun", and "pro-self defense", but they just don't care to go shooting.
They want to have a gun for the unlikely event they have a break-in, but don't care to go practice, the same way you and I may want a fire extinguisher in the house but don't go to firefighter seminars or do CPR training.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. But I also believe everybody has the right to self-defense.

I don't understand what you are disagreeing with? Anyone has the RIGHT to buy anything they wish here, including firearms by the dozens.
As an instructor, I am saying that buying a gun, fire extinguisher, home security system, whatever, and LEAVING IT LOCKED UP INACCESSIBLE has done NOTHING to provide any security at all. It is like the people who buy $5000 of exercise equipment, leave it in the box, and complain they don't lose weight.
That is what the referent to "magic talisman" means: it is absurd to buy something and pretend that mere possession of that object will produce the desired effect. To use your fire extinguisher analogy, would you buy a fire extinguisher, lock it in a closet, and only open the box when the house was on fire?
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Old 03-10-2017, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diegobxr View Post
Hi sir, thank you for chiming in.
They have a S&W 13 and 12 rounds of .38 special.
Yes, the intention is to take them to the range, but they're not very keen on it, it scares them.

That's a problem, because I'd say a K frame in .38 Special or above would be the best HD weapon for people who aren't "gun people." Revolvers are intuitive...and more handy than a shotgun.

A shotgun is likely to be stored in a relatively inconvenient place by such people. If they don't like keeping a loaded revolver in the house OR loading with speedloader in a panic scenario, they could store it with the cylinder open and a loaded speedloader inserted, but not disengaged. I've done that before. Would still fit easily in a night stand drawer.

I don't know, being scared of guns AND owning a model 13 doesn't quite jibe. They inherited it, I suppose. Maybe you could trade them out of their cool S&W with a cheap 20 ga. pump? That's what I would try to do. I've come to realize it isn't my moral responsibility to set up home defense weaponry for people who won't educate themselves about guns.

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Old 03-10-2017, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diegobxr View Post
Gentlemen, thank you all for your replies.

I must say I'm a bit surprised.
Don't you know anyone like these folks?
Do really all of your acquaintances go shooting regularly?

I imagined that from 10 people owning a gun, not more than 5 practice at least monthly with it!

I think America is a more gun friendly culture and I think people associate with likeminded people.

Here is a simple, safe gun


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Old 03-10-2017, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diegobxr View Post
Gentlemen, thank you all for your replies.

I must say I'm a bit surprised.
Don't you know anyone like these folks?
Do really all of your acquaintances go shooting regularly?

I imagined that from 10 people owning a gun, not more than 5 practice at least monthly with it!
I know someone kinda like that. My dad! While he's not afraid of guns he's not a gun person and believes owning one is enough to be good.

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Old 03-10-2017, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diegobxr View Post
Gentlemen, thank you all for your replies.

I must say I'm a bit surprised.
Don't you know anyone like these folks?
Do really all of your acquaintances go shooting regularly?

I imagined that from 10 people owning a gun, not more than 5 practice at least monthly with it!
They don't have to practice monthly. But to not practice ever, and not know basic safety? They might be better off getting an alarm or a dog.
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Old 03-10-2017, 03:29 PM
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Show them how to safely handle their gun, then do whatever it takes to get them onto a range. Buy them dinner or something. I don't have any statistics to prove this, but I think there are a lot of regular shooters out there who started out just like your friends. But once they got onto a range and had actual experience shooting, they found it so enjoyable that they took it up as a hobby. I can't say for sure that your friends will fall into that category, but you'll never know until you try.

Good luck!
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Old 03-10-2017, 03:31 PM
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You present a somewhat challenging situation.

Are their sons or instructors available and willing to teach their parents safe gun handling skills? If not, I would agree with extra security measures but not any firearm. A lack of confidence or knowledge with firearms may be worse than not having them around to be stolen or taken away, with potentially lethal consequences.

If they are willing to have minimal basic training but no more, I would suggest a 20 gauge, single trigger, side-by-side double shotgun. Easy to load and unload, aim and fire. Any handgun would be more difficult to use, aim and place shots effectively. If they think an unloaded (or for that matter, a loaded) shotgun will go off by itself, I would go back to extra security measures. Good luck with helping them out.
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Old 03-10-2017, 03:33 PM
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Remington 1100 with a slug barrel, kept in a wall safe mount


Operating parts are kept concealed and no pump action to worry about. It is wood and has no scary parts. Learn to push the safety button off and good to go. Can be mounted behind a door in a closet. Dependable, available used, and can be used for clays or real hunting.
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Old 03-10-2017, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke View Post
I think America is a more gun friendly culture and I think people associate with likeminded people.

Here is a simple, safe gun


CZ Hammer Coach 12ga Side by Side Shotgun SxS - YouTube

My thought exactly...... but in a 20 gage. Then make them watch The Clancy/ Jack Ryan film where the IRA attacks his cliff house and his wife gets the shotgun!



Another nice little gun is the Mossberg 510 youth model in 20 gage...... 18" 3+1

Take them too the range................. .22lr K-frame. My wife's family is from England .......... guns in the house :O.......... my wife now has three; a 2" 10, a 4" 15 and a M&P 22C.


Edit: Remember the KISS principle
If you/ they go a revolver route....and store unloaded..... think about a Safariland speedloader or three ........ just push it into the cylinder...

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Old 03-10-2017, 03:39 PM
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A revolver probably makes the most sense overall, but I think a DAO would be best considering they won't practice or likely even hardly handle the weapon and sound like people who would most likely completely panic in an actual defense scenario. No need to weapon that can be cocked to single action. Maybe even something with a bobbed hammer so they can precisely see how it works. Ruger makes a bobbed hammer SP101 that might fit the bill. If they insist on keeping it unloaded, I would probably say get a semi-auto and maybe they will keep it C3.

Regular practice is ideal, but even without any training, ordinary folks can effectively defend themselves with firearms. We see numerous news reports of such cases where even small children have done so successfully. Guns truly are the great equalizer. The idea that they are better off without one because they don't train is nonsense as far as I'm concerned.

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Old 03-10-2017, 03:41 PM
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They need to receive basic firearm training and familiarity.

Then once they have a little bit of time under their belts they can make a more enlightened decision about what their comfort level is and what kind of firearm makes the most sense without being too intimidating or impractical in the circumstances.

If they are truly comfortable with a shotgun and can demonstrate capability so be it...but my recommendation would be a revolver which they can manipulate without it being too difficult for them to operate.
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Old 03-10-2017, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OKFC05 View Post
I don't understand what you are disagreeing with? Anyone has the RIGHT to buy anything they wish here, including firearms by the dozens.
As an instructor, I am saying that buying a gun, fire extinguisher, home security system, whatever, and LEAVING IT LOCKED UP INACCESSIBLE has done NOTHING to provide any security at all. It is like the people who buy $5000 of exercise equipment, leave it in the box, and complain they don't lose weight.
That is what the referent to "magic talisman" means: it is absurd to buy something and pretend that mere possession of that object will produce the desired effect. To use your fire extinguisher analogy, would you buy a fire extinguisher, lock it in a closet, and only open the box when the house was on fire?
Sir, what I agree and also disagree was this part:

"Get proper training and practice, or forget about having a gun."

I agree, without training, owning a firearm does not make you any safer. But I disagree on the "forget about it" part.

May be just semantics, and English is not my native language, I apologise for the confusion. Thank you.
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Old 03-10-2017, 03:53 PM
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^^

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Originally Posted by Mister X View Post
ordinary folks can effectively defend themselves with firearms. We see numerous news reports of such cases where even small children have done so successfully. Guns truly are the great equalizer. The idea that they are better off without one because they don't train is nonsense as far as I'm concerned.
This gentleman explained better what I was trying to convey on the above post.
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Old 03-10-2017, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diegobxr View Post
Gentlemen, thank you all for your replies.

I must say I'm a bit surprised.
Don't you know anyone like these folks?
Do really all of your acquaintances go shooting regularly?

I imagined that from 10 people owning a gun, not more than 5 practice at least monthly with it!
Those people who don't plan to practice with their guns might just be better off getting a couple of baseball bats (wood) and a Taser type weapon. Far less to go wrong if they have to use them.

I have a friend who likes to think he's a gun person. He isn't, but he thinks he is. Everything he knows about guns he learned from TV or You Tube. Really.

Everytime I go to the range with him, I have to reteach him the basics all over again. He insists on keeping his revolver in a gun safe with the cylinder swung out. He says that in an emergency he'll be able to get the gun out, close the cylinder and shoot.

I tell him that in an emergency, he'll drop all five rounds out of his J frame onto the floor.

I've shown him a dozen time the proper way to empty brass out of the cylinder. I've told him a dozen times that there is no reason to to take off the side plate and remove the cylinder to clean the gun.

At that, he's a bit better off than your friends because he's not afraid of guns.

You have a very high hill to climb with them. There is no gun that is NOT going to scare them if they are unwilling to learn how to safely handle it and practice.
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Old 03-10-2017, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murphydog View Post
You present a somewhat challenging situation.

Are their sons or instructors available and willing to teach their parents safe gun handling skills? If not, I would agree with extra security measures but not any firearm. A lack of confidence or knowledge with firearms may be worse than not having them around to be stolen or taken away, with potentially lethal consequences.

If they are willing to have minimal basic training but no more, I would suggest a 20 gauge, single trigger, side-by-side double shotgun. Easy to load and unload, aim and fire. Any handgun would be more difficult to use, aim and place shots effectively. If they think an unloaded (or for that matter, a loaded) shotgun will go off by itself, I would go back to extra security measures. Good luck with helping them out.
Thank you sir, yes, their sons are available and willing to help them out. The gun they have belongs to one of them.

I thought about a SxS.
Keep unloaded with a stock sleeve with 6 rounds. Open, load and that's it.
Automatic safeties should be disabled though.

Pistols are out of the question because the lady cannot rack them.

And dogs, alarm system and bars on the windows are mandatory around here, unfortunately.. already got them covered.

Their dog is the laziest, least guarding labrador I've ever seen. I do agree on them getting a better guarding dog.


Tricky situation, isn't it?
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Old 03-10-2017, 04:04 PM
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They've got a long road ahead. They need professional training, but even that may not change their way of thinking. I can think of a family member who lives alone and keeps a .38 Special revolver unloaded and locked in sheet metal cash box (key lock). Can't understand that there probably wouldn't be enough time to find the keys, find the box, unlock the box, load the gun... Years ago the same individual kept another .38 unlocked in a dresser drawer, unloaded and didn't notice it had gone missing for six months. Was recovered by police two weeks before it was reported stolen.
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Old 03-10-2017, 04:10 PM
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They don't have to practice monthly. But to not practice ever, and not know basic safety? They might be better off getting an alarm or a dog.
You beat me to it...the best gun for a non-gun people is a dog - preferably a loud, little yappy one. I don't know of anyone that want to be bitten by a dog, irrespective of breed or size, nor anyone who wants to be shot with a firearm. Augment the dog with a baseball bat, or a can of hornet/wasp spray, and then follow with them taking lessons from a competent trainer.

Good luck,

Dave

PS - Whoops - sorry, I didn't read all the responses before responding. Okay, I still vote for loud, yappy dog, and I agree that maybe a nice double barrel 20 ga. shotgun would probably work for them. They can rubber band a flashlight beneath the barrels and be set for night time use as well. I also agree that the buttstock shell holder would be useful as well.

Good luck,

Dave

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Old 03-10-2017, 04:21 PM
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If all of that is required, maybe their best bet is Claymores around their perimeter.

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And dogs, alarm system and bars on the windows are mandatory around here, unfortunately.. already got them covered.
Tricky situation, isn't it?
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Old 03-10-2017, 04:30 PM
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Their dog is the laziest, least guarding labrador I've ever seen. I do agree on them getting a better guarding dog.


If you look at the little photo near my username, that was Murphy - a gentle soul but with quite a scary bark. If their Lab does that it may be enough, but the gun would be a good backup...
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Old 03-10-2017, 04:40 PM
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Non-gun people always need to start off with a .22 pistol. If they don't have one, use yours, or borrow one from a friend, and teach them.

As for what to use as an HD gun, a .38 revolver with soft-recoiling ammo (e.g., wadcutters) would be great.



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Old 03-10-2017, 04:44 PM
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I just realized the OP is from Uruguay -- does that factor in to what's available in terms of firearms and training?
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Old 03-10-2017, 04:48 PM
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I think the first thing to do is enroll them in a basic firearm safety class, preferably one that let's them learn on .22 handguns. If they're afraid of guns, as you said, learning how to handle them safely from an objective instructor (i.e., not a family member) may help them get over this issue. Even just taking them to a shooting range to watch other people shoot may help.

As far as guns, based on what you've said, I think the DA revolver is a good choice. I agree with Mister X that DAO would be ideal (and I like the idea of the SP101 DAO), but a gun they have would be a good start. I think one of the best features of a DA revolver for HD is that they tend to handle neglect very well. They don't require the same level of regular maintenance that semi-autos need.

I think training is important, at the very least some basic safety/marksmanship training and education on self defense laws. While ongoing training and practice is a good thing, I don't think it's essential for self defense. There are plenty of accounts of people successfully defending themselves with minimal-to-no training, just as there are accounts of people unsuccessfully defending themselves who have had training. Does training and practice improve one's odds of surviving a deadly force encounter? Sure. But a lack of training doesn't automatically mean one is doomed to failure.
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Old 03-10-2017, 05:01 PM
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Diego, someone pointed out that you are from Uruguay - that makes a difference! Americans ordinarily love guns or hate them but if they don't like them then they usually won't defend themselves with a firearm.

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I must say I'm a bit surprised.
Don't you know anyone like these folks?
No, actually I do not. I know plenty of people who won't go near a gun and many, many people who are shooters but, offhand, I don't know anyone "scared ... to have it loaded and ready". The anti-gun folks I know are afraid of guns in general but those are the same folks who would never have one loaded and ready.

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Do really all of your acquaintances go shooting regularly?
Every one of my shooting friends either shoots regularly or has shot so much in the past that while their skills might be rusty they are still competent with their guns.

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I imagined that from 10 people owning a gun, not more than 5 practice at least monthly with it!
That might be true but a truly skilled shooter remains competent even if he or she has not shot for awhile. It doesn't take much practice to be able to defend yourself with a gun at your home.
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Old 03-10-2017, 05:03 PM
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Something to add to the mix....................

some of that "wasp spray".........20ft stream to the face
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Old 03-10-2017, 05:22 PM
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Something to add to the mix....................

some of that "wasp spray".........20ft stream to the face
April 1 already?
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Old 03-10-2017, 05:37 PM
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You say they realize they need a gun for self-defense, have they resolved they can use the gun to stop a human being? I don't mean threaten with it, rather are they willing to shoot another human being? If they answer is "No" or they aren't sure, then a gun of any type is not the answer.
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Old 03-10-2017, 05:50 PM
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Like James Caan playing the gun novice Mississippi in the movie Eldorado, give them a short double-barreled shotgun. A 20ga coach gun ought to be usable and effective at most defense distances.

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Old 03-10-2017, 05:54 PM
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I would not recommend any gun to someone that is scared of guns. Accident waiting to happen
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Old 03-10-2017, 05:56 PM
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Since there are a lot of NRA logos next to our screen names, I'm assuming most of us have read the stories of actual self defense in American Rifleman.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that very few of the good guys in those stories practice every month. The key is: they have an accessible, loaded gun. Inside the home ranges don't require tagging the 10X ring at 25 yards. Safety is important but, at the moment of decisive action, having a weapon and being willing to use it to protect oneself and friends/family is really the only thing that matters.
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Old 03-10-2017, 06:08 PM
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I don't know what is available in Uruguay, but I would steer them to a Ruger 10/22. If you can get the 25 round mags there, great. If not, the standard 10 rounder is fine. It doesn't kick, is easy to load (even for a lady with weak hands) and they may actually go shoot it one day. You could even put a cheapo laser sight on it. Load it with some good ammo- no bad guy in our hemisphere or yours is going to walk through a storm of hollowpoints coming his way.
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Old 03-10-2017, 06:08 PM
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I'd bet that not many of those people were afraid to have loaded guns in their homes, either.

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Since there are a lot of NRA logos next to our screen names, I'm assuming most of us have read the stories of actual self defense in American Rifleman.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that very few of the good guys in those stories practice every month. The key is: they have an accessible, loaded gun. Inside the home ranges don't require tagging the 10X ring at 25 yards. Safety is important but, at the moment of decisive action, having a weapon and being willing to use it to protect oneself and friends/family is really the only thing that matters.
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Old 03-10-2017, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diegobxr View Post
Hi everybody, If I may, I'd like to ask you for your valuable input on this subject.

This is the scenario:
Middle-aged (50's) marriage, their sons recently moved out of the house.
They are non-gun people, they never had or even fired a gun, but their sons do. They never wanted a gun before but they now understand times have changed and they now need one to protect themselves.

At the moment, they have a DA revolver, unloaded, in a safe, because it scares them to have it loaded and ready. (They were led to believe by the media that guns "go off", and "accidentaly discharge").

They feel more comfortable with a shotgun. They are not as intimidated by one, and know that a pump shotgun can be stored without a round in the chamber.

So:
- What firearm (if any) would you reccomend for this couple?

- What do you think is the best gun for non-gun people to have in the house?


Remember, these people will not practice with their gun.

I love pump shotguns, but to an unfamiliar user, the chance of short stroking it is quite big and therefore a liability to non-gun people.

Me, personally, I think nothing beats a double-action revolver.
It's drop safe. It has a heavy trigger. Anyone can see if it's loaded or not. It doesn't have any compressed springs. You can see the hammer. It doesn't have a safety to fumble with. It's easy, it's reliable.

What do you think?
Thanks in advance!
I'm sure this won't go over well, but if they're not gun people, they shouldn't have a gun. I think it's a recipe for someone other than the bad guy to get hurt.

Better to get them some decent pepper spray, a very bright "whack them on the head" metal flashlight, and a dog that barks.

If, sometime down the road through their association with you they become interested., then maybe a gun.
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Old 03-10-2017, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by bigwheelzip View Post
Like James Caan playing the gun novice Mississippi in the movie Eldorado, give them a short double-barreled shotgun. A 20ga coach gun ought to be usable and effective at most defense distances.

The Stoeger Coach Gun - YouTube

That movie is a favorite of mine, and I'm going to good-nature pick on the analogy, because "Mississippi" took some instructions and did a little practice with the shotgun, but in the end the only person he managed to shoot was his friend, by mistake!
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Old 03-10-2017, 06:26 PM
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Come clean, Diego--are you one of the adult sons?

If so, these guys have pointed out some decent steps, starting with a little recreational shooting.

If not--you cannot do for someone, what they will not do for themselves.

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You say they realize they need a gun for self-defense, have they resolved they can use the gun to stop a human being? I don't mean threaten with it, rather are they willing to shoot another human being? If they answer is "No" or they aren't sure, then a gun of any type is not the answer.
This is well-put. A CCW seeker opined to me once that she didn't know if she could shoot someone--quietly, as if she were embarrassed. I suggested that it was a good, reasonable, natural feeling to have...but one that she should resolve before carrying. I suggested a couple books.
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Old 03-10-2017, 06:36 PM
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A little perspective from Grant Cunningham ... The Training Industry’s Dirty Little Secret

There is no consensus as to what constitutes relevant and adequate training. I have no idea what's available in Uruguay in terms of quality instruction, but I would guess it's fairly limited. I imagine a fairly sizable percentage of the members here have received no professional training and whose practice has been limited to self-directed static range shooting. Are they irresponsible and unsafe gun owners? Safely handling a revolver isn't exactly rocket science. And IMO, folks that are scared of guns are probably a lot safer than an over-confident individual that thinks he can't possibly ever have an unintentional discharge.

There is a fairly high probability that you might have to shoot on the move, access your weapon during a close-quarter attack in an actual defense scenario, but how many here have actually received training and practiced shooting while GOTX, extreme close-quarter tactics and weapon retention? Those who haven't received such training might be considered unsafe by those who have and labeled as someone who shouldn't carry a gun because they might hit innocent bystanders or because a bad guy might disarm them and we don't need more guns in the hands of criminals on the street. It sounds rather ridiculous, but it is really no different from some of the condescending statements it forth here.

Would these individuals actually be able to pull the trigger when the times comes? Who knows, it's extremely difficult to predict how any individual will react in a life and death crisis, but I can pretty much guarantee there are more than a few members here that couldn't pull the trigger or would completely panic and freeze, but hopefully none will ever have to find that out. Irregardless of these folks willingness to use lethal force, just the mere presentation of a gun is often enough and they deserve to have the best odds they can get.

I'm all for more training, but I know many people who own firearms and don't train and practice at all(my elderly mother for one) and I wouldn't ever say they shouldn't be allowed the means to hopefully defend themselves because their training isn't up to someone else's personal standards.

Last edited by Mister X; 03-10-2017 at 07:44 PM.
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Old 03-10-2017, 06:38 PM
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Nothing wrong with them owning a firearm. But in their case it's not going to help them. If they're scared of it and keep it locked away it won't be ready when they need it. A break in or attack happens right now, not in a minute or three.

You've had some good feedback about alternative security measures. To those I'd add Tire Billys and short machetes. I have a few of each strategically located around where I might be if a break in happens.




I, too, would question their mindset to employ lethal force even if they manage to get a firearm into play.

Good luck.
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Old 03-10-2017, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRT2 View Post
You say they realize they need a gun for self-defense, have they resolved they can use the gun to stop a human being? I don't mean threaten with it, rather are they willing to shoot another human being? If they answer is "No" or they aren't sure, then a gun of any type is not the answer.
Another consideration is the law regarding self defense and how use of force cases are adjudicated in their country. It would, in my opinion, be wise to consult with the appropriate authorites and legal counsel where they live. The reality of a self defense use of deadly force there could be even more problematic there then here in the US.
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Old 03-10-2017, 09:54 PM
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I would say load the Model 13 with 6 rounds of .38 Special, put it in a safe but accessible place and call it good. Odds are they will never have to touch it. If the day arrives when they need it, they will be much better off having it than not having it. Working a revolver is pretty simple. Point the barrel and pull the trigger.
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Old 03-10-2017, 10:00 PM
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Guard dog and a baseball bat.
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Old 03-10-2017, 10:01 PM
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have you ever watched a non gun person try to pull the trigger on a heavy 10 pound DA revolver ?? In a high stress situation of home defense would forget what little they knew .. they would be lucky to hit the proverbial side of the barn ..

Remington 870 pump would be the ideal weapon for someone with limited knowledge in that situation .. should be stored with out a round in the chamber (which would alleviate some fear ) above the closet door on the inside of closet .. no one would see it even if looking and would be readily accessible ..
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Old 03-22-2017, 05:04 PM
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a DAO revolver ..... not in a safe and within easy reach. Impress upon them a loaded firearm is not a threat to them, with of course, the exception, if they are on the receiving end of things.
I know people like them and have tried to help them through the process... alas, to no avail.
There is just so much we can do, if the party refuses to heed our advise.... That said, we must let them proceed without our help or advice since it is obvious they are too afraid to take their personal safety into their own hands and take advantage of your input.
Let it go my friend and be aware that you did all you could to help them.
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