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  #51  
Old 03-11-2017, 09:04 PM
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This is America. I don't need a reason. It's guaranteed by the Constitution, but if you really want a personal answer, it's because as a retired LE officer, I saw a lot. Regardless of what some might think, we actually did take an oath to protect the public, and firearms were meant for more than just protecting our own lives. A lot of men and women wearing badges have put themselves in harm's way to protect citizens. Many have paid the ultimate price.
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Old 03-11-2017, 09:11 PM
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Bad guys are predators, and like four-legged predators, they tend to pick on the "easy-looking" targets--the old, the slow, the weak...those that look less likely to be able to defend themselves. They are also, for the most part, cowards. Otherwise they'd pick on the 6'4, 250-pound Marine just to show how mean and tough they are.

Unfortunately, I can no longer run five miles in 36 minutes and I'm 68 years old, so I have found that I now fall into the "easy-looking" category, thereby increasing my chances of becoming prey. Heck!! What am I saying!!!??? I don't think I could even walk five miles, much less do it in any reasonable amount of time!

So, think about it...I can't run away. I'm too old to put up much of a fight. As a result, it just boils down to simple statistics. That is, there's a good chance that I'm likely to be targeted. I'm one who wants to even the odds as much as possible. Simple.

Hmmm. Come to think of it, I was carrying when I actually could run five miles in 36 minutes and was a heckuva lot younger. So, I guess the reason I still carry now is that old habits die hard. Besides, if I didn't have a firearm on my hip, I think I'd list a little to the left.
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Old 03-11-2017, 09:18 PM
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I asked my father that question years ago and I will never forget his answer-

"Chance favors the prepared mind"

He always carried an old bone of a Regulation Police which is my avatar and I still have it. 38 S&W and still shoots well

Pete
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Old 03-11-2017, 09:23 PM
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If the good Lord had wanted me to fight like a dog, he woulda given me fangs and claws.

Like others have said I'm too old to fight and too lazy to run.

I've been packin' a gun for over 50 years. So far, so good.
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Old 03-11-2017, 09:23 PM
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Since the late 1980's, the per capita rate of violent crime in the US has been steadily and significantly dropping. Generally speaking, we are living in some of the *safest* times in our country's history. 50 percent of all the US counties average zero murders any given year. 25 percent of the counties average only 1 murder per year. 70 percent of all the homicides in this country occur in only 3 percent of the counties. The US is a very safe place to live.

That said, I carry because doing so is an expression of my Natural Right, enumerated in the US Constitution and outlined by the natural rights / social contract theory of John Locke. The lawful defense of self and those under the mantel of my protection is my responsibility alone.

I carry a gun so that I do not have to be at the mercy of those who would wish to do me harm.

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Old 03-11-2017, 09:25 PM
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I'm late to the game. Though I got my CCW almost immediately after Florida became a shall issue state, I carried very seldom.

But I no longer wear a younger mans' clothes.

As as Father Time marches on, I can do less to defend myself and mine without some help.
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Old 03-11-2017, 10:03 PM
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I carry for the same reason I buckle a seat belt or look both ways before crossing a highway. I don't expect trouble and I try to stay out of places where I suspect there will be a problem. Precaution. It's more like cover your bases, you can't prevent bad things from happening but you can lessen the odds.
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Old 03-11-2017, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwpercle View Post
I carry a gun because the bad guy's carry gun's.

I've had the experience of having a bad guy stand at arms length and pull the trigger 4 times. I was unarmed . I didn't care for the "shooting fish in a barrel " experience, with me being the fish. Next time this "fish" is at least going to have a sporting chance.

The guy was out on Parole....had done jail time for surprise ....Armed Robbery and there was a warrant out for his arrest on an attempted murder charge. With all that , he still gets to carry a gun.
If he's can carry one then I'm going to carry one .
Did you live?
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Old 03-11-2017, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dben002 View Post
Short anwser: Cause I can't carry a policeman.
This^^^^
In almost all situations you'll have to depend on yourself for defense, there won't be a police officer standing there waiting to defend you or your family or any other law abiding citizen who needs defending. There are wolves, there are sheep and then there are sheepdogs, guess which one I've chosen tobe.
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Old 03-11-2017, 11:49 PM
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I carry a gun because I figure it is better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Running into people I've arrested while I'm at the grocery store is also good motivation to carry.
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Old 03-12-2017, 12:06 AM
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Twenty years after sending a fellow to prison for rape and long after I left LE, the local County S.O. called and said I should kinda watch out for that feller. He had made some threats before being released.

I never worried much about it. I had a gun on me or within reach 24 hours a day anyway. I don't think he ever tried to find me.
He got himself killed before long anyway.

I've carried a gun so long now that things don't feel right if I don't have one on my hip.. Belt feels funny.
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Old 03-12-2017, 01:04 AM
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I thought I didn't need a firearm to protect myself and loved ones because I was more than capable of protection with the "guns" hanging from shoulders. Then about 10 years ago a moment of inattention on a motorcycle left me with one leg and only one working aforementioned "gun".....I needed an equalizer
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Old 03-12-2017, 01:28 AM
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I started regularly carrying a .38 at age 13, so that puts me at about 28 years of being armed as frequently as possible. I have never NEEDED yet, but it's been very close a handful of times, both two-legged and four legged.
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Old 03-12-2017, 01:47 AM
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i carry because i like to shoot things.
sometimes, it's even necessary....
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Old 03-12-2017, 02:22 AM
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I whole-heartedly agree with your cop friend... and whether you believe it, or not, he WAS NOT JOKING!!! I've been calling LEOs "garbage men" for more years (NOT disparagingly) than many in these forums have been alive, to the chagrin of the daisies who live in Never Never Land. It is reality, and your acutely self-aware LEO friend obviously realizes this reality.

I became aware of this at an early age while living on Chicago's South Side, known as Canaryville (42nd St. and S. Union Ave.). Three sisters who lived in the neighborhood (I was 8 years old at the time) were kidnapped, raped, killed and dumped out in the country. The cops couldn't prevent this horrendous event... all they could do was clean up the mess afterward. Soon thereafter, my family moved back to our home state of Wisconsin fearing mostly for my 10 year old sister's safety, despite the severe hit in pay for my dad. The rapist/killer was never arrested. And there were always the winos and vagrants passed out in the walkways between the row houses and alleys, or coming to the back door for a handout on multiple occasions. How can the cops protect anyone in situations like those?

Interestingly, as an adult, a girlfriend and I were driving around through a scenic area of Wisconsin on a "mobile picnic". Finding ourselves somewhat lost, I spotted an older man leisurely raking leaves in his yard along the Kickapoo River. I stopped the car and walked over to him to find out where in hell we were and how to get back to civilization. He gave me directions and we talked a bit more. He told me that he was a retired Chicago cop and was now just enjoying life. I smiled and told him that I once lived on the South Side and gave him my childhood address. He gave me a funny look and then smiled, telling me that I had lived on his old beat during that time. Out of curiosity I asked him if they had ever caught the guy who had killed the three girls (I know the names but will withhold them). His smile turned to a scowl and he took a second to reply, "Nah, no one was ever arrested... but we KNEW who he was! Just couldn't prove it." I was surprised, and it showed. He knew what I was thinking, which was, "Since when did that ever stop Chicago cops from doing something?!!!" It had been 1958-1959, and things were just taken care of then! He told me with a rueful grin, "Yeah, I know. For some reason, we were told to lay off," and he just shook his head. We had a few more words, then I thanked him for his time and was on my way.

I started shooting when I was 9, with dad's .22 Remington semi-auto. I bought all of my own ammo with my meager $.50 per week allowance until I started working at the age of 10. (At that time a kid could walk into any hardware store and lay down his two quarters for a box of 50 .22 LRs and no one would blink an eye.) I purchased my first pistol at 18. Dad had to buy it, but I paid for it, an Erma .22 Luger-type semi-auto. I shot the hell out of it and became quite proficient. It went on the shelf the next year, as I joined the Navy in 1969. 4 years later I was discharged. One of the first things I did was buy my first center fire pistol, a lightly used S&W M39 9mm along with a new Safariland belt holster and a pile of ammo. Practice, practice, practice... It was slightly too large for me for concealed carry, so I found my first CC gun at a local gun show, a nice little Browning 1910 in .32 ACP, along with a mess of rounds. More practice. I made an IWB holster out of some thin, black shoe leather I had acquired from a friend's father, and carried it in the small-of-the-back position. Through the years, more guns, more holsters, always upgrading.

Anyway, approaching 67 yrs., now, seeing a lot of bad things going on, and avoiding just as many, I have always carried and will do so until the day I die. And then I might just take a few toys with me into the next life for a head start on things.

THAT'S why I carry!!!
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Old 03-12-2017, 02:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by American1776 View Post
Since the late 1980's, the per capita rate of violent crime in the US has been steadily and significantly dropping. Generally speaking, we are living in some of the *safest* times in our country's history. 50 percent of all the US counties average zero murders any given year. 25 percent of the counties average only 1 murder per year. 70 percent of all the homicides in this country occur in only 3 percent of the counties. The US is a very safe place to live.
Though I found where you copied that, it is hard to believe. I wonder how the shootings would compare against the killings....and the population? Enhanced response time, enhanced medical facilities, and I musty see those three percent counties on the news all the time.

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Old 03-12-2017, 03:07 AM
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I remember a co-worker at my last job (Palo Alto, CA whack-a-doodle) who said what if you can't get to your gun if there is a break-in at our house? I told this noodle-brain that a) I have a few scattered here and there, and a rather belligerent dog, and b) I asked him where is your fire extinguisher kept? In the kitchen? What if you can't get to it? Do you have other ones scattered about? What if someone gets into your house, you gonna dial 911 and wait? Or spray them with the fire extinguisher you left in the kitchen that has expired?
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Old 03-12-2017, 08:54 AM
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I carry because I also carry a bullet in me from being shot in the back of the head in 1989. I was very lucky to survive, but am partially paralyzed for the rest of my life. Shooter was illegal alien. First cop on site was also shot.
You never know when you will have that once in a lifetime meeting with an animal that will stop at nothing to get what he wants.
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Old 03-12-2017, 10:15 AM
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I'd guess that most folks carry these days for the same reason they purchase insurance, it's a prudent thing to do.
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Old 03-12-2017, 10:23 AM
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Not original to me but...YOU are the first responder. I'm stealing the fatherly quote in post 53. It fits so many situations.
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Old 03-12-2017, 10:48 AM
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Unless you've got an assigned bodyguard detail, either public or private, nobody's going to protect you except YOU.

Anybody who tells you any different is a liar.
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Old 03-12-2017, 10:52 AM
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Why do I carry a gun? Well, I used to tie a string to the trigger guard and drag the gun behind me. That looked kind of goofy. Now I just carry it.

I learned long ago that there are predators that exist in our society. I have helped put many of them in prison, but there are still many that roam looking for their next victim, and their next victim ain't gonna be me. Years ago, three street monkeys in San Francisco chose me as their next victim. My friend, Herr Walther, changed their mind.
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Old 03-13-2017, 03:06 AM
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Some carry a pistol to feel safer then what they believed they were .. some live in areas where crime is high .. some aren't able to protect themselves physically because of age or physical disability ..

The state I live in you have only been able to conceal carry for the past 3 years .. Illinois was the last state to have CC .. the tri county area I live in in central part of the state ... almost a one in five have a permit ..

Crime in most areas has gone down .. the one area it hasn't is where gang bangers continue to kill someone about every couple of weeks .. usually a banger is found dead on the street after the wagon alerts to shots fired in the area .. the wagon is a van that collects info on shots fired from sound locators that are located on telephone poles .. they've been quick enough to the scene that the casings are still warm and don't arrest anyone .. the Perps just disappear it seems !!

The people there don't see nuffin and until they do gang slayings will continue unabated ..

That's why so many carry !!
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Old 03-14-2017, 01:25 AM
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Quote:
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Maybe it's best to just listen sometimes?
I found it curious that you ended that statement with a question mark. Made me pause and consider it more. So I listened (read every post, several times). One of the more philosophically significant threads I've followed since I began hanging around here.

On the flippant-to-philosophical continuum I probably tend toward the flippant end of the scale. "Because I can," was my immediate gut response to your question. Some gave that answer, but they offered a pretty darned deep-rooted rationale for it -- not at all flippant.

I have enjoyed reading every post. None are right or wrong, or perhaps better put, each one is right for the responder. I fully believe employing a ccw is a test none of us wants to be asked to take; I sure don't. But I'm ready if called upon, and I guess that's my answer to the question, "So I'm ready if called upon."

Cheers,

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Old 03-14-2017, 02:11 AM
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I carry because I like guns and understand the fact there are bad people in the world. Like many I pray I never have to use a gun in self defense, but don't want to die from not fighting back.


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Old 03-14-2017, 05:03 AM
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I support the local police department and all departments everywhere, but face it, they won't be there in time in most cases. I have been carrying much more lately that I have in the past, but I'm a last resort type of guy. It's pretty much got to be my last option to engage a criminal, too many legal issues. Just the same you got to do what you got to do in a situation.

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Old 03-14-2017, 09:07 AM
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Because I'm responsible for my own well-being.

Last edited by roundgun; 03-14-2017 at 09:08 AM.
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Old 03-14-2017, 09:23 AM
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Because carring a policeman is too heavy....
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Old 03-14-2017, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by ExcitableBoy View Post
I became aware of this at an early age while living on Chicago's South Side, known as Canaryville (42nd St. and S. Union Ave.).
I grew up on the South Side of Chicago (69th and Indiana, 84th and Loomis and 78th and Honore) in the '60s and '70s.

When we were living on 69th st. in the '60s, home invasions were a "thing". My father put up aluminum bars on the back windows and aluminum gates on the front and back doors. He also put in a steel prop rod to prevent the front door from getting kicked in. My mother would never allow him to have a gun.

During the gun ban, non-criminals were completely helpless. Taking Amtrak into Chicago from the east, you travel through the south side on the way to the station. Every home that can afford it has high wrought iron fences, bars on the windows and gates on the doors. Rather than allow people to defend themselves, Chicago turned itself into a zoo for humans.

Pretty much everybody I've ever heard speak against armed self-defense had more regard for the predators than the prey. You can pick the victimizer or the victim. They chose the former.
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Old 03-14-2017, 10:05 AM
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Though I found where you copied that, it is hard to believe. I wonder how the shootings would compare against the killings....and the population? Enhanced response time, enhanced medical facilities, and I musty see those three percent counties on the news all the time.
The Crime Prevention research center, and John Lott, runs a lot of those numbers. But you can find them in many places.

It's not just homicide rates that have gone down---it's all categories of violent crimes. And yes, we're talking per capita rates. The argument that medical care has prevented what otherwise would have been higher murder rates (an argument that Col. Dave Grossman makes all the time) doesn't stand up to the rest of the data on other violent crimes, like robbery, shootings, assault, rape, etc, whose rates have all gone down dramatically. Non-fatal violent crime rates have been sharply declining, and so has even property crime rates. This can all be found in the National Crime Victimization Survey (the gold standard poll for criminology numbers) and the FBI and US Justice department.

There are a lot of facts that are hard to believe---and actually looking at the empirical data can be very illuminating.

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Old 03-14-2017, 10:22 AM
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Like several here, being a retired LEO with 30 years of that behind me, it feels strange to not have a quality firearm on or within reach.

The general public has no idea the number of mentally disturbed people and psychopathic predators with ~zero~ concept of conscious and the value of human life.
I've had the occasion to share interview rooms with some of these people. Your life, your family's life,anyone, has no more value to them than a gum wrapper.
I've taught CC classes to a few thousand people and feel some pride that I offered those students/clients the best job of sending them off to smart concealed carry as I could.

Strangely enough, my home location now is super-quiet with basically zero crime. It's a small island off the NC coast where everyone knows everyone and looks out for each other. Kinda like how alot of the country USED to be.
I still carry though. I often thought that since I'm still healthy and able, and have behind me many hundreds of hours of training as a 'sheepdog', I would hate to ever be placed in a situation where I COULD have helped , but couldn't because I lacked the tool(s) that I had been trained to use.
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Old 03-14-2017, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Be still wrote:
Anyone want to help debunk that?
No.

The reasons someone carries a gun are infinitely variable. Someone who does not carry may attribute motives to someone who does that are completely off-base, but that's merely an opportunity to engage and educate.

When I am at my principal residence outside of Dallas, I do not carry a gun. The firm I work for does not allow guns or ammunition - even in employee's/contractor's cars in the parking lot - so I don't risk forgetting to sweep my car before going to work. I'm months away from retirement and need to keep my pension and health insurance.

When I am at my retirement farm in Arkansas, the county only has one deputy on duty at any time to cover 82 square miles, so a gun is always nearby. Still, I don't carry when I go to the nearby town because I don't feel the need to be armed when I'm there and I don't see any point lugging a gun into town to go to the bank or church when the gun just has to be stowed in the vehicle while I'm there.
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Old 03-14-2017, 10:40 AM
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Why do I carry a gun? I'm an old man now. There's an old saying..
" Never pick a fight with an old man. If he's too old to fight he'll just kill you."
I'm too old to fight.
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Old 03-14-2017, 10:43 AM
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We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
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Old 03-14-2017, 11:20 AM
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It always seemed strange to me that someone would rely upon others for their personal security.

The older I get, the more I realize I'm in the minority with that way of thinking.
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Old 03-14-2017, 02:41 PM
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It always seemed strange to me that someone would rely upon others for their personal security.
If your very existence is contingent upon the indulgence of another, you're indistinguishable from a slave.

Anyone who relies upon the police for his physical safety is nothing more than a ward of the state in a somewhat larger than usual group home.
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Old 03-14-2017, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by petepeterson View Post
It always seemed strange to me that someone would rely upon others for their personal security.

The older I get, the more I realize I'm in the minority with that way of thinking.
People have been told over and over again that police are here to protect you .. to the point they actually believe that !!

But personal security is Here .. RIGHT NOW .. THIS VERY SECOND .. not 30 minutes from now when the LEO's arrive with sirens blaring .. so unless you have some how put a LEO in your back pocket they're not going to protect YOU !!

Conceal Carry holders have decided they will protect themselves and their love ones !!

In the tri county area I live in 1 in 5 have decided they will protect their own and have Conceal Carry Permits !! and that's just in the little over 3 years we have been able to get a permit ..
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Old 03-14-2017, 09:43 PM
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He can say it a lot better than I can.

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Old 03-15-2017, 03:45 PM
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I carry every day. I consider situational awareness my first line of defense. I do not go to stupid places occupied by stupid people at stupid times. I have no delusions about being the hero who stops a shooter whether at the the theater or the local stop and rob store. Being armed gives me an option in any situation. My first option is to be a good witness and get out of Dodge if I can. But if I cannot move myself, my family, my friends to safety, I have the option of engaging the shooter instead of begging for my life.

I carry because my safety and the safety of my family is my responsibility. I work and socialize with law enforcement. I have great respect for the work they do. But as one of my cop friends says in jest, "We are basically garbage men. We arrive after the action and clean up the mess."
Couldn't have said it any better.
someone tried to break into our house 2 summers ago at 1:30 AM while we were home. The alarm went off and it took 10 minutes for the cops to show after the phone call was made.
I could run to the station faster than that.
My wife was terrified (at the time she was very anti)
after the police left she looked at me and said "OK I get it , go get you permit and something for the house"
fast forward to last month, she just got her permit
funny how one life experience can change so many things.
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Old 03-15-2017, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by jimmyj View Post
I carry because I am so good looking and sexy that I am fearful that a gang of Hollywood starlets will kidnap me and make me their slave.
(so far its working)
Rolling backup!

The USA can be a tough place - you just never know what's around the next corner
It's a huge part of our culture - it's part of my identity
I've carried one daily for most my life, why stop now

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Old 03-15-2017, 04:20 PM
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Pretty much what most of the posters above have said. I've been a gun guy since I was a little kid. I worked as a LEO for 22 years, and have taught criminal justice for another 20, and have seen the side of society that non first responders seldom see. I am comfortable with firearms, and confident with my skill in their use. I'm not out to save the world, but there are bad people out there, and I agree that the police can't be everywhere at once, this is no criticism of the police, just a statistical fact.

I support the premise that every law abiding citizen has the right to be armed. After all, criminals are armed whenever they feel like it, and gun control laws will never change that fact.

Best Regards, Les
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Old 03-16-2017, 02:06 PM
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Since the late 1980's, the per capita rate of violent crime in the US has been steadily and significantly dropping. Generally speaking, we are living in some of the *safest* times in our country's history. 50 percent of all the US counties average zero murders any given year. 25 percent of the counties average only 1 murder per year. 70 percent of all the homicides in this country occur in only 3 percent of the counties. The US is a very safe place to live.

That said, I carry because doing so is an expression of my Natural Right, enumerated in the US Constitution and outlined by the natural rights / social contract theory of John Locke. The lawful defense of self and those under the mantel of my protection is my responsibility alone.

I carry a gun so that I do not have to be at the mercy of those who would wish to do me harm.
One stat you left out is -- what is the population for those counties that are in the 3% you mention ?? You say the US is a very safe place to live .. but do the people actually live in those safe places ..

Counties in and around Chicago have millions of inhabitants while counties in southern Illinois can have less then just a couple of thousand .. counties in the northern plain states may have just a few hundred living in them ..
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Old 03-16-2017, 02:23 PM
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That's why the crime stats are numbers per 100,000, so that we can compare densely populated areas with sparsely populated areas. UCR and the NCVS both use these standards.

Best Regards, Les
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Old 03-16-2017, 02:33 PM
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There's nothing wrong with the world,other than having people in it. The lattar is why I carry a weapon!ijs
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Old 03-17-2017, 11:24 AM
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Why do I carry? The fast, simple answer is to protect myself and family from would be attackers.

But as others have said, I can’t carry a cop around. And even if I could, they aren’t going to jump in front of a bullet for me. They’re primary concern would still be themselves.

Also, a firearm is a great equalizer. While I’m not a small guy at 6’1”, I’m also not a fighter. I don’t know Kung Fu. And I’m getting older, with back, shoulder, knee problems, etc. So whether a more fit criminal comes at me, or one with a knife, a bat, or a gun, my firearm will not only equalize the playing field, it might tip it a bit in my favor.

I also like having the tools and ability to protect myself. I’m a firm believer in “do it yourself” if possible.

Lastly, as some others have said, I just like firearms. I like the mechanics and function of them.
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Old 03-17-2017, 08:37 PM
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One stat you left out is -- what is the population for those counties that are in the 3% you mention ?? You say the US is a very safe place to live .. but do the people actually live in those safe places ..

Counties in and around Chicago have millions of inhabitants while counties in southern Illinois can have less then just a couple of thousand .. counties in the northern plain states may have just a few hundred living in them ..
Les.b (correctly) notes that the per capita methodology militates against your worry about densely vs sparsely populated areas.

Also: if you look at those 3 percent of those counties where 70 percent of the country's homicides occur, *within* those counties, most of the homicides occur in a very specific isolated area, typically only several city blocks or streets. So it's not enough to just look at a single city, and say that's where all the homicides occur. It's within those cities / counties, almost all the homicides happen in a tiny little isolated area.

The reality remains: the vast majority of the US is very safe.
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Old 03-18-2017, 03:07 AM
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Many other things than homicides make places unsafe. Mugging, robbery, theft, rape, stabbings, shootings, and the list goes on. Add all this into the mix that can happen on the Interstates' rest areas or in parks, etcetera.
While I would rather live here than most places in the world, I'll be packing.
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Old 03-18-2017, 06:11 AM
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Because I was raised that way. It's part of the package.
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Old 03-18-2017, 10:14 AM
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Because I was raised that way. It's part of the package.
I was raised the opposite way.

By the fifth grade, I'd figured out that make believe and wishful thinking were really lousy survival strategies.

I got to act on it by my sophomore year of college.

I've never looked back.
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Old 03-18-2017, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by J.R.Bauer View Post
I believe that Police carry not to protect you but to protect themselves.
John

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You would be wrong, we carry to protect ourselves, fellow officers and the citizens we've have sworn an oath to protect.

We are authorized by law to use deadly force in the situation I described above.

Last edited by deputy584; 03-18-2017 at 10:19 AM.
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