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  #51  
Old 03-29-2017, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by sigp220.45 View Post
I have a free roaming Rottweiler. Here he is watching Top Gear with me. (The real Top Gear, not the current one. Now we watch The Grand Tour on Amazon.)
Off topic a little.... Beautiful dog!! I love Rottweilers! I have had two in the past (at different times) plan on getting one when I retire in a few years. Best dogs ever!!

Thank you for your service sig! Both military and with the PD.
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  #52  
Old 03-29-2017, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Wise_A View Post
While trying to be condescending, you've missed the point. Which is that that shotgun, contrary to popular thinking, is far from a one-size-fits all solution. Its weaknesses are glossed over, its strengths are overestimated, and folks tend to ignore the fact that they can't remember the last time they actually used their shotgun.

Is it good? Yes, if you're an avid shotgunner. If it's been a few years since you've used one, but you practice weekly with a handgun, a pistol or revolver is a much better bet.

Also, isn't complaining about hearing damage after a defensive shooting a bit like pissing and moaning that your seat belt gave you a bruise?
I wasn't at the least being condescending, sir.
I am sorry you understood it that way.
I disagree with your points but will just leave it at that.
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  #53  
Old 03-29-2017, 12:04 PM
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We'll see what happens here.

https://gma.yahoo.com/killing-3-teen...pstories.html#
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  #54  
Old 03-29-2017, 12:11 PM
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I own two large working-line German Shepherd dogs. They roam the house at night. They'd love to meet an intruder that visits my home. I'll probably just remain in bed, asleep.
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  #55  
Old 03-29-2017, 06:08 PM
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I don't understand why this is a "test" or "challenge" of the Stand-Your-Ground law. This is exactly why the law exists.
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  #56  
Old 03-29-2017, 06:26 PM
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I was a cop for 30 years, the SWAT commander (extensive training & experience) and a gunfight survivor but now I'm a 70 y/o who walks w/a cane and I WOULD NOT "clear" my house in an emergency. I'd call 911 and wait in the locked bedroom w/my wife (just the two of us now) until the real cops showed up. My home protection weapon is a Glock 17.
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  #57  
Old 03-29-2017, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Wise_A View Post

Also, isn't complaining about hearing damage after a defensive shooting a bit like pissing and moaning that your seat belt gave you a bruise?
I agree with you on the shotgun pros and cons, but the hearing problem is avoidable, and the solution can be used to advantage.

The hearing muffs I use for clays now sit on the nightstand. They are the type with electronic hearing attenuation (Howard Leight Impact Sport) - the kind that amplify conversation, but cut off high decibel sounds. Inside, when you max out the volume, you'd be amazed how much more you hear. They give me better hearing (useful in the dark, that) and if used under fire, I've got a much better chance to hear the sound of bad people either coming at me or departing.
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  #58  
Old 03-29-2017, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Wise_A View Post
What does a single-action revolver or levergun do, that a double-action revolver or semiautomatic carbine cannot?

Now, what do DA revolvers and semiautomatics do that SAs and levers cannot? Fire more than once in a row.

They may be effective, but they are obsolete. There's no objective reason to select one.
Your first point is valid. Neither is better than the other. Your second point is inaccurate. The firearms just operate differently. Your comment on obsolescence is questionable. The ones most often used are modern firearms. Archaic, maybe anachronistic, but I would argue no less effective. As far as objectivity, I would argue that personal firearm choice is purely subjective. To each, their own.
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  #59  
Old 03-29-2017, 11:00 PM
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There is nothing wrong with a 9mm carbine. There is nothing wrong with a good handgun, M1 Carbine or shotgun. Choose a firearm based on your experience, your family situation and your willingness to practice with it.

The choice of a home defense firearm is a small part of the big plan required to properly defend yourself and your family in the home.
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  #60  
Old 03-29-2017, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by A10 View Post
Your first point is valid. Neither is better than the other. Your second point is inaccurate. The firearms just operate differently. Your comment on obsolescence is questionable. The ones most often used are modern firearms. Archaic, maybe anachronistic, but I would argue no less effective. As far as objectivity, I would argue that personal firearm choice is purely subjective. To each, their own.
So a single-action .38 Spl is as effective as a DA? Can they be reloaded and fired as quickly?
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  #61  
Old 03-30-2017, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by hostler View Post
I don't understand why this is a "test" or "challenge" of the Stand-Your-Ground law. This is exactly why the law exists.
Liberal news media trying to gin-up anti gun, anti self defense sentiment. The way I see it, it wasn't stand your ground at all, It was well established castle doctrine.
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  #62  
Old 03-30-2017, 12:20 AM
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"Hold on a sec while I stuff in my earplugs, dude!"

WHAT???
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  #63  
Old 03-30-2017, 12:23 AM
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I like my CZ Scorpion. 31 rounds of 147 grain HST in a reliable very accurate platform.
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  #64  
Old 03-30-2017, 11:00 PM
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Here was my first choice. My wife vetoed it....."it will clash with my Flamingo yard ornaments". Why didn't that occur to me?
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  #65  
Old 03-30-2017, 11:10 PM
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My first line of defense is a 20 year old pickup in the driveway. It's like a giant "We're not worth burgling" sign.

Last edited by JohnSW; 03-30-2017 at 11:16 PM.
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  #66  
Old 03-30-2017, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Wise_A View Post
So a single-action .38 Spl is as effective as a DA? Can they be reloaded and fired as quickly?
You won't need to reload if you're proficient with a SA. Same goes for the shotgun.
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  #67  
Old 03-31-2017, 12:46 AM
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Just finished watching a show that promoted a 9mm carbine for home defense. The show has also talked about tactics for "clearing" your home for burglars. Having a gun that comes through a door 2' before you to me is almost as ridiculous as trying to search your house by yourself. Someone breaks in your home you put yourself between your family and whatever threat is there and call 911. One, any Police Officer on this thread will tell you one person can't do this safely. Two, you don't leave your family so satisfy your ego you are a real man and can do this. You are there to stop anyone getting to people who are depending on you to protect them. Sorry about the rant. Just get tired of shows that promote things that can get people hurt.
If someone is in my house without permission I am going to get them out I don't care what happens.
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  #68  
Old 03-31-2017, 01:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Ranger514 View Post
You won't need to reload if you're proficient with a SA. Same goes for the shotgun.
Reductio ad absurdum, why not just use a single-shot, then? The shotgun is beside the point--advantages in delivered energy and versatility in ammo balance out the low capacity. But single-action revolvers fire cartridges no more powerful than double-actions.

Besides, a double-action revolver is still easier and simpler to fire quickly than a single-action.
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  #69  
Old 03-31-2017, 06:50 AM
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Single action revolvers have been used for self defense for a long time.
So have cap and ball revolvers, and flintlocks for that matter.

Under the proper circumstances, an Aztec macuahuitl would work.

In a deadly force encounter, the one who makes the fewest mistakes wins. I'm not inclined to use a method or tool which offers me the opportunity to make more of them.
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  #70  
Old 03-31-2017, 08:58 AM
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Default A Winchester

My by the bed choice is the Marine defender
not into shotguns, but this one has never been fired
with the way home invasions are increasing you have
to be prepared.
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  #71  
Old 03-31-2017, 10:58 AM
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There is a lot of good advice given in this tread, but there is some not so good advice also. What it comes down to is you have to protect your family, property can be replaced. Posting yourself at the top of the stairs while you wait for the police to show is a good idea in my situation but it may not be in your's. Leaving your family unprotected while you investigate may put them in danger. Clearing a room or house is something you should be properly trained to do. Watching videos and reading magazine articles are no substitute for getting training. However, you must make that decision when and if the time comes. Every situation is going to be different, but having a basic plan is a big help in making that perhaps fatal decision.
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  #72  
Old 03-31-2017, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wise_A View Post
So a single-action .38 Spl is as effective as a DA? Can they be reloaded and fired as quickly?
There are some interesting videos for folks who are looking to use single actions for self defense. The current line of thinking is to reload as you go. Fire two, flip the gate open, eject and reload, close the gate, fire one, flip the gate open, etc., etc. Unless you are Jerry Miculek, they seem to take about the same amount of time, and using that method with the single action allows continuous firing. Kinda slick, really.

I prefer my single actions in bigger bores, but the same thing applies.
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  #73  
Old 03-31-2017, 12:27 PM
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I knew I shouldn't have come back here to see how this was going . Some pretty good positions spread out among some "interesting" ones to say the least.

Amidst the devolution of this topic, I see that the tin hat-wearing segment of the population is still going strong.

In order to make an actual contribution to this topic rather than being part of the problem. I will suggest that I am not an expert. I am simply a man who has familiarity with the subject, and despises regurgitation of completely inaccurate information that may handicap others who inadvertently follow bad advice:

- More rounds are better than fewer
- Less time spent reloading is generally preferred
- Training works
- Controllable guns/calibers do better on follow-up shots
- Fights don't always stop after a single shot (see previous)
- Mindset to accomplish the act of shooting someone is a must, a firearm is not a talisman to ward off evil.
- Be prepared for a shootout. Better to be over-prepared for one assailant, than under-prepared for four.

After that, the sky is the limit with weapons/accessories. Just please, get some training and be prepared.

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Old 03-31-2017, 12:41 PM
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Nothing beats the sound of racking a pump shotgun in the quiet hours of dark til dawn..not much better than a 19 inch pump to get the message across that you came to the wrong address......
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But what message are you getting across? There's more than one message here.

Message 1. ....(They didn't hear it).....

Message 2. Noise coming through several walls/doors/floors will not sound like a shotgun being racked. Tried this at my house. On the same floor but from across the house it doesn't sound like anything. Just a muffled click that could be anything. From 3rd to 1st floor can't even hear it.

Message 3. Here I am!! Aim this way!!! Shoot over here!!!

Not a message but something to think about. Either your shotgun was empty and not ready or you just lost one round. It's about as useful as when the good guy racks the slide of his gun when he points it at the bad guy.


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  #75  
Old 03-31-2017, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by diegobxr View Post
Good morning to you, sir.
Everyone has their own personal preferences, but I don't think there's much to be puzzled about. The shotgun is and has always been one of the most devastating close-quarters anti-personnel firearms available; used by police and military everywhere when trouble is to be expected.

A full-size pistol will defend any home, for sure. A .44 revolver also will (likely leaving you permanently deaf, though).

However, a single round of 00 buck hits with 2.800 ft. lb. of force and within 15 yards it generates massive, brutal damage. How many do you really need to put down a human assailant?

Shotguns are inexpensive, simple, reliable, and extremely powerful. That's a good combination in my book.
Actually that's combined energy. Each pellet is roughly 150 - 200 ft-lbs of energy.

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  #76  
Old 03-31-2017, 02:38 PM
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I have a Mossy 500 tricked out for home defense and I was wondering just the other day is the safety on when the knob is pushed forward or pulled backward. It is mag is fully loaded with also one chambered 00 buck. The gun sits in an unlocked gun cabinet in the front bedroom walk in closet.

I also have a Kimber 45 acp in my night stand that has a fully loaded magazine. I have two loaded 38/357 revolvers in the front bedroom where the shot gun is also.

I have two dogs both of which would wake me up, hopefully before the intruder gets in the house. My plan is get my Kimber in my hand with the cell phone and get to the front bedroom for the additional firepower. Call 911 while standing in position with guns aimed at the doorway to the room.
The mossy has an attached 1500 lumen light and the Kimber has a Crimson Trace laser red dot.

Now that I think about it I should move the gun cabinet to the master bedroom walk in closet. Yep that will be todays task at hand.

Contrary to many reports about going deaf after shooting inside a house I know first hand that didn't happen when I shot a 9mm S&W model 59 in my house. I was actually very surprised my ears weren't ringing and really were not affected by the gunshot. Perhaps being in a smaller area the contents absorbed the cracking sound of the 9mm. Yep the incidence was due to my head up where the sun don't shine. Known also as a D.A.D. Missed my arm by inches.

I one time had shot a 9mm outside maybe three times without hearing protection and my hearing sounded like hearing through a seashell for a week afterward. So I don't worry about going deaf from shooting inside the house. One was dramatic on my hearing and the other was no problem.
Time to move the gun cabinet and shoot the Mossy for practice.
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  #77  
Old 03-31-2017, 07:34 PM
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Racking a twelve gauge pump let's the intruder know he's at the wrong house. Hitting him with 12ga 00 buck let's him know he's having a bad day. Some days were ment to stay in bed. I stagger my 00 shot with slugs the 400grs. If your going to blow a hole make a big one.

It gets even worse if I'm interrupted when I'm eating.

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  #78  
Old 03-31-2017, 08:01 PM
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But what message are you getting across? There's more than one message here.

Message 1. ....(They didn't hear it).....

Message 2. Noise coming through several walls/doors/floors will not sound like a shotgun being racked. Tried this at my house. On the same floor but from across the house it doesn't sound like anything. Just a muffled click that could be anything. From 3rd to 1st floor can't even hear it.

Message 3. Here I am!! Aim this way!!! Shoot over here!!!

Not a message but something to think about. Either your shotgun was empty and not ready or you just lost one round. It's about as useful as when the good guy racks the slide of his gun when he points it at the bad guy.


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+1 great info here.

For those of you who think it's a good idea to rack the shotgun after your house has been broken into do you also carry your EDC with any empty chamber?

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Old 03-31-2017, 08:25 PM
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I live in a one bedroom apartment in a safe area but never know. I keep a Model 65 loaded with .38 Spl SWC , my 9mm Shield is also available.
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Old 04-01-2017, 09:31 AM
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Like others, the first host to welcome an uninvited guest is my loyal friend that sleeps at the foot of the bed. My nightstand assistant & I will be right behind. It's a narrow hallway & no place to hide.
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Old 04-02-2017, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diggler1833 View Post
"I see that the tin hat-wearing segment of the population is still going strong."

"In order to make an actual contribution to this topic rather than being part of the problem."
These two statements, one right after the other, suggests your second statement may not be true.

It's like when someone says "I don't want to seem....., BUT......
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Old 04-02-2017, 08:56 AM
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I practice with a lot of different guns, including my 9mm carbines. I take defensive shooting courses for shotgun and handguns..

In other words I try and be as comfortable as possible with whatever gun I may need...

PS- I'm not into "clearing" homes..

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Old 04-02-2017, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by dben002 View Post
Nothing beats the sound of racking a pump shotgun
If there's any bigger myth, I don't know what it is. All you've done is give away your position and risk malfunction. If Mr. Bad Guy and friends are in the house, you'd best be locked and loaded already.
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Old 04-02-2017, 01:03 PM
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Suffice it to say that portraying a "hard target" with exterior lighting, double cylinder deadbolts with the keys broken off in the outside locks that don't get used (to canalize) and guns both upstairs, downstairs and other places.

Having a plan is about the 80% solution. Every one and every home is different. The gun part is the last part...not the first.

Fire Extinguishers often get overlooked as less-lethal (not less-than-lethal...) means to defend yourselves. As Clint Smith said, shoot them with the White Stuff and hit them over the head with the can.

Every night, a revolver is parked on the nightstand with a long gun of some sort to back it up against multiple home invaders. We have a redoubt in our master bedroom suite with comm, guns, ammo, water, fire ladders, fire extinguishers, etc. We have the mechanism to bar the door and hunker down until the LEOs arrive. Our duress (or action word) is "Denver". The all-clear is "Albuquerque". My 11-year old knows what to do in an emergency, as do my in-laws who live with us.

When the LEOs are on scene, a Light Stick with a key (for the front door) is attached to throw out of the 2nd floor window to the responding deputies. They open (not boot) the door and clear up to our barricaded redoubt.

The upper balcony light (facing the street the LEOs would come from EB and WB) has been replaced with a high-output blue light bulb. It emits a blue beacon which can be seen for 3/4 of a mile in each direction. The dispatcher would be told that we're armed, our location and that we're AT the blue beacon.

I can go on of course...

OBTW: In Kalifornia, I traded my "evil" AR-15 for a 1873 Uberti Short Rifle in .357 Magnum. Best thing I ever did. I have added the Whisper Springs and polished the action. The result is a 10-shot (11 with .38 +Ps) lever gun that can implant a slug into an eye socket at 35-feet. The near effortless cycling of the action makes it nearly "full-auto". Lever actions were fighting guns. I traded the black rifle for the simple fact that if I had to use it in the defense of my family, I would be vilified by the "LA Crimes". The young man in pro-gun Tulsa that recently used his has had national notoriety. What if it was in Kalifornia? What other Feinstein-driven falsehoods would be the basis for further gun control? Even the most rabid anti-gun Schumer-wannabe think of the beautiful Uberti Short Rifle as a "Cowboy Gun".

Whew! Bottom Line: A plan backed up by a modicum of training all in your household on action(s) and having the wherewithal to react is a better dialogue than what gun is better than the other.

Just my $.02 worth of advice.

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Old 04-02-2017, 01:42 PM
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I 100% agree with the thread starter. As a 21 yr. police officer myself, the absolutely DUMBEST thing to do is to go and find the trouble (barring any very extenuating circumstances) as mentioned by other posters.

What if the neighbor saw the perp and called 911 unbeknownst to you? Now you may run headlong into the cavalry armed and in your under-britches ....not good for anyone. Likewise, we (police) do not do solo building searches at anytime. That is just flat stupid! Staying put in a defensive spot is much better and gives you the advantage vs. the perp who has to find you & are generally more exposed.

As far as 9mm carbine's go, I'd use caution on that one. Our 9mm duty rounds: 124g GDHP from 4-4.5" Glock barrels penetrate very well and usually traverse the thorax of an adult stopping on the other side. Launch that out of a 16+" barrel that may be an issue inside a home.

Frankly, the 55 gr. .223 HP or ballistic tip rounds are devastating and will not over penetrate. Trust me, my agency has had to use their rifles more than a few times and the rounds never OP'd anyone, yet the damage was severe. Pistol rounds have OP'd from time to time. I would rather use a shotgun or small caliber rifle round for home defense.

*I was told by an officer in a smaller northern AZ town about some fool who used an S&W .500 4" [w/muzzle brake] for home defense. It didn't end well...he missed the perp, damaged his trailer pretty bad, blew his own ear drums out and the bullet (thank God) hit a ponderosa pine & not a human. Nonetheless, a poor choice overall. However, the perp did run like a chicken on fire!

The rifle rounds are loud as hell as we all know, but then again ANY round discharging inside a room is loud! More than likely with one person shooting, high stress etc. auditory exclusion will be present so I wouldn't sweat that. It's the entry team of multiple SWAT dudes shooting select fire SBR's that deafen people.

A good solid scatter gun is still one of the best choices. Wheelguns are good to, they just go bang when you pull the bang switch.
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Old 04-02-2017, 01:43 PM
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If there's any bigger myth, I don't know what it is. All you've done is give away your position and risk malfunction. If Mr. Bad Guy and friends are in the house, you'd best be locked and loaded already.
Agreed: SPEED, SUPRISE & VIOLENCE OF ACTION.
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Old 04-02-2017, 02:36 PM
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Fire Extinguishers often get overlooked as less-lethal (not less-than-lethal...) means to defend yourselves. As Clint Smith said, shoot them with the White Stuff and hit them over the head with the can.
In Korea we had an obnoxious drunk who started a fight in the EM's club. His intended victim looked at him, said "Not you again.", brained him with a fire extinguisher and dumped him outside in the snow.
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Old 04-02-2017, 02:43 PM
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Agreed: SPEED, SUPRISE & VIOLENCE OF ACTION.
If you forcibly enter somebody else's home without permission, you've already made a CHOICE, not a "mistake" as the relatives of deceased home invaders are fond of saying these days. You own ALL of the consequences proceeding therefrom, including getting shot. As alluded to above, your intended victims' response should be delivered without hesitation, restraint or regret until such time as you are no longer an immediate and credible threat to their life and limb, or to those of anyone to whom they have a legitimate duty of care.

I've never been shot. I consider not being a home invader or strongarm robber a major contributing factor to my not being shot.

If you don't want to be shot, don't put people in situations where it's a good idea to shoot you. In 9/10ths of such situations, they will gladly risk YOUR life rather than theirs. That's an eminently sensible decision on their part.

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Old 04-02-2017, 03:21 PM
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If you forcibly enter somebody else's home without permission, you've already made a CHOICE, not a "mistake" as the relatives of deceased home invaders are fond of saying these days. You own ALL of the consequences proceeding therefrom, including getting shot. As alluded to above, your intended victims' response should be delivered without hesitation, restraint or regret until such time as you are no longer an immediate and credible threat to their life and limb, or to those of anyone to whom they have a legitimate duty of care.

I've never been shot. I consider not being a home invader or strongarm robber a major contributing factor to my not being shot


If you don't want to be shot, don't put people in situations where it's a good idea to shoot you. In 9/10ths of such situations, they will gladly risk YOUR life rather than theirs. That's an eminently sensible decision on their part.
Actually, you may want to check local law. In MN, if possible to do so safely, you must attempt to evade. You have insurance to cover stuff, and shooting somebody running away with your TV will cost more in legal fees than replacing the TV. You have to have some way of proving a reasonable person would feel their life was in danger. My plan is to set up in a defensible spot, ideally at the end of the hallway, and let the perp come to me. I will make a phone call and wait for the sirens to get closer. If I have time to set up, the BG will see the business end of a 12 gauge double barrel first and last. If that doesn't work, then the pistol. The warning shot is the one that hits him center mass.
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Old 04-02-2017, 03:34 PM
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Actually, you may want to check local law.
Covered by "Castle Doctrine" in Ohio and a bunch of other places.

In home or personal vehicle, you have the rebuttable presumption of justification.

The idea that I must flee my HOME (into the clutches of waiting accomplices?) to avoid harm to a violent home invader is morally repugnant. It's the codification of the belief by malignantly narcissistic, sociopathic predators that the rest of mankind exists solely to be their prey.

Any place with such a doctrine of enforced victimization is as utterly alien to me as North Korea.
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Old 04-02-2017, 06:09 PM
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In MN, if possible to do so safely, you must attempt to evade.
Can you please cite the law that requires this?
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Old 04-02-2017, 06:38 PM
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A dog is your best first line of defense. He/she should alert you to any intruder. If big enough and given the opportunity may even attack the intruder. Now this may present a problem as the dog may get in the way of a clear shot.

Will probably retreat to the master bedroom as there are several guns located there. Next would be the gun rooms as there is enough stuff there to hold of several dozens bad guys.

However, if this takes place in the evening or on his days off the neighbor will be over to see what the commotion is about. He is a deputy sheriff.

Meanwhile I will be using my 1911 that I was trained to use as on offensive weapon.
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Old 04-02-2017, 07:58 PM
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I used to think that way too. The one sound that will beat the rack of the pump is the intruder shooting you because his was already loaded. Just my 2 cents.

12ga pump loaded with double 0 buck.

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I also keep a Glock 22 in the kitchen closet, a shield 40 under the couch, and a shield 9mm under my side of the bed.

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Old 04-02-2017, 09:29 PM
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For those of you who think it's a good idea to rack the shotgun after your house has been broken into do you also carry your EDC with any empty chamber?
Personally, the only reason why I keep my shotgun with an empty chamber is because it is not drop safe.

Mine is stored in a closet, for ready access. I find it quite concerning that me or someone could tip it over, with disastrous consequences.

I understand the tactical advantage of not alerting the BG, but I find it too much a risk otherwise.

(I am not an expert and this is just my opinion)
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Old 04-02-2017, 10:37 PM
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Layers, darn it, LAYERS.

Fence w/locked gates, outside lights, locked doors, dogs (preferably larger breeds - in part because the bark is more attention getting, and if you have two or more of them, an intruder who gets past the other stuff will have their hands full). Discourage with target hardening - if a potential offender goes elsewhere, you have prevailed!

Guns: someone who is proficient with a K frame full of 158 grain SWC is a lot better off than someone who is a clod with an AR or shotgun. I prefer the AR for better ballistics, less risk of penetrating walls, red dot sight, mounted flashlight; easier to shoot. The ballistics research is clear on shotguns - birdshot is clownshoes. #1 buck has been shown to be the best in terms of damage (more crush area than 00 or #4, better penetration than #4). I have mine loaded with slugs because a) my academy taught them as default, and b), my shotgun is also set up with a red dot and integral light. My additional rounds are 000 - because I bought a lot when that was the best thing going. I also have a couple of pistols.

I have considered a 9mm carbine for a couple of reasons now. One os that there are a couple of places making 9mm ARs that actually work, and are designed around the 9mm pistol mags instead of using adapters. The ammo is cheaper and one can shoot it in places that will prohibit 5.56X45. 9mm +P out of that will be at or above .357 magnum levels, even if I were to go with an SBR/can combo. Drawback, of course, is that these rifles cost as much as a service worthy AR ($2K- ish), and so the ammo flexibility has to be worth it in order to justify the money for an additional rifle.

Over penetration is less of a real concern than it is portrayed to be if one tracks down the valid research (such as by Doc Roberts). The first step to reducing the risk is to HIT THE TARGET; proper ammo might come out the back, but often with enough less energy that the risk of further penetration is reduced. A MISS carries a lot more risk to others (and your own exposure) than any purported risk from "over-penetration".
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Old 04-02-2017, 11:24 PM
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Personally, the only reason why I keep my shotgun with an empty chamber is because it is not drop safe.
Um, what??? Why would you own any gun that isn't drop safe? And, if that gun is for self-defense, why would you own a gun that you don't feel safe having one in the chamber?

That just baffles me.
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Old 04-03-2017, 09:02 AM
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You won't need to reload if you're proficient with a SA. Same goes for the shotgun.
Playing call of duty much?

What if there are 3-5 attackers? You are now limited to 1-2 shots per attacker which puts you at an extreme disadvantage. A guy just was on the news for defending his home from three intruders with an ar so this isn't unbelievable.

This just reminds me of the older guy I saw open carrying a SA revolver at the 12 position. He was at least upper sixties and overweight. Any attacker would have him disarmed and using his firearm against him in seconds
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Old 04-03-2017, 02:14 PM
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Layers, darn it, LAYERS.

Fence w/locked gates, outside lights, locked doors, dogs (preferably larger breeds - in part because the bark is more attention getting, and if you have two or more of them, an intruder who gets past the other stuff will have their hands full). Discourage with target hardening - if a potential offender goes elsewhere, you have prevailed!

Guns: someone who is proficient with a K frame full of 158 grain SWC is a lot better off than someone who is a clod with an AR or shotgun. I prefer the AR for better ballistics, less risk of penetrating walls, red dot sight, mounted flashlight; easier to shoot. The ballistics research is clear on shotguns - birdshot is clownshoes. #1 buck has been shown to be the best in terms of damage (more crush area than 00 or #4, better penetration than #4). I have mine loaded with slugs because a) my academy taught them as default, and b), my shotgun is also set up with a red dot and integral light. My additional rounds are 000 - because I bought a lot when that was the best thing going. I also have a couple of pistols.

I have considered a 9mm carbine for a couple of reasons now. One os that there are a couple of places making 9mm ARs that actually work, and are designed around the 9mm pistol mags instead of using adapters. The ammo is cheaper and one can shoot it in places that will prohibit 5.56X45. 9mm +P out of that will be at or above .357 magnum levels, even if I were to go with an SBR/can combo. Drawback, of course, is that these rifles cost as much as a service worthy AR ($2K- ish), and so the ammo flexibility has to be worth it in order to justify the money for an additional rifle.

Over penetration is less of a real concern than it is portrayed to be if one tracks down the valid research (such as by Doc Roberts). The first step to reducing the risk is to HIT THE TARGET; proper ammo might come out the back, but often with enough less energy that the risk of further penetration is reduced. A MISS carries a lot more risk to others (and your own exposure) than any purported risk from "over-penetration".
!.) Will agree with the layers concept.

2.) If using a shotgun will load it with progressively stouter loads, going from #9, 0, 00 and then slug. Any gun even possibly a .22 can penetrate a will. BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET..........

3.) If I have to use a rifle will use my M1A1 .30 Cal. with a 30 round magazine. But my first firearm of choice will be an M1911, because I was trained in the Corps to use it as a offensive weapon (as opposed to a defensive weapon). If the Corps would give back (to keep) my HK MP5, I would use that.
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Old 04-15-2017, 07:13 AM
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Aloha,

While in Hawaii, 2 locked and loaded Australian Cattle Dogs in the bedroom.

When we move to Texas, we will be living in the country,
More Cattle dogs and what ever guns we get deals on at the gun shows.

Cattle dogs are also known as Velcro dogs, they follow their owners where ever they go. Even into the bathroom. You just can't pet one, you have to pet them ALL.

Wife wants guns secreted in every room. More than likely semi autos with 30 round magazines.

Right now, all our shotguns are Brownings or Berettas.

I will have to get (I prefer) 20 ga Remington 870s with short cut down barrels.

Living in the country, calling 911 means the police will get there just to fill in the after action report.

"Fort Apache" will hold until the Cavalry gets there after it is all over.
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Old 04-15-2017, 08:58 AM
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OK, I'll be number 100. After reading 99 I see I am in a great minority. I have actually been on the wrong end of a home invasion. By 3 people. It's in the forum if you care to look it up.
Again, I can ONLY speak for ME. Things won't go as you planned, so have other plans. No matter what your plan is, at least have one, and get the rest of the folks in the house in on the plan. That was one of the key elements to our survival. Everybody knew what to do.
3 intruders are hard to handle, even if you catch them inside your home. Have a plan.
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