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Old 04-14-2017, 09:07 AM
Mr.Harry Mr.Harry is offline
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Haven't gotten into CC yet, but planning to do so eventually. My home state of NH has recently gone Constitutional Carry. When/before I do, I will certainly be sure to get fully informed/educated about all the rules and regulations for doing so. But, as I read some other threads, and as I was already aware, it is a no-no to CC in "bars" in many places. I'm just curious and throwing this question out for those who may already know - what exactly is the definition of a "bar"? An establishment that sells alcohol but no food? Like a 'club'? Here in NH, you MUST serve food if you are to be issued a liquor license from the state, so even places that would seem to more properly fit the definition of a 'bar' are in fact 'restaurants'.... are they not? Or is the rule simpler and more restrictive meaning that one can't CC into ANY establishment that serves alcohol? Including any 'restaurant' that HAS a bar? I'm thinking it's probably the latter but don't know.
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Old 04-14-2017, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr.Harry View Post
Haven't gotten into CC yet, but planning to do so eventually. My home state of NH has recently gone Constitutional Carry. When/before I do, I will certainly be sure to get fully informed/educated about all the rules and regulations for doing so. But, as I read some other threads, and as I was already aware, it is a no-no to CC in "bars" in many places. I'm just curious and throwing this question out for those who may already know - what exactly is the definition of a "bar"? An establishment that sells alcohol but no food? Like a 'club'? Here in NH, you MUST serve food if you are to be issued a liquor license from the state, so even places that would seem to more properly fit the definition of a 'bar' are in fact 'restaurants'.... are they not? Or is the rule simpler and more restrictive meaning that one can't CC into ANY establishment that serves alcohol? Including any 'restaurant' that HAS a bar? I'm thinking it's probably the latter but don't know.
Each state is different and the details of carry in places that serve alcohol are most probably spelled out in the state code.

If you are outside of your state you really need to educate yourself on the state laws you are in when it comes to CC...
If you are traveling in many different states it can become a burden to know all the different state statues but in your best interest you need to take the time to know their laws as well as your own state laws. It will serve you well in the long run.
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Old 04-14-2017, 09:30 AM
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From limited research into NH law, it seems the only place where firearms are prohibited is a "courtroom or area used by a court." (15 seconds on Google.)

dben002 gives good advice. Your own state laws regarding firearms do not travel with you. There's a cell phone ap called CCW that gives a summary of various state concealed carry laws but still a good idea to do some additional research before you travel.

In Wyoming, carry is prohibited in "Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic liquor and malt beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to that purpose."

So I can carry in the restaurant section of the local Applebee's, but can't legally go through the bar section to use the restroom. Stupid, but that's the law.
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Old 04-14-2017, 09:32 AM
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In Louisiana Food sales must be at least 51% of total revenue . If alcohol sales exceed food sales you are a bar.
Restaurants operating as a bar can get by for a while but it will catch up to you.
But the real answer is to use common sense , you know darn good and well the difference between a bar and a restaurant and if you can't tell the difference don't carry in that establishment until you ask the bartender or waitress....simple .
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Old 04-14-2017, 10:16 AM
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If the only food in the restaurant is the bowl of peanuts on the bar...
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Old 04-14-2017, 10:18 AM
Mr.Harry Mr.Harry is offline
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Originally Posted by Inusuit View Post
From limited research into NH law, it seems the only place where firearms are prohibited is a "courtroom or area used by a court." (15 seconds on Google.)

dben002 gives good advice. Your own state laws regarding firearms do not travel with you. There's a cell phone ap called CCW that gives a summary of various state concealed carry laws but still a good idea to do some additional research before you travel.

In Wyoming, carry is prohibited in "Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic liquor and malt beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to that purpose."

So I can carry in the restaurant section of the local Applebee's, but can't legally go through the bar section to use the restroom. Stupid, but that's the law.
Interesting. I wondered if it got complicated like that. Apparently it can. Thanks. Wasn't meaning to make anyone do my homework for me, just curious to hear from those of you CC all the time and what it meant for you where you are.
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Old 04-14-2017, 10:21 AM
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Research your state laws. Every state is different. In PA there is no law pertaining to carry in bars or restaurants. Only places that are listed are gov buildings and schools

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Old 04-14-2017, 11:37 AM
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Texas has a 51% rule - and there has to be a sign posted, although I've never tempted fate to go find one. And yes, going through the bar to get from restaurant to toilets could be deemed illegal, but unless you have an issue in the bar, cross a TABC agent, or try to open carry, I doubt that transit would be an issue.

But go sit down in the bar area? You should know better. The fanatics will start calling 911 (seen that happen).

And +1 on the RESEARCH! I cross three states every few weeks. All three have different rules.
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Old 04-14-2017, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dben002 View Post
Each state is different and the details of carry in places that serve alcohol are most probably spelled out in the state code.

If you are outside of your state you really need to educate yourself on the state laws you are in when it comes to CC...
If you are traveling in many different states it can become a burden to know all the different state statues but in your best interest you need to take the time to know their laws as well as your own state laws. It will serve you well in the long run.
I TOTALLY AGREE WITH dben002. THE RULES ARE DIFFERENT, IN EACH STATE, AND NO POST ON THIS THREAD IS GOING TO COVER EVERY CIRCUMSTANCE.......

KNOWLEDGE IS POWER, AND WE EACH HAVE TO RESEARCH OUR OWN PARTICULAR JURISDICTION, OR ANY THAT WE INTEND TO PASS THROUGH OR VISIT, TO ENSURE THAT WE ARE IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE LAW......

REMEMBER THAT THERE IS A GREAT RESPONSIBILITY THAT GOES ALONG WITH THE EXERCISE OF OUR 2ND AMENDMENT RIGHT......

UNFORTUNATELY, UNLAWFUL BEHAVIOR ON THE PART OF ONE OF US, WILL REFLECT ON ALL OF US.....
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Old 04-14-2017, 03:07 PM
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Here in WA they (thankfully) don't do the percentage thing. If the restaurant has a bar it is segregated and signed 'No one under 21 allowed" which also means you can't carry in that portion of the establishment. If you stay out of that small area you may carry.

Straight-up taverns where under 21 are not allowed are off limits.
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Old 04-14-2017, 05:40 PM
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Here in CA the law is silent on alcohol and guns. That means there is nothing in the law regarding carrying and drinking or being in a bar. However, there is a clause in the application that says, "The licensee shall not be in a place having a primary purpose of dispensing alcoholic beverages for on-site consumption."

So, while it doesn't explicitly use the term "bar" we do agree not to hang out in a bar.

This of course raises the question about places that have a bar as part of their business. Restaurants like Applebee's, TGI Fridays, the Olive Garden, etc., all have a bar area. Our local sheriff interprets it this way, as long as you're in the restaurant area, you're OK. Even if you're in the bar area, as long as you're seated at a booth, i.e. not at the bar itself, you're OK.

This is just my local area and state. I highly recommend giving the sheriff or police chief a call. They are usually happy to answer questions like this for you.
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Old 04-15-2017, 03:11 AM
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This is just my local area and state. I highly recommend giving the sheriff or police chief a call. They are usually happy to answer questions like this for you.
They may indeed be happy to answer this question for you. The question is are they qualified? You're better off asking a lawyer or researching the law for yourself.

Colorado has no law prohibiting carry in a bar.
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Old 04-15-2017, 03:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Harry View Post
Haven't gotten into CC yet, but planning to do so eventually. My home state of NH has recently gone Constitutional Carry. When/before I do, I will certainly be sure to get fully informed/educated about all the rules and regulations for doing so. But, as I read some other threads, and as I was already aware, it is a no-no to CC in "bars" in many places. I'm just curious and throwing this question out for those who may already know - what exactly is the definition of a "bar"? An establishment that sells alcohol but no food? Like a 'club'? Here in NH, you MUST serve food if you are to be issued a liquor license from the state, so even places that would seem to more properly fit the definition of a 'bar' are in fact 'restaurants'.... are they not? Or is the rule simpler and more restrictive meaning that one can't CC into ANY establishment that serves alcohol? Including any 'restaurant' that HAS a bar? I'm thinking it's probably the latter but don't know.

Having taught hunter safety and CC classes in several states, please allow me to EMPHASIZE the excellent advice you have received above.
1. The BLACK LETTER LAW in the state where you are standing is what a judge will use if you are arrested, and you MUST know it for any state where you carry. No VERBAL advice from LEO or others is binding.
2. There are NO UNIVERSAL GENERAL RULES, and no other state, anywhere, cares how you do it back home.
3. Quoting the US Constitution or arguing with an owner or LEO greatly increases the chance of unpleasant consequences. Even if you are sure you have violated no state gun laws, you might be hit for trespass for refusing to leave if asked.
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Old 04-15-2017, 04:58 AM
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It's a bad idea to be carrying a gun in any location, if you have been
drinking alcohol. As many have said, you need to learn the laws of
your state or any other state where you might carry.
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Old 04-15-2017, 08:58 AM
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Interesting. I wondered if it got complicated like that. Apparently it can. Thanks. Wasn't meaning to make anyone do my homework for me, just curious to hear from those of you CC all the time and what it meant for you where you are.
Another tidbit about Wyoming. As Insuit said, and it's printed on the CFP, can't cc in "portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic liquor and malt beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to that purpose," but open carry in that same space is okay.

I've had this conversation with our County Sheriff and some of the deputies. Their take: they'd rather the law allowed cc than "see" guns on folks' hips in a bar. Can't recall ever hearing of open carry being a problem in a bar, and it's not at all uncommon in the hinterlands.
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Old 04-15-2017, 09:37 AM
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Tennessee had goofy rules about percentage of alcohol served by an establishment. Then "Guns in bars" passed in 2009 allowing for gun carry where alcohol is served, period.

To my surprise several gun club members shook their head in disbelief, predicting all sorts of problems from allowing armed citizens in drinking establishments.

It's going on 8 years... we're doing fine.
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Old 04-15-2017, 10:13 AM
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What I go by is if minors are allowed. If they are then your good. Usually there will be a section with a sign that states no minors allowed so I don't go into that area.

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Old 04-15-2017, 07:58 PM
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Default Enlightened states...

...in which I have lived do not regulate concealed carry based solely on where one chooses to dine.

Always find it interesting that some states don't trust their lawfully armed citizens to comport themselves properly whilst eating or engaging in lawful adult activities.

Be safe.
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Old 04-16-2017, 10:55 AM
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Mr. Harry, although not a NH resident I frequently travel and vacation there, so I've made a point of studying all ~4 pgs of gun laws that existed in NH prior to Constitutional Carry passing into law.


NH only bans carry in courts and elementary/secondary schools. There is no prohibition on carry into bars/restaurants/etc. I don't suggest "going drinking" while carrying (also leave the car keys at home if you do this) however. Opinions vary but it's always been my philosophy carrying everywhere I go in NH is fine as long as I keep my nose clean and keep sober (no issue, I'm not a drinker).
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Old 04-20-2017, 04:24 PM
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Default CC in eating drinking establishemnts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mainsail View Post
Here in WA they (thankfully) don't do the percentage thing. If the restaurant has a bar it is segregated and signed 'No one under 21 allowed" which also means you can't carry in that portion of the establishment. If you stay out of that small area you may carry.

Straight-up taverns where under 21 are not allowed are off limits.
Washington does have the line of demarcation as described. Makes it pretty simple. I live within a mile of the Idaho state line. Idaho is completely different. CC is allowed in bars.


As has been mentioned here the wise CC'er Knows EXACTLY what the situation is. The only place to get real facts is from the State Officials for that state. Hearsay and opinion could lead you to a sorry conclusion and a lot of trouble.
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Old 04-20-2017, 04:49 PM
Model520Fan Model520Fan is offline
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Originally Posted by LenS View Post
Mr. Harry, although not a NH resident I frequently travel and vacation there, so I've made a point of studying all ~4 pgs of gun laws that existed in NH prior to Constitutional Carry passing into law.


NH only bans carry in courts and elementary/secondary schools. There is no prohibition on carry into bars/restaurants/etc. I don't suggest "going drinking" while carrying (also leave the car keys at home if you do this) however. Opinions vary but it's always been my philosophy carrying everywhere I go in NH is fine as long as I keep my nose clean and keep sober (no issue, I'm not a drinker).
Len,

Please correct me if I have missed a detail, but that is pretty much the case in MA, as well. If one is lucky enough to live in one of the municipalities that issues usable licenses at all, one will find that one can carry a gun almost anywhere in MA. Perhaps a holdover from 1998 and earlier, when one could not leave a handgun in a vehicle, altogether.

Of course, when you carry discreetly, and never need your gun because you're careful where you go, the issue doesn't come up.
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Old 04-20-2017, 05:31 PM
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Your state probably has a gun organization, you should research them for your state. I have known many people in NC who ignored limitations on carry before the law changed, but it is only a misdemeanor first time in NC. Police tended to ignore it also, for CHP holders. If you CC properly it probably will not be a problem anywhere.

I worked in Illinois as a LEO, but a long time ago, things have changed. Most police back then ignored honest folk conceal carrying back then. They did not cause problems, or bring attention on themselves. You shouldn't either, and most will not know.

ETA PSA I am not suggesting you break any laws, advocate obeying them. If you get in a grey area though, using good common sense goes a long way.

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Old 04-21-2017, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filipows View Post
Washington does have the line of demarcation as described. Makes it pretty simple. I live within a mile of the Idaho state line. Idaho is completely different. CC is allowed in bars.


As has been mentioned here the wise CC'er Knows EXACTLY what the situation is. The only place to get real facts is from the State Officials for that state. Hearsay and opinion could lead you to a sorry conclusion and a lot of trouble.

I bolded the most important part above! Things change, people mis-interpret the laws, etc. Only reliable place to look is on your state's website for the actual law itself.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Model520Fan View Post
Len,

Please correct me if I have missed a detail, but that is pretty much the case in MA, as well. If one is lucky enough to live in one of the municipalities that issues usable licenses at all, one will find that one can carry a gun almost anywhere in MA. Perhaps a holdover from 1998 and earlier, when one could not leave a handgun in a vehicle, altogether.

Of course, when you carry discreetly, and never need your gun because you're careful where you go, the issue doesn't come up.


True, MA (by statute) only bans carry on school (including college) properties. Various gov't bodies have created CMRs banning other areas (possession anywhere on any casino property, within 500' of Logan airport on the water, etc.) and policies (courthouses, some gov't buildings, etc.) that aren't actual laws.


Long before 1968, licenses were only issued to the connected folks thus there were few restrictions in the law for the "privileged".
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