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  #51  
Old 04-19-2017, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by LoboGunLeather View Post
Your posted information is not accurate. In Colorado it is a violation to be in possession or control of a firearm while under the influence. There is no violation otherwise.


They've blurred the lines between consuming alcohol and being under the influence. If you're consuming alcohol in public, chances are you're at a bar. Which carrying is not legal. So yeah.... general rule should be, whether you're out to have a drink or two, or to get hammered, keep your gun at home. If you lock it in your car, you better hope you don't get pulled over. The DWI is bad enough; don't wanna add the "carrying a weapon" charge too.


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Old 04-19-2017, 01:07 PM
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Same reason they usually only stop speeders who are going 10mph or more over the speed limit. Cost/benefit, basically.
My wife got a ticket for going 5 over the speed limit, when we lived in Texas.
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Old 04-19-2017, 02:12 PM
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My wife got a ticket for going 5 over the speed limit, when we lived in Texas.
Let me guess...this was in Iowa Colony?
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Old 04-19-2017, 02:25 PM
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In Texas it is.....I am from Texas and license to carry training includes not to carry while consuming alcohol. Never a good idea to drink and carry no matter how little you drink......just my two cents.
Very good advice. If we are ever involved in a 'selfdefense' incident having an alcohol count may well bode badly in court before a jury or a judge.
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Old 04-19-2017, 03:32 PM
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If I recall my training class correctly, Texas law says you are intoxicated at .08 BAC. However, when carrying that number changes to zero tolerance. Which means you can be busted at .01. I would think it unlikely to actually be enforced that strictly except maybe in liberal Austin, but it is at least possible.
From a technical perspective that is correct. Well, not the Austin part, but the drinking and carrying part. It is a huge legal issue that I am not sure ever comes up for the police - at least no public cases have appeared that I know about.

With some diting to remove stuff we are not discussing, this is the law:

Quote:
Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the person's control.


(a-2) For purposes of this section, "premises" includes real property and a recreational vehicle that is being used as living quarters, regardless of whether that use is temporary or permanent. In this subsection, "recreational vehicle" means a motor vehicle primarily designed as temporary living quarters or a vehicle that contains temporary living quarters and is designed to be towed by a motor vehicle. The term includes a travel trailer, camping trailer, truck camper, motor home, and horse trailer with living quarters.
(a-3) For purposes of this section, "watercraft" means any boat, motorboat, vessel, or personal watercraft, other than a seaplane on water, used or capable of being used for transportation on water.
(b) Except as provided by Subsection (c), an offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
(c) An offense under this section is a felony of the third degree if the offense is committed on any premises licensed or issued a permit by this state for the sale of alcoholic beverages.


And here is another section:

Quote:
(d) A license holder commits an offense if, while intoxicated, the license holder carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed or carried in a shoulder or belt holster.
"Intoxicated" is not defined. The 0.8 of the driving under the influence law doesn't apply here. It is a nice rule of thumb but insufficient. If you pony up for a nice anniversary dinner for you and your spouse, and let's add another couple, say at a top notch steak house in Dallas, and enjoy a good bottle of wine together - just one - so you eat this big expensive steak, side dishes, dessert, coffee, including one and a half glasses of that wine, and maybe an after dinner aperitif, when you step outside to drive home you probably wouldn't be worse than 0.1. Driving offense? NO! Gun offense? Yes!

It's a very irritating little rule.......grrrrr.....ruins a nice dinner out!
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  #56  
Old 04-19-2017, 09:49 PM
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Same reason they usually only stop speeders who are going 10mph or more over the speed limit. Cost/benefit, basically.
Infraction vs. Actual Crime . . .
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  #57  
Old 04-19-2017, 09:50 PM
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Very good advice. If we are ever involved in a 'selfdefense' incident having an alcohol count may well bode badly in court before a jury or a judge.
Not in Missouri . . .
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Old 04-20-2017, 10:32 PM
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Very good advice. If we are ever involved in a 'selfdefense' incident having an alcohol count may well bode badly in court before a jury or a judge.
Not in Missouri . . .
If you end up in front of a jury, all bets are off. The prosecution will use everything to convict you. That's their job. If you had alcohol in your system, the prosecution will try to work it into their case to attack your character and sway the jury.
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Old 04-21-2017, 01:22 AM
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The 51% sign is stupid; a little while ago I saw one posted at the entrance to one of the local hospitals. I doubt they make 51% of their income selling alcohol.
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  #60  
Old 04-21-2017, 02:31 AM
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Originally Posted by CATI1835 View Post
The emphasis is mine:

"Sec. 411.204. NOTICE REQUIRED ON CERTAIN PREMISES. (a) A business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, and that derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code, shall prominently display at each entrance to the business premises a sign that complies with the requirements of Subsection (c)."

The laws states prominent display at each entrance, not exit.

There are also very specific requirements for the size of the sign and the size of the lettering.

Defensible, IMO. I am not a lawyer, but I do see their commercials all the time on daytime TV.
When I live in SA, I noticed every bar I went to only had the sign posted BEHIND THE BAR, not at the entrance, as required by law. Always wondered what would happen legally, but that was back when there was no open carry, so it really didn't matter.

Regardless, bars really need to post it at the DOOR.
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  #61  
Old 04-21-2017, 02:39 AM
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Originally Posted by TX-Dennis View Post
If I recall my training class correctly, Texas law says you are intoxicated at .08 BAC. However, when carrying that number changes to zero tolerance. Which means you can be busted at .01. I would think it unlikely to actually be enforced that strictly except maybe in liberal Austin, but it is at least possible.
IIRC, in Texas the word is 'intoxicated.' No numerical definition assigned, i.e. up to the cop.

That's how it is here in Virginia for open carry, cannot be intoxicated, with no definition of what that is. The general consensus here is don't drink while open carrying. Concealed carry is clearly spelled out shall not consume, i.e. zero.

My personal opinion, if I can drive, I should be able to carry.

And the question of on my own property- just because I'm drunk at home doesn't mean I should lose my right to self defense. Yes, the DA will try to make the case about alcohol, but it is really about was the shooting justified. IMO, the alcohol in your system is hearsay.
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Old 04-21-2017, 02:40 AM
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Just got notice of 50th Class Reunion for Baptist College..

Now called Charleston Southern University... lnvitation said.

''No alcohol, No tobacco, No GUNS''. l said..''No ME either''.

l wont be attending...
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  #63  
Old 04-21-2017, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by keith44spl View Post
Evidently it's such a wide spread problem.....That they even write
songs about guns in bars and shootin and all such as that.


Billy Joe Shaver shot Bryant Coker at/outside a joint in Lorena, TX.




Whitey Morgan - Where Do Ya Want It - YouTube






.


I'm glad you posted this. Whitey is one of my favorites. I've seen him several times.

I don't have anything else for this thread so...carry on.


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  #64  
Old 04-21-2017, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
If you end up in front of a jury, all bets are off. The prosecution will use everything to convict you. That's their job. If you had alcohol in your system, the prosecution will try to work it into their case to attack your character and sway the jury.
It won't make it to a jury . . .

RSMO 571.030

Here's the important part(s)

571.030. 1. A person commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons, except as otherwise provided by sections 571.101 to 571.121, if he or she knowingly:

(5) Has a firearm or projectile weapon readily capable of lethal use on his or her person, while he or she is intoxicated, and handles or otherwise uses such firearm or projectile weapon in either a negligent or unlawful manner or discharges such firearm or projectile weapon unless acting in self-defense; or

5. Subdivisions (3), (4), (5), (6), (7), (8), (9), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to persons who are engaged in a lawful act of defense pursuant to section 563.031.
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  #65  
Old 04-21-2017, 02:03 PM
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It won't make it to a jury . . .
You hope.

The only reason a self-defense shooting ever makes it to a jury is if there is some doubt about its justification. And as we all know, every self-defense shooting is clear and there's never any doubt as to its necessity.

The wise decision is to leave alcohol out of the equation. Having alcohol in your system opens the door to question your judgement. In a clean self-defense shooting, you will win your case. It's easier to be clean if you don't have anything about your person to raise any questions. Alcohol just complicates everything.
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  #66  
Old 04-22-2017, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by LoboGunLeather View Post
Actually, the oysters were $19.95 per dozen (we each ordered a dozen). The appetizers were $9.95 each. The onion rings were extra, about $5.00. We each had a single glass of beer. Total tab was about $78.00. I tipped the server $10.00.

Probably one of the more expensive luncheons I have had lately, but it was a vacation visiting an old friend, so all is good.
Was that $10 tip supposed to cover the two of you?
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  #67  
Old 04-23-2017, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by CATI1835 View Post
The emphasis is mine:

"Sec. 411.204. NOTICE REQUIRED ON CERTAIN PREMISES. (a) A business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, and that derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code, shall prominently display at each entrance to the business premises a sign that complies with the requirements of Subsection (c)."

The laws states prominent display at each entrance, not exit.

There are also very specific requirements for the size of the sign and the size of the lettering.

Defensible, IMO. I am not a lawyer, but I do see their commercials all the time on daytime TV.
Thank you for posting the actual law. Restaurant and bar owners in Texas DO NOT make the choice on firearms possession policy in regard to the 51%. The law says "shall".
No one should blame the businessman, or boycott them for that law, but the owners are responsible for correct posting. (It's a mess, thanks to TABC)
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  #68  
Old 04-23-2017, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by sw282 View Post
Just got notice of 50th Class Reunion for Baptist College..

Now called Charleston Southern University... lnvitation said.

''No alcohol, No tobacco, No GUNS''. l said..''No ME either''.

l wont be attending...
Geez, sounds like they're expecting trouble!!
Bunch of elderly Baptist, you'd think they'd have cooled down by now
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  #69  
Old 04-23-2017, 01:22 PM
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Regarding only the 51% law in Texas. In order to compound this never ending debate which is not limited to just this forum I will offer the following observation. Any resturant in Texas with an on premise mixed beverage permit is very likely to derive way more than 51% of their sales from alcohol. The mark up on alcohol sales is astounding!! Not to mention the number of patrons whose bar bill can exceed the food bill. A party of four adults with the food bill averaging $15.00 per person and everyone orders two top shelf Margaritas or call mixed drinks that average $8.00 to $10.00 each times four it isn't hard for to do the math. This is only an example and of course does not fit every situation. Add to this the happy hour, sports crowd, holiday shoppers, etc, who stop in to their local restaurant to have two or five drinks and a plate of $10.00 munchies. hardcase60
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Old 04-23-2017, 03:46 PM
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Something that hasn't come up is how ridiculous this law, and many like it, is. It should not be possible to get an "inadvertent" felony. A felony should be something you do intentionally and with malice. It shouldn't be something that can happen to you on accident.
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Old 04-23-2017, 08:49 PM
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Something that hasn't come up is how ridiculous this law, and many like it, is. It should not be possible to get an "inadvertent" felony. A felony should be something you do intentionally and with malice. It shouldn't be something that can happen to you on accident.
My point, stated precisely.
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Old 04-23-2017, 10:49 PM
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Just got notice of 50th Class Reunion for Baptist College..

Now called Charleston Southern University... lnvitation said.

''No alcohol, No tobacco, No GUNS''. l said..''No ME either''.

l wont be attending...
Can't be a real Baptist college if they left out "no dancing".
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Old 04-24-2017, 08:35 AM
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Something that hasn't come up is how ridiculous this law, and many like it, is. It should not be possible to get an "inadvertent" felony. A felony should be something you do intentionally and with malice. It shouldn't be something that can happen to you on accident.
I don't know about "with malice," but every charging document I've ever seen used the word "knowingly." A little different than "intentionally," but requires some knowledge that the act you are committing is illegal. Remember, it's possible to get convicted of "Negligent" Homicide in most states. You can certainly be knowingly negligent, but you don't need to act with malice or intent to be negligent . . .
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Old 04-24-2017, 09:15 AM
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I don't know about "with malice," but every charging document I've ever seen used the word "knowingly." A little different than "intentionally," but requires some knowledge that the act you are committing is illegal. Remember, it's possible to get convicted of "Negligent" Homicide in most states. You can certainly be knowingly negligent, but you don't need to act with malice or intent to be negligent . . .
Don't you just love the way the laws are written. It couldn't be because they are written by lawyers to keep the legal fees coming in!
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Old 04-24-2017, 09:59 AM
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In North Carolina, you can carry in a bar or restaurant that serves alcohol, unless the owner prohibits carrying on the premises.

You cannot consume alcohol in a bar or restaurant if you're carrying.

Matter of fact, it's a good idea not to get caught carrying if you've been drinking.

Those of you who will be attending the SWCA Symposium here in June should keep that in mind and familiarize yourselves with basic North Carolina firearms laws before you get here.

We do have reciprocity with all other states regarding concealed carry. We are also an open carry state, for whatever that's worth.
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