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  #51  
Old 04-15-2017, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
History sort of repeats. Most historical events are unlikely to occur again due to the changing circumstances both inspired by and oblivious to those events, thus history is a poor judge of future events. People do tend to act in the same manner with regularity, but as far as the horrific events described herein previously, they're not going to repeat as they unfolded. It is safe to say that somebody somewhere will randomly shoot people soon, but so far as we might try to predict how that will happen . . .
Never said it would happen again, just that it can happen again. We hear about kids wanting to copy what happened at Columbine 18 years ago. What was it two weeks ago some girl in Maryland wanted to do it again?
https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/bd167c3...t-plotted.html
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  #52  
Old 04-15-2017, 09:45 PM
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Watch it somebody will tell you that you are wrong............
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  #53  
Old 04-15-2017, 09:46 PM
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Since I can't "unsee" what I have seen and witnessed over the last 40+ years in law enforcement (now retired), I still carry a concealed handgun every day. Since things are getting worse rather than better, I expect to continue to do so.
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  #54  
Old 04-15-2017, 09:48 PM
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Never said it would happen again, just that it can happen again. We hear about kids wanting to copy what happened at Columbine 18 years ago. What was it two weeks ago some girl in Maryland wanted to do it again?
https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/bd167c3...t-plotted.html
School shootings happen. Are they Columbine like? Not unless they follow the exact pattern with two shooters, a distraction in the field outside, kids trapped in the lunch room, etc. Every event is different. You prepare yourself, but if you plan to defend Columbine for every future school shooting, you'll be left wanting. History only repeats generally, not specifically. We've yet to have another Holocaust, but what's going on in Syria seems pretty close. The response has to be much different . . .
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  #55  
Old 04-15-2017, 09:54 PM
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I believe that was a guy in either Ohio or Pa. doing that.
I live in Ohio.
  #56  
Old 04-15-2017, 10:48 PM
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We've yet to have another Holocaust, but what's going on in Syria seems pretty close. The response has to be much different . . .
Before the WW II Holocaust of the jews was the Armenian Genocide...Armenian Genocide - Wikipedia. After the Holocaust was the Bosnian Genocide....Bosnian genocide - Wikipedia. Then what Saddam Hussain and the Iraqi's did to the Kurdish people...Al-Anfal campaign - Wikipedia
and now we have Syria

Never repeats??
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  #57  
Old 04-15-2017, 10:55 PM
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You can sometimes cure ignorance, but stupid is a lifetime thing. Odds and statistics concerning IF you will ever be attacked are irrelevant in this matter. If you carry, there's no guarantee that you will come out on top of a sudden assault, of course, but those elusive "odds" are much better than if you don't. I much prefer not being wounded, killed or getting the mud kicked out of me, and have little sympathy for those who think they are immune to the possibility, and then it happens to them because of their own willful negligence.

Sorry, I have little tolerance for stupidity, so don't expect me to mourn at your funeral or send flowers to your hospital bed. I'll be at the reloading press filling boxes for the next session of trigger-time.
  #58  
Old 04-15-2017, 11:07 PM
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Risk vs. cost. Or, stated differently, risk of not carrying vs. risk (and cost) of carrying.

Considering the risk of not carrying, I pretty much choose to ignore the cost of carrying. I do NOT ignore the risk of carrying, and will do almost anything to minimize it.

I believe that I am in more danger of attack by a canine or a human than of a mistake in gunhandling by myself. I do not really expect any of them to occur, although this winter I observed three adult coyotes walking approximately together close to my house. They left when I knocked on the window. I used to occasionally encounter unfriendly dogs when walking, but I haven't needed a gun yet, and it hasn't happened in a few years. Human threats don't seem to be an issue where I live, at least so far. I do walk at night at least once a week.

I think that I can manage to carry a revolver in a belt holster with no show and tell and VERY little risk.

I choose to carry. Your circumstances might hint at a different choice.
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  #59  
Old 04-15-2017, 11:10 PM
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You can sometimes cure ignorance, but stupid is a lifetime thing. Odds and statistics concerning IF you will ever be attacked are irrelevant in this matter. If you carry, there's no guarantee that you will come out on top of a sudden assault, of course, but those elusive "odds" are much better than if you don't. I much prefer not being wounded, killed or getting the mud kicked out of me, and have little sympathy for those who think they are immune to the possibility, and then it happens to them because of their own willful negligence.

Sorry, I have little tolerance for stupidity, so don't expect me to mourn at your funeral or send flowers to your hospital bed. I'll be at the reloading press filling boxes for the next session of trigger-time.
Carry or not is up to you. One thing that was drilled into my head when I was part of an Anti-terrorist team was "be aware of your surroundings and those around you" that will help a long way towards warding off trouble. Bad guys tend to prey on the unsuspecting.
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Last edited by AJ; 04-15-2017 at 11:11 PM.
  #60  
Old 04-15-2017, 11:15 PM
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The old saying we go by is, "the only time you need a gun is when you don't have one."
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  #61  
Old 04-15-2017, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by amazingflapjack View Post
The old saying we go by is, "the only time you need a gun is when you don't have one."
It is always the case........ You prepare the best you can and then get blindsided.
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  #62  
Old 04-16-2017, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Mistered View Post
I would simply like opinions on the matter of CC. I have been 'into' guns & shooting since the 70's and have NEVER CC'd. I have open carried a lot but typically that has been when hiking, hunting, fishing, camping etc. but have never (yet) had my CC permit.

I am not saying threats do not exist but I see (on some other forums - not this one) where CC is almost a fanatical obsession with some people. I read posts about people questioning how what they should use for CC on the beach, formal events, bicycling even in the shower etc. I once read a thread about a question on how to CC at a nudist camp! but quite frankly I do not see the need to CC everywhere - especially it is nothing more than an obsession.

Statistically we are probably most likely to become injured or dead due to a traffic accident followed by other natural (or non-natural) events.

I am NOT passing judgement on anyone or where and when they prefer to CC but I would simply like rational, intelligent input on the subject and not the typical 'because I can' or because 'I can't carry an LEO on my back' etc. Thanks.
I CC when I can, but to be honest I live a very low risk life. I live in a safe area, I don't generally go places with a lot of people and I don't go around looking for trouble. I CCed many years ago (in the 80s and 90s) and then went through years when I was moving around, changing states and so forth, which I didn't carry and didn't really miss it. For the last six years I've been settled in a state that allows CC and I do it whenever I can. To me it seems a lot like carrying a cell phone. If I leave home without it the practical side of my brain says "don't worry, how many years did you live without a cell phone and everything went fine", the (boy scout) side of my brain says "oh ****, am I going to feel stupid if I really need it the one time I leave it at home". Now that I've gotten used to carrying a firearm it feels the same way, the one time I leave it at home is the one time I'll need it. Carrying may seem obsessive to those who don't do it, but the best way to describe it is the feeling you get when you leave without your cell phone.
IMO "Because I can't carry a LEO" is actually a perfectly intelligent and rational answer. Criminals very, very seldom commit crimes in the presence of a LEO so it makes complete sense that times when there isn't a LEO around are the times you can most expect to be a victim. To put it another way, If I could carry a LEO, I wouldn't carry a gun.
  #63  
Old 04-16-2017, 04:41 AM
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How to cc at a nudist camp.....
The new Taurus "Suppository 9", of course!
Gentlemen, you are mistaken.

Taurus' products come out, not go in.
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  #64  
Old 04-16-2017, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistered View Post
I would simply like opinions on the matter of CC. I have been 'into' guns & shooting since the 70's and have NEVER CC'd. I have open carried a lot but typically that has been when hiking, hunting, fishing, camping etc. but have never (yet) had my CC permit.

I am not saying threats do not exist but I see (on some other forums - not this one) where CC is almost a fanatical obsession with some people. I read posts about people questioning how what they should use for CC on the beach, formal events, bicycling even in the shower etc. I once read a thread about a question on how to CC at a nudist camp! but quite frankly I do not see the need to CC everywhere - especially it is nothing more than an obsession.

Statistically we are probably most likely to become injured or dead due to a traffic accident followed by other natural (or non-natural) events.

I am NOT passing judgement on anyone or where and when they prefer to CC but I would simply like rational, intelligent input on the subject and not the typical 'because I can' or because 'I can't carry an LEO on my back' etc. Thanks.
You are correct sir! Many people seem to be obsessed with the CCW universe. And you have made some good observations. Some people on this board seem to need a handgun in the shower and wherever they go. It does get rather ridiculous at times.

Carrying a concealed handgun for protection is a great option for those times and places that make the most since i.e. traveling, shopping, playing tourist, running errands etc. but IMO, the practice of CCW should be weighed against practical considerations and realistic assessments of one's personal security exposure. For example, walking to your car late at night after the theater or concert or ballgame in a metropolitan setting, would be among the better reasons for CCW. However, CCW while taking a shower is probably the least practical reason - perhaps even laughable.

A couple of basic issues to consider: No matter where you are or what type of gun you carry and no matter how well trained you are, if someone gets the drop on you, they've got the drop on you! And if someone has the drop on you, you need to decide how you are going to maximize the odds that you (and possibly your family) will get through the encounter unharmed.

Best practice IMO, is to plan your activities, times and places that represent the least personal security risks. Example - I do very little banking at the branch these days and when I do need to go to the bank, I go in the AM and I use the drive-up window. I do most of my non-food shopping with Amazon.com and I avoid going to the grocery store late at night. In general, I am selective about where I go and why I need to go somewhere. But for those times when I travel outside my usual environs, it's good to be able to CCW -- but I put everything in perspective and I do not believe that I always need to be armed nor do I believe that going unarmed is inherently dangerous.
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  #65  
Old 04-16-2017, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post

By carrying all the time, you become comfortable with it. It becomes second nature and you act normal. This is a good thing. So, carry whenever legal.
I believe a lot of gun owners never become comfortable with carrying in public and suffer a lot of self conscious anxiety over it.
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  #66  
Old 04-16-2017, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
Like I said. Rarely. If 31 years ago is the best you got . . .
Again....odds......possibility.
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  #67  
Old 04-16-2017, 08:27 AM
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I think OP answered his own question, actually. Pragmatism.

As a practical matter, attacks happen and can't be predicted. If a person can legally carry a means of defending themselves, why wouldn't they?
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  #68  
Old 04-16-2017, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by sigp220.45 View Post
I carry because chicks dig it.



^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


I Know MY Chick digs it !!!






.
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  #69  
Old 04-16-2017, 08:59 AM
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However, CCW while taking a shower is probably the least practical reason - perhaps even laughable.
While I never did it, in EVERY neighborhood in which I ever lived in Chicago, there would have been worse things to do.

Home invasions have been a "thing" in inner city Chicago AT LEAST since I was in grammar school. I'm 60.

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I do most of my non-food shopping with Amazon.com and I avoid going to the grocery store late at night.
That's a luxury some of us don't have.

Two jobs ago, I was supposed to work 3:00pm to 11:00pm. Instead, due to the incompetence and dishonesty of the contracting company for which I worked, it was often 3:00pm to 3:00am (no overtime despite being an hourly worker). It was the worst job I've ever had, and at that time I was lucky to have it.

Sometimes you have the choice of working late hours or being homeless.
  #70  
Old 04-16-2017, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Joe Hohmann View Post
I have no intention of lugging a gun around with me every day. The 4 handguns I own (and shoot often) are too large and heavy to carry (41-44 oz.). A permit to carry does not mean you can't get your *** sued, and end up in the poor house.
Your choice. I have a permit and I do lug a gun around with me every day. I'd rather be sued and end up in the poor house than end up in a grave. And I am very well informed on laws that govern use of deadly force. In my state, if I use my firearm in self defense and am either not charged or exonerated at trial, I cannot subsequently be sued in civil court.
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Old 04-16-2017, 09:33 AM
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"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme." - Mark Twain.

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Old 04-16-2017, 10:20 AM
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Your choice. I have a permit and I do lug a gun around with me every day. I'd rather be sued and end up in the poor house than end up in a grave. And I am very well informed on laws that govern use of deadly force. In my state, if I use my firearm in self defense and am either not charged or exonerated at trial, I cannot subsequently be sued in civil court.
I know people who've gotten out of debt.

I know people who've gotten out of jail.

In 60 years, I've never met anyone who's gotten out of the grave.

If I shoot some goblin justifiably, he or his mutant survivors can sue me til he turns blue in the face. In Ohio, BY LAW, he cannot collect a dime. Good luck trying to find a civil attorney who'll represent you on a contingent basis for 1/3 of $0.00.

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Old 04-16-2017, 10:37 AM
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I live in a city with daily shootings, gangs, armed robberies, etc. but that activity is mostly in a different part of town. I don't carry obsessively as many do. I use good judgment and SA to avoid the scum, so the last-resort of deadly force is a minimized risk.

When I do carry, a 5-round revolver or a .380 is ok with me. I've never heard of a crime victim needing 18 rounds of 9mm to stop a violent felon, but it's theoretically possible. I'd carry my M&P FS9 if I really felt the need, but I just don't.
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Old 04-16-2017, 10:57 AM
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You should focus on what's the desired end state, and not the actual process to get there.

You say you open carry, and that some folks appreciate that. So you have already made the decision that carrying a gun isn't a bad idea. How that gets done is immaterial really.

For some, it might be open carry isn't a legal option. It could be that open carry isn't a good tactical option for their situation. It could be "the principle" of it. It could be a logical way to deal with a myriad of legal issues, such as no waiting periods/background checks/whatever.

Some folks get pretty fanatical about things they do. Guns are no different. To one person, if you are not carrying a Glock 19, and taking $300 classes every month from the "tier one" operators, and travelling all over the country to get training, etc. then you aren't doing it right. To someone else, just meeting the minimum requirements, if any, is all they need to do.

Both have made the decision, as apparently you have, that a gun on you is a good idea. The desired end state is the same for all of you. How you get there is up to you.
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Old 04-16-2017, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by AJ View Post
It is always the case........ You prepare the best you can and then get blindsided.
I have seemed to spend my life proving that this is correct, in all parts of my existence.
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Old 04-16-2017, 11:37 AM
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LOL......................Note to the Moderators:

IMHO we should have a "sticky" thread on this topic.......that the OPs can be directed to....... vs....... having a new thread on " Why should I Conceal Carry" every week;

With the same guys, making the same posts every week; like a bunch of old ladies........with nothing new to say...... and

No one changing anyone's mind...................


That said I'm only posting here ....... because of the new argument; that,

"Chicks think it's cool".........

works for me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




Good thing this isn't a Democracy......... cus in Pa. only about 7% of the adult population have chosen to get permits to carry!!!!

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  #77  
Old 04-16-2017, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by cmort666 View Post
I know people who've gotten out of debt.

I know people who've gotten out of jail.

In 60 years, I've never met anyone who's gotten out of the grave.

.

You do know it's Easter .......right!!!!!!!!!


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Old 04-16-2017, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Please explain your rationale for carrying when hiking, fishing, camping, etc. Do you feel threatened outdoors? Why would you assume that you are in more danger in the outdoors than on the road, or in public areas? From what you post, it seems that you feel you're at greater risk of being attacked in the great outdoors. Care to explain?
Most of the time when I am carrying in the outdoors it is because I am typically combining outdoor interests such as hiking, relic hunting, varmint shooting etc. with some informal offhand shooting at the same time.

Quote:
Why would you assume that you are in more danger in the outdoors than on the road, or in public areas? From what you post, it seems that you feel you're at greater risk of being attacked in the great outdoors.
Did I mention any of this? What it 'seems' to me is YOU assumed much from my simple mention of carrying outdoors. I live in a rural environment with the National Forest literally out my front door. The outdoors and shooting (for me) is a way of life rather than a novelty as it is for many.

No I do not feel 'threatened' outdoors but because the woods are just outside city limits we have our own set of problems - homeless people for one. It is not unusual to come upon a ramshackle collection of homeless living in tents or abandoned RVs relatively close to town but far enough out if 'something' happened no one may ever know. We have had reported altercations in the woods and typically these people are homeless due to drugs and can be dangerous. In some regards one MAY be at a greater risk outdoors (around here) than in town.
  #79  
Old 04-16-2017, 11:53 AM
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I agree with you that some take it to an obsession. In fact the way some on various forums are infatuated by the practice I often wonder whether they should be allowed to own weapons at all.

That said I do usually carry. Why? Well, given the number of firearms I own I would be really pissed and mortified if the one-in-a-million need for a gun arose and all I had was an empty pocket. If I have to go without I do, but prefer to carry.
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Old 04-16-2017, 11:57 AM
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And likewise, a "sticky" on weasels ---ummm, lawyers--- posting opinions about members posting opinions.

If ya can't dazzle them with facts... baffle them with bull excrement! And be really loud and obnoxious about it.
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Old 04-16-2017, 12:04 PM
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You do know it's Easter .......right!!!!!!!!!


I grew up watching Hammer horror movies, and I don't count Christopher Lee either...
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Old 04-16-2017, 12:08 PM
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And likewise, a "sticky" on weasels ---ummm, lawyers--- posting opinions about members posting opinions.

If ya can't dazzle them with facts... baffle them with bull excrement! And be really loud and obnoxious about it.


Moderators..........................I rest my case!!!!


Excitable Boy hasn't "dazzled" anyone with his arguments...... the last "X times" he's made them.

Now the insults ................

So it appears we have a hung jury for the "X" time on this matter; and I move we dismiss the case of "Why I should/must conceal Carry 24/7/365 including in the shower!"



Lighten up dude.............


PS What's a; Hammer horror movie??????

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Old 04-16-2017, 12:49 PM
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In fact the way some on various forums are infatuated by the practice I often wonder whether they should be allowed to own weapons at all.
I agree - I am a member of a relatively 'local' forum in the PNW which started out several years ago as a pretty good resource for gun enthusiasts but unfortunately became dominated by these types. Many of the original members are gone with most of the talk revolving around politics, arguments and 'black guns'. One of the reasons I like this forum - little to no politics and a lot of discussion about classic and collectible guns and actual shooting being discussed.

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Old 04-16-2017, 12:57 PM
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It heightens my sense of security. Two weeks ago I was at a township park out in the county at 2AM when I saw 4 people coming directly at me with a pit bull that was off-leash growling running right at me. I was getting ready to shoot it when it was stopped by a small gate on a fence that just happened to be closed. So it isn't only people one has to be concerned about out there, it's animals also.
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Old 04-16-2017, 01:03 PM
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If a person refuses to be victim then they must decide what they need to do so. Since most are not trained in hand to hand combat or the use of other weapons such as knives, a gun seems like the logical choice.
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Old 04-16-2017, 01:16 PM
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I used to think having a gun was just plain asking for a problem. But about 6 years ago I realized in the real world bad things do happen out in the public as well as right in my living room. I also am a senior type now and often they are taken as an easy prey so that is another reason why I carry or have a gun within reach.

I don't have a gun in the shower though.
Nudist camp how to Conceal carry? Yeah I don't know how small of a gun would be needed and I don't even want to imagine where to hide it. I guess if I ever was at a nudist camp then I would hope the gate guards were armed. LOL I really don't think a bag guy would seek out a nudist camp. I mean how many purses or wallets is the BG going to get from the outside nudist crowd?

I carry because I know calling 911 is not an option for saving my life in a bad situation. Yeah there is a 99.9% chance I will never need to use my gun but it still beats calling 911 for that .1%.
  #87  
Old 04-16-2017, 01:21 PM
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If I was meant to fight like a dog, the Lord woulda given me fangs and claws.
Since he didn't, and I'm an old geezer, I figger to do the best I can to defend my family and myself should the need arise.

I don't see a gun as a hood ornament. I keep it out of sight and have done so for over 50 years.
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Old 04-16-2017, 01:23 PM
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PS What's a; Hammer horror movie??????
Hammer studios made horror films in the 60s and 70s. Peter Cushing, Christopher Lee, lush color, and heaving bosoms.
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Old 04-16-2017, 01:42 PM
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Hammer studios made horror films in the 60s and 70s. Peter Cushing, Christopher Lee, lush color, and heaving bosoms.
  #90  
Old 04-16-2017, 02:00 PM
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LOL......................Note to the Moderators:

IMHO we should have a "sticky" thread on this topic.......that the OPs can be directed to....... vs....... having a new thread on " Why should I Conceal Carry" every week;
Nah... it's way too entertaining.

Besides.. ya never know when there's going to be a golden nugget of information come across the screen. Did you know that a carry permit does not exempt you from being sued?
I'm writing my Congressman!

That said.. you're probably right that this one has run it's course.

Until next time... round in the chamber or not...

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