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Old 04-15-2017, 12:23 PM
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I would simply like opinions on the matter of CC. I have been 'into' guns & shooting since the 70's and have NEVER CC'd. I have open carried a lot but typically that has been when hiking, hunting, fishing, camping etc. but have never (yet) had my CC permit.

I am not saying threats do not exist but I see (on some other forums - not this one) where CC is almost a fanatical obsession with some people. I read posts about people questioning how what they should use for CC on the beach, formal events, bicycling even in the shower etc. I once read a thread about a question on how to CC at a nudist camp! but quite frankly I do not see the need to CC everywhere - especially it is nothing more than an obsession.

Statistically we are probably most likely to become injured or dead due to a traffic accident followed by other natural (or non-natural) events.

I am NOT passing judgement on anyone or where and when they prefer to CC but I would simply like rational, intelligent input on the subject and not the typical 'because I can' or because 'I can't carry an LEO on my back' etc. Thanks.

Last edited by Mistered; 04-15-2017 at 12:31 PM.
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Old 04-15-2017, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistered View Post
I would simply like opinions on the matter of CC. I have been 'into' guns & shooting since the 70's and have NEVER CC'd. I have open carried a lot but typically that has been when hiking, hunting, fishing, , camping etc. but have never (yet) had my CC permit.

I am not saying threats do not exist but I see (on some other forums - not this one) where CC is almost a fanatical obsession with some people. I read posts about people questioning how what they should use for CC on the beach, formal events, bicycling even in the shower etc. I once read a thread about a question on how to CC at a nudist camp! but quite frankly I do not see the need to CC everywhere - especially it is nothing more than an obsession.

Statistically we are probably most likely to become injured or dead due to a traffic accident followed by other natural (or non-natural) events.

I am NOT passing judgement on anyone or where and when they prefer to CC but I would simply like rational, intelligent input on the subject and not the typical 'because I can' or because 'I can't carry an LEO on my back' etc. Thanks.
Its far better to have a gun and not need it, beats not having a gun and needing one!
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Old 04-15-2017, 12:46 PM
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Statisticians can't save any lives. Nor can lawyers.

(PHHTTTT!!!) Had to spit and rinse my mouth out on that one.
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Old 04-15-2017, 12:59 PM
Ziggy2525 Ziggy2525 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistered View Post
I would simply like opinions on the matter of CC. I have been 'into' guns & shooting since the 70's and have NEVER CC'd. I have open carried a lot but typically that has been when hiking, hunting, fishing, camping etc. but have never (yet) had my CC permit.

I am not saying threats do not exist but I see (on some other forums - not this one) where CC is almost a fanatical obsession with some people. I read posts about people questioning how what they should use for CC on the beach, formal events, bicycling even in the shower etc. I once read a thread about a question on how to CC at a nudist camp! but quite frankly I do not see the need to CC everywhere - especially it is nothing more than an obsession.

Statistically we are probably most likely to become injured or dead due to a traffic accident followed by other natural (or non-natural) events.

I am NOT passing judgement on anyone or where and when they prefer to CC but I would simply like rational, intelligent input on the subject and not the typical 'because I can' or because 'I can't carry an LEO on my back' etc. Thanks.
In Nebraska, one of the the things having a concealed carry permit does is remove you from unmanageable, conflicting local handgun ordinances. Omaha and Lincoln are probably as gun unfriendly as any city on the East or West coast.

Having a state carry permit puts you under state law and removes the ambiguity of different, sometime bizarre, ordinances in different cities.

Our legislature is on it's second or third attempt to pass a similar set of statewide preemptive rules for non-concealed ownership. The cities are fighting it.

Anyway, where I live, beyond the right to carry a handgun, a concealed handgun permit significantly simplifies handgun ownership.
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Old 04-15-2017, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by NYlakesider View Post
Its far better to have a gun and not need it, beats not having a gun and needing one!
^^^ Sounds "rational" and "intelligent" to me.
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Old 04-15-2017, 01:07 PM
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Stealing this from another Forum member....I don't carry because of the odds of needing it. I carry because of the possibility of it.
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Old 04-15-2017, 01:11 PM
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It is a state of mind. Better, it is a continuum of states of mind. On one end is the person who is terrified and wants a talisman to ward off evil. On the other end is the person who has fantasies of single-handedly defeating ISIS in the local mall.

Somewhere in between are the person who desires simply to be able to defend his/her person and family from bodily harm, the person who sees their civic duty to defend to extend to their helpless neighbors, retired military and LEOs who never quite get below Condition Yellow even in their sleep and decent people fed up with the lawless element.

Your mindset -where you honestly see yourself on this continuum - will determine not only if, but when, where and what you carry and should determine what level of training you seek, because movies and mall ninjas to the contrary, not every red-blooded American is a natural born gunfighter.

Possibly the worst reason I can think of (not necessarily the most dangerous, but the worst) to CC is because someone else "guilted" you into it.

I have a friend, a good, decent man, relatively proficient who is not convinced he should carry outside the home. His concern is that now, unarmed, he would act only to secure his family's safety (escape and evade) but if armed might hesitate while trying to decide whether to escape or engage and end up doing neither. If he was 20 years younger I'd suggest an instructor. I've known him long enough to respect his decision.
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Old 04-15-2017, 01:38 PM
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I play the odds by ccing a Bodyguard .380, with a spare magazine, against the possibility of ever needing it.

No, I won't fend off an army. I won't beat anyone to the draw with my pocket holster.

But if I ever NEED a gun, I will have one.
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Old 04-15-2017, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistered View Post
I am NOT passing judgement on anyone or where and when they prefer to CC but I would simply like rational, intelligent input on the subject and not the typical 'because I can' or because 'I can't carry an LEO on my back' etc. Thanks.
You don't decide when or where a threat will arise. The person or persons constituting that threat do.

You decide whether and how you'll be prepared for that threat.

I'm fortunate enough to live in a state where, for the most part, that choice is left up to me.

Were I to live in New York City, my ONLY choices would be to pretend (knowing to a certainty to the contrary) that the police are there to "protect" me as an individual and be defenseless, or to be a criminal for preparing for my own defense.

Do you think the people run over and slashed by an islamist at Ohio State thought they'd need a gun? How about the people in Paris? London? Berlin? The students at VA Tech? The people in the Pulse nightclub?

If I could predict with absolute certainty when and where I'd face the threat of unlawful deadly force, I wouldn't carry a gun. I'd play the stock market and bet on the horses. I wouldn't need to carry. I'd have enough money to own my own island and have an army, navy and air force to protect it and me.
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Old 04-15-2017, 02:03 PM
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I sometime carry concealed, especial when it no one's business other than my own.


For you see, I have a reasonability to my family to not only defend them from
danger, but to defend myself so I can continue to provide for all parties concerned.


So, it's not about carrying a firearm for a feel good kinda thing.


It's for real world things that can happen without forewarning or prior notice.


Per-planning, Prevents Piss Poor Performance.




I know these things....because I have seen something's.




.




.
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Old 04-15-2017, 02:05 PM
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How to cc at a nudist camp.....
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Old 04-15-2017, 02:08 PM
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How to cc at a nudist camp.....



She carried it at the high cross draw......





.
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Old 04-15-2017, 02:14 PM
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I ccw everywhere I go b/c there is no way I can predict where or when I might need my gun. That said I realize there is very little chance I'll ever use it but there have been times I was glad it was with me. Also, I was a working cop for 30 years and while I no longer go in harm's way my experiences (deadly confrontations more than once) taught me it's better to carry and not need it than the other way around. It's no more trouble to carry than throwing my keys in a pocket so why not.
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Old 04-15-2017, 02:50 PM
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I carry a gun for the same reasons I wear a seatbelt and wear a motorcycle helmet. In spite of best efforts to avoid a problem, stuff happens. Should the need arise for any of those pieces of gear, you sure don't have time to hunt for it. YMMV.
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Old 04-15-2017, 02:55 PM
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I started carrying concealed when I worked my first gun shop job. That was before Ohio had CCW Permits. Once the Permits were available I got mine and started carrying all the time. It became a habit. Now if I don't carry Two J-Frames and all the other gear I carry, my pants don't fit right and I walk funny. Everything I carry weighs Five Pounds. I don't think everybody should do like I do. You have to decide for yourself just how far you want to go. Some people I know got there Permit and never carried. Some carry once in a while. Others only keep it in the car.
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Old 04-15-2017, 02:58 PM
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Well, I have never NEEDED fire insurance on my house or insurance on my car, and haven't NEEDED a spare tire in my trunk in over 30 years. I still have all three. I also carry a fire extinguisher in my car and truck and have never needed it -- except one time when I put out an engine fire in a lady's car by the side of the Interstate. She was sure tickled pink I had it, and the Highway Patrol sent me a letter of commendation for my prompt actions! Am I obsessed -- or prepared?

Never needed my carry gun, either -- but I've been happy to have it a couple of times when things seemed headed quickly in the wrong direction. I pray I never need it -- but if I do, it'll be there.
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Old 04-15-2017, 03:00 PM
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I've paid for fire insurance on my house for years and years, and never
needed it yet. But it's comforting to know it's there if I ever do need it.
The concealed carry is the same idea. I have never needed it, but there
have been a few times it was comforting to know it was there if I did
need it.

Remember in Lonesome Dove, former Ranger Call gave a gun and holster
to young Newt and said "it's better to have this and not need it than to
need it and not have it". It couldn't be better said.
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Old 04-15-2017, 03:01 PM
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How to cc at a nudist camp.....
The new Taurus "Suppository 9", of course!
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Old 04-15-2017, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by haywood View Post
I started carrying concealed when I worked my first gun shop job. That was before Ohio had CCW Permits. Once the Permits were available I got mine and started carrying all the time. It became a habit. Now if I don't carry Two J-Frames and all the other gear I carry, my pants don't fit right and I walk funny. Everything I carry weighs Five Pounds. I don't think everybody should do like I do. You have to decide for yourself just how far you want to go. Some people I know got there Permit and never carried. Some carry once in a while. Others only keep it in the car.
I waited for some of the more asinine aspects of Ohio CCW law to change before I got my CHL.

Now I carry virtually every day, although I can't carry INTO work.

NOBODY is going to protect me except ME. That's just a matter of law and physical reality.

I MIGHT not be able to defend myself. I KNOW nobody else is going to.

It's interesting to see people's reactions when you tell them that the police have no duty to protect you as an individual, no liability if they don't, and in any case no physical ability. It's like them hearing for the first time that there's no Santa.

But as I'm fond of saying, wishful thinking is a really lousy survival strategy...
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Old 04-15-2017, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snubbyfan View Post
How to cc at a nudist camp.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by keith44spl View Post
She carried it at the high cross draw......
Pics, or it didn't happen.
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Old 04-15-2017, 03:26 PM
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Your house probably won't burn down today but I'd bet you have a smoke alarm and probably a fire extinguisher.

No difference.
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Old 04-15-2017, 05:00 PM
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Leaving right now to go to town to eat. One in each front pocket, my wife has her's. It's just a way of life for us. We do in fact, carry every step and shoot every day. Our way, our choice. We all must find our own salvation.
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Old 04-15-2017, 05:03 PM
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All I can say is the OP must live in a peaceful paradise, with no worries. I'm retired law enforcement. Hardly a day goes by that I don't read something in the local paper, or see a story on an area television station about drug related crime or violence in our part of the world. In my case, concealed carry is just insurance to back up situational awareness. It's a mindset I was rasied with, and it was reinforced in my training. I'm not looking for a fight, and I no longer enforce the law, but I won't become a helpless victim.
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Old 04-15-2017, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
All I can say is the OP must live in a peaceful paradise, with no worries.
For the most part yes - I live in a VERY conservative, rural area of Central Oregon with relatively low crime other than the occasional nut cases that get drunk/high and do something really stupid. We have no 'ethnic' issues here and for the most part I can probably estimate about 90 + % gun owners in the area.

This does not mean I am in any way completely 'safe' but the mindset is typically more 'small town' rural without the complexities of a larger area and the typical problems that seem to follow it.

I am a veteran and have been is some pretty bad areas of the world and consider myself fortunate to live in the place I do.

We are also a very tight knit community who all actually KNOW our neighbors and on weekends seem to have a 'musical chair' movement of us walking around, helping each other when needed and largely in part a sense of community rarely seen these days.

My open carry in the area is accepted and never questioned - and actually appreciated by the 'older' members of the community.

So in conclusion I appreciate all the followup from my original post. Thanks.
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Old 04-15-2017, 05:49 PM
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Carrying here is legal and I do at times go heeled. If going shopping you can not carry in a store legally, so the piece must stay in the car. If going on school grounds there are no firearms allowed there for any reason. At work not allowed to carry, again the piece is left in the car. So as you can see it is a quandary sometimes to stay legal or to defy the law. Now I only carry when out after dark or on trips.
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Old 04-15-2017, 06:27 PM
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Carrying a gun is a life changing experience whether carried concealed or openly. It's like American Express. "Never leave home without it".

It's becomes a way of life.
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Old 04-15-2017, 06:46 PM
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1) It's "easy" to carry: I have custom made holsters and I can carry very comfortably; almost as if I am not carrying. It is not an inconvenience for me to carry - no comfort impact.

2) I believe in self reliance. Many believe that the Government is a benevolent provider, e.g., the police will protect you. But the police are rarely there when you need them. Response times, if they are even called, typically are several minutes or more. That is an eternity during an assault.

3) I believe that we have a natural right to self defense. And the Heller opinion established that the right to bear arms is an individual right protected by the Constitution, so I want to exercise my natural right to the fullest extent.

4) I have children and I want to do everything I can to come home to them.

5) Just because I carry does not mean I will use it. It all depends on the circumstances.

6) Given that I can carry, I cannot think of a reason I should not carry.
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Old 04-15-2017, 07:02 PM
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Old 04-15-2017, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Mistered View Post
I would simply like opinions on the matter of CC. I have been 'into' guns & shooting since the 70's and have NEVER CC'd. I have open carried a lot but typically that has been when hiking, hunting, fishing, camping etc. but have never (yet) had my CC permit.

I am not saying threats do not exist but I see (on some other forums - not this one) where CC is almost a fanatical obsession with some people. I read posts about people questioning how what they should use for CC on the beach, formal events, bicycling even in the shower etc. I once read a thread about a question on how to CC at a nudist camp! but quite frankly I do not see the need to CC everywhere - especially it is nothing more than an obsession.

Statistically we are probably most likely to become injured or dead due to a traffic accident followed by other natural (or non-natural) events.

I am NOT passing judgement on anyone or where and when they prefer to CC but I would simply like rational, intelligent input on the subject and not the typical 'because I can' or because 'I can't carry an LEO on my back' etc. Thanks.
Please explain your rationale for carrying when hiking, fishing, camping, etc. Do you feel threatened outdoors? Why would you assume that you are in more danger in the outdoors than on the road, or in public areas? From what you post, it seems that you feel you're at greater risk of being attacked in the great outdoors. Care to explain?
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Old 04-15-2017, 07:33 PM
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Handgun carry - A convenient means of self defense.

I drop an LCP in my pocket when I get dressed and it remains there unnoticed all day. So does my wallet, light and knife. For me, there isn't a bunch of analytical statistics nor psychobabble swirling around in my brainpan contemplating it each morning. Just drop it in my pocket and go about my day as I do every day... yawn.


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Old 04-15-2017, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Ranger514 View Post
Please explain your rationale for carrying when hiking, fishing, camping, etc. Do you feel threatened outdoors? Why would you assume that you are in more danger in the outdoors than on the road, or in public areas? From what you post, it seems that you feel you're at greater risk of being attacked in the great outdoors. Care to explain?
There's pretty much no place where you CAN'T be attacked.

It's more likely in large urban areas, but certainly not limited to them. The last time I pointed a loaded firearm at somebody it was on the interstate in the middle of the night when they tried to run a friend and me off of the highway.

Lone hunters and shooters have been killed for their guns in the woods and on ranges.
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Old 04-15-2017, 08:02 PM
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You have been piled on plenty by the "it's better to have it and not need it..." crowd. They're right by the way.

Even so, anyone who's going to carry a gun for self-defense should carry whenever legal. Sure, you never know when you'll need it, but also to become comfortable with carrying. I can pick out a person who just started carrying very easily. They carry themselves differently. They often touch their gun a lot without realizing it. They tend not to swing their shooting arm which makes for an obvious one sided walk.

By carrying all the time, you become comfortable with it. It becomes second nature and you act normal. This is a good thing. So, carry whenever legal.
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Old 04-15-2017, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by cmort666 View Post
. . . Lone hunters and shooters have been killed for their guns in the woods and on ranges.
Rarely . . .
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Old 04-15-2017, 08:14 PM
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Rarely . . .
Maybe, but it does happen. The guys who killed the FBI agents in the Miami shootout in 1986 got some of their firearms that way.
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Old 04-15-2017, 08:19 PM
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Maybe, but it does happen. The guys who killed the FBI agents in the Miami shootout in 1986 got some of their firearms that way.
I also believe there was a guy here 15-20 years ago, killing lone hunters.
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Old 04-15-2017, 08:19 PM
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I also believe there was a guy here 15-20 years ago, killing lone hunters.
Like I said . . . Rarely . . .
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Old 04-15-2017, 08:20 PM
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Maybe, but it does happen. The guys who killed the FBI agents in the Miami shootout in 1986 got some of their firearms that way.
Like I said. Rarely. If 31 years ago is the best you got . . .
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Old 04-15-2017, 08:20 PM
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Rarely . . .
Terrorist attacks are pretty rare here too.

That's cold comfort to the people in the Twin Towers, at Ft. Hood, in San Bernardino, in the Pulse Nightclub and at Ohio State.
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Old 04-15-2017, 08:22 PM
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Terrorist attacks are pretty rare here too.

That's cold comfort to the people in the Twin Towers, at Ft. Hood, in San Bernardino, in the Pulse Nightclub and at Ohio State.
So are Jarts in the eye. If I ran around scared of everything that might happen, I'd never leave the house (and bringing up the Twin Towers in a CCW discussion is just silly) . . .
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Old 04-15-2017, 08:25 PM
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I needed a concealed handgun twice in my life before I ever gave thought to becoming a LEO. Both times I was successful in telling bad guys (one time two and one time three of them) "Don't do That!". Neither time did I have to fire a shot. Both times without a handgun available to me I would have been seriously injured and once perhaps killed. Carrying concealed gives me an insurance that could (slight chance now, but still a chance) pay off big time. The only thing carrying concealed cost me is the use of one of my pockets for more junk. ....
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Old 04-15-2017, 08:29 PM
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Think of it as insurance. You have insurance for your car, but you're not planning on wrecking your car. You have insurance on your house, but you don't want to see it burned to the ground. Carrying a gun is another type of insurance that you will not be a victim of a violent crime.
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Old 04-15-2017, 08:50 PM
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I also believe there was a guy here 15-20 years ago, killing lone hunters.
I believe that was a guy in either Ohio or Pa. doing that.
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Old 04-15-2017, 08:50 PM
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Carrying a gun for protection is a personal choice, so if you don't want to that's perfectly fine. The vast majority of people don't have carry permits. Even people with carry permits don't carry all of the time.

I think part of the problem is that if you're visiting a forum where carrying guns is being discussed, don't be surprised that people are going to be discussing the carrying of guns. It's like visiting a hot rod forum and being surprised that people are discussing the virtues of different cam shafts. Discussion forums for particular topics will often have members discussing the minutiae of those topics.

As for me, I carry whenever possible. It's not always possible. My workplaces prohibit guns. I visit the Post Office on occasion. Very rarely I'll travel by plane. Sometimes I go places where carry is prohibited. I don't obsess about it, though. I see my gun as one tool in a personal security toolbox. It's not my only tool.
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Old 04-15-2017, 08:52 PM
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Like I said. Rarely. If 31 years ago is the best you got . . .
Who knows what is happening out there that hasn't been reported or discovered.......
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Old 04-15-2017, 08:57 PM
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Who knows what is happening out there that hasn't been reported or discovered.......
Agreed. Lots of people who may have been killed by lone hunters during an attempted firearms theft . . .
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Old 04-15-2017, 09:15 PM
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I have no intention of lugging a gun around with me every day. The 4 handguns I own (and shoot often) are too large and heavy to carry (41-44 oz.). A permit to carry does not mean you can't get your *** sued, and end up in the poor house.
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Old 04-15-2017, 09:17 PM
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I carry because chicks dig it.
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Old 04-15-2017, 09:21 PM
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Agreed. Lots of people who may have been killed by lone hunters during an attempted firearms theft . . .
Sir,

What we are saying is that it has happened before and may or can happen again. History.......tends to repeat and repeat.

AJ
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Old 04-15-2017, 09:27 PM
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Sir,

What we are saying is that it has happened before and may or can happen again. History.......tends to repeat and repeat.

AJ
History sort of repeats. Most historical events are unlikely to occur again due to the changing circumstances both inspired by and oblivious to those events, thus history is a poor judge of future events. People do tend to act in the same manner with regularity, but as far as the horrific events described herein previously, they're not going to repeat as they unfolded. It is safe to say that somebody somewhere will randomly shoot people soon, but so far as we might try to predict how that will happen . . .
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Old 04-15-2017, 09:36 PM
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Do you carry religiously? You may not be as safe as you believe. - www.GrantCunningham.com www.GrantCunningham.com
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