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Old 04-30-2017, 02:28 PM
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Default NRA's Carry Guard?

Has anyone taken a good look at the NRA Carry Guard insurance, and compared it to the other offerings? I suspect that this program is behind why USCCA was disinvited to the NRA Annual Meeting.

I am curious to how you see this plan.
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Old 04-30-2017, 05:07 PM
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I do not believe I like either. With Carry Guard, if you are charged with a crime (perish the thought) you have to pay for your own defense, as I read it, and they will pay you back if you are found not guilty. Who has $ 100,000 up front for a good defense lawyer? I sure don't. I do not plan on committing a crime, but I have seen how DA's work. You are at their mercy, I have seen good and bad ones. I have not studied the other company's offering but I think it is very tacky they way they were treated. I do not like that one bit. I have always championed victims of bullying, and come to their aid.
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Old 04-30-2017, 05:14 PM
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I have not read up fully on it yet. But one thing they all seem to have in common is they only cover when you act in your own self defense, or perhaps defense of your family. It doesn't appear to cover you if you act in the defense of another person. I think they are worried about encouraging people to get involved in situations that they can walk away from. As a retired cop it would be difficult for me to walk away from a situation where someone needed my help.
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Old 04-30-2017, 05:18 PM
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As I always state on these threads, I'd like to hear from somebody who has made a successful claim. Hasn't happened yet, but I'm gonna keep asking. Until then, I think I'll pass . . .
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Old 04-30-2017, 05:24 PM
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I have a CCW Safe membership so I was interested in what the NRA had to offer. Reading though their provisions I have decided I'll stick with what I have. The Carry Guard says they will cover your spouse at no extra charge, provided the incident occurs inside your house. How good is that once you leave the house??! Plus the carrier is Lockton Insurance...never heard of them.

Good comparisons here:

Quick Comparison of Service - CCW Safe National | CCW Safe Weapon Liability | CCW Safe Defense Attorneys

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Old 04-30-2017, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
As I always state on these threads, I'd like to hear from somebody who has made a successful claim. Hasn't happened yet, but I'm gonna keep asking. Until then, I think I'll pass . . .
A only one here. Guess S&W forum members lead pretty safe lives......

View testimonial For Leave a Testimony for CCW - CCW Safe National | CCW Safe Weapon Liability | CCW Safe Defense Attorneys
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Old 04-30-2017, 11:56 PM
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Thanks. I signed up for E-mails from Carry Safe. Want to see what they have.
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Old 07-31-2017, 06:35 PM
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As I always state on these threads, I'd like to hear from somebody who has made a successful claim. Hasn't happened yet, but I'm gonna keep asking. Until then, I think I'll pass . . .
I received this today in an E-mail from CCW Safe. It not from the individual, but from CCW Safe explaining how they successfully defended a member accused of murder.

Real Experience, Real World - CCW Safe National | CCW Safe Weapon Liability | CCW Safe Defense Attorneys
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Old 08-01-2017, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Lee in Quartzsite View Post
I received this today in an E-mail from CCW Safe. It not from the individual, but from CCW Safe explaining how they successfully defended a member accused of murder.

Real Experience, Real World - CCW Safe National | CCW Safe Weapon Liability | CCW Safe Defense Attorneys
So that's why I've yet to hear from a client. Only been one in the history of the industry, and it just happened . . .
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Old 08-01-2017, 10:00 AM
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When I renewed my Homeowners, Auto, Liability Ins. I spoke to the Company and they told me I am covered under my Umbrella Policy - minus my deductible of course.

I am a Lifetime Member of the NRA, however most of their programs are meant to benefit THEM and not us. I don't mind donating to the cause (and I do), by I do mind being led down the rosy path only to be holding the bag if and when I need their protection. I have found in the past if you need certain protection - get it from the "right" source - not someone who is looking to raise revenue for another fight or an entity that it is NOT their primary business.
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Old 08-01-2017, 10:31 AM
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When I renewed my Homeowners, Auto, Liability Ins. I spoke to the Company and they told me I am covered under my Umbrella Policy - minus my deductible of course.
Chief, I would urge you to read the policy or speak to someone more knowledgeable than the person you spoke with.

I have never, not once, seen evidence nor heard of any umbrella policy contract covering a defensive shooting (or other "intentional" act).

I have no dog in this fight and would love to hear evidence to the contrary, (as an umbrella policy holder myself), but I believe you have received bad information.
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Old 08-01-2017, 11:41 AM
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Here's a pretty good summary of issues and coverage regarding firearms by homeowner and umbrella polices.

Pay particular attention to the chart about halfway down as well as the section on "intentional shootings".
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Old 08-01-2017, 12:08 PM
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When I renewed my Homeowners, Auto, Liability Ins. I spoke to the Company and they told me I am covered under my Umbrella Policy - minus my deductible of course.
My insurance company (State Farm) tells me a lot of stuff. If I have a serious question about something, I get them to show it to me in writing, show me in the printed policy the parts that back up what an agent or an anonymous worker bee person in their call center tells me.
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Old 08-01-2017, 01:36 PM
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I have read the terms and conditions of NRA, USCC, and Law Shield policies. You best read them carefully before buying in. Get convicted of a crime in defending yourself, you don't get paid, and you have to pay back anything they advanced. They do not cover most legal costs but only reimburse them, if you comply with the terms and conditions. There are many pitfalls in their coverage but you have to read the small print of the policy not just the advertising claims.

Today at Rugertalk.com I read about CCW Safe. It sounds great compared to the others, but I have not looked at the small print yet. I am going to do that later today.

UPDATE: I looked into the terms and conditions of the CCW Safe product. It has none of the flaws of the other programs. It is not insurance based as are the others. It is a business service so no insurance company dealing through an association middleman. I am thorough about researching such things. That is why I never bought the other products. I am buying CCW Safe. Let me clear that I never heard of CCW Safe before today so obviously I have no connection to it. I will soon because I am buying the protection.

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Old 08-01-2017, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee in Quartzsite View Post
I have a CCW Safe membership so I was interested in what the NRA had to offer. Reading though their provisions I have decided I'll stick with what I have. The Carry Guard says they will cover your spouse at no extra charge, provided the incident occurs inside your house. How good is that once you leave the house??! Plus the carrier is Lockton Insurance...never heard of them.

Good comparisons here:

Quick Comparison of Service - CCW Safe National | CCW Safe Weapon Liability | CCW Safe Defense Attorneys
I believe that the actual underwriter is Chubb.
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Old 08-01-2017, 04:06 PM
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I have read the terms and conditions of NRA, USCC, and Law Shield policies. You best read them carefully before buying in. Get convicted of a crime in defending yourself, you don't get paid, and you have to pay back anything they advanced. They do not cover most legal costs but only reimburse them, if you comply with the terms and conditions. There are many pitfalls in their coverage but you have to read the small print of the policy not just the advertising claims.

Today at Rugertalk.com I epread about CCW Safe. It sounds great compared to the others, but I have not looked at the small print yet. I am going to do that later today.
Please share your findings with us once you have the opportunity to review the data.
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Old 08-01-2017, 07:17 PM
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Please share your findings with us once you have the opportunity to review the data.
One fact I know is that you must have a valid concealed carry permit. If a defensive shooting occurs it must be in a State that recognizes your valid permit. In other words, my Arizona permit is not recognized by California, so if I defended myself in that State I would not be defended by CCW Safe. I very seldom travel to CA anymore, and if I do I never have a loaded weapon in the car or on my person. My last trip to CA I went unarmed. I also have a valid Nevada permit, so I am covered in almost every State East of CA, OR and WA...and West of the East Coast. It pays to know one's limitations.....

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Old 08-01-2017, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee in Quartzsite View Post
One fact I know is that you must have a valid concealed carry permit. If a defensive shooting occurs it must be in a State that recognizes your valid permit. In other words, my Arizona permit is not recognized by California, so if I defended myself in that State I would not be defended by CCW Safe. I very seldom travel to CA anymore, and if I do I never have a loaded weapon in the car or on my person. My last trip to CA I went unarmed. I also have a valid Nevada permit, so I am covered in almost every State East of CA, OR and WA...and West of the East Coast. It pays to know one's limitations.....
Based upon my research today I agree. I have no problem with that because if you are breaking the law by carrying you really do not deserve coverage.
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Old 08-01-2017, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee in Quartzsite View Post
One fact I know is that you must have a valid concealed carry permit. If a defensive shooting occurs it must be in a State that recognizes your valid permit. In other words, my Arizona permit is not recognized by California, so if I defended myself in that State I would not be defended by CCW Safe. I very seldom travel to CA anymore, and if I do I never have a loaded weapon in the car or on my person. My last trip to CA I went unarmed. I also have a valid Nevada permit, so I am covered in almost every State East of CA, OR and WA...and West of the East Coast. It pays to know one's limitations.....
They also have an LEO / Military policy for carrying under LEOSA or state permit. The coverage is different for that particular policy from my cursory reading thus far. And while it doesn't offer coverage for judgments, it does offer bail payment as well as trial costs.

I am already covered under a policy for retired federal law enforcement officers but there are pros and cons to each policy I have reviewed. CCW Safe is something I may look into further.
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Old 08-01-2017, 10:41 PM
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I was a USCCA member for about 2 years and after researching CCW Safe I cancelled USCCA and have joined CCW Safe.
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Old 08-05-2017, 04:51 PM
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Thanks for this information Lee. I went with CCW Safe after previously having USCCA for two years @ $360 a year. I got tired of them charging so much so they could give guns away. CCW Safe costs 2/3 less than USCCA and provides much better coverage. USCCA does have a good magazine though. One other note, CCW Safe states that their representatives and counselors all have experience in personal selfdefense incidents, many are retired LEOs, or military.

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Old 08-10-2017, 08:23 PM
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I received another E-mail today detailing the case of Stephen Maddox who was represented in court by CCW Safe and found not guilty of murder. Worth watching.


From the WRAL Newscast
Durham man found not guilty in Wilson shooting :: WRAL.com
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Old 08-22-2017, 02:40 PM
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Another CCWSafe liker here.
They cover bail, expenses, send the lawyers and investigators,etc. to where you are at.
As I understand it, there are no out of pocket expenses.
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Old 08-22-2017, 04:36 PM
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Another CCWSafe liker here.
They cover bail, expenses, send the lawyers and investigators,etc. to where you are at.
As I understand it, there are no out of pocket expenses.
So is this going to change people's opinions that to exercise your right to self-defense you MUST carry insurance? For example, if you drive a car you have to have insurance SO now if you carry a gun you do too?

It is a slippery slope making gun ownership more difficult...
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Old 08-22-2017, 05:14 PM
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I am NOT a lawyer...NOT a lawyer but it was explained to me by a lawyer that you cannot purchase insurance for a 'crime' that has not occurred which is probably why a policy would reimburse you if found innocent or something like that.
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Old 08-22-2017, 05:39 PM
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Sad that the NRA is shilling for insurance.

How much do you imagine the NRA makes on this stuff?

Becoming AARP like.

Last edited by Rpg; 08-22-2017 at 07:06 PM.
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Old 08-23-2017, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
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As I always state on these threads, I'd like to hear from somebody who has made a successful claim. Hasn't happened yet, but I'm gonna keep asking. Until then, I think I'll pass . . .
Years ago USCCA asked me whether I'd want to be one of their on-call lawyers. I work for the state and I can't, but referred them to one of the guys whose numbers I keep in my personal phone (a friend from law school who does really excellent work at a reasonable rate - have sent dozens of friends/family members to him over the years, and they all loved him).

Last summer my friend mentioned that their Law Shield crew had hired him to defend a felony Assault with a Firearm (essentially unwarranted brandishing was alleged) case here in town. He was successful (the jury decided the brandishing was warranted) and USCCA totally took care of his bill.

FWIW.
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Old 08-23-2017, 12:58 PM
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I see Carry Guard as a tasteless money making scheme. I'm embarrassed for my NRA.
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Old 08-23-2017, 02:23 PM
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Oh, come now: at least it's firearms-related!

Remember a few years back when they were huckstering a wine club! (Because nothing says "elegant living" like sipping a wine advertised next to a Woodsman's Pal and tow-behind brush clearer: "Oh Jeeves! Order me some of this delicious-looking cabernet and one of these Sneaky Petes . . . "sneaky pete," heh, that's so clever!") For a while there I was really starting to wonder about whether the NRA should pay us to be counted among their members, because it looked like it had turned into a big marketing scheme: Now Really Amway.

Anyhow, I thought their foray into this insurance idea really democratized the concept, for what it's worth. And I do think it's in line with their mission.
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Old 08-23-2017, 03:44 PM
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When I renewed my Homeowners, Auto, Liability Ins. I spoke to the Company and they told me I am covered under my Umbrella Policy - minus my deductible of course.
That advice is likely inaccurate for a self defense shooting, but accurate for a negligent shooting (ie, a negligent discharge).

Insurance policies exclude coverage for intentional acts. Self defense is an intentional act. You get attacked, then you intentionally draw your weapon, intentionally aim and intentionally fire to stop the threat. Thus, insurance excludes coverage for self defense, as a general statement.

However, homeowners and umbrella policies insure against negligence. If you have a negligent discharge, and hit a person with your projectile, your homeowners or umbrella policy should provide a civil defense for you (but not a defense against a criminal charge. Criminal acts are intentional).

If you shoot somebody, you can have both a criminal and a civil case prosecuted against you, because every crime is also a tort (a civil wrong, not related to breach of contract).

It is against the public policy (and law) of every state in the USA to insure for damages caused by a criminal act. Thus, before a policy like the USCCA policy can insure you for a self defense shooting, you must first prove that you did not commit a criminal act, ie, your shooting was a justified self defense shooting. We do not want criminals to do their dirty work, then call upon an insurance company to pay the damages.

Pre-paid legal service plans can cover your attorney fees for a self defense shooting from Day One, as they operate under different rules than do insurers.

These comments are general statements, and should not be construed as specific legal advice for any individual.
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