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Old 05-06-2017, 06:23 AM
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Default Armed Patron Stops Gunman in Texas Sports Bar

Well, I guess we'll find out how this 51% thing in Texas is gonna play out.


I'd like to see those pesky 51% signs come down by new and improved legislation.


Hero maybe, or a good guy with a firearm that stoped a bad guy with a gun from killing more innocent folks.



'Hero' stopped mass murder by crazed bar patron who was armed to the teeth, police say | Arlington | Dallas News




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Old 05-06-2017, 06:39 AM
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Good post Dave. We need more good guys with guns to stop bad guys
with guns. Don't mess with Texas.
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Old 05-06-2017, 08:24 AM
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The news is reporting the sports bar was not posted with the 51% sign. It appears that they sold more food than alcohol. The shooter also had another loaded pistol and a couple of knives on his possession.
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Old 05-06-2017, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Maddog 521 View Post
The news is reporting the sports bar was not posted with the 51% sign. It appears that they sold more food than alcohol. The shooter also had another loaded pistol and a couple of knives on his possession.

That good news right there, glad it was outside that hindrance of state over-reach.








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Old 05-06-2017, 09:33 AM
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Chalk up a win for the good guy.
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Old 05-06-2017, 10:35 AM
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Saw this story too and immediately wondered the same thing about the "carrying in a bar" question. Glad to hear it appears the good guy was legally armed, but in any event, how fortunate for the other patrons that he stepped up at a time when they all were threatened and ended it.
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Old 05-06-2017, 11:05 AM
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As I understood the reports, there is a restaurant area, and that was where the CHL guy and wife were having dinner.
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Old 05-06-2017, 11:06 AM
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The police spokesman said, "We're treating the good guy as sort of a hero."

Well, I should hope to heck they are because he certainly is one. No telling how many lives that guy saved just by acting responsibly. Like crazyphil said, we need more guys like him.
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Old 05-08-2017, 04:57 PM
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Great news!
Yep, the cops are usually only minutes away when seconds count. Armed, level-headed citizens are an effective force multiplier!
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Old 05-08-2017, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Lou View Post
Great news!
Yep, the cops are usually only minutes away when seconds count. Armed, level-headed citizens are an effective force multiplier!



Any man with the intestinal fortitude to stand up to evil...


Has my respect.




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Old 05-08-2017, 07:47 PM
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Better to have a good guy with a gun then a policeman on the phone.
I call him a hero.
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Old 05-08-2017, 09:29 PM
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Here in Texas we still have not heard much about the type of guns involved, how many times the shooter was shot.......not morbid details just wanting facts so we can learn from these situations.
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Old 05-08-2017, 09:52 PM
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Kudos to the young man! Well done.
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Old 05-09-2017, 09:20 AM
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I lived in a small rural community in SE Az for almost 60yrs . In the late 90's , on a sunday a young man w/a conceal carry permit was working a mini mart/ gas station at the edge of a town 25 mi's from me . A cadilllac drove by , then came back . The driver walked in , pulled out a gun . The clerk pulled his gun and fired hitting the driver in the shoulder . The driver fled . The clerk called police , they found the driver at our local hospital . He was wanted in Texas for assaulting/killing a young girl that had worked at a fast food place .
The county AG in Az decided to try and prosecute the store clerk , believe it or not . Anyway , when the sheriffs dept and the local citizens heard about it in that lil texas town . They sent word back to our local AG telling him to send that boy to texas cause they wanted to have a parade for him and called him a hero . The county AG was so embarrassed that he dropped the case . Az was pretty messed up through the 90's , gun law wise .
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Old 05-09-2017, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by keith44spl View Post
Well, I guess we'll find out how this 51% thing in Texas is gonna play out.
We elected not to go down that road in Ohio.

The ban on carrying in liquor serving venues was repealed. You're simply forbidden to consume alcohol while carrying.

To the great disappointment of the anti-gun cult, there haven't been John Wu style shootouts at Friday's across the state.
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Old 05-09-2017, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmort666 View Post
We elected not to go down that road in Ohio.

The ban on carrying in liquor serving venues was repealed. You're simply forbidden to consume alcohol while carrying.

To the great disappointment of the anti-gun cult, there haven't been John Wu style shootouts at Friday's across the state.
Ohio is helping us who choose to CARRY giving us the ability to protect our loved ones and others in need.

The more people who carry legally sends a message to those who want to break the law and harm others.

Buckeye forever.
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Old 05-09-2017, 10:01 AM
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Ohio is helping us who choose to CARRY giving us the ability to protect our loved ones and others in need.

The more people who carry legally sends a message to those who want to break the law and harm others.

Buckeye forever.
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Old 05-09-2017, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmort666 View Post
We elected not to go down that road in Ohio.

The ban on carrying in liquor serving venues was repealed. You're simply forbidden to consume alcohol while carrying.

To the great disappointment of the anti-gun cult, there haven't been John Wu style shootouts at Friday's across the state.
PA has never had this. There is no law against being armed and in a bar. Also there is no law against drinking and carrying. And yet in all this time there have been no John Wu or Matrix style shootouts.

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Old 05-09-2017, 11:10 AM
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I'm not one to thumb my nose at the statues.....
And some day, I may have to answer to a court of law in this land for my choices.


But, on Judgment Day, I will answer, that I did choose a means to defend my
family and others that might be innocent and defenseless in any
difficulties that may come to be my lot in this ol life. I pray that in this, I do not fail.




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Old 05-11-2017, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmort666 View Post
We elected not to go down that road in Ohio.

The ban on carrying in liquor serving venues was repealed. You're simply forbidden to consume alcohol while carrying.

To the great disappointment of the anti-gun cult, there haven't been John Wu style shootouts at Friday's across the state.
That's a stupid law. I can't defend myself if I've had a drink and I get acosted? Bullsnot . . .
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Old 05-12-2017, 08:21 AM
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That's a stupid law. I can't defend myself if I've had a drink and I get acosted? Bullsnot . . .
Nothing says "good judgment and maturity" like a loaded gun and alcohol...
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Old 05-12-2017, 08:41 AM
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Nothing says "good judgment and maturity" like a loaded gun and alcohol...
Because alcohol automatically means fall down drunk, puke and pass out. It can't possibly be a glass of wine with dinner. So after enjoying dinner I'm not allowed to defend myself? I'll probably just have the urge to do a few drive bys with automatic weapons.

What's to stop me from having a drink at home, grabbing a rifle and shooting out my window?
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Old 05-12-2017, 09:19 AM
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Hope that the man who stopped the shooting comes out of this ok. Waiting to see what develops.
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Old 05-12-2017, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
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Because alcohol automatically means fall down drunk, puke and pass out.
No, because it automatically means altered state of mind, no matter to what degree.

It also means "complicating factor" in any use of deadly force.

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It can't possibly be a glass of wine with dinner.
It could, but that doesn't change anything. A hostile prosecutor will still portray you as impaired, as will the attorney for the mutant survivors of the drooling beast who tried to slaughter you and your family.

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So after enjoying dinner I'm not allowed to defend myself? I'll probably just have the urge to do a few drive bys with automatic weapons.
You're allowed to do whatever's legal.

Whether it's a good idea is another matter.
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I'll probably just have the urge to do a few drive bys with automatic weapons.
If that's the case, I'd stop drinking if I were you. There are some good programs that will help with that.

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What's to stop me from having a drink at home, grabbing a rifle and shooting out my window?
Nothing.

I don't HAVE to have a drink to enjoy dinner out. In fact, I'll be dining out tonight, carrying a handgun. I won't be consuming any alcohol, both because it's unlawful here, and I consider it a bad idea.

Some of us place a higher priority on being able to defend ourselves than on consuming alcohol at any given instant. Others disagree.

If it's legal to carry and drink where you are, as we used to say in the 2nd Infantry Division, "Let your conscience be your guide."
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Old 05-12-2017, 09:45 AM
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These are always the articles we like to hear but its to bad that most of the TV media will never really once talk about it. And if they do it will get twisted I seem like the good guy was bad and did a very bad thing.

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Old 05-12-2017, 09:56 AM
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These are always the articles we like to hear but its to bad that most of the TV media will never really once talk about it. And if they do it will get twisted I seem like the good guy was bad and did a very bad thing.
They consider the good guy "bad" because he resisted somebody whom they consider "good".

To those on the other side, it's not the robber, rapist or murderer who's "bad". It's the victim or a bystander who resists with force. They have an incandescent hatred of the VICTIMS of violent crime, NOT the PERPETRATORS.

Thwarting a violent attacker with violence is considered, "unfair", and "unnatural". To them (as well as the mutant families and "posses" of the predators), you have an affirmative DUTY to be a victim.
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Old 05-12-2017, 10:41 AM
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Default Interesting...

...that some seem to believe carrying a gun somehow prohibits/limits enjoyment of another altogether LEGAL activity.

Be safe.
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Old 05-12-2017, 10:46 AM
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...that some seem to believe carrying a gun somehow prohibits/limits enjoyment of another altogether LEGAL activity.
The next thing you know, somebody will want to control your alcohol intake prior to (and while) driving...
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Old 05-12-2017, 10:51 AM
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The next thing you know, somebody will want to control your alcohol intake prior to (and while) driving...
You can drink and drive. There is a legal limit. Depending on your body you may be able to have a few more. You can have a beer or a glass of wine and still drive. Legal limit here is 0.08

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Old 05-12-2017, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
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You can drink and drive.
Up to a point.

What should that point be for carrying a firearm?
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Old 05-12-2017, 10:56 AM
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Exactly, "up to a point". A beer with dinner doesn't make you fall down sloppy drunk

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Old 05-12-2017, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
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Exactly, "up to a point". A beer with dinner doesn't make you fall down sloppy drunk
You didn't answer my question.

What SHOULD that point be?
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Old 05-12-2017, 11:04 AM
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Personally I didn't care what it should be. I should be allowed to defend myself regardless. So whether that's 100% alcohol blood level or anything else.

But if you can operate a motor vehicle with 0.07 how does that make you suddenly impaired to defend yourself

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Old 05-12-2017, 11:04 AM
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" . . . shall not be infringed."
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Old 05-12-2017, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Arik View Post
Personally I didn't care what it should be.
I didn't ask you if you cared.

I asked you what it should be.

0.00?

0.12?

If it's going to be "something", that needs to be quantified.
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Old 05-12-2017, 11:20 AM
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Fine. 100%

You should be able to replace all of your blood with 100% alcohol and still be allowed to defend yourself

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Old 05-12-2017, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
" . . . shall not be infringed."
WHAT "shall not be infringed"?

The right to get drunk in public and shoot innocent bystanders?

You are also guaranteed the right to travel. Does that mean you can drink a fifth of Seagrams and go for a drive... or while you go for a drive?
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Old 05-12-2017, 11:22 AM
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Driving is not a right, it's a privilege.

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Old 05-12-2017, 11:26 AM
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WHAT "shall not be infringed"?

The right to get drunk in public and shoot innocent bystanders?
There is no "right" to do either of the hyperbolic things you mentioned. The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. I know I've read that somewhere, recently . . .
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Old 05-12-2017, 11:29 AM
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Fine. 100%

You should be able to replace all of your blood with 100% alcohol and still be allowed to defend yourself
If you are dead of alcohol poisoning, you lack the physical ability to defend yourself.

It's entirely possible for you to:
  1. be found justified in using deadly force and not prosecuted for using deadly force.
  2. be found guilty of carrying while intoxicated, if and however that is defined by law.
The fact that you cannot or will not posit a reasonable limit means that you don't believe in a limit. If that's the case, you should just be honest and say so.

If the law allows you to drink and carry, whether it's a sake cup full of 3.2% beer or a couple of pints of Beefeater, it's your choice whether to do so or not.

That doesn't change the fact that I think it's a bad idea and recommend against it, or deny me might right to say so.
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Old 05-12-2017, 11:37 AM
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There is no "right" to do either of the hyperbolic things you mentioned. The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. I know I've read that somewhere, recently . . .
But there's a right to be falling down drunk with a firearm in public?

If not, what should the BA limit be?
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Old 05-12-2017, 11:39 AM
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It's called discretion. The older I get, the less margin for error. My reflexes and eyesight aren't what they were when I was 30. I include that in my decision whether to impair those functions further, even slightly, with alcohol.

Even at 30, I can recall being pressured by the host at a business dinner I attended with my wife to enjoy a glass of wine. He was unphased by my protest that I was the on-call detective for my department.

Everybody makes a decision and accepts that it may have unpleasant consequences. I'm glad we can discuss these issues here and consider our choices before we have to act.
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Old 05-12-2017, 11:53 AM
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Even at 30, I can recall being pressured by the host at a business dinner I attended with my wife to enjoy a glass of wine. He was unphased by my protest that I was the on-call detective for my department.
Once at a wedding, my mother literally DEMANDED that I drink.

I was in the Army at the time and told her that I wasn't interested in getting a DUI and being thrown out of the Army. Her response? "They can't do that." That certainly would have been news to the several EMs we'd just discharged for exactly that. There was a nasty argument about it. I still didn't drink.

I drink. I like to drink.

There are things more important to me than drinking.

Being able to effectively defend myself in public without giving sociopaths an opportunity to persecute me for doing so is one of them.
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Old 05-12-2017, 12:09 PM
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But there's a right to be falling down drunk with a firearm in public?
There is in Missouri. I love this state . . .
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Old 05-12-2017, 12:14 PM
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There is in Missouri. I love this state . . .
And Mizzou is bursting at the seems with thugs.

I still kind of like Missouri.
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Old 05-12-2017, 12:16 PM
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And Mizzou is bursting at the seems with thugs.
No. We're pretty much like everybody else. Some good, some bad, most okay. And no drunken shootouts in bars, other than the ones that were always gonna happen . . .
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Old 05-12-2017, 01:19 PM
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Tennessee is a bit vague on the subject of "under the influence" in regard to carrying.

It's is an offense for a person to possess a handgun while under the influence of alcohol or any controlled substance. But its not specifically defined how under the influence of alcohol is measured as with driving vehicles which is BAC .08.

As far as just consumption of alcohol and gun possession, the only offense i'm aware of is when a person carrying a gun is both in an establishment that serves alcohol and consuming. In a bar and take a sip... an offense.

As far as I know, there is no law limiting self defense to only sober persons or otherwise in lawful possession of a gun. In Knoxville a few years back, a convicted felon in possession of a gun shot and killed an armed robber. Curiously, there weren't even possession charges that Im aware of. The Feds could have done something. I don't know.

The people I surround myself with don't go on stabbing or shooting sprees while having a drink so I'm not that informed on the topic "what if". Cheers..
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Old 05-14-2017, 09:16 PM
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The problem, which Missouri has addressed, is what happens when you've have a couple of drinks, and all of a sudden need to defend yourself . . .

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Tennessee is a bit vague on the subject of "under the influence" in regard to carrying.

It's is an offense for a person to possess a handgun while under the influence of alcohol or any controlled substance. But its not specifically defined how under the influence of alcohol is measured as with driving vehicles which is BAC .08.

As far as just consumption of alcohol and gun possession, the only offense i'm aware of is when a person carrying a gun is both in an establishment that serves alcohol and consuming. In a bar and take a sip... an offense.

As far as I know, there is no law limiting self defense to only sober persons or otherwise in lawful possession of a gun. In Knoxville a few years back, a convicted felon in possession of a gun shot and killed an armed robber. Curiously, there weren't even possession charges that Im aware of. The Feds could have done something. I don't know.

The people I surround myself with don't go on stabbing or shooting sprees while having a drink so I'm not that informed on the topic "what if". Cheers..
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Old 05-16-2017, 11:30 AM
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I'd rather be around an armed man who'd had a couple of beers than a dry drunk.
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Old 05-16-2017, 12:08 PM
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I doubt a beer or two would impair most.
Although, we all know that 'Who Shot John' don't go with guns or so they say.


But, there's always a few that has to get ' Ten Feet Tall & Bullet Proof ' before theys figure it out.






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