Did you know Pat Rogers too? I don't know if they were there at the same time or not.

Mas' writings and advice are precisely why I carry a BUG daily, an airweight 38 Special +P in an ankle holster along with my EDC.

As they say, better to have it and not need it...

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Too many S&W's to mention...

AimHigher, spot on!

In thirty (30) years of big city crime fighting NEVER had a need for a second handgun...ever.

Moreover, in many hundreds of hours of range time I have NEVER had a non-intentional fail to fire or misfire.

Be safe.

Bob, if you ever get the chance I'd love to hear some stories.

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Sure you did

Where did you find this photo of me ??

I watched this video and it raised a question that I can't find the answer to, plus I had never heard before.
It was the point he made about in at least 40 states that it is illegal to carry more than one handgun.
Is this true? If so, its news to me. I found nothing about it for Virginia.

Have a Model 36 and 49. Decided to try it once. Got a left handed belt slide and packed them both. Wasn't at all comfortable, never did it again. If I figure I need more than 5 rounds, I'll pack my full size M&P.

In my "Limited" experience the times I was involved in deadly encounters I wished I had something belt fed.

Before my NYPD retirement I started a wholesale woman's clothing business where I needed to go into the old loft buildings in Manhattan's garment center away from the bright light of 7th Ave.

I developed a habit of putting my Colt DS in my coat pocket and kept my hand on it whenever possible.when out and about.

On evening in late fall I entered a very small 2-3 passenger elevator in a run down turn of the century loft building heading to the 7th floor.

The elevator stopped on the second floor and as the door opened a man steeped in and quickly sliced the front of my coat open clear to my undershirt.Without thinking I emptied the 6 rounds from the DS into the assailants chest and then had an empty gun and would have been dead meat had there been an accomplice.

Reloading or getting a 2nd gun out of an ankle holster in that confined space would have near impossible to do quickly enough.

I had no idea I had fired all 6 until until the smoke had cleared.

I put the gun back in my pocket and waited for uniforms to arrive and see me in civilian clothes with only my shield in my hands.Friendly fire at me was in my thoughts.

No cell phones in those days.A UPS guy called 911 and was glad it wasn't him in the elevator.

On stake outs I had my model 10 holstered on my right hip,a pre 70 1911 government model in a Seven Trees shoulder holster and my DS on my left side.An Ithica M37 12ga was at my side.On stake outs we wore a uniform hat,again to avoid friendly fire.

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NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

I just googled jimmyj 2017!

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

I've pocket-carried a .38 Special J-frame for a good many years, as my only gun. I'm old and in declining health and don't get our a great deal. Recently, however, as the area around where I live gets rougher and the homicide rate in my city goes up, I've considered a backup.

I would keep the J-frame, a 640 I trust implicitly; but I would perhaps carry a Ruger LCP IWB. Not ideal, but unobtrusive and easy to carry.

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Oh well, what the hell.

*After more than half of my life as a copper carrying two guns, I still can't stop.
I carry a sig 228 in an El Paso snapoff rig OTB, and a model 40, an honest steel pistol, in my weak hand back pocket. I also still carry two spare mags on my weak side in a Don Hume spring held mag pouch. The model 40 isn't going to be reloaded; it's for if the Sig takes a dump. The model 40 is also to be shot weak-handed from that back pocket draw.

It is rare that only one firearm is with me

Not always enough
Any guess what brand of holsters this man is using?

I have carried the NY Reload holster and like it very much. The weight of two Smith and Wesson 640s is about the same as the loaded Goverment model that was the first gun I carried concealed.
One of the great things about this holster is that you can draw one at a time or both together with little trouble also you have a crossdraw while you are driving.

For as long as I can remember, there has been at least one J-frame with me every day of my adult life. I have also kept one or more spare firearm in the passenger compartment of the vehicle I drive. This is usually within easy reach while seated

This is more than I have ever needed. Hopefully it will stay that way for all of us.

In the Great State of Texas, as long as they meet the definition of a legal hand gun, you can carry as many or as few handguns as you want.

Regards,

Dave

This Gentleman in a white dinner jacket is not a fan of reloading

When I was a kid I had a summer job working for a trucking company on 35th St. Conboy, maybe?????? I forgot the name.
I went from garment maker to garment maker picking up packages with a hand truck and bringing them back to the trucking company.
Seeing all the beautiful women walking the streets in Manhattan was a bonus. I loved the job

We may have even crossed paths.

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Sure you did

I finally got around to watching this video. There are a couple of points that he doesn't address in favor of carrying a back-up gun.

1. Offhand-side access. He demonstrates drawing his primary gun from his right side holster using his left hand. This is a valid technique. I practice it both going around the front and around the back. I use a clip IWB holster and while some people don't like them because they can shift, that ability to move does help when performing an offhand draw.

However, there is one problem with this approach: Not everybody has the mobility/flexibility to perform this draw. While I can perform this draw, I'll admit some days are more difficult than others due to soreness, joint stiffness, etc. Others may be even more restricted, whether it's due to injury, arthritis, etc. In situations like this, having a BUG available to the offhand can be beneficial.

2. This is the single biggest omission as far as I'm concerned. One of the most important reasons for carrying a BUG, and the reason that most interests me, is in the event one's primary gun doesn't work. Granted, a well-maintained, good quality gun, loaded with good quality ammo, is highly unlikely to malfunction under most circumstances. But it is a possibility, and one's options are to clear the malfunction or draw a BUG. I would've liked to have seen him do a comparison between clearing a malfunction and drawing a BUG.

Revolvers are generally very reliable (as well as semi-autos), but they can malfunction. While there are malfunction clearing drills for the revolver, a better solution would be to draw a BUG. Even with a semi-auto, it may be quicker to draw a BUG than attempt to clear a malfunction, especially something like a double-feed. Plus, there are some malfunctions that can't be cleared. For example, my first 642-1 broke it's hammer stud. I'm glad I discovered it while dry firing instead of during a life-threatening situation.

Does that mean everyone who carries a gun should carry two (or more)? That's for each person to decide, based on their own situation. But I don't think it's something that should be dismissed without consideration.

And if a police officer or prosecutor decides to make an issue out of someone legally carrying more than one gun, it shouldn't be too difficult to find instances where a BUG helped someone survive a violent encounter. Massad Ayoob and his Ayoob Files would likely be a good resource on this matter. If necessary, one's attorney could probably subpoena someone from the police department, such as a firearms instructor, and find out what their policy is regarding BUGs. Not to mention instructors who advocate, or at least recommend, carrying a BUG, even for non-LE.

Final point: While I'm not an expert on the carry laws of all 50 states, the only one I'm aware of that specifically prohibits carrying more than one gun concealed is New Mexico. As always, check your local and state laws to make sure before carrying multiple guns.

So much good input. And I agree with you on your points. That reaching around the back with your off hand move is to me, not necessarily as easy as he made it out. He had his holster moved pretty far back, and it was OWB. I never carry owb. And I'm not usually that far back with it. I could maybe still do it, but for me it seems way slower and harder to do than an offiside pocket.

And yeah, a big argument for a BUG is if the primary goes down.

Most of the US has several months of varying degrees of cold weather.Where is your carry piece when you are bundled up for the cold.How quickly can you get to it and fire effectively? Where's your reload ammo at,Where's the 2nd weapon.

How quickly can you reload with gloves on.

Emptying my DS in that elevator wearing heavy winter clothing opened my eyes to something I never gave much thought to;six would be enough.

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NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

I AM A DISABLED VIETNAM VETERAN, WITH ONLY ONE ARM / HAND IN OPERATING CONDITION---MY LEFT. I CARRY A 2 1/2" 686+ IN A CROSSDRAW BELT HOLSTER ON MY RIGHT SIDE, AND A 642 IN A POCKET HOLSTER, ON MY LEFT SIDE.....

WITH A NEW YORK RELOAD, I HAVE 12 ROUNDS IMMEDIATELY AVAILABLE. A PAIR OF BIANCHI SPEED STRIPS IN A BELT POUCH, ON MY LEFT SIDE, AFFORDS ME 12 MORE ROUNDS, FOR A COMPLETE RELOAD OF BOTH GUNS--PERHAPS, FROM A SAFER POSITION, BEHIND COVER.......

APPROACHING THE END OF THOSE 24 ROUNDS, ITS TIME FOR THIS OL' SOLDIER TO CALL FOR DUST OFF.......

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'Nam 1968-69.DAV,VFW,NRA Inst.

Beautiful set up and thank you for serving Sir!!!!!

My only issue with carrying in my coat pocket is: What do you do when you take your coat off indoors? Doesn't seem like a good idea to leave it in the coat. And pulling a gun out of your coat pocket in the church foyer might not be ideal. And you'd have to have a second place to put it.

My question was how do you get at it quickly if needed while wearing heavy winter apparel;a 3/4 length parka for example if it's inside your pants pocket or waist band and where's the extra ammo located?

It's usually boils down to doing what you can with what you have.

I never felt the need to carry 2 guns while off duty but I did carry most of the time with the exceptions of in bed or in the shower.

After Cirillo was attacked while taking out the garbage while pocket carrying his cobra(dead bad guy),I carried at home and took better care of the DS.

Jimmy was like a magnet attacting dirtbags.

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NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

I was just reading some blogs from DeBetthencourt and he said for winter he cuts the pocket out on the overjacket so he can draw without unbuttoning. Pretty slick.

And he said he typically carries AIWB and one in an ankle holster. Sounds like when he's training he just does OWB strong side.

SnubTraining.com – What to carry and where – Part 1 – snubtraining.com

Thanks to jimmyj and StakeOut for giving this info.

Poster cadmike said, "For me, I would carry one hicap semiauto before I'd carry 2 revolvers."

And that was what I was going to say. I went from a Mod 60 to a Beretta Nano with an extra magazine and more than doubled my round count.

IMHO a semi-auto & extra mag is the here and now of CCW.

(I will probably get Banned and thrown out of the SWCA for that statement!)

GF

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SWCA #2420

As long as everything runs perfect and you never have a problem and you don't have to arm someone els, your good to go.

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Two Handguns every day

Revolvers, as much as I enjoy them, have lots of parts and are not immune from malfunctions deriving from those parts or issues deriving from ammunition which can cause a round not to go bang or prevent the cylinder from turning.

An extra mag for a semi goes a long way toward resolving many more common issues but nothing is perfect, especially nothing mechanical and so we train and hope for the best by practicing with and maintaining our firearms.

I trust my S&W revolvers as I do my Glocks but realize that Mr. Murphy can visit at any time and often will.

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642-1, M&P15 TS

That's why we carry a back up.

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Two Handguns every day

I often did on the job. I rarely do now. But I'd never tell anyone not to carry a backup or that it was overkill because you just never know. Each person will have to decide for themselves where the threshold lies.

When I carry a semi-auto I carry a spare mag.

When I carry my revolver I carry a speed strip.

Maybe it's being retired and living outside of a small town in a semi-rural environment. (That said, I'm not lazy nor do I fail to scan for potential threats. Low crime is not the same as no crime.)

Around home and walking distances I'm perfectly fine with my 642. Or sometimes my 686+ during periods when I feel a little more firepower might be called for. (Critter related for the most part in our forested environment.)

When I go up to NYC to visit family, a G26 and a spare mag will be my walking around firearm though I'll probably have the 642 in my pocket for the ride up.

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642-1, M&P15 TS

In fifty adult years of big-and-small-city-non-crime-fighting, I have never had a need for a first handgun (except for that one cottonmouth in eastern NC, outside the city, when the floodwaters rose - TC Contender .44 HotShot cut him in half). Doesn't mean I don't carry a gun.

I, too, have hundreds of hours of range time. I HAVE had misfires, even with revolvers (at least two, NOT counting old ammo, and one of them tied up the revolver completely - a pierced primer with a 547 and new commercial ammo). Autos?

When I carry an auto, I carry a second gun. When I carry a revolver, I SHOULD carry a second gun, but I don't always.

OP: The first place to carry a second gun is on the ankle. More accessible when seated, accessible in an automobile. For a NY reload, pick what works for you, and practice. Your appendix carry is already not the most common, although there are many points in favor of it. It might be my first choice for third gun. You should pick one of the common choices for first gun. Not sure I even understand why you are asking everyone else's opinion on where to park your second gun, since you didn't follow their opinions on where to park your first one. Not saying you are wrong, at all, just wondering why you asked.

Go straight to the little boys' room, like you need to. Have a second place to put it. Ankle? Other ankle?

Check with StakeOut to be sure, but my limited experience with guntoters, and people in general, is that folks smart enough to carry a gun where it might be needed are smart enough to figure out how to do so.

I like having a backup in case you can't physically access your primary, or have a malfunction that you don't have time to fix, or you have to arm a second person. I'm not that concerned about ammo capacity, you almost never hear of a concealed carrier having to fire more than a few rounds or reload.

To me the best backup is a snubby revolver in your pocket, something you can get a grip on without anyone noticing and that still works at contact distance.

In all my years of shooting I never had a center fire pistol round fail to go bang.Not true with rim fire.

Those 100+ degree days are plentiful here in Texas so when I'm in just a T-shirt,shorts and flip flops I only pocket carry my SR22 loaded with 10rds CCI HS ammo.

I'm confident enough in myself and the weapon to rely on it's 10rds and a spare mag.

In range practice I sometimes use Federal Champion blue box ammo to practice jacking the slide from semi auto failures due to ammo.

That Federal Champion is ****.

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NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

Every thing has a purpose in life.

Funny, I haven't had any problem with that ammo (9mm) but have recently had some issues with Blazer Brass. (The last box out of a case was severely under powered to the point of a variety of malfunctions with a G-19.)

You just never know.

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642-1, M&P15 TS

I read those books,actually I read them twice. I like them a lot.

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Two Handguns every day

OK, I'll try to be respectful when answering this questing but I'll admit, you got my ire up.

I didn't think I saw ALL people telling me to carry strong side in this thread. I should maybe go back and look if that is really the case. So... using your logic I'm supposed to do whatever people have said here? I can't ask to figure out what good ideas are out there and make up my own mind and do what I feel is best for me?

AIWB has been recommended by people that seem to know a thing or two. I just put a link up in my last post to a well known snub revolver training guy who said he carries AIWB and ankle. AIWB seems to me to be common. An article written in the American Handgunner 2014 Special Edition Tactical Annual by a gentleman named Robert Kolesar recommends carrying a snubby AIWB. Which that article, incidentally, has a picture I took of my Colt Detective special. It's the biggest picture in the article and I'm infinitely proud of that.

I don't think you'd have to look real far for someone to consider AIWB a common, primary spot to carry a firearm. I had carried 4 oclock for several years after getting my CCW but recently changed and find it superior in a LOT of ways. For ME.

So, you're not sure why I asked. Aaaah, to learn? And if I'm doing something wrong, I'm more than willing to be challenged, think about it and change. I changed to AIWB because I find it better for me. And it was / is taught by some people that seem to know what they are talking about. If AIWB doesn't work for you, I've got no problem with that. I'm not sure why you have a problem with me carrying AIWB. I do learn from hearing and seeing what other people do. That seems pretty self explanatory. Obviously a good class taught by a trustworthy instructor would be the best place to learn something like this. But I didn't think it would be a bad thing to ask here.

Secondly, I thought I was clear in asking how people might employ a New York reload, regardless of where they are pulling their guns from. Although where you are wearing it might influence how you actually use the second gun. As is the case of an off hand pocket and using your support hand to employ it. But discussing those things was what I was after.

And lastly, since I'm trying to learn, can you recommend a good ankle holster for a J frame.

And since I'm getting it all out, you said why am I asking people's opinions since I didn't follow their advice about where to carry the primary". How in the earth was I supposed to change to what people said in this thread before getting the answers? If I have been doing something one way, and then asked questions here, you're telling me I didn't follow their advice to begin with. I just asked 2 days ago....... I'm confused..........

I admit, sometimes it takes me a while to see things in the proper perspective, so I apologize if my brain is in low gear. But your statements have me baffled. Now the part about ankle carrying, that I got. And does seem to be a suggestion worth looking into.

I get the impression that somewhere I offended you with my comments. I was not trying to be disrespectful to anyone and I'm sorry if my questions came across that way. And I'm guessing if I didn't offend you with those other ones I probably did now with this post. But it sure looks to me like you're expecting something from me that isn't there to be had. Like "following everyone's advice". That I just received.

This is kind of encouraging. I had actually toyed with the idea of having a .22 snubby to train with that double action pull and accuracy, and actually carrying it as a BUG. Better than a sharp stick, eh?

A most enjoyable and informative thread. Thanks to the OP for initiating it. I've read Jim Cirrilo's books and found them to be full of great stories, ideas, thoughts, and laughs. I've carried a Model 36 AIWB for many years, along with a Model 637 in my off side front or cargo pocket, and speed strips in my strong side pocket. Being aware of my surroundings is always my first line of defense. It takes time, experience, and effort to learn how to best equip oneself. Some might think I'm being overly cautious, however, I just figure this old fart is only evening the odds somewhat.
Be safe out there.
Dave
SWCA #2778

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mr mom
Fire Chief, Retired

I have previously carried two J-frames on occasion, but no longer do so.

As an armed civilian, my goals and directives are very different from those of an LEO. I want to avoid, disengage and use my firearm as a last resort to get me out of trouble and bad situations whereas a Cop must intentionally pursue and engage. Firepower needs are often likely going to be very different.

You could argue that it doesn't hurt to have extra firepower and that's pretty much true in the form of reloads, but when carrying an additional firearm, it's another weapon that you must retain.

I once had a student that preferred to carry two tactical folders, one in each front pocket. His thinking was that he could always access one or the other no matter what position he found himself in and worked extensively to be able to quickly draw and open them with either hand in various standing or ground scenarios. While his thinking was correct in that it gave him more options to always have a weapon accessible, it also meant that one would likely always be accessible to potential assailants in an entanglement or ground situation.

The same principle applies to carrying firearms. Being involved in a firefight, let alone one involving more than 5 rounds as a civilian is extremely rare whereas a scenario where you have to defend against an unarmed attacker(s) is a much higher probability and you definately wouldn't want to inadvertently arm them. Carrying only one weapon gives you more options to employ guarded positions and work angles to better protect and retain your gun.

My current thinking is this...My choice is to carry one firearm and it's usually a revolver. If I felt I truly needed more rounds for some reason, I would probably opt for a higher capacity weapon rather than carry an additional weapon.

It's a trade off either way.

I've been carrying for three years and live on the Northside of Chicago in a relatively safe area
Only 138 aggravated assaults in 2016 in my beat.

Had occasion to employ my snubby once against a shtarker sent by a right wing Polish butthurt who didn't like left wing Byelarussian Jews. Didn't have to draw, kept it in the pocket, indexed on the shtarker, let him exit the gym ahead of me.

Regarding emptying gun into attacker: trained a few weeks ago with John Farnam. He had me shoot 3, move and scan, shoot one more, move and scan. That way you have one in reserve. That said, unless and even if you train I've heard it said you'll fire twice as many as you think you have. That's why I carry a new york reload in addition to a fixed blade and one ounce can of fox pepper spray. And a small 100 lumen flashlight.

Right now it's 36-1 iwb cross-draw on left and a 638 ankle- jacket pocket.

May switch to P-32 right pocket, snubby left cross draw in warmer weather if P-32 is reliable coming back from Kel-Tec.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

I was tempted a few times to read them especially after I learned of Jimmy's death but I'd like to remember him and other people just as they were.

As great as JC was with his weapons the man that I'd want next to me when the lead was flying is not mentioned too often,Bill Allard,a Stake Out Unit member from beginning to end.

Bill liked his 1911 and used it with extreme accuracy.

When the unit was formed I was probably the youngest member.I'm 74 now.

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NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

ABPOS,

Sorry you are offended - that was not my intention, although it does appear that that was the effect. I thought I made it quite clear that I had no problem with your choice of position for your first gun. Want a NY reload? Carry in one of the other positions you passed up, and practice going to it. I think I said that.

Best ankle holster is Renegade. I believe that Wilderness Products, or some such, is the name of the outfit that now sells them.

Good luck.

I always carry two...........And have lived to tell about it !!!


.

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

Call me paranoid, but I have three fire extinguishers in the house. Thinking of installing a sprinkler system also.

But I am one of those people that checks three times that the door is locked. Turn off every appliance that can be turned off when asleep, or not home. Drive with a seat belt, check my blind spot before changing lanes.

Yes I carry two revolvers also.

Other considerations: if you front pocket carry like I do in the summer gun weight vs size vs reliability may be a consideration.

My 638 can work but it can also be too big in pocket depending on how heavy the fabric of the shorts is and how non permissive the environment is. I prefer flatter, lighter, smaller for the pocket.

The P-32 may work but I'll have to test it back from the factory. Otherwise maybe an LCP2 or RM380.

With the airweights Farnam recommends nothing over 100 grains as recoil degrades accuracy and follow up shots. I think he's right on that at least for distances past 12 feet.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

In NC a CHP is for handguns only, no other concealed weapons. BUT you can carry as many as you want. I believe in most states there is no limit to the amount of guns a person can conceal. Unless the person used more than one gun in SD, it should not be an issue in court. Except for liberal states most police support carry, and the use of firearms in self defense. Outside of a shooting how would anyone know who is carrying more than one concealed handgun.

Have carried for 40+ years legally. As I have said, the 2 have varied but always 2. I feel I should clarify why always 2. NOT for more ammo but in case my primary goes down. The 2 I currently carry have a total of 12 rounds. If it was an ammo decision, I'd just carry one gun with 12 rounds. That's not it for me, never has been. I've owned over 100 cars in my life and I have never had a flat tire in 55 years+ of driving. I always carry a spare tire.

Interesting thought on the grains..... I don't even know what's out there under 100 grains. I think Hornady makes a 90 grain critical defense light, but that's the only one I can think of off the top of my head......

But my 442 would work for pocket carry as you are saying. I would just switch out my grips to boot grips. I've got my eye out for some kind of trade (thinking about trading my G26) to make for a steel snubby of some sort. I really like the bodyguards. Or a 640... I like the 36/60 but sometimes practicing with my DS the hammer spur will catch on my clothes if I'm not careful enough to lift them up as much as needed. Of course you can get the spur bobbed though.