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View Poll Results: Which shell would you choose for the first shot in the chamber?
2 O Buck 12 .32 pellets 5 3.88%
2" OO Buck 9 .33 pellets 44 34.11%
2" Mag OO Buck 12 .33 pellets 7 5.43%
3" Mag OO Buck 15 .33 pellets 7 5.43%
2" OOO Buck 8 .36 pellets 4 3.10%
3" OOO Buck 10 .36 pellets 1 0.78%
2" #1 Buck 16 .30 pellets 11 8.53%
3" #1 Buck 24 .30 pellets 4 3.10%
2" #4 Buck 27 .24 pellets 36 27.91%
3" #4 Buck 41 .24 pellets 5 3.88%
2" 1oz. Foster Slug @ 1600 fps 1 0.78%
2" ⅞oz. Slug @ 1800 fps 4 3.10%
Voters: 129. You may not vote on this poll

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  #101  
Old 05-30-2017, 04:07 PM
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What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun?  
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Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil View Post
My Shockwave should arrive Tuesday. I'll be practicing with and keeping loaded 00 for the scientific reason that I already got a bunch on hand. Poking around the Net... most of what I read indicates there won't be a significant difference in velocity or pattern compared to my 18in Win Defender.

A tape measure reveals that my Defender with a pistol grip installed would only be about 2 inches longer than the Shockwave. Can someone remind me again why I bought the Shockwave?
The warm fuzzy one gets telling the powers that be to......

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Old 05-31-2017, 01:02 PM
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What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun?  
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"It's not that I dispute the effectiveness of your tacticool grouse hunt, I have enough buck shot that I don't have to half measure it to death with 7's. I saw an x-ray in a shooting class once that showed a sternum stopping a load of fine shot and what got by was less than impressive. The individual that was shot survived."

Fifty one years ago, I took my first Hunter Safety Course, taught by Long Beach (CA) Police. They showed us a coroner's photo of a kid who didn't clear his action before crossing a fence. He was sitting crying next to his buddy. You could, literally, see the grass on the other side of the wound. They were hunting quail with 7 1/2 or 8 shot, low base.
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Old 05-31-2017, 01:44 PM
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What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun?  
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Originally Posted by BearBio View Post
"It's not that I dispute the effectiveness of your tacticool grouse hunt, I have enough buck shot that I don't have to half measure it to death with 7's. I saw an x-ray in a shooting class once that showed a sternum stopping a load of fine shot and what got by was less than impressive. The individual that was shot survived."

Fifty one years ago, I took my first Hunter Safety Course, taught by Long Beach (CA) Police. They showed us a coroner's photo of a kid who didn't clear his action before crossing a fence. He was sitting crying next to his buddy. You could, literally, see the grass on the other side of the wound. They were hunting quail with 7 1/2 or 8 shot, low base.
You realize that you're equating the defensive suitability of birdshot with a fatal wound sustained in an accidental shooting at nearly muzzle contact distance? There are so many differences​ between the two things. I'm not going to get through to the tacticool bird hunters, but Heaven help me to try. There is no adrenaline involved in the accidental shooting. There is plenty of adrenaline involved in a defensive shooting. So we can safely the individual getting shot will be affected differently. Shock onset will​ occur later for the adrenaline charged individual. Surely we should use a load that will affect the onset of shock sooner than later and that isn't bird shot. I'm sorry but there is no intelligent argument for bird shot for serious self defense. There are too many variables involved that it comes up suboptimal for dealing with.
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Old 05-31-2017, 04:35 PM
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What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun?  
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I took a few moments this afternoon to shoot a few patterns. I started off with Winchester Super X 3" #1 Buck 24 pellets at 1040 fps. 22 pellets hit the torso and head of an idpa target at fifteen yards. I continued on with Federal Premium 3"OOO Buck 10 pellets at 1225 fps. 9 pellets​ hit the target at fifteen yards on the torso. What happened next was spectacular. I fired the Federal Classic or Power Shok 3" #4 Buck 41 pellets at 1210 fps. This load recoiled in a severe manner. To be honest my hands were a little sweaty and it slipped and I got nicked by the safety. It still woke me up quite a bit. I didn't bother to count the holes. There was no patching the target after that wad ripped it up. I field dressed my boo boo with TP and continued on. My last load tested was the Winchester Double X High Velocity OO Buck 3" 12 pellet load at 1450 fps. 9 or maybe 10 pellets hit the torso high and some might have leaked through the giant wad hole courtesy of the #4 Buck. Between sweating, boo boo, and a trashed target I called it a day. I found two really nice patterns though. The #1 and 000 were stellar in the 3". I really appreciate the lack of noise in the #1 and the pattern was very solid in the 000 having the potential to be useful even further out. The #4 and 00 Buck loads seem a bit blown out by their wads which were fifteen yards beyond the target.
I have removed, bevelled the sides of and reinstalled the safety. This should eliminate any further boo boos. They​ really could have done some simple bevelling on these guns and alleviated a little bit of operator discomfort.
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  #105  
Old 06-02-2017, 08:49 AM
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What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun?  
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Based on my limited testing, I vote: None of the above.
That is NOT a good pattern....at only 10 yards!
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Old 06-02-2017, 10:08 AM
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What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun?  
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That is NOT a good pattern....at only 10 yards!
Well sir. The lower right hole is the wad. That makes it a 10" pattern. Not great, but good. There are only six 00 pellets in this load and recoil is negligible. Hornady Critical Defense patterns much better, but there is a trade-off in increased recoil.

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  #107  
Old 06-02-2017, 10:28 AM
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The reasoning is irrelevant in my book. I'm on board with more guns. No reason necessary other than you wanted it.
I get that, and have acquired quite a lot of guns on that basis alone. But with so many guns not doing a lot other than holding down the safe to the floor, buying guns based on tasks or utility is the buying mode I've drifted into. That's what made the Shockwave an immediate I'm getting one purchase for me.
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Old 06-03-2017, 05:32 PM
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What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun?  
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Well today I shot a couple of slugs and buckshot from the Shockwave. Winchester one ounce and Remington 7/8 ounce slugs and the 25 round boxes of 00 Buck from Walmart. I shot the last of the hellacious #4 Buck 3" magnum Federal up also. I have some tactical brawler gloves with padded palms and I wore them and it still was annoying. I ended up with a super hot gun and a smile on my face.
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Old 06-03-2017, 08:04 PM
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What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun?  
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Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil View Post
I get that, and have acquired quite a lot of guns on that basis alone. But with so many guns not doing a lot other than holding down the safe to the floor, buying guns based on tasks or utility is the buying mode I've drifted into. That's what made the Shockwave an immediate I'm getting one purchase for me.
Exactly my thinking too. If I can't shoot it for pleasure or find a good use for it, it's gone. I feel guilty having a lot of money tied up in guns that just sit. I'm not one of those that says "look what I got" and never shoots it.

I shot a Shockwave today. Not bad. Make a good home gun. Local dealer has 10 in stock. He put one aside for me.
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Old 06-03-2017, 08:08 PM
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I get that, and have acquired quite a lot of guns on that basis alone. But with so many guns not doing a lot other than holding down the safe to the floor, buying guns based on tasks or utility is the buying mode I've drifted into. That's what made the Shockwave an immediate I'm getting one purchase for me.
This ^ ^ ^

Truck gun, but not permanently. My Kel Tec Sub2000 fills the permanent niche nicely. This would be a "hey, oughta take that with me today" gun . . .
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Old 06-04-2017, 05:57 PM
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Been cruising the Net reading about different 12ga ammo offerings and ran across this article.
What do you guys think about this Federal #1 buckshot?

According to the article...
Meets FBI penetrations standards.
Tight pattern
Less punishing to shoot.

The Box O' Truth #56 - Federal Flight Control #1 Buckshot - The Box O' Truth
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Old 06-04-2017, 06:40 PM
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I would use it. But only with the flite control wad.

A 33 grain pellet at .287 inches traveling at 1100 fps isn't the greatest. But when you consider 15 of them and the pattern, it should do well.
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  #113  
Old 06-04-2017, 07:11 PM
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What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun?  
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Originally Posted by Kanewpadle View Post
I would use it. But only with the flite control wad.

A 33 grain pellet at .287 inches traveling at 1100 fps isn't the greatest. But when you consider 15 of them and the pattern, it should do well.
#1 Buck is supposed to be .30 cal.

The best patterns I have seen so far have been from #1 Buck and 000 Buck in the 3". It stands to reason that #1 Buck is a good choice in a 2" shell. With or without the light recoil loading I'd use it. It appears to be the slowest shot of all the loadings but if it penetrates, do it.

Just make sure that the Flitecontrol has a pattern you can use at whatever practical distances you intend.
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Old 06-05-2017, 08:23 AM
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What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun?  
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Originally Posted by Kanewpadle View Post
I would use it. But only with the flite control wad.

A 33 grain pellet at .287 inches traveling at 1100 fps isn't the greatest. But when you consider 15 of them and the pattern, it should do well.
It sure looks like a heavy load.

I looked up the weight of #1 and it shows to be 40.5 grains. 15 pellets would be 607 grains. Federal has the same velocity rated type low recoil 00 with 8 pellets at 53.8 grains = 430 grains. #1 at near an ounce and a half is considerably heavier than the bird shot, target, slugs and 9 pellet 00 I have. #4 typically has 27 pellets which would still be considerably lighter than this #1 load. Wonder why #1 so heavy in this ? I have little knowledge of 12ga ammo. Learn me.

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  #115  
Old 06-05-2017, 08:42 AM
forrestinmathews forrestinmathews is offline
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What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun?  
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Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil View Post
It sure looks like a heavy load.

I looked up the weight of #1 and it shows to be 40.5 grains. 15 pellets would be 607 grains. Federal has the same velocity rated type low recoil 00 with 8 pellets at 53.8 grains = 430 grains. #1 at near an ounce and a half is considerably heavier than the bird shot, target, slugs and 9 pellet 00 I have. What's up with #1 being so heavy in this "low recoil" load... what am I missing?
Typical #1 load is 16 pellets in 2" at 1250 and this one is 15 and it's slow. My favorite 3" #1 load is 21 pellets and no flight control at 1040 fps. It's quite manageable. As long as it's not #4 Buck you'll be okay. As my experience has shown, the 3" #4 Buck is nasty and the 2 ⅞ oz slugs are the heaviest recoiling. I have not shot a 3" slug yet and have no intention to.
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Old 06-05-2017, 06:23 PM
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What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun?  
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Today I broke down and picked up some more shells to play with. I got a box of the Winchester PDX Buck and slug loads. I also was talked into the 8 pellet Hornady Critical Defense load at another small shop. That stuff is trucking at 1600fps but we will see if the pattern is blown out or not. I have pretty much given up on anything that isn't possible to get locally. Which means Federal Flight control is out. Winchester 3" #1Buck is available at Walmart as is the Federal Premium 3" 00 Buck and maybe 000 Buck.

I have decided to go with the 3" 000 Buck first for it's great pattern and then three 3" 00 Buck and two 2" magnum 00 Buck because that is the most pellets I could stack in the tube without losing the third 3" shell. All are Federal Premium shells until I find something I like better and can convince myself that the Winchester #1 Buck is penetrating well enough.
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Old 06-10-2017, 08:36 PM
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What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun?  
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So I tested Shockwave #2 this afternoon with a lady shooter to see how she liked it. I learned that the mini shells have a market for a reason. Recoil management is crucial with these. We were working with Winchester Featherlights and discovered that indexing this platform is difficult for newer shooters to the pump platform. She was able to pick it up fairly quickly though. I fired one round of that stuff and it was almost imperceptible recoil compared to the 2" #1 Buck I was playing with. I'm in love with the Winchester #1 Buck loads in these guns. I think they are moderate on recoil and pattern well downrange. I didn't test the 3" loads in this gun yet nor did I test the new arrival buckshots.
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Old 06-15-2017, 03:07 PM
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What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun?  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanewpadle View Post
I would use it. But only with the flite control wad.

A 33 grain pellet at .287 inches traveling at 1100 fps isn't the greatest. But when you consider 15 of them and the pattern, it should do well.
A thought occurred to me that they may be running the same pellets from their #2 Buck 20 gauge load in their #1 Buck 12 gauge load...

After quite a bit of reading of reviews and videos I have discovered that the Federal 13200 load is amazing​ in it's patterns. The reduced recoil version of Flitecontrol​ are turning in wonderful patterns out to fifty yards from cylinder bore guns. I'm curious about the #1 Buck reduced recoil in that I heard it had a lovable habit of not donut holing its patterns at distance. So I have a bit of it coming from a vendor.
I may try to pick up some of the 13200 00 Buck locally, however it appears to be almost too tight for the practical ranges. Has anyone shot this load in a Shockwave?
One of my applications needs to be a load optimized for a maximum of 15 yards for a small statured shooter. The longest shot in the place is 16 yards from the bedroom to the front door. I have found the #1 Winchester 2" to be the best pattern or at least on par with its 3" brother, but the Federal could possibly have less recoil and that is appealing even if the pattern becomes tighter. I'm up in the air whether or not I need slug like accuracy in close with this application. There are only two occupants in the dwelling and it has 24 hour floor illumination for safe navigation during hours of darkness which is incredibly effective for target identification.
My other application is far more flexible and I have stuck with the 3" 000 followed by three 3" 00 Buck and two 2" 00 Buck magnum loads. I'm getting pretty good pattern and range out of the first round and then it's followed by an all around loading for three and then the last two are maximum pellet counts in 00 Buck with the space remaining.
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Old 06-15-2017, 06:03 PM
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All of my shotguns get the same thing... first shell or two: buck and slug
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Old 06-15-2017, 11:22 PM
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What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun?  
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All of my shotguns get the same thing... first shell or two: buck and slug
There's nothing like being specific...LOL...and he didn't even vote in the poll.
Only a few dozen types of slugs and buckshot.

I really was trying to tap into what I had supposed a reserve of knowledge. I figured everyone that had one of these cool little guns would be playing with it. I've sure relearned a lot about buckshot that I had forgotten​. I was a total choke junkie and had gravitated to premium offerings from Remington and Federal. Remington is out of the premium buckshot game, but it was the best offering in a 2" through a pattern master in a Remington or Benelli. Federal Premium 3" 00 Buck was my go to for the Mossberg with it's oversize barrel through both constriction and wad retarding chokes. They had discontinued the #1 Buck 3" load by the time I was big enough for 3". It was a phenomenal load out to 100 yards according to a several hunters. Anyway little gun doesn't have any choke so it's playtime all over again in search of some go to loads. The funny part to me is I never really cared for the Winchester buckshot, but that's changed too.

So if you happen to play with your Shockwave or something of similar barrel length and get some data I'm all ears and highly appreciative. Also feel free to vote in the poll and if your option isn't there and reasonable for self defense please post about it.
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Old 06-16-2017, 10:28 AM
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Well sir. The lower right hole is the wad. That makes it a 10" pattern. Not great, but good. There are only six 00 pellets in this load and recoil is negligible. Hornady Critical Defense patterns much better, but there is a trade-off in increased recoil.
That makes all the difference in the world. The wad from this round made an exceptionally small hole, which I thought was another pellet hole and wondered where the remaining 2 had hit. All that said...that's the pattern I'd expect at 10 yds.
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Old 06-16-2017, 12:20 PM
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Been cruising the Net reading about different 12ga ammo offerings and ran across this article.
What do you guys think about this Federal #1 buckshot?

According to the article...
Meets FBI penetrations standards.
Tight pattern
Less punishing to shoot.

The Box O' Truth #56 - Federal Flight Control #1 Buckshot - The Box O' Truth
Thanks for the info. I am going to try and find some of this to stock, and load in my shotgun.
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Old 06-16-2017, 06:47 PM
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Thanks for the info. I am going to try and find some of this to stock, and load in my shotgun.
After you shoot some in your Shockwave let us know what you think about it.
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Old 06-16-2017, 07:24 PM
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I'd use it for CQC and likely use short base target loads. No BG will walk away.
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Old 06-16-2017, 07:53 PM
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There's a reason they call 8's bird shot. Birds have never been a big threat to my life. Granted close up and in a hallway they wouldn't feel good, but there are well documented cases of shot not reaching vitals. IMO the first shot is the most important, as you may not get a second. I want something potent and worry about over penetration later if I'm still alive. I don't have kids at home, thin walls, or close neighbors. I voted for 3" 00 buck (15 beats 9), but often go with all 3" Dixie tri-balls 3- 60 caliber balls app 2 oz's @ 1000-1100 fps. IDK if there is such a thing as overkill when it comes to SD. :Order me a beer if you're going to the bar.
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Old 06-16-2017, 10:58 PM
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Thanks for the info. I am going to try and find some of this to stock, and load in my shotgun.
Seek and ye shall find...freight is a drag so I bought 50
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Old 06-16-2017, 11:01 PM
forrestinmathews forrestinmathews is offline
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A couple of new loads procured today....Herter's multi defense and mini buckshot. Six #1 Buck and a .650 round ball and 6 00 Buck respectively. Next week is going to be a lot of fun. There will be a lot of loads to test.
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Old 06-17-2017, 11:55 AM
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I load mine with number 4 buck exclusively.
Since it's pretty useless in my home, my Ithaca Model 37 DS/PS stays locked in the safe.

When I did live somewhere where it was useful, I used #4 buck exclusively. I did have some 00 buck and some slugs, but kept the shotgun loaded with #4.
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Old 06-18-2017, 08:42 AM
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Those huge holes blown in doors that you could fit your head thru, seen in films is BS. You might be lucky to make a glory hole. Pattern your ammo to see just how much they DON'T open up. The plastic wad may be what kills.
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Old 06-18-2017, 06:12 PM
forrestinmathews forrestinmathews is offline
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Those huge holes blown in doors that you could fit your head thru, seen in films is BS. You might be lucky to make a glory hole. Pattern your ammo to see just how much they DON'T open up. The plastic wad may be what kills.
Having hunted half of my life with buckshot...you'd be surprised to learn how close the gun has to be for the wad to penetrate. About six inches to muzzle contact distance. Beyond that it tends to just hang in the entrance wound.
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Old 06-19-2017, 02:20 PM
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Capstick related how he killed an African lion with a low-base load of #8 at close range.
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Old 06-19-2017, 02:30 PM
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You realize that you're equating the defensive suitability of birdshot with a fatal wound sustained in an accidental shooting at nearly muzzle contact distance? There are so many differences​ between the two things. I'm not going to get through to the tacticool bird hunters, but Heaven help me to try. There is no adrenaline involved in the accidental shooting. There is plenty of adrenaline involved in a defensive shooting. So we can safely the individual getting shot will be affected differently. Shock onset will​ occur later for the adrenaline charged individual. Surely we should use a load that will affect the onset of shock sooner than later and that isn't bird shot. I'm sorry but there is no intelligent argument for bird shot for serious self defense. There are too many variables involved that it comes up suboptimal for dealing with.
Despite your level of self-serving sarcasm, there is one INTELLIGENT reason: over penetration!

In the case I mentioned, the heart was totally gone as was a 2-3" portion of the spine. Kinda limits a response regardless of the amount of epinephrine (adrenaline is now a out-of-date term==it was when I taught college anatomy labs 20 years ago!) in the circulatory system if the spine and spinal chord are removed, as well as the heart!

Perhaps you have some DOCUMENTED cases of people without a heart or spine surviving a shooting?
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Old 06-19-2017, 02:33 PM
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Default SOME GUY DID THIS ONE TIME...

Just not good enough for me. I don't want something that should/oughta work, most of the time, under ideal conditions. Even slugs have failed to stop BG's at times, so I go big. TEHO
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Old 06-19-2017, 11:45 PM
forrestinmathews forrestinmathews is offline
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Despite your level of self-serving sarcasm, there is one INTELLIGENT reason: over penetration!

In the case I mentioned, the heart was totally gone as was a 2-3" portion of the spine. Kinda limits a response regardless of the amount of epinephrine (adrenaline is now a out-of-date term==it was when I taught college anatomy labs 20 years ago!) in the circulatory system if the spine and spinal chord are removed, as well as the heart!

Perhaps you have some DOCUMENTED cases of people without a heart or spine surviving a shooting?
I am sarcastic by nature because I work in a highly stressful environment with thick skinned and sometimes skulled people. I guess I forget in the forums you cannot hear the tone and so you find it insulting rather than humourous.

Bird shot is out of its depth in a defensive application and always has been. The documented case that you keep referring to is an accidental shooting. It's unfortunate that you cannot see that you're championing a lemon of an idea here. So a guy accidentally kills his friend crossing a fence and that makes bird shot a viable self defense tool? Okay. You want to follow that up and say it doesn't over penetrate? Okay. Have a wonderful day and I truly wish you the best.
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Old 06-20-2017, 05:49 PM
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2" OO Buck for the first shell.

And the second.

And the third.

And the rest of them.
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Old 06-22-2017, 12:19 AM
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Today I figured out that if I pull the magazine spring clip out, I can just barely fit 4 Federal Premium 3" 000 Buck and a 2" Mag OO Buck plus one in the chamber. There is a definite length difference between brands. Winchester is longer than Federal, but is uniform in length. The Federal is longer in 000 than 00 in 3" and the 2" mag is longer than a regular 2". I'm pretty sure this is irrelevant to most everyone who has a Shockwave as most appear to be shooting 2" 00 or #4 followed by the few #1 guys. For the fifteen other folks that might be crazy enough to be shooting 3" hope you find this useful.
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Old 06-22-2017, 09:23 PM
forrestinmathews forrestinmathews is offline
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Well today I got some testing and familization on the Shockwave with a new user. My mother is 66 years old and is living pretty far away so this is an option for her to use in self defense. The idea is to have completely hidden protection features in the condo. My Dad is a cancer survivor and has no feeling in his hands and extremely poor eyesight. So we came up with this plan to keep them both safe while preserving his dignity. As far as he knows there are no guns present in the environment.
Today we tested it with the mini shells and conversion piece. After some familiarization using Winchester low noise and recoil we tried the mini shell buckshot by Aguila. They seemed pretty decent at 15 yards. This is the longest possible shot in their condo.
The first pattern is the mini buckshot at 15 yards. Not bad at all. Those little shells pop more than the Winchester Low Recoil Low Noise and they eject forward of the gun.
I was finally able to test some of the Federal Low Recoil Flitecontrol #1 Buck. The big hole is the 15 yard pattern and the last picture is the pattern at 30 yards with the giant hold being the 15 yard hole. I believe that they are all on paper there. That's some really good stuff and very low recoil at just a hair above the mini shells. #1 Buck is fast becoming my favorite in these guns although 000 remains a powerful second.
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Old 06-23-2017, 02:35 AM
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Has anyone tried Aguila Minishells 1 3/4". You can get Slugs, Buckshot( 7 #4 buck 4#1buck 5/8oz @1200fps), 7.5 birdshot. You can get 8 rounds in the Shockwave. About 50% less recoil, pure fun! The problem is finding them and the high price. With s/h i paid over a $1. a round. Neat idea for close in work. You need a Mini-clip to made them work in a Shockwave. The rubber clip is made in Texas (www.OPSolmini-clip.co
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Old 06-23-2017, 09:22 AM
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Capstick related how he killed an African lion with a low-base load of #8 at close range.
David slew Goliath with a stone, but that wouldn't be my choice in self-defense ammo.
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Old 06-23-2017, 09:36 AM
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I was finally able to test some of the Federal Low Recoil Flitecontrol #1 Buck. The big hole is the 15 yard pattern and the last picture is the pattern at 30 yards with the giant hold being the 15 yard hole. I believe that they are all on paper there. That's some really good stuff and very low recoil at just a hair above the mini shells. #1 Buck is fast becoming my favorite in these guns although 000 remains a powerful second.
Where did you get it?

Anyone here do business with these people? $78/100 delivered. Find it cheaper?

Federal 12 Gauge Tactical LE1321B 2-3/4" Reduced Recoil 1 Buckshot 15 Pellets 50 rounds

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Old 06-23-2017, 10:56 AM
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Just say no to any pistol grip shotgun,get a 18" barrel with a stock if you want useful protection in a shotgun. The shockwave is a boy toy.
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Old 06-23-2017, 11:21 AM
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Having hunted half of my life with buckshot...you'd be surprised to learn how close the gun has to be for the wad to penetrate. About six inches to muzzle contact distance. Beyond that it tends to just hang in the entrance wound.
R-U shooting blanks? I've seen wads make holes in plywood numerous times from 10 yards/360". Stuff happens so I don't doubt you have experienced that. I agree wholeheartedly with the full stock being more accurate/controllable, and less maneuverable, BUT they take up more room, & are harder to conceal. Hopefully that's why people are using them & not cuz they are tacticool.
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Old 06-23-2017, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
It's a hallway gun. #8 will do the job. Everything else is just bar talk . . .
+1

Shooting Illustrated | Buckshot vs. Birdshot for Home Defense

And if #8 isn't enough, there are lots of option between #8 and 00. At self-defense ranges inside the typical home, 00 has way more penetration than needed. A hunting load is an ounce or more of lead at 1200fps muzzle velocity hitting at 5yds, 7rds, 10yds in a home scenario. #6's, #5's, #4's are going to turn any body part in its path into hamburger. No way is a perp getting up after that. And all while minimizing the risk of killing the neighbor next door, or the same for a family member in the next room.

JMHO



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Old 06-23-2017, 12:25 PM
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Despite report after report to the contrary, blanket statements like these still exist. There's no such thing as a GUARENTEED one shot stop. Perps take multiple hits all the time from much bigger/faster projectiles than birdshot. Just ask Rapper Fiddy cent. TOO much gun for defending your life???
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Old 06-23-2017, 12:51 PM
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I've seen wads make holes in plywood numerous times from 10 yards/360".
A wad make holes in plywood? From 10 yards? Then why are we loading shot or slugs in our guns at all? I've seen a lot of shotguns patterned on paper and cardboard. I've seen the wad make holes in both of those at 13 yards. I've seen plenty of shotgun shots at plywood, but I've never seen a wad put a hole in plywood by itself.

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There's no such thing as a GUARENTEED one shot stop. Perps take multiple hits all the time from much bigger/faster projectiles than birdshot.
Exactly right. And this is why trusting your life to bird shot is...well...not advised. Use the largest, most destructive load you can effectively place on target. Could #8 stop someone? Well, I guess, but I'm sticking with a real load for self-defense.

Actually, I don't understand why anyone would even do that. What's the reasoning? They don't recoil less.
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Old 06-23-2017, 02:22 PM
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Capstick related how he killed an African lion with a low-base load of #8 at close range.
Capstick is notorious for being a hero of his own stories. Remember the time he went to followup on a leopard and had an unloaded shotgun?

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Originally Posted by fisco View Post
Has anyone tried Aguila Minishells 1 3/4". You can get Slugs, Buckshot( 7 #4 buck 4#1buck 5/8oz @1200fps), 7.5 birdshot. You can get 8 rounds in the Shockwave. About 50% less recoil, pure fun! The problem is finding them and the high price. With s/h i paid over a $1. a round. Neat idea for close in work. You need a Mini-clip to made them work in a Shockwave. The rubber clip is made in Texas (www.OPSolmini-clip.co
Yes I tried some of the buckshot yesterday with the clip, see my post above. It is the first pattern. I'm not certain if they are really worth the extra effort to procure. You can get the reduced recoil buckshot loads and be money ahead I think. If and when they become readily available I may look at getting some more of the buckshot. The 7's are a waste as you can buy Winchester Low Recoil Low Noise and even at $10 a box you get more shells, more shot and less recoil. I found this to be oddly true.

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Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil View Post
Where did you get it?

Anyone here do business with these people? $78/100 delivered. Find it cheaper?

Federal 12 Gauge Tactical LE1321B 2-3/4" Reduced Recoil 1 Buckshot 15 Pellets 50 rounds
SGA Ammo is where I got mine. They are all sold out. Shocking as they had a bunch in stock when I bought it. To the tune of 8 cases of 250 and a couple of 50's and some loose boxes. Somebody somewhere equipped for #1 Buck is all I can think.

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Originally Posted by nachogrande View Post
R-U shooting blanks? I've seen wads make holes in plywood numerous times from 10 yards/360". Stuff happens so I don't doubt you have experienced that.
I was referring to penetration on deer. Most of the times I had was penetration it was on finishing shots on deer with a shotgun. One season I failed to ensure my gun had a full choke installed for deer season and instead hunted all season with improved cylinder. I learned a lot about moving and shooting and also about reloading in a hurry. Wads were bouncing off at five yards and often times as you got closer you would have hang up on the front side, but you needed to be very close. The only time it fully penetrated was when the gun was nearly muzzle contact distance for a finishing shot and the wad was protruding out the far side of the head slightly. Some of the high velocity Flitecontrol offerings may have the speed to achieve penetration, but I don't believe a conventional petal shot cup does.
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Old 06-23-2017, 08:12 PM
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What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun?  
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Ballistic personal defense weapons work by penetration, hence you can't have "too much" penetration.

Ipso facto, save the birdshot for birds, #1 buck for coyotes. Double-ought buck all the time.
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Old 06-23-2017, 09:19 PM
forrestinmathews forrestinmathews is offline
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What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun?  
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Originally Posted by Gamecock View Post
Ballistic personal defense weapons work by penetration, hence you can't have "too much" penetration.

Ipso facto, save the birdshot for birds, #1 buck for coyotes. Double-ought buck all the time.
Well I've used the term tacticool birdhunter and it would appear I have been coined a tacticool varminter for my affection for #1 Buck. Haha Splendid! Glad someone else has a sense of humor. What about 000 Buck? Is that over kill? Does it give me another tacticool title? LOL
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Old 06-23-2017, 09:47 PM
Lt JL Lt JL is offline
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What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun?  
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I spent most of my life depending on #00 buck in 2 3/4" loads in a 870. I bought a Shock wave as a car/truck gun. Found a scabbard on ebay. I can wield it out my passenger or driver side window. My old 870 has a side saddle full of slugs. I put the slugs in the molle slots on the scabbard. I don't know what a cop would say, as in Ohio, there is no regulation of these "firearms" yet. My arguement will be It's covered by my ccw; it's just a big handgun. Don't know. Haven'y been stopped.
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Old 07-08-2017, 09:48 PM
forrestinmathews forrestinmathews is offline
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What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun?  
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I ended up finding a case of LE1321B for cheap and getting that. I'm pretty much all #1 Buck at this point. It was fun stretching the magazine capacity to fit all the 3" 000 Buck P158000, but the gun was a bit heavier than it is with the LE1321B fully loaded. I notice it when I carry it around and it is pronouncedly nimbler. I have had to reexamine the whole idea of the super tight patterns up close. I am looking at it like this: If I need it, I have a shell caddy full of XB1231 3" #1 Buck. That load will open up and to a beautiful pattern beyond ten and remain full, but spready out to thirty yards.
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