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View Poll Results: Which shell would you choose for the first shot in the chamber?
2 O Buck 12 .32 pellets 6 4.29%
2" OO Buck 9 .33 pellets 49 35.00%
2" Mag OO Buck 12 .33 pellets 8 5.71%
3" Mag OO Buck 15 .33 pellets 7 5.00%
2" OOO Buck 8 .36 pellets 5 3.57%
3" OOO Buck 10 .36 pellets 3 2.14%
2" #1 Buck 16 .30 pellets 11 7.86%
3" #1 Buck 24 .30 pellets 4 2.86%
2" #4 Buck 27 .24 pellets 37 26.43%
3" #4 Buck 41 .24 pellets 5 3.57%
2" 1oz. Foster Slug @ 1600 fps 1 0.71%
2" ⅞oz. Slug @ 1800 fps 4 2.86%
Voters: 140. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-25-2017, 05:26 PM
forrestinmathews forrestinmathews is offline
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What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun?  
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Default What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun?

So just taking a survey and maybe sparking a little discussion on how to load a short shotgun kept for defensive ​purposes. How would you set it up for the first shot?
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Old 05-25-2017, 05:33 PM
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Why?

Short shotguns don't enhance spread hardly at all. The advantage is in its concealability. You wouldn't have the accuracy when using slugs (human error and shorter sight radius). Blunderbusses had the flared barrel to facilitate loading under pressure not for increasing spread.

Assuming no choke, spread would be at the same rate. If the spread is normally 4" at a foot from the muzzle, it would still be 4" at a foot from the muzzle (MAYBE!).
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Old 05-25-2017, 05:40 PM
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I load mine with number 4 buck exclusively.
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Old 05-25-2017, 06:10 PM
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Me too.

Larry
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Old 05-25-2017, 07:08 PM
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At house range (10-20'), it's hard to beat a 3" #4 turkey load. A bad guy would have a hard time continuing to be 'bad' after being hit with that many hard pellets. Neutralizing the threat is what's important in this scenario.
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Old 05-25-2017, 07:32 PM
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What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun?  
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I'm sort of a shotgun guy. I understand the theory of pattern spread and much more importantly the actual truth as it pertains to this particular gadget. I chose a 3" 000 Buck shell as the lead off for its ability to bring quite a bit all at once up close and still retain pretty penetration​ at some distance.
Really I was trying to get back to the romance of fixed choke shotguns and the varied first shell which was as personally varied as the socks folks wore. One might swear by a "Baby Mag"(2" Magnum) #1Buck as my Father did or be a die hard #4Buck guy like my Uncle. There are often interesting stories behind the choice of shot.
Jim Cirillo had an interesting idea about setting up a shotgun for combat that varied for daytime and nighttime, but let's hear your ideas....
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Old 05-25-2017, 07:46 PM
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My only experience with a shotgun was shooting #00 buckshot with an 18" Remington 870 police shotgun, so one should probably take my opinion with a grain of salt.

I have researched using a shotgun for HD, and it seems like the best choice is the 2-3/4" #1 buckshot load as it penetrates deeper than #4 buckshot but with less risk of overpenetration in close quarters than #00 buckshot. So, disregarding the practicality of a pistol-gripped, short-barrel "non-shotgun" like the Shockwave, I'd go with the #1 buckshot. I have no idea what kind of recoil one would experience shooting a Shockwave with #1 buckshot, but my limited experience with #00 buckshot in a full-size shotgun was not what I would call "pleasant."

Personally, I think of the Shockwave as more of a novelty item than a practical SD weapon. It's only advantage is concealment, so the only real benefit I see to it is either one intends to carry it concealed or one has a secure hiding place that the Shockwave can fit into but not a stocked shotgun. I view the shotgun at its best as a "hunker-down-in-the-saferoom" HD gun.

Having said that, I do think it would be neat to have one as it reminds me of the cut down shotguns used by the US Marshals Service Witness Security (WITSEC) deputies.

Just my opinion.
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Old 05-25-2017, 07:52 PM
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Even a Goose load of steel pellet #T's would do the job........

Heck, it is a 12 Ga. !!
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Old 05-25-2017, 08:38 PM
forrestinmathews forrestinmathews is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ContinentalOp View Post
I have researched using a shotgun for HD, and it seems like the best choice is the 2-3/4" #1 buckshot load as it penetrates deeper than #4 buckshot but with less risk of overpenetration in close quarters than #00 buckshot. So, disregarding the practicality of a pistol-gripped, short-barrel "non-shotgun" like the Shockwave, I'd go with the #1 buckshot. I have no idea what kind of recoil one would experience shooting a Shockwave with #1 buckshot, but my limited experience with #00 buckshot in a full-size shotgun was not what I would call "pleasant."
Interesting suggestion on the #1 Buck. I had actually considered loading the whole thing with Baby Mag #1's, but sadly they seem to be unobtainable anymore. I'm running either a 3" OOO Buck or 3" #4 Buck if there was something that needed the shot to be contained.
Recoil with this gun is really not abusive. I roll with it fairly easily and I love the ability to push pull cycle the gun. It translates into very fast cycle times. Take my evaluation with a grain of salt, I am a fan of recoil.
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Old 05-25-2017, 10:12 PM
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Setting it up? First shot? No, I wouldn't suggest anything fancy. Just load 'er up with 00 Buck. If for some reason you need to take a longer shot, like 50 yards, do a "select slug" reload and put a slug in there. Otherwise, every defensive shell is 00 Buck.
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Old 05-25-2017, 10:14 PM
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It's a hallway gun. #8 will do the job. Everything else is just bar talk . . .
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Old 05-25-2017, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
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Setting it up? First shot? No, I wouldn't suggest anything fancy. Just load 'er up with 00 Buck. If for some reason you need to take a longer shot, like 50 yards, do a "select slug" reload and put a slug in there. Otherwise, every defensive shell is 00 Buck.
I agree with 00 Buck.
I don't think a 50 yard hit with a slug is possible, unless there are 10-12 folks shooting at the same target.
But hey, I was pretty good with a M-79 Grenade Launcher. (Blooper) So just maybe........
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Old 05-25-2017, 10:36 PM
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I agree with 00 Buck.
I don't think a 50 yard hit with a slug is possible, unless there are 10-12 folks shooting at the same target.
But hey, I was pretty good with a M-79 Grenade Launcher. (Blooper) So just maybe........
Disclaimer- I'm nowhere near the marksman Hickok45 is, and perhaps just as importantly, I'm not nearly as big a guy as he is.

But on his review of the Shockwave, he was pretty accurate with it, and handled it well. He put slugs on target on the gong, I think that is 80 yds at his home range.

He seemed to hold it "almost" at eye level, maybe about sternum height, and was controlling recoil well (heck, he was dual-wielding in the intro!).
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Old 05-25-2017, 10:41 PM
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Thanks for the info. I'll look for his video.
Old Hickok45 is a amazing shooter.
Thanks.
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Old 05-25-2017, 11:07 PM
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It's a hallway gun. #8 will do the job. Everything else is just bar talk . . .
^^^^^^^^
What he said!

All this fuss about buckshot and slugs in the house is silly.

A trap load of # 8 in the house is all you need.

Folks that haven't killed critters with a shotgun get carried away imagining what's necessary at self defense ranges in real world applications (not fantacy zombie attacks).
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Old 05-25-2017, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
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It's a hallway gun. #8 will do the job. Everything else is just bar talk . . .
Inside a house, use any shot size you want. A 50 yard shot with a slug is not self defense, not in Tennessee anyway. The judge will not compliment you on your marksmanship for sure.
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Old 05-25-2017, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozark Marine View Post
I agree with 00 Buck.
I don't think a 50 yard hit with a slug is possible, unless there are 10-12 folks shooting at the same target.
But hey, I was pretty good with a M-79 Grenade Launcher. (Blooper) So just maybe........
I was at a buddy's home range. His 870 has a rifled barrel and rifle sights.

My 870 is a Wing Master with a shotgun barrel that is cut to 19" and no sights. Shooting slugs, we could hit a man sized steel target at 50 yds. no problem. With no sights.

At home, first 4 shells are 2 3/4" 0000 buckshot. #5 is a slug.
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Old 05-25-2017, 11:53 PM
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Put me down as another for 00 buck. It's what I know for shotguns, and have a good supply on hand, I'd stuff it full and be pleased and confident with that loading.

I'm a bit intrigued with the shockwave, wouldn't mind having one of my own.
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Old 05-26-2017, 12:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozark Marine View Post
I don't think a 50 yard hit with a slug is possible, unless there are 10-12 folks shooting at the same target.
Not only is 50 yards possible, I've done it under time pressure successfully.

I agree that a 50 yard shot is very unlikely. That's why I say to load the gun with 00 Buck and load the slug when you have to.


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A trap load of # 8 in the house is all you need.
I don't understand this thinking. No one would pick a .22LR as their first choice. Yet, when it comes to a shotgun, bunches of guys pick the projectile that's 2 1/2 times smaller? It will potentially wound, but it is not a stopper. When the bad guy comes in, you want to stop him, now.

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Old 05-26-2017, 02:47 AM
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My first round would be the same as the rest of the rounds.

In theory , no1 Buck would be best balance of pattern density and pellet size . But alas it is rare on the shelf in my area, and Federal Tactical 00B is plentiful, so that what I usually roll with. If you were speaking literally in the home, 4B would be more or less viable , but for my rural home, front door to end of driveway is close to 50yds.

No, I'm not volunteering to take a load of #8 to the face at close range. But the various birdshot has reallly, really shallow penetration, and I'm not even a penetration obsessed guy. Like 1-2 inches of pnetration. Unless I'm mugged while dove hunting ( actually a real thing) , I'll pass .
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Old 05-26-2017, 05:19 AM
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In actual fact my first couple of rounds currently loaded are duplex loads of #4 birdshot and BB shot. Factory Remington loads (MRP12S BBX4). But #8s or 7 1/2s at room distance would do as well or better. Mostly because they are still a seething mass 'o destruction at that distance. Not really separate shot at all.

But for any kind of distance beyond "inside the house" they aren't so good.
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Old 05-26-2017, 05:56 AM
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Federal LE Flight Control 12ga. 00 Buck from my Beretta 1301 Tactical. At 10 yards this stuff still holds a pattern not much bigger than your fist.
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Old 05-26-2017, 06:49 AM
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I WOULD CHOOSE THE 2 3/4" SHELL, LOADED WITH #00 BUCK.....

I CAN'T IMAGINE A SCENARIO--THAT WOULD BE JUDGED IN A COURT AS DEFENSIVE-- WHEREIN A SLUG WOULD BE AN APPROPRIATE LOAD.........
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Old 05-26-2017, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
Setting it up? First shot? No, I wouldn't suggest anything fancy. Just load 'er up with 00 Buck. If for some reason you need to take a longer shot, like 50 yards, do a "select slug" reload and put a slug in there. Otherwise, every defensive shell is 00 Buck.
I'm taking the first shot as a 3" shell for free as far as capacity is concerned. I'm not going to make the gun less handy by the addition of a side saddle for extra shells, so capacity is important. My first shot is unique; it is my opportunity to make a decisive action at this point, so I want to make the most of that. If I could somehow get a 3" first shot, I would seriously consider it; especially since it is the equivalent to having fired the gun twice with OO Buck.

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It's a hallway gun. #8 will do the job. Everything else is just bar talk . . .
There is a very, very slim chance that a game bird or turkey is going to break into my home or accost me in such a way as to demand shooting it in self defense. As such, there is no way in hell that I will ever be loading a defensive shotgun with fine shot. Folks that want to take that chance are welcome to, but I'd request that we confine our discussions of shells loaded to buckshot or slugs please.

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I agree with 00 Buck.
I don't think a 50 yard hit with a slug is possible, unless there are 10-12 folks shooting at the same target.
But hey, I was pretty good with a M-79 Grenade Launcher. (Blooper) So just maybe........
Perhaps you need to visit Tarhunt.com. There was at one time a very good discussion about the accuracy and limitations of slugs to be found there. It talked about the major limitation of the slug being the lack of stability at or beyond the transonic point which occurred at 125-150 yards for Foster slugs typically. The 50yard trajectory of a slug is stable out of most smoothbores that have not been "back-bored" to almost boring regularity. The biggest limitations are often a lack of sights and more often an operator who is incapable of finding or maintaining a repeatable hold.
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Old 05-26-2017, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by one eye joe View Post
I CAN'T IMAGINE A SCENARIO--THAT WOULD BE JUDGED IN A COURT AS DEFENSIVE-- WHEREIN A SLUG WOULD BE AN APPROPRIATE LOAD.........
So, using a slug on a bad guy who's inside your house isn't self-defense?

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Originally Posted by forrestinmathews View Post
I'm taking the first shot as a 3" shell for free as far as capacity is concerned.
I don't like having different loads in a self-defense gun. The reason is, if the first shot misses, I probably want the second shot to be the same load. And, I probably want that second shot to be just as powerful/effective as the first under any circumstances.

Then, what if there are two bad guys? Wouldn't you want the same stopping power for the second guy? So, I say, load full up with whatever you decide is the right first round.


The shotgun is a capacity deficient tool. At best you're looking at 8 rounds and most of us have less. Shotguns like the Saiga are not common and quite difficult to wield. The KSG is the best for capacity.

A side saddle really isn't a problem, but I don't like the extra stuff either. In the unlikely event that you might need a slug, I'd go with this shell holder:

It's one way to get that extra round without being too interfering.

Also, one must pick the right gun. Any shotgun will do, but a regular hunting gun with a 28" barrel is difficult to maneuver in the house. If you're doing it correctly, letting the bad guy come to you, length is less of an issue. I like this one for home defense:

Not expensive and holds 8 rounds. The sights are effective, but don't limit your field of view. This is a very reliable gun when properly maintained. I've fired Trap loads to full power (1400FPS) 00 Buck without ever failing to cycle.

So, get the right gun. Load it with all the same loads to reduce confusion. More importantly, have your fist and second lines of defense in place so they don't get in your house in the first place.
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Old 05-26-2017, 12:17 PM
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I bought the shockwave for the fun of having a legal "sawed off" size shotgun and it's nice to have that maneuverable "firearm" in my Mustang GT if I ever do need 00 Buck to get me home.
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Old 05-26-2017, 01:12 PM
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My Shockwave should arrive Tuesday. I'll be practicing with and keeping loaded 00 for the scientific reason that I already got a bunch on hand. Poking around the Net... most of what I read indicates there won't be a significant difference in velocity or pattern compared to my 18in Win Defender.

A tape measure reveals that my Defender with a pistol grip installed would only be about 2 inches longer than the Shockwave. Can someone remind me again why I bought the Shockwave?
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Old 05-26-2017, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
I don't like having different loads in a self-defense gun. The reason is, if the first shot misses, I probably want the second shot to be the same load. And, I probably want that second shot to be just as powerful/effective as the first under any circumstances.
Then, what if there are two bad guys? Wouldn't you want the same stopping power for the second guy? So, I say, load full up with whatever you decide is the right first round.
The shotgun is a capacity deficient tool. At best you're looking at 8 rounds and most of us have less.
A side saddle really isn't a problem, but I don't like the extra stuff either.
I don't honestly see a marked difference between the first shot and second shot in my setup. I just tried something and found I can change that last two shells in the magazine out for 3" and suffer no loss to capacity. That's a lucky discovery indeed. I guess I'm set for several bad guys now...
The trade off of capacity for handling is tangible. I have a side saddle on a shotgun and in this case the balance point is obstructed, the with is doubled, and it defeats the purpose of this platform. The match saver is a great idea for matches. I don't want one to put on a defense gun anymore than I would ghost load a defensive Benelli.
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Old 05-26-2017, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil View Post
My Shockwave should arrive Tuesday. I'll be practicing with and keeping loaded 00 for the scientific reason that I already got a bunch on hand. Poking around the Net... most of what I read indicates there won't be a significant difference in velocity or pattern compared to my 18in Win Defender.

A tape measure reveals that my Defender with a pistol grip installed would only be about 2 inches longer than the Shockwave. Can someone remind me again why I bought the Shockwave?
Because deep down in your mind, you think you're not supposed to have it, so you want it! Right? I've had a Mossberg 500 18" shotgun by my bed for probably 25 years. I eventually took the pistol grip off because "old Arthur" is creeping into my hands, and it's not as much fun on the range as it used to be. I've struggled with this same question for years, but never asked it. I think that within the range that I would be shooting it (if ever used for defense), any of the buckshot loads would settle things down quickly.

I used to have a cartridge sling attached to it full of shells. But the darn thing was so heavy I wised up and removed it, plus it could easily snag on a door knob or something at the wrong time. I have 5 rounds in it, which should be plenty, even if it was birdshot.

Anyone that thinks that's not enough, should take some water filled jugs to the range and unload some #7's on it from 15' and then see if penetrates, or disrupts the jugs evil intentions.
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Old 05-26-2017, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil View Post

A tape measure reveals that my Defender with a pistol grip installed would only be about 2 inches longer than the Shockwave. Can someone remind me again why I bought the Shockwave?
Because the Shockwave is cool and you can.
I'm really enjoying mine.
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Old 05-26-2017, 02:42 PM
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00 buck.

Just because my dad told me so. As my age increases I've come to realize his advice is usually spot on.

Also, guns work because they penetrate. Underpenetration is more of a concern for me than the opposite.

I had a bad dream once where the bad guy was coming at me, I kept shooting him but the hits had no effect...and he kept coming...
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Old 05-26-2017, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by kraynky View Post
Because deep down in your mind, you think you're not supposed to have it, so you want it! Right?

Anyone that thinks that's not enough, should take some water filled jugs to the range and unload some #7's on it from 15' and then see if penetrates, or disrupts the jugs evil intentions.
Of course that's the reason we all wanted one.

It's not that I dispute the effectiveness of your tacticool grouse hunt, I have enough buck shot that I don't have to half measure it to death with 7's. I saw an x-ray in a shooting class once that showed a sternum stopping a load of fine shot and what got by was less than impressive. The individual that was shot survived.
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Old 05-26-2017, 03:41 PM
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OK, I don't know why, but I didn't realize we were talking about a shotgun with no stock.

I love guns, all guns. This is not something I'd use for home defense though.
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Old 05-26-2017, 09:01 PM
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I ordered the Shockwave with the possibility of making it a permanent truck gun and something to have besides a handgun when staying at cabin rentals in the Smokies we frequent. Not sure I'll find a place for it to remain in the truck or not... 26 inches is still pretty good size. Or maybe it'll find itself in the master bedroom at the side of the nightstand. I duknow... maybe not. I'll figure out something for it. How about you guys?
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Old 05-26-2017, 09:09 PM
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I load mine with number 4 buck exclusively.
me too....
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Old 05-26-2017, 09:29 PM
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I just wedge it gently between the passenger seat and center console in my Mustang. Put a old shirt on the bird head grip and it disappears.
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Old 05-26-2017, 10:36 PM
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I ordered the Shockwave with the possibility of making it a permanent truck gun and something to have besides a handgun when staying at cabin rentals in the Smokies we frequent. Not sure I'll find a place for it to remain in the truck or not... 26 inches is still pretty good size. Or maybe it'll find itself in the master bedroom at the side of the nightstand. I duknow... maybe not. I'll figure out something for it. How about you guys?
So I bevelled the loading port on my Shockwave and took all the take up out of the trigger. I applied loctite releasable to the stock screw since there was none and I intend to shoot the hell out of this gun. I used this synthetic two point sling that's rapidly adjustable from pretty taut to loose enough to sling the gun over a shoulder. I've been carrying the gun in the vehicle when I travel, when I walk around my property checking things and I keep it close in the house in the evening. I don't do permanent guns in vehicles overnight. Another explanation avoided. It can be easily covered by a windbreaker or hoodie and still be available. Another favorite is a dark colored towel to cover short long guns. Nobody sees it right there in plain sight. I find it really handy and it's very easily moved in and out of places even in daylight. Currently running​ 3x3" OOB and 3x2" OB because I can and I have 3x2" OB and 3x2" ⅞ oz. slug in the caddy. I feel like it's a decent blend of simple and effective.
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Old 05-26-2017, 11:26 PM
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I ordered the Shockwave with the possibility of making it...
The reasoning is irrelevant in my book. I'm on board with more guns. No reason necessary other than you wanted it.


Now a personal note on the viability of such a tool; it's gonna hurt to shoot it. Buckshot is my preferred self-defense load. To be really effective, it needs to be 1,300FPS or more. I've fired shotguns with just a pistol grip and they're not fun. This doesn't even have that.

To be effective with any self-defense tool, you need to practice with it. I wouldn't practice with this because it will just hurt too much. Call me silly, but I want a shoulder stock on my shotguns.
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Old 05-26-2017, 11:47 PM
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Rastoff have you fired a Shockwave yet?
I have and it isn't like my Mossberg 500 pistol gripped Cruiser was before I installed a M-4 style telescoping butt stock on it.
With the bird's head grip the recoil is not bad at all with 2 3/4' 00 buck shot.
Try it I think you'll like it.
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Old 05-27-2017, 12:15 AM
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The reasoning is irrelevant in my book. I'm on board with more guns. No reason necessary other than you wanted it.


Now a personal note on the viability of such a tool; it's gonna hurt to shoot it. Buckshot is my preferred self-defense load. To be really effective, it needs to be 1,300FPS or more. I've fired shotguns with just a pistol grip and they're not fun. This doesn't even have that.

To be effective with any self-defense tool, you need to practice with it. I wouldn't practice with this because it will just hurt too much. Call me silly, but I want a shoulder stock on my shotguns.
So I guess I'm hard headed, but this thing is fun to play with and shoot. I'm making time to shoot this because​ it's so much fun. It's a bit of a ride with buckshot, but it's devastating. With electronic muffs it's very feasible to shoot almost anytime. I have the option to shoot on my property day or night so I practice. The biggest thing I have learned, is how big the pattern ISN'T. Folks are talking about Federal Flitecontrol wads holding an eight inch pattern at 35 yards and I'm thinking, how about 8" at 8 yds? Or maybe 4"? A rifled choke tube would be nice in some cases.
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Old 05-27-2017, 05:15 AM
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Shoots a variety of birdshot, buckshot and slugs.

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Old 05-27-2017, 07:29 AM
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This is an excellent video (like all of his). It amazed me the regularity with which he can hit the 80 yard gong with slugs and that gun. Even silhouette targets too.
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Old 05-27-2017, 07:36 AM
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Why would you put different type of ammo? What purpose does that serve?

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Old 05-27-2017, 08:29 AM
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Why would you put different type of ammo? What purpose does that serve?

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So Jim Cirillo killed a lot of people in gunfights as a member of the NYPD Stakeout Squad and learned a lot doing it. They had 13" Ithaca 37's loaded up with 2 slugs and 3 OO Buck by night with the theory that they could engage point targets inside and then keep the shot for outside in the darkness. By day the three buckshot came first and the slugs last figuring that the inside would be less crowded and the streets would require a higher level of precise shooting. I got most of this from page 32 of Jim Cirillo's Tales of the Stakeout Squad.

There's my best attempt at making a reasonable case for various setups. The best answer is because you can.
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Old 05-27-2017, 09:09 AM
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So Jim Cirillo killed a lot of people in gunfights as a member of the NYPD Stakeout Squad and learned a lot doing it. They had 13" Ithaca 37's loaded up with 2 slugs and 3 OO Buck by night with the theory that they could engage point targets inside and then keep the shot for outside in the darkness. By day the three buckshot came first and the slugs last figuring that the inside would be less crowded and the streets would require a higher level of precise shooting. I got most of this from page 32 of Jim Cirillo's Tales of the Stakeout Squad.

There's my best attempt at making a reasonable case for various setups. The best answer is because you can.
That's great but it doesn't translate to us, or at least me. Im not patrolling and if I shoot outside my house it better be because the 2nd Panzer division just rolled up.

But even in Jim's case. What happened if he used his slugs inside? Or whichever opposite way?! This is why rifles are better

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Old 05-27-2017, 10:20 AM
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Shoots a variety of birdshot, buckshot and slugs.
Does anyone continue to seriously question the value of low brass target loads at close range after watching that video?
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Old 05-27-2017, 10:33 AM
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That's great but it doesn't translate to us, or at least me. Im not patrolling and if I shoot outside my house it better be because the 2nd Panzer division just rolled up.

But even in Jim's case. What happened if he used his slugs inside? Or whichever opposite way?! This is why rifles are better

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Where I live there's a big please hold while your call is directed...when you dial 911, so I am on sort of a different program than the normal individual. 20-30 minute response time if something comes up serious and the deputies are misaligned.

Rifle this and rifle that. I have one with a 100 round magazine standing by in case Billy Badass and his Panzers roll up. Shotguns introduce people to Jesus.

When Jim used his slugs inside people died. It's a shotgun at close range, did you think they got free tickets to Disneyland?
If you want to debate the virtues of which is better at close range between the shotgun or the rifle, I'll take a load of OO Buck over an AR at close range everytime. The basic wound channel is larger. I don't need the projectiles to do anything special. The energy transfer is more effective. It doesn't blow my ears inside out. Per function of the weapon, the damage unleashed is greater. I might only need to fire three times to incapacitate three threats with a shotgun. I need to fire nine times with the AR. Tell me, which has a greater likelihood of jamming? The one fired three times, or the one fired nine? You know what rifle bullets do at close range? Disintegrate. I have had Core Lokt bullets fired out of a .308 at ten yards come unlocked and leave the jackets hung in the far side flesh completely lead free. Can't​ remember being let down like that by my shotgun. It's a highly effective platform when used within its effective range.
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Old 05-27-2017, 10:40 AM
Arik Arik is offline
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What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun?  
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Where I live there's a big please hold while your call is directed...when you dial 911, so I am on sort of a different program than the normal individual. 20-30 minute response time if something comes up serious and the deputies are misaligned.

Rifle this and rifle that. I have one with a 100 round magazine standing by in case Billy Badass and his Panzers roll up. Shotguns introduce people to Jesus.

When Jim used his slugs inside people died. It's a shotgun at close range, did you think they got free tickets to Disneyland?
If you want to debate the virtues of which is better at close range between the shotgun or the rifle, I'll take a load of OO Buck over an AR at close range everytime. The basic wound channel is larger. I don't need the projectiles to do anything special. The energy transfer is more effective. It doesn't blow my ears inside out. Per function of the weapon, the damage unleashed is greater. I might only need to fire three times to incapacitate three threats with a shotgun. I need to fire nine times with the AR. Tell me, which has a greater likelihood of jamming? The one fired three times, or the one fired nine? You know what rifle bullets do at close range? Disintegrate. I have had Core Lokt bullets fired out of a .308 at ten yards come unlocked and leave the jackets hung in the far side flesh completely lead free. Can't​ remember being let down like that by my shotgun. It's a highly effective platform when used within its effective range.
I know they died. My point was the slugs are used and now you need to take a longer​ shot, maybe outdoors but all that's left is buck shot. In other words the ammo you wanted for A is gone​ and all you have is B.

Rifles are equally devastating outdoor and indoor. More accurate, more ammo and more energy

Hard to say. My ARs have yet to jam. But probably likely hood is about the same

Don't know about Cor Lokt I use Mil/LE ammo for SD. Good, consistent ammo, nothing comes apart. Gold Dots, Federal overruns

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

Last edited by Arik; 05-27-2017 at 10:45 AM.
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Old 05-27-2017, 10:59 AM
forrestinmathews forrestinmathews is offline
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What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun?  
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Does anyone continue to seriously question the value of low brass target loads at close range after watching that video?
I'm firmly convinced that it can get me a rabbit for the pot or a squirrel. Maybe even a couple of doves. It's hell on soda cans a cookie pans. I am not impressed with it as a defensive load. Buckshot comes in cheap 25 round boxes at Walmart. I take some duct tape and reinforce the bottom of the box and away I go. I carry a box of 25 buck shot, a box of 25 low brass #6's, and a box of 15 slugs in the vehicle. I am prepared for subsistence survival to defense from predators.

I just remembered a story about why I don't (and maybe you shouldn't) use fine shot on serious things. So there was this raccoon ambling about during daylight hours a few years ago. Something was amiss and I decided to take him out. Not wanting to waste my precious magnum buckshot because he wasn't​ too big I loaded a #6. Whowee was he super pissed off when I shot him with that #6. He snarled and started to turn towards me right about the time the 3" magnum buckshot slammed home in the chamber. I immediately touched it off and sent him rolling three feet further away and he was dead when he stopped. So that's where I think back to whenever​ I get the urge to go easy on the problem pops in.
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Old 05-27-2017, 11:37 AM
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What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun? What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun?  
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Based on my limited testing, I vote: None of the above.
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