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Old 05-29-2017, 01:15 PM
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Default IDPA event or Force on force training?

You have a free Saturday, and discover that there is an IDPA event happening nearby. Also, there is a Force on Force training going on. You can participate in either....but not both.

Which do you pick, and why?
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Old 05-29-2017, 01:23 PM
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Having done both when younger, I can say without hesitation that I only do IDPA matches now because I am too old and crippled. Anyone who has the desire for top-grade force on force training and exercises is welcome to contact my friend Roger Brown at USSA, who will happily mop up the floor with you.
Just so there is no misunderstanding, IDPA and force on force are ENTIRELY different activities, IDPA being a shooting game practicing gun handling and shooting under some simulated stress, which is suitable for young and old of all skill levels and physical capability.


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Old 05-29-2017, 04:00 PM
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Kinda depends on what you want to achieve or assess.

If you want an enjoyable day at the range for some live-fire fun, using your gear, go with the IDPA event.

If you think there's something you need to have assessed regarding your close quarters skillset, awareness and decision-making, and you're in good physical condition - and the FoF is being done by a reputable and experienced instructor(s) and company - go for the FoF session.

Personally, I'm of an age (hitting mid 60's) where I've already had the opportunities to have the "what are you gonna do?" questions answered to my satisfaction, regarding both martial arts and shooting/tactics/fighting skills, and I'm content to just keep working on trying to fight off the ravages of aging.

I'm not someone who enjoys competition for the sheer enjoyment of competition, but if faced with having to choose between only those two options, I'd go for the IDPA afternoon.

So, what do you think you want to do, for whatever reasons make the most sense to you?

Which one will mean you have to clean a gun at the end of the day? (The armorer in me means gun cleaning stopped being a relaxing diversion many years ago, and became just another chore - which is what happens when you've had to clean so many guns neglected or abused by innumerable other people.)

Which is closer and costs less, and will leave you in a sufficiently mellow, relaxed condition to enjoy an adult beverage at the end of the day?
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Old 05-29-2017, 04:25 PM
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I would go with the force-on-force training, assuming it's a good quality program.

As far as guns and shooting go, my main interest is personal security/self defense, and I've never had the opportunity to do force-on-force training before, though I have attended some stress-inducing training courses. I've also never competed in IDPA, though I did compete in a speed shooting competition once (I came in first place...of the bottom half... ). I may not be in the best of shape, but for my needs/wants I think I would get more out of the force-on-force training event.
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Old 05-29-2017, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by OKFC05 View Post
Having done both when younger, I can say without hesitation that I only do IDPA matches now because I am too old and crippled. Anyone who has the desire for top-grade force on force training and exercises is welcome to contact my friend Roger Brown at USSA, who will happily mop up the floor with you.
Just so there is no misunderstanding, IDPA and force on force are ENTIRELY different activities, IDPA being a shooting game practicing gun handling and shooting under some simulated stress, which is suitable for young and old of all skill levels and physical capability.


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Old 05-29-2017, 05:10 PM
forrestinmathews forrestinmathews is offline
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I pick the Force on Force and go with that out of curiosity. I'd bet that there are just as many Tacticool Timmies at each place. You get a chance to see a more dynamic situation at the force on force. Idpa is not giving you much training in the way of tactics or marksmanship.
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Old 05-29-2017, 05:50 PM
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I pick the Force on Force and go with that out of curiosity. I'd bet that there are just as many Tacticool Timmies at each place. You get a chance to see a more dynamic situation at the force on force. Idpa is not giving you much training in the way of tactics or marksmanship.
Hmmm. you can learn tactics and marksmanship at an IDPA match. Hit the bad guy in the "zero points down" center mass. Shoot from cover and practice reloading your weapon.

But I agree with the poster above who said it depends on your goals regarding which event to attend.
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Old 05-29-2017, 09:39 PM
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Unless you are going to repeat force on force training until you develop it as a second nature, you should go with IDPA, which develops gunfighting skills without the stress of force on force.

Stress driven training is just stressful, and you are not a LEO who can encounter such situations on the job so why bother. Any encounter we civilians are likely to encounter will require good shooting skills more than learning to deal with combat stress.

During my four tours in Nam I learned that even with all the training we got we never got accustomed to the stress of close in combat. We had an expression for new guys: Eat the stress." By that we meant concentrate on the enemy fighter and kill him before he kills you. Good shooting skills was the best asset in that regard. In that kind of situation the adrenaline kicks in, and the stress is absorbed (eaten) and replaced by heightened awareness and senses. Those two things keep you alive.
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Old 05-29-2017, 09:55 PM
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@ProtectedOne,

For me, sixty is on the near horizon, and my body is a wreck after my accident. I have one good arm and I can't run to save my life, so any aspect of hand to hand training would be wasted. Personally, I think that I would benefit from an IDPA match more, especially if I treated the match as an FTX and did an after action type analysis of the shooting, forgetting scores.
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Old 05-29-2017, 10:31 PM
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@ProtectedOne,

For me, sixty is on the near horizon, and my body is a wreck after my accident. I have one good arm and I can't run to save my life, so any aspect of hand to hand training would be wasted. Personally, I think that I would benefit from an IDPA match more, especially if I treated the match as an FTX and did an after action type analysis of the shooting, forgetting scores.
Smart thinking! Especially the after action analysis. After I made E5 in the Corps I got to participate in forming after action reports. It was enlightening.
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Old 05-30-2017, 06:46 PM
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The point is to learn, not have some guy show how much better he is than you!

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Absolutely. The same applies to the students.
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Old 05-30-2017, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Protected One View Post
You have a free Saturday, and discover that there is an IDPA event happening nearby. Also, there is a Force on Force training going on. You can participate in either....but not both.

Which do you pick, and why?
I think I would go to IHOP. My double stack training is in need of a refresher course.
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Old 05-30-2017, 07:09 PM
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Absolutely. The same applies to the students.
That does apply to students. I don't want an instructor who only wants to make himself look good by "wiping the floor with me"! After that he can go run the 100 meter dash against a 4 year old and really feel superior

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Old 05-31-2017, 12:32 AM
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I would pick Force-on-Force.

Around here IDPA can be done any weekend if you travel a little. Force-on-Force is rare so, that's the one I'd do.
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Old 05-31-2017, 10:10 AM
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I would pick Force-on-Force.

Around here IDPA can be done any weekend if you travel a little. Force-on-Force is rare so, that's the one I'd do.
Interesting how different things can be from state to state or region to region. Here in Michigan, I can find a Force-on-Force class easier than an IDPA event. There are at least two qualified professionals running FOF training, such that a class takes place at least every other month within an hour of me. I had to drive 2 hours last year to get to the IDPA State Championship Event.

I too would select the FOF, but for a different reason than you listed. My whole purpose in training, as it relates to firearms, is to be as prepared as I can for any realistic self-defense situation I might be unfortunate enough to find myself in. In that situation, as in FOF, I am unlikely to know the nature of the threat, number of assailants, or their locations ahead of time. And they will be real people - not paper....and potentially shooting back! Exposure to as many different scenarios as possible, of this nature, would seem to serve my needs best.

While I see nothing wrong with IDPA, my static training is conducted under the watchful eye of an instructor at a reputable training facility, so that errors can be pointed out and corrected.
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Old 05-31-2017, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by OKFC05 View Post
Having done both when younger, I can say without hesitation that I only do IDPA matches now because I am too old and crippled. Anyone who has the desire for top-grade force on force training and exercises is welcome to contact my friend Roger Brown at USSA, who will happily mop up the floor with you.
Just so there is no misunderstanding, IDPA and force on force are ENTIRELY different activities, IDPA being a shooting game practicing gun handling and shooting under some simulated stress, which is suitable for young and old of all skill levels and physical capability.
A lot defends on what type of FOF is being referenced. The scenario-based shooting focused ones usually tend to be pretty mild and just about anyone can safely participate whereas the ECQ varieties or any that integrate combatives are usually fairly physically grueling.
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